Do you put the shopping carts back in the corral?

[Podaar]

 

Prediction realized.

[Cool Chris]

I just don't like standing there while someone does something for me that I am capable of myself, especially if it comes at a cost to me.

I'm sure your wife appreciates that. Hey-o!

Anyway, take your cart back to the corral, return it to the store, or leave it in a place where it won't roll in to a car. All are equally acceptable. If I don't park by a corral, I leave my cart on the sidewalk so that it is 1) out of the way of cars and 2) ready for the next customer to grab on their way in.

I can't imagine dropping a quarter in to a machine to rent a cart, even to get the quarter back when I return it. Now I gotta make sure I have a quarter handy when I run to the store?

Not valuing service and treating service oriented businesses like a commodity to be gathered at the lowest possible price has destroyed a lot of the value we once received.

I don't consider a grocery store a "service oriented business." There is some level of service like stocking the shelves, ringing up my purchases (if I don't use the self-check out...). But I think most of us are willing to accept that the things you mentioned - walking the cart to our car, loading up our trunk with our bags - do not hold value for us.

[Podaar]

Agreed, Chris.

Groceries, fuel stations, clothing stores, etc. all used to be hybrid commodity/service businesses. But as pricing pressures have been applied most of us are happy to do without the service end if we can get the same product for less.

[cramx3]

Agreed, Chris.

Groceries, fuel stations, clothing stores, etc. all used to be hybrid commodity/service businesses. But as pricing pressures have been applied most of us are happy to do without the service end if we can get the same product for less.

Fuel stations?  Not here in Jersey, all service baby  and we don't even tip them (well I have before in like blizzard conditions, but not normally)

I just don't like standing there while someone does something for me that I am capable of myself, especially if it comes at a cost to me.

I'm sure your wife appreciates that. Hey-o!

 

[pogoowner]

Israel has a cool system to deal with this, though I'm sure most European countries probably do the same thing.

Essentially all carts all locked and you have to put in a certain amount of money (usually like a quarter or something) to unlock it. Then you get the money back when you return the cart. Mostly seems to work.

They opened up an Aldi's here a few months ago. I was so confused when I couldn't just take a cart. "What? A quarter? CHEAP BASTARDS!"


...


"Oh... I got my quarter back..."

I love ALDI, and I wish all grocery stores did this. I have a far better experience shopping there than pretty much anyplace else.

[Snow Dog]

Fuel stations?  Not here in Jersey, all service baby  and we don't even tip them (well I have before in like blizzard conditions, but not normally

Oregon does the same thing in having someone pump gas for you. I’d rather do it myself. It’d knock the price down a bit per gallon (theoretically) and it would be faster. I don’t know how many times I could’ve pumped my own fuel and left in the same time it took for the attendant to even initially approach my window. I just want to gas up and go!

[The Walrus]

I'm really surprised there are still people who pump gas for you at the station. Wow.

[Snow Dog]

Yup. The reasoning behind it (at least in Oregon) is that it provides jobs. Trouble is that they’re largely minimum wage and positions not much worth holding except for high schoolers to get job experience or as someone’s supplemental income. They’re definitely not anything to make a living with. But that’s a whole other can of worms to be discussed elsewhere...

[Nick]

I file this in the social contract area of decency that if you take a cart to help with the shopping you should basically be agreeing to get it back to the proper spot when you're done.

I totally subscribe to this theory. I try and live by it in all parts of my life. But I just can't put carriage retrieval under this umbrella. This is the store's work. Maybe I'm just old. Because a store does not want to adequately staff the parking lot, I will not be shamed and deluded to think that this is somehow, not only my responsibility, but socially expected.

Again, take out completely the argument of it being someone else's job. Because even if it is, chances are (at least here) that they either aren't doing that 100% of the time or simply can't be on the lot 100% of the time, and even if they are on the lot they can't be retrieving carts from all corners of the lot at once.

With that established you have to expect some sort of time lapse between when you leave your cart and when it's picked up. As has been eluded to already the price of good would shoot up if all these stores hired enough people to have 2-3 people ready to go at all times to pick up all carts immediately. So every time you leave your cart you're one wind gust away from damaging other cars. I'm not saying this to shame you, just trying to get you to think about it from a practical standpoint.

