Author Topic: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017  (Read 7745 times)

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Offline pg1067

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2017, 10:14:45 AM »
So after hearing the cover only once as basis of your informed opinion, was there a susbtantial difference between James and Geddy's singing of "Paradise" and "Escape these caves of ice"? I am focusing on these two because these are the subjects of most criticisms.

I've now listened to it several times.

The word "paradise" appears in the song three times (or five times, since the middle time is "paradise, oh paradise" and the third time is "paradise, more than paradise" (at least that's what it sounds like to me)).  The first time is around 5:13 of both the original and the cover.  Is there a "substantial difference"?  I would say so.  Geddy and James don't sound much alike.

The second instance of "paradise" happens around 6:44 of the original and slightly thereafter on the cover.  The phrasing of "paradise, oh paradise" is similar, but there appears to be a badly done overdub in the cover.  When Geddy sings this line, it sounds effortless even though it's a very high vocal.  James, on the other hand, is clearly straining to hit the notes, so there most certainly is a "substantial difference" between the two (as well as the lines leading up to it).  This is not a criticism.  As more than one person previously noted, Geddy was 23 years old when he recorded the original, whereas James was 30 years older.  Maybe James could have hit the notes with the same effortlessness as Geddy when he was 23, but no one expects that from him now.

"Escape these caves of ice" occurs at 8:50 of the original and is followed shortly thereafter by the third instance of "paradise."  As with the second instance, Geddy sounds effortless, while James sounds strained.  James also appears to put more "oomph" into this one, which I assume was a stylistic choice.  Again, there is a "substantial difference" between Geddy's and James's versions.

Would it be better if James had done it a little closer to the original or completely re-done the melody line to make it easier on himself?  Maybe.  Could he have sounded smoother?  Under the circumstances, I think probably not.  Do I like it as much as the original?  No, but it's a really good cover, and I like hearing bands I like cover songs I like, so good job.
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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #106 on: December 07, 2017, 10:59:56 AM »
It's not strained, just a style/technique James has ALWAYS used for notes around that area live. (Praying for TIIME! to disappear)
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2017, 02:33:10 PM »
I thought James sounded awesome! I like that he made it his own and put his own style to it. I so love the harmonies, a nice added touch that wasn't on the original. The whole band sounded great, the only thing I noticed was that the bell was a little off key, lol!  I only listened to it on my mobile phone, so maybe my phone made it sound that way.
 I can't wait to hear this on my big stereo!
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Offline Sycsa

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2017, 04:35:29 PM »
I like the cover on all levels. The two sensitive spots are, of course, MM and JLB.

This is hands off MM’s best drum sound with DT, it’s natural, warm, and, most importantly, has lots of dynamics. The snare is just lovely, that snare roll at the end was a bliss to listen to. His playing is dynamic and groovy. If I didn’t know better, I’d think it was MP playing.

JLB’s singing, while far from technically perfect, has lots of character and passion, and it’s overall extremely fun to listen to. Say what you will, but the guy is special. I especially liked his prominent use of vibrato.

Nice effort, DT!


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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #109 on: December 09, 2017, 09:41:12 AM »
So, am I the only one who likes more the MM's drum sound in TA than in this cover.... and the mix in general tbh?...

To my ears, the sound they came up with shows that they didn't put much time in editing/mixing the song... and that's ok because is just a cover, but I don't get the "DT should mix their future albums this way" part.. I mean, really?..
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #110 on: December 09, 2017, 11:03:11 AM »
I see your point. I'm a big fan of the drum sound on TA, pretty hard to top.  :coolio
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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #111 on: December 09, 2017, 02:19:44 PM »
I've listened to it a few times and the band is really on point with the exception of James. I'll just use the word that's already been thrown around, rough.

