Author Topic: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi  (Read 26927 times)

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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #175 on: December 22, 2017, 04:40:48 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08fHeAWWiU

Usually I don't post reviews, but this one made me  :angry:

Offline Podaar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #176 on: December 22, 2017, 05:42:51 AM »
I'm not putting spoiler warnings because if you're in here not expecting spoilers, you deserve to be spoiled; that said I won't be saying anything totally abrupt and obvious. Saw it, I enjoyed it. I'm not into SW much, and thus this is through the eyes of someone that quite literally saw it because it was a good date night and there was nothing else out that looked remotely up my ally. So pretty much like every other SW movie I've seen.

So things that stood out to me as someone viewing the series as such, the EXTREMELY Marvel-esque comedy routine jumped right out at me, some in a great way, but most in a "eh, reaching" way. Nothing that was as cringe inducing as many describe but noticeable nonetheless. Also very surprised they killed off two very (one seemingly, one obviously) important characters in a fairly quick fashion (maybe?). It was awesome seeing the OG shorty master and I thought the way they portrayed him was really perfect; the scene was really touching and introspective (par the course for his scenes) and it was to the point and didn't have too much fan service.

Overall I thought it was really fun. Definitely had some of the greatest sci/fi aerial battle scenes I've ever seen, that initial dreadnaught scene with Poe was just awesome and really set the tone for the action. It's really funny seeing so many people rage like temperamental teens over this though (hardly read the thread at all so I'm not talking about anyone here), and makes me think about series that I care about just as much that I may overreact to or may be jaded and blind to towards certain aspects. Because it's very obvious some people had and held expectations that were never going to be met. That's clear with most hardcore fans of anything, but it truly seems like SW fans just take that shit and get as serious as a fucking heroine addiction with it. And meth. And cocaine. And alcohol. And skooma. Fucking psychos, some of you bastards.  :lol :-*

(Seriously though, I've felt the same, it's just funny being on the outside for once; that doesn't happen all that often with me)

Ed: Going through some previous comments. If I had any thoughts on Luke, it'd probably be what Bosk has said. I can see why fans would be confused/angry over his extreme turn in the movie. I can also see how they are abso-fucking-lutely letting their own fantasy of what the character "should" be to them get in the way of what was actually shown in the movies. When you like something so much that it becomes more than just a "whatever" (game/movie/book/song), you fantasize about it and in a way make it your own, tailor it to your own self. Which can be great, but it can also lose what is actually there somewhere along the line. A whole hell of a lot of people had theories that were pulled straight from the very depths of people's asses.

Speaking as someone who has seen the movies a few times and other than playing KOTOR, has no other SW knowledge, I thought the turn was surprising but also could be followed very logically and realistic. The whole problem with it is that we have no info other than the extremely short bursts of backstory we get in the movie itself. There was no easing and transition. Last we saw Luke, he was the shining poster boy for all things Light. Then we're thrown into the current film and he is a totally different character. That'd be jarring for any character and with that much of a time skip. No one in the world, however big a fan, can really say jack about any character change when there is that much of a gap in time and that little info about said change. With what he said in the movie and what crumbs they gave us, it all fits together about as nicely as it can considering that. What's funny is that so many of the people protesting such change always refer back to fantasy scenarios with what Luke "should've" been or what Luke "would've" done, yadda yadda. Again, idealistic thoughts for what they want the character to be. There's really nothing to cite other than...well, the originals, and who the hell can accurately compare a young adult to an old man and with the info of what amounts to a few fleeting moments say "yes, I understand how he became who he is today". Nobody.

Ed ed: Wow I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Well the movie got me to speak more about SW than I ever have before soooo...  :tup :tup :lol

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #177 on: December 22, 2017, 07:48:34 AM »
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #178 on: December 22, 2017, 08:15:44 AM »
1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week?

Whilst TLJ essentially picks up straight where TFA left off, the amount of time Rey actually spends on the island with Luke is unspecified movie time and we don't know when the opening of the film is in relation to Rey's time on the island... they don't put captions up on the screen in Star Wars films saying things like "Three months earlier", so we have to take an (un)educated guess.