[cramx3]

Fuel stations?  Not here in Jersey, all service baby  and we don't even tip them (well I have before in like blizzard conditions, but not normally

Oregon does the same thing in having someone pump gas for you. I’d rather do it myself. It’d knock the price down a bit per gallon (theoretically) and it would be faster. I don’t know how many times I could’ve pumped my own fuel and left in the same time it took for the attendant to even initially approach my window. I just want to gas up and go!

Yea I was in Oregon earlier this year and was shocked when the guy came and stopped me from being about to pump the gas.  I thought NJ was the only state, guy was so shocked when I told him I was from NJ too.  I have no problem pumping my own gas either, similar to what I mentioned before that I have no issue doing things I am fully capable of doing especially if it would knock off some cents per gallon.  But then again NJ has cheaper gas than many states so it's kind of hard to complain about this.

[Stadler]

Fuel stations?  Not here in Jersey, all service baby  and we don't even tip them (well I have before in like blizzard conditions, but not normally

Oregon does the same thing in having someone pump gas for you. I’d rather do it myself. It’d knock the price down a bit per gallon (theoretically) and it would be faster. I don’t know how many times I could’ve pumped my own fuel and left in the same time it took for the attendant to even initially approach my window. I just want to gas up and go!

Yea I was in Oregon earlier this year and was shocked when the guy came and stopped me from being about to pump the gas.  I thought NJ was the only state, guy was so shocked when I told him I was from NJ too.  I have no problem pumping my own gas either, similar to what I mentioned before that I have no issue doing things I am fully capable of doing especially if it would knock off some cents per gallon.  But then again NJ has cheaper gas than many states so it's kind of hard to complain about this.

It's hard to compare gas prices in hat sense, since, like cigarettes and alcohol, it's a popular thing for States to tax.   I live in the last town in CT before MA, and I know plenty of people (my step son!) who fill up in Mass on purpose to save a couple dollars (it helps that he works over the border).   CT is a blue state, so we tax the shit out of gasoline (thinking it will encourage people to use mass transit and "save the planet"; it does not) whereas others do not for various reasons. 

[Stadler]

I don't consider a grocery store a "service oriented business." There is some level of service like stocking the shelves, ringing up my purchases (if I don't use the self-check out...). But I think most of us are willing to accept that the things you mentioned - walking the cart to our car, loading up our trunk with our bags - do not hold value for us.

You just brought up a great point:   if we're consistent, shouldn't our feelings about the "self-serve checkout" be the same?   I.e., if you think that cart jockeying is a service they should provide and that it feeds jobs, then you ought to be against scanning your own groceries at the checkout.  If you are like me and don't mind doing it yourself, you ought to have no problem with swiping your own meat across the scanner in the checkout line.   

[JayOctavarium]

I don't consider a grocery store a "service oriented business." There is some level of service like stocking the shelves, ringing up my purchases (if I don't use the self-check out...). But I think most of us are willing to accept that the things you mentioned - walking the cart to our car, loading up our trunk with our bags - do not hold value for us.

You just brought up a great point:   if we're consistent, shouldn't our feelings about the "self-serve checkout" be the same?   I.e., if you think that cart jockeying is a service they should provide and that it feeds jobs, then you ought to be against scanning your own groceries at the checkout.  If you are like me and don't mind doing it yourself, you ought to have no problem with swiping your own meat across the scanner in the checkout line.   

Note to self:

Don't use Self Check Outs are stores where Stadler shops. He likes rubbing his genitals on the scanners.

[Cool Chris]

You just brought up a great point:   if we're consistent, shouldn't our feelings about the "self-serve checkout" be the same?   I.e., if you think that cart jockeying is a service they should provide and that it feeds jobs, then you ought to be against scanning your own groceries at the checkout. 

We aren't consistent in our valuation of service though, and we shouldn't be. We factor in worth, and time. I could easily change my car's oil for a lot less than Jiffy Lube, but the time and effort involved swings the balance far enough for me to prefer paying them to do it. Alternatively I could pay someone to clean my house, but that is easy for me to do on my own schedule at no cost, so paying for someone to do it doesn't make any sense.

