Richard Chycki says he's currently mixing a DT live album **DO NOT POST LINKS**

[Fritzinger]

So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?

Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.

[ToT-147]

So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?

Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.

Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...

[lucasembarbosa]

So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?

Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.

Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...

Both were released after DT12.

[ToT-147]

So DT just updated their Facebook title picture to a live foto from the last tour. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (probably) but do you guys think this could mean they're working on a live release after all?

Don't think so. They're in full new album gears right now.

Just like in 2013 and they still released LaLP and Happy Holidays.. But, yeah, who knows...

Both were released after DT12.

Exactly..

[devieira73]

I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.

[Samsara]

I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.

I was thinking the same thing...

[Cool Chris]

That.... might actually compel me to buy a "deluxe edition," something I never do.

Wait, I bought the deluxe edition of Systematic Chaos. That DVD was pretty neat and definitely worth it.

[YtseJamittaja]

I think this would be a great business idea. They have it mixed already so only thing they might do is push James do a little vocal overdubs here and there and it's off to go. Let's say 19 dollars for that special edition with live album and 14 dollars for just the new album.

[nikatapi]

I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.

I would be ok with this.
Also, a video/documentary of the creative process would also be great, we had some videos for DT12 but they were very promotional and not really interesting. Something like the SC documentary would be fantastic.

[|KirK|]

Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?!  Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...

[SwedishGoose]

Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?!  Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...

No..... I would kill for that.... even a BR with live audio synced with the screens if no live video was recorded

[MirrorMask]

As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.

[Setlist Scotty]

As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.

While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.

[Bertielee]

A live version of TA, a documentary, JP doing pole dance….I just want DT14!

[Another_Won]

Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?!  Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...

No..... I would kill for that.... even a BR with live audio synced with the screens if no live video was recorded

Agreed, though I doubt anything TA related would come with DT14, even in a deluxe edition.

[mikeyd23]

I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.

I was thinking the same thing...

I could get behind that.

[cramx3]

I have a hunch that this show will be released in the deluxe edition of DT14.

I was thinking the same thing...

I could get behind that.

That's one way to get me to buy the deluxe edition

[Peter Mc]

If it was going to be released as part of a package, it would make more sense to me to release it as part of an Images & Words re-release.

[RaiseTheKnife]

As for a deluxe edition, I'd like more actual studio work and "new" / different stuff. A song that is not on the album. Acoustic versions of new or older songs. A complete diverse arrangement for a song. Stuff like the piano version of Wither. A couple of covers. Anything like that.

While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.

Agree that would be cool, and maybe there's hope in one form or another.  The Astonishing novel did include a release of alternate versions of Gift of Music and a couple unrealized ideas in demo form.

Of course, for alternate arrangements of the DT catalog, there's always Jordan's Notes on a Dream which features some nice interpretations.

[PetFish]

While having a making of DVD/BR and/or a DVD/BR from the Budokan show would be nice, I would prefer and am hoping for what MM mentions. It's been a long time since they've had non-album tracks, so it would be nice to have a mix of those along with some alternate versions of new and old songs - maybe a few acoustic, but other arrangements too. Not that it will happen, but that would be my first choice.

Me too.  "Making of" stuff is nice but how often do we really sit down and watch them?  A few times when we first get it cuz we're excited and then probably rarely afterwards.

Alternate songs, however, can be put onto a mixtape and listened to any time so yes please.

[Cool Chris]

As true as your first statement is for me, I am the complete opposite on the second. I never think or care to listen to alternate versions.

[TAC]

Alternate versions, to me, are called live versions. I mean there's the song, and that's it. 

[Samsara]

I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.

Recent exceptions are Fates Warning. On Darkness in a Different Light, the extended version of Firefly is the one I much prefer. Ray told me that the extended piece was leftover from a different song, and re-worked into something for Firefly. If memory serves, he also liked the extended version.

On the same album, there is a song called Falling, which is a very short interlude acoustic/vocal piece. The original version of that song, which is included on a bonus disc as "Falling Further" is the full-on electric version, which is a normal song length, with a great solo (co-written by Aresti and Matheos). I really enjoy that more than the acoustic interlude.

But those exceptions aside, there are very few instances that I think alternate versions are needed. There's the song, then there's the live version of said song. And once in awhile, a translation to acoustic is cool. But I don't need multiple takes, v. 1, v. 2, v.3 with a whole bunch of different elements. I mean, they are cool to have, but I won't listen often.

Example - the sax version demo of "The Thin Line" by Queensryche. Very different, kinda cool. I've had that track probably since 1994 or 1995, and in 23 or 24 years, have probably listened to it less than 10 times. Just no real desire to.

[rab7]

I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.

What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)

[Samsara]

I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.

What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)

Don't really have an opinion. I mean, the album version is the one in my head, that I've listened to tons of times. I have the demos, and I've listened a handful of times, but never really reach to listen to them as alternative versions (cool to have, and to pop on once in a blue moon). And I haven't listened to Live in Budokan since the four or five times I listened to it over the year it first came out. I just don't go back to it much.

So in general, I think whatever version the band prefers should always be on the album proper. Because if it isn't, chances are, I'm not going to listen to it a lot.