Is there an 'agreed upon' estimate of how much time has passed? Finn is just waking up from his wound/hospital stay.....Ren's wounds are healed/near healed....tough to say how many days Rey has been on the island....3 or 4? Maybe a week has gone by?

Anyway. I'd have to watch the scene when he gets shot again and compare it to the shirtless scene to see if the impact point should actually be visible.

Having just watched it....it looks to me that it was his left/lower rib cage....with a mix of maybe a glancing blow or just right on his side. 
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #179 on: December 22, 2017, 08:16:28 AM »
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.

totally that.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #180 on: December 22, 2017, 08:34:28 AM »
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #181 on: December 22, 2017, 08:57:56 AM »
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P

I'd say, for me personally, about 80% or so missed completely. I can't think of too many that took me out of the movie, but there were a few.



Also I really like the director's ideas and intentions, I'm just not sold on the execution for all of it. A good idea isn't a good execution.
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Offline TioJorge

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #182 on: December 22, 2017, 10:43:02 AM »
Big post is big.

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol

 :P Thanks! To my credit that's a lot less vulgar than my posts a year or two ago.  :angel: I had a whole lot of coffee yesterday evening. Oops!

I'll echo the statements made about the director's comments, he's been fairly neutral and even keeled about the whole thing and you gotta respect that when there's a whole lot of people doing the exact opposite and basically grabbing pitchforks en masse. It really seems to me that the vast majority of the people who abhorrently defy the film are those that could be considered big fans. That's obviously not always the case (especially here), but I think it does speak volumes about hype and expectations in general (also fan theories).

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Offline masterthes

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #183 on: December 22, 2017, 10:51:04 AM »
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #184 on: December 22, 2017, 11:05:38 AM »
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 
Not that we know of.  My initial reaction to a theory like that is that it would seem too out of nowhere and, thus, contrived.  But who knows?  I suppose it could be done in a way that is convincing enough. 

As far as Kylo Ren knowing, if he is indeed telling the truth, I'm sure there are plausible ways he could have found out, especially with his powers. 
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #185 on: December 22, 2017, 11:37:45 AM »
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.

In regards to the outrage from fans, I'm not sure really where that's coming from. I'd say 90% of the people I know who are star wars fans loved it.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #186 on: December 22, 2017, 11:40:59 AM »
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

My problem with his comments is the timing. Why throw fuel on the fire? I can't imagine Disney was happy with that.  Based on the other cannon, specifically Rebels and The Clone Wars, I think it's very realistic for a jedi to do what Luke did. I never thought that Luke gave up. I viewed it more that he was sacrificing himself via seclusion to protect others whom he loved. There are lots of examples of Jedi losing confidence and needing a shove in the right direction which is why Yoda showed up.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #187 on: December 22, 2017, 01:12:33 PM »
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #188 on: December 22, 2017, 01:49:44 PM »
This is more of a half-baked observation than anything else, but I feel like backlashes are becoming the norm, at least with regards to huge franchises. I first saw it happen with the Mass Effect series a few years back when people didn't like the ending. It started happening with Game of Thrones this year when people felt the writing dropped off. It happened with the DC Universe. Now it's happening with Star Wars.

We can debate all day about why these backlashes are happening and whether they're justified. I just feel like they're becoming more and more common, for whatever reason, you know?
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Offline TioJorge

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #189 on: December 22, 2017, 01:56:55 PM »
Eh, I mean all of those series you mentioned have huge legions of zealots as well, I'd say that's the main factor and no coincidence.  :lol

I get what you're saying though, but I feel like that kind of culture is just apart of the internet and I feel like it's been around pretty much as long as millions of people have had a voice has.

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #190 on: December 22, 2017, 02:09:29 PM »
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.

Sure he could.  She could very easily have suppressed memories from childhood - especially traumatic ones.  Or, he maybe he's bullshitting her.  Either way, this story point was not one of the (many) problems/annoyances with the movie.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #191 on: December 22, 2017, 02:14:02 PM »
Xanadu, I think you're right. But I also think that huge corporations lazily making products that will simply sell and then be immediately forgotten as become a big thing. Not saying that's what TLJ is, but many big movies nowadays feel like that.