[Stadler]

You just brought up a great point:   if we're consistent, shouldn't our feelings about the "self-serve checkout" be the same?   I.e., if you think that cart jockeying is a service they should provide and that it feeds jobs, then you ought to be against scanning your own groceries at the checkout. 

We aren't consistent in our valuation of service though, and we shouldn't be. We factor in worth, and time. I could easily change my car's oil for a lot less than Jiffy Lube, but the time and effort involved swings the balance far enough for me to prefer paying them to do it. Alternatively I could pay someone to clean my house, but that is easy for me to do on my own schedule at no cost, so paying for someone to do it doesn't make any sense.

No, no I hear you.  I change my own oil because it's fun and it makes me feel like I'm doing something.  I have cleaners come in because I can't put the two hours it takes in one fell swoop, and they can do it better than I can. 

I'm just talking specifically about the grocery store, and specifically about the rationale for leaving the cart where you darn well please.

[Herrick]

I should clarify, I won't like, leave a tip on the bill when I pay, but I'll drop a few bucks on the table when I'm done. I guess it's the same thing, I just see them differently in my head. I don't know if they get taxed on what I leave on the table?

But I do tend to tip more to the local guys because there's a personal relationship that develops there and I want the local shop to stick around and prosper. There have been times where I'll pick up one item from the Mexican place and the total will be $12 and I'll just give him a 20 and tell him to keep the rest.

I see.

I'm pretty sure the cash left on the table gets taxed.

[Snow Dog]

I should clarify, I won't like, leave a tip on the bill when I pay, but I'll drop a few bucks on the table when I'm done. I guess it's the same thing, I just see them differently in my head. I don't know if they get taxed on what I leave on the table?

But I do tend to tip more to the local guys because there's a personal relationship that develops there and I want the local shop to stick around and prosper. There have been times where I'll pick up one item from the Mexican place and the total will be $12 and I'll just give him a 20 and tell him to keep the rest.

I see.

I'm pretty sure the cash left on the table gets taxed.

Yeah, it *should* get taxed. The thing about cash to a server, though, is that they can easily not claim that kind of tip since there’s no record of it like there would be with tips from a credit card slip. Most, if not all, of my coworkers did this to some degree, though the restaurant tried to safeguard against it by saying you had to claim at least 15% of your sales for the day as tips. So if your credit card tips covered that 15% in sales, you could essentially keep the cash tips unclaimed and thus tax free. Didn’t make it right, but it was definitely a loophole that many, including myself at times, took advantage of.

[RoeDent]

With the majority of shopping trolleys here, you have to deposit a £1 coin (or, like me, a trolley token with the same dimensions as a pound coin) to release the trolley, so you have to return it to the corral (as you call it; no idea what the UK alternative is) to get your pound back.

[Logain Ablar]

With the majority of shopping trolleys here, you have to deposit a £1 coin (or, like me, a trolley token with the same dimensions as a pound coin) to release the trolley, so you have to return it to the corral (as you call it; no idea what the UK alternative is) to get your pound back.

It's a "trolley park" apparently, though I had to google it. 

Back in the 90's, we had to switch trolleys at the checkout. So you put your pound in the trolley out in the car park, went inside to do your shopping, and then brought your trolley to the checkout, where you then left the trolley at one end, paid for and bagged up your stuff and put in a different trolley at the other end of the checkout.

The local kids soon got wise to this. Quite a few times you'd be returning your trolley after putting your shopping in the car, to find out some wee toerag had jammed a piece of stick into the coin slot. So they'd done that to release the trolley, brought it into the shop and exchanged it for a new trolley containing a shiny pound coin. Then they'd returned the trolley and made off with the loot.

Quite the money maker.. 

[Tick]

I put them back because I'm an upstanding citizen.

[The Walrus]

I should clarify, I won't like, leave a tip on the bill when I pay, but I'll drop a few bucks on the table when I'm done. I guess it's the same thing, I just see them differently in my head. I don't know if they get taxed on what I leave on the table?

But I do tend to tip more to the local guys because there's a personal relationship that develops there and I want the local shop to stick around and prosper. There have been times where I'll pick up one item from the Mexican place and the total will be $12 and I'll just give him a 20 and tell him to keep the rest.