In that Fates Warning example, with today's technology, I spliced in the extended version of Firefly and the full version of Falling, and deleted the ones on the album sequence on my iTunes. But you can't quite do that with demo-quality or live-quality material and have a consistent listening experience (maybe it wouldn't bother some folks, but it would with me).

[Orbert]

This all seems surprising to me.  I like hearing different versions of songs.  I like hearing different things that the guys tried along the way to what they considered the finished product, the final version.  To me, it offers a glimpse into the creative process.

Live versions can also be interesting, especially with bands that tend to do things differently a lot.  Nowadays, everything's on a click-track so the idea is to not allow for things to be different, but in the old days, certain parts (especially solos) were left open to interpretation and letting the soloist live in the moment.  The Grateful Dead, Phish, early Chicago, and of course King Crimson, all had open-ended sections.

But that's a different animal.  I don't listen to alternate studio versions a lot, but I do check them out if/when I can find them, because I think they're interesting.  I wish more bands loosened up and included them.

[Chino]

I'm not big on alternate versions. In rare cases, I think they are better, but for the most part, I am not a fan.

What do you think of the 3 versions of Hollow Years? (Album, demo, Live at Budokan)

LAB version is in the top three live DT songs they have, IMO. The demo version is cool too. I might like that one more than the album version.

[smegolas]

Am I the only one who still hopes for TA live?!  Even unofficially...
I have enough live versions of Metropolis to listen to...

EXACTLY!  Love the album, never got to see it live, zero interest in seeing Pull Me Under again.

[Cool Chris]

I like hearing different versions of songs.  I like hearing different things that the guys tried along the way to what they considered the finished product, the final version.  To me, it offers a glimpse into the creative process.

Is that because you are a musician, perhaps? It never would occur to me to be interested in the creative process in anything but I am not a creative person.

I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. That is what I want to listen to/read/watch. I do wrestle with the "Director's Cut" concept behind movies though. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature. I wonder if we will ever get there some day, when an author will release an "Author's Cut" of their book becomes common. I am sure it has happened before, the only instance I can think of is "The Stand" that King was able to release as an uncut/revised edition.

[cramx3]

I don't care much about demos myself, but occasionally they are interesting.  The demos from FII come to example as demos that are interesting, but I don't ever really return to them.  I'd rather the finished product, for one being that it's typically good sound quality where the demo is not and another reason being the final song is typically much better than the demo from a songwriting perspective.  It is interesting to see the creative process, but it's only interesting to see/hear it once or a few times before just returning to the finished product as the "go to" version of the song. 

I think Hollow Years is an exception to the rule.  That live version kicks ass, but I will listen to that, not the demo.

[SwedishGoose]

I like what Daniel Gildenlöw did on the last Pain of Salvation album.

Demo songs with spoken introduktions where he talked about how they came about.

[rab7]

I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature.

This is I think why the FII Demos are probably the most popular of their demos. They faced so much studio pressure during the process that MP needed to show the world what FII was "supposed" to sound like

[bosk1]

I don't care about different versions of different songs. I don't want rough drafts or alternate versions of novels, or films. There is a final product. That is the official product. That is what I want to listen to/read/watch. I do wrestle with the "Director's Cut" concept behind movies though. I understand there is a creative element and a business element behind the release of a film, and they are often at odds in a way that does not usually apply to music or literature. I wonder if we will ever get there some day, when an author will release an "Author's Cut" of their book becomes common. I am sure it has happened before, the only instance I can think of is "The Stand" that King was able to release as an uncut/revised edition.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's a really bad analogy.  Different versions of songs aren't the same thing as a rough draft of a movie or book (unless you are talking about a demo version of a song).  Different versions are finished versions.  Second, you don't go and see a live performance of a movie or book, where you would expect the author or director to change up a chapter or scene because people have heard/seen/read the "standard" version many times over, whereas there is plenty of reason to change up a song to give it a little different flavor.

As for the specific question about Hollow Years, that's probably one of the worst examples that could have been given.  While I really like 98% of what DT does, Hollow Years easily falls in that 2% that I don't.  Different versions do not save it from being an unenjoyable song.   

[Cool Chris]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's a really bad analogy.  Different versions of songs aren't the same thing as a rough draft of a movie or book (unless you are talking about a demo version of a song).  Different versions are finished versions.  Second, you don't go and see a live performance of a movie or book, where you would expect the author or director to change up a chapter or scene because people have heard/seen/read the "standard" version many times over, whereas there is plenty of reason to change up a song to give it a little different flavor.

I apologize, I was not considering a "live" version of a song in the same vein as an alternate version, such as an acoustic, demo, remix, or alternate take.

So excluding that, while different versions of a song are indeed "finished," I really only consider the properly released version to the be authoritative (don't like this work but working and too mentally tired to get a better one) version. The version of Hollow Years (since we are taking about that song) that is on FII is the authoritative version. Excluding a live release, which is just that, a live rendition, any demo version, remixed version, acoustic version, version with Mike on vocals, Derek playing guitar*or any other version are not official versions FII. I have no problem with them existing, and if people like them, then great. I just don't.

Continuing my example, The Stand as released in 78(?) is the official version of the novel The Stand. The 90 version is not. It is "The Complete & Uncut Edition."

I am not explaining my thoughts well.


*Let's call that the 'Making History' version