TLJ isn't the worst thing ever. It doesn't need to have petitions saying it should be written out of canon. I thought the characters were amazing, and it had some of the greatest star wars moments ever. Over all it just had too many issues for me to say it was great. That's just my opinion though. I don't think it ruined anything of is some sort of scar on the star wars universe like some people are making it out to be.

At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|


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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #192 on: December 22, 2017, 02:45:25 PM »
Finally saw TLJ and loved just about everything about it. Going to let it marinate for a few days before attempting to rank.

I do think Snoke is still alive and that Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #193 on: December 22, 2017, 02:46:44 PM »
Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.

That's an interesting theory I hadn't thought of.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #194 on: December 22, 2017, 02:53:28 PM »
At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|

Trying to please the entire Star Wars fanbase, is pretty much a no win situation at this point.

I have lost count at the amount of rage filled meltdown videos, i've encountered on youtube this past week regarding TLJ.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 04:01:03 PM by Polarbear »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #195 on: December 22, 2017, 03:52:15 PM »
Probably better for the humour thread, but whatever.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #196 on: December 23, 2017, 01:29:11 AM »
For those boring people (like me) who follow box office numbers - TLJ is currently well down on where the Force Awakens was after a week, but up on Rogue One.  If that trend continues its heading for around 1,5 billion worldwide.    if the backlash is genuine then it could end up lower, and it misses out on the all important repeat viewing, this second weekend drop off will tell us more.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 01:49:48 AM by soupytwist »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #197 on: December 23, 2017, 06:57:37 AM »
So, did every single person on the casino planet get rich from selling weapons or was that just an overassumption from Rose?

This is her quote:

"Who do you think these people are, there's only one business that will get you this rich, selling weapons to the first order"

I thought only Sith deal in absolutes?  ;)

Rose gets super judgmental and high and mighty, yet the rebellion has done some nasty, guerrilla warfare shady shit to survive over the years. They aren't squeaky clean and free of criticism, and those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

And I was shocked that the first order's sensors didn't pick up on Finn and rose flying away from the fleet on their way to the casino planet. In ANH, the empire was ready to blow up a tiny escape pod seconds after it launched. A way they could have given Phasma more to do would have been to have her track the ship to the casino planet and unravel or antagonize Finn/roses plans. 

And also, Ren and his 3 back up tie fighters were now out of range of the First order's cover fire, so they were called back. Well, they have hundreds if not thousands of tie fighters (and disposable pilots) that they could just launch and decimate the last remaining pieces of the resistance. Like a chess game, sacrificing pawns could have gotten them the checkmate. But instead we got the slow speed pursuit.

And are we really to believe that in all that time on the island, Rey never once asks "hey, who's this Snoke guy", seriously?  Knowing nothing about this villain or his motivations makes him flat and one-dimensional. And I was actually really getting into his character. Just one single scene with a couple mins of luke saying "here's the deal with snoke" or even him at the the least acknowledging like "rey, I don't know where this evil presence came from, but I do know that he has immense power and is not to be underestimated" throw me a bone

And why does luke/anakin's lightsaber "call to" some random junk orphan girl. Since when do inanimate objects call to people? I found that strange while watching TFA but was like "well, its got all this history and heavy emotions surrounding it from it's skywalker users, so maybe it would react a little to a skywalker". That stretch I was willing to accept, but not to some random junk girl who is nobody and came from nothing and is just some nobody. And if she was a skywalker, then I could kind of buy her inate abilities, but being nobody who came from nothing special, for her to be a master fighter, master pilot, master engineer, master jedi and defeater of a trained, experienced heir of Vader for god's sake is bullshit. I dismissed her being a mary sue in TFA since I thought there would be some justification, but now as far as I'm concerned is 100% Mary sue and a very boring character for that. Ultimately, I would be totally cool with her coming from nothing, but there should be a struggle and effort for her success and ability. For it to come without earning or working for anything makes for a boing character that I can't invest in.

And the impression I got from TFA is that Luke went to the island to gain some knowledge, recover and rise from the ashes stronger than before so that he could face his unfinished business of Ren and Snoke. Not someone who just gave up. TLJ luke thinks the best thing to do is let the Jedi end, but by doing so he's willingly letting the Dark side rise. I just can't get behind that. And if you absolutely don't want to be found and absolutely want to just give up, then why provide a map of how to get to you. I took away from TFA that he was like "I'm going away so I can get my shit together. If shit really hits the fan before I am back, then here's a way for you to get to me, and then we will figure out a plan from there".   TFA and TLJ just feel so wildly different and unconnected.