I see.

I'm pretty sure the cash left on the table gets taxed.

Yeah, it *should* get taxed. The thing about cash to a server, though, is that they can easily not claim that kind of tip since there’s no record of it like there would be with tips from a credit card slip. Most, if not all, of my coworkers did this to some degree, though the restaurant tried to safeguard against it by saying you had to claim at least 15% of your sales for the day as tips. So if your credit card tips covered that 15% in sales, you could essentially keep the cash tips unclaimed and thus tax free. Didn’t make it right, but it was definitely a loophole that many, including myself at times, took advantage of.

Yeah, that's exactly what I've wondered, especially after asking friends who have delivered pizzas or waited tables etc. I know they almost never reported it. I mean, the pizza guys are the same ones who would bring a pizza to a friend's place and take a massive bong rip before heading back on the road, haha, so I would just expect them to not report it (or under report it).

[El Barto]

Down here the "salary" waiters are paid essentially zero's out the tax liability. Don't think I'd call that a loophole or a scam. I suppose if everybody got audited some would come out ahead and others behind, but in the end it seems a reasonable and simple system. You keep your tips and the restaurant gives you a check for $0.0.

[Dublagent66]

Made a comment on a relative's Facebook post about (in general) lazy bastards leaving their shopping carts in the lot instead of walking them over to the corral. If you can drag it through the store, weigh it down with products, bring it back out to your car... you can push the empty cart a few extra feet. Yes, you are a lazy bastard if you don't do that, and you should admit it. Well, a friend of said relative admitted she is too lazy to put them up, but was apparently deeply offended by my comment...

So, fess up. Do you do the right thing, or do you leave carts out to roll around and damage people's cars? 

I always do it because I can't stand people who don't.  It's rude, inconsiderate and down right disrespectful.  I'd be willing to bet that the people who don't do it will get pissed at others who don't if it inconveniences them in any way.  Also, it's not just laziness, it's another form of entitlement.  They feel like they're entitled not to do it because it's someone else's job.  In other words, it's beneath them.  That goes way beyond lazy, and to be deeply offended by comments about them?  That goes right past stupid also.

[bosk1]

It's rude, inconsiderate and down right disrespectful.

No it isn't.

[The Walrus]

It's rude, inconsiderate and down right disrespectful.

No it isn't.

Yeah, it is, actually.

[bosk1]

You failed to persuade.  Try again.

[The Walrus]

Plenty of reasons already laid out and beaten thoroughly into the ground. A cart left out in the open can block a parking space. If one feels so inclined, they will have to stop their car and then move the cart themselves. A stray cart, especially one with a rogue wheel, could roll right into a car and cause expensive damage (this is the biggest point of concern). A stray cart indicates the person thinks it is beneath them to walk a cart a few feet over to the designated Place Where Carts and Carts Only Gather, as if it's a microaggression against them to fulfill this moral obligation to keep shit nice and clear out in the lot where your expensive and fancy vehicles rest (hopefully) unperturbered by the wandering steel menace that threatens to scratch them. Oh, and it makes it much easier for the employees to gather them all at once. Hope that parking lot doesn't ice over!

So yeah, it is rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful. Put your fuckin' cart back!

[bosk1]

There is no "back."  They aren't in the corral to start with, so there is no "back." 

Anyway, I'm not talking about "stray carts."  NOBODY has addressed how supposedly not putting them in the corral, but not leaving them where they can roll into carts is somehow "rude" or "inconsiderate."  It just isn't.  And nobody who actually works retrieving carts around here thinks it is.  So who exactly is it rude or inconsiderate to?  I think Chris summed it up perfectly:

Anyway, take your cart back to the corral, return it to the store, or leave it in a place where it won't roll in to a car. All are equally acceptable.

[The Walrus]

If there is a designated place - multiple, even - in the lot to which you are hinted to return the carts, by their very nature of existing, not returning them is somewhat inconsiderate. Considering employees go out there to return them inside the store, it helps continue a cycle of efficiency. It doesn't matter if they're just left somewhere where they aren't gonna roll. I also see people in my town just take those stray ones off the lot and take them home, seriously. Hell, there's one right out in the back lot of my shop because someone rolled it back there one day. No idea whose it is, either.

[bosk1]

"Increasing efficiency" is not the same as not being "rude" or "inconsiderate."  If it doesn't effect you (and it doesn't if the cart isn't left to roll into your car and if you as a customer can get a cart in the cart bin in the store), you don't get to judge whether it is rude or inconsiderate.  The people to whom it does matter do not consider it rude or inconsiderate, so your opinion is irrelevant.

[The Walrus]

But that wasn't my only argument for it being rude/inconsiderate/etc. My opinion is not irrelevant. Maybe I think employees shouldn't have to go chasing carts that aren't in the spot that is conveniently designed for patrons to use. 

[bosk1]

And if said employees don't care in the least and recognize that that "designated" area is for the convenience of those who don't know how to properly stow a cart so it doesn't roll, then, yeah, your opinion IS irrelevant and your self-righteousness is misplaced. 

Here's the actual case:  25 years ago, I worked as a grocery clerk.  My job was to round up the carts.  Every single one of us in that role felt that the right answer was "take your cart back to the corral, return it to the store, or leave it in a place where it won't roll into a car."  Any of those were acceptable.  None of us cared in the least whether customers put the carts into the corrals.  The corrals were there for the convenience of the customer, not us.  As long as the cart was properly put up so it wouldn't roll, all was good.  And not a single one of us complained of carts that weren't in corrals.  I know for me personally, it wouldn't have even occurred to me that it was an issue.*

So, a week or so ago, when I saw this thread, I ran it by someone I know who is a teenager working at our local Wal-Mart.  I just wanted to see if maybe either I had been missing something all this time (possible) or if times had simply changed and the expectation is different now than it was when I worked that job.  His response was, basically, confusion over why it would even be an issue.  If the cart wasn't rolling into cars and wasn't on the other side of town, he didn't care.  And he didn't know anybody who would.

So, again, if the only people being effected don't hold to your arbitrary made-up rule, forgive me if I laugh off your passing judgment on things that really aren't your business.


*The only caveat to that is, "within reason."  Namely, if you brought your cart way to the outer limits of the entire shopping center lot where it wasn't even near our store, that wasn't cool.  But, by and large, people didn't do that.   

[The Walrus]

Man, I dunno, bosk. I see a designated place to which one should return a cart, I return it there. Simple as that. It's like parking your car in the middle of a lot instead of the parking space. Yeah, you CAN... but you're kind of a douche if you do.

And really? You're gonna take validation from a TEENAGER on not doing something??  Did you ask him if he cleans his room too?

EDIT: Also, I do consider it my business, because a rogue cart DOES have the potential to, indeed, damage my vehicle or someone else's. Hence why I'm so anal about people putting 'em back, and I do just that if I'm walking in and see one sitting there, just eyeing its next meal, a hint of hunger for paint gleaming in all its metal bars. If there's a possibility for it, just avoid it! Simple as.

[bosk1]

And really? You're gonna take validation from a TEENAGER on not doing something??

Yeah.  Since he is the only one who I could possibly be "rude" or "inconsiderate" to in this entire equation, his is really the only opinion that matters.  Who else is it rude to?  Nobody.

EDIT: Also, I do consider it my business, because a rogue cart DOES have the potential to, indeed, damage my vehicle or someone else's.

Irrelevant.  Again, I'm not talking about "rogue" carts that can roll into someone's car.  I'm talking about carts that are properly stowed so that they CAN'T roll, but aren't in the corral. 

[The Walrus]

And really? You're gonna take validation from a TEENAGER on not doing something??

Yeah.  Since he is the only one who I could possibly be "rude" or "inconsiderate" to in this entire equation, his is really the only opinion that matters.  Who else is it rude to?  Nobody.

It's just common courtesy. If your argument for not putting 'em up is simply that it isn't rude to the employee, that's ignoring the larger concern of damaged cars, which I continue to harp on because it is the biggest point of concern in this discussion with actual financial repercussions, but is being pushed aside for discussing the feelings of the employee. Regardless of how often (or not) you think it happens, it does happen a lot, and if nothing else, THAT should be the impetus for just about everyone to put 'em back, just out of common courtesy.