The score is weak as well. Nothing really memorable, with the exception of the re-used themes from previous films. And in all honesty I don't put the fault with john williams. The dude's 85 for god's sake and he's delivered more than enough excellent material throughout his career. So it is what it is.

The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:54:20 PM by Phoenix87x »
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #198 on: December 23, 2017, 07:26:44 AM »
I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #199 on: December 23, 2017, 09:12:59 AM »
*snip*
The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...

:clap:

And I agree with you 100% again.

I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.

Not just ANY second hand ship, one that did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.
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Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #200 on: December 23, 2017, 10:54:40 AM »
Just back from a second viewing, and fair play, it was a bit better the second time around. Some parts were still as bad - that floating Leia scenes is one of the stupidest things Iíve ever seen - but most bits that annoyed me last time were less grating this time. Some things about Luke still bug me, but there is more to like than there is to dislike.

Even the humour, even though I still found it misplaced at times, I have to grudgingly admit that itís the humour of this generation, not mine.

So do I like it better than TFA? Itís close, but I think TLJ may just sit ahead of it, but still behind Rogue One for me. I think my original 6/10 rating may go up a point, but will let it settle some more before deciding.

One thing Iíd say though is that itís too long. 10 or 15 mins less would have felt like a more comfortable length.

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #201 on: December 23, 2017, 03:41:37 PM »
Alright. Just saw it for the second time. My opinion right now is that itís an enjoyable movie with great moments. I must admit that I probably overhyped myself on this one. I got myself thinking it would be the second coming, but there ainít no problem with a merely ďfunĒ Star Wars flick.

My current rankings:

Tier I: Empire, ANH, TFA
Tier II: Return, Last
Tier III: Rogue, Sith
Tier IV: Menace, Clones

« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 01:29:26 PM by TheOutlawXanadu »
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #202 on: December 23, 2017, 05:11:42 PM »
1. Empire
2. Rogue 1
3. TFA
4. RotS
5. RotJ
6. ANH
7. PM
8. Clones
9. TLJ
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 06:44:20 PM by Phoenix87x »
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #203 on: December 23, 2017, 06:02:38 PM »
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. The Phantom Menace
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Attack of the Clones
8. A New Hope


Will include The Last Jedi after its had time to settle....but I see it landing somewhere in the middle.

Offline noxon

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #204 on: December 23, 2017, 06:04:12 PM »
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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #205 on: December 24, 2017, 04:54:19 AM »
1. Empire
2. Force Awakens
3. Last Jedi
4. Return
5. New Hope
--
--
6. Rogue One
7. Phantom Menace
8. Clones
9. Revenge

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #206 on: December 24, 2017, 07:28:03 AM »
I think that TLJ did suffer from not having the 3 plus years of development that the other films had. Disney's zeal for having something Star Wars to sell every December may have hurt this one a bit. However can't blame Disney for cashing in if the consumer is willing to pay.

Offline fadetoblackdude7

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #207 on: December 24, 2017, 11:57:31 AM »
I saw the film only once so far, and while I thought it was good, I was disappointed. Same things that most people were criticizing:

- Killing Snoke without giving his background was the biggest problem for me, given that he was so mysterious in TFA
- Little to no character development
- Bad humor just for the sake of it
- Luke's entire role in this movie - something just seemed off to me
- Leia's Superman moment - what was RJ thinking??

I gotta see the movie again, hopefully my opinion changes but right now, I rank this one towards the bottom

Offline orcus116

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #208 on: December 24, 2017, 02:17:46 PM »
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
« Reply #209 on: December 24, 2017, 02:23:12 PM »
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.

Yea, I keep seeing Snoke being pointless and Rey's parents being a misdirect as a bad thing. I'm fine with her parent's being nobodies. Snoke....eh. I think that was JJ's fault for trying to make it all mysterious and out of sync with everything else we know about that universe.

Dude seems VERY powerful, and very old. Yet NO ONE had any idea who he was before this? No one sensed a major Sith player? But in the end, you're right. He was never important.
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