Offline Lethean

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #112 on: December 09, 2017, 08:02:42 PM »
I've been listening to it a lot and I'm with Architeuthis. I really like James' interpretation.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2017, 12:20:12 AM »
Just checked out the cover on Spotify.... They didn't change the song that much, but then DT's covers have always been pretty faithful to the originals. Well done, but I'd rather listen to the original, and James sounds pretty rough in the "honeydew" part - I mean, even Geddy had a hard time with those notes at that age.

To be fair, the production is the best I've heard on a DT recording in years - Mangini's drums sound great for once and Myung is very audible. I hope the next album will continue along these lines sonically!

There's hope for Mangini's drum sound unless he really likes the sound on the last three albums but I seriously doubt Myung will be this audible on the next album. DT & Rush are too very different bands and Myung's influence is way lower than Geddy's.

Dream Theater's post on this on Facebook has become a James LaBrie bashfest.

Those who are bashing James' vocals in this song, have they even heard the original version? James did not sing this in his style. He was trying to sing it like how Geddy sang it.

Are the bashers saying that Geddy's original vocals are awful as well? If not, what fucking hypocritical double standard because JLB's interpretation is really close to how Geddy sang it.

Tell me I'm wrong.

I thought LaBrie sounded pretty good on this considering his age and the fact that they played the song in the original tuning.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2017, 09:34:23 AM »
BTW, anybody notice the really harsh crossfade on James at 6:50? They must have assembled that part in tiny pieces.
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Offline don_waka

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2017, 12:54:31 PM »
Just finished listening to it. Or should I say cringing to it.  :facepalm:

Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2017, 06:05:07 AM »
As I'm in the minority here in not really being into Rush and therefore not having heard the original, I'll make a couple of quick points:

1) I think those who say James sounds like Geddy on this aren't all that far off, but it's not so much because James was consciously trying to sing that way. It's more that the phrasings of these lines and the rapid shifts in pitch are a fairly idiosyncratic feature of Geddy's voice, at least in the dozen or so Rush songs I've heard, and so a singer would really have to work hard to not have some of that Geddyness still stay in there. That said, it's obvious that there are still some tonal and stylistic differences at play, even as LaBrie gets somewhat pulled into the Rush style here.

2) The song has a ton of D5s in it. That's a note James has struggled with live for many years, and frankly I'm surprised that a number of those notes here are really strong and work well, especially given the phrasings they're in. However, it's pretty obvious that there's a good amount of melodyning or some other weird sort of edits going on. 5:43 sounds really unnatural, for example. Just underscores that the recording was something of a rush job--I imagine that James would've come through better with more time.
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Online Evai

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #117 on: December 14, 2017, 09:06:47 AM »
I think 5:43 was just his voice cracking as he strains to get the note
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #118 on: December 17, 2017, 02:17:28 AM »
Just finished listening to it. Or should I say cringing to it.  :facepalm:
Nothing cringeworthy about it,  I love it. The fact that Rush wanted Dream Theater to do this speaks volumes.
 I know you didn't directly single out James, but many in this thread have. People are always critical of the vocalist and James gets picked on a lot. He's one of the best singers out there and he did a great job on this cover. Its sometimes better to perhaps have a beer and enjoy the music instead of being critical all the time.. It's DREAM THEATER, they did a cover of one of their favorite bands and they did a darn good job at it. I'm sure the members of Rush take it as a huge compliment.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:42:06 PM by Architeuthis »
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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #119 on: December 17, 2017, 11:18:16 AM »
I can pretty much live with the vocals, the roughest part for me was the "paradise" at 9:05. Reminds me of the vocals on To Tame A Land on the BC&SL Covers Disc. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the vocals that were actually done during the BC&SL sessions, some of which are some of James' strongest ever.

Love hearing Myung so clearly.
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2017, 12:10:47 PM »
Just finished listening to it. Or should I say cringing to it.  :facepalm:
Nothing cringeworthy about it,  I love it. The fact that Rush wanted Dream Theater to do this speaks volumes.
 I know you didn't directly single out James, but many in this thread have. People are always critical of the vocalist and James gets picked on a lot. He's one of the best singers out there and he did a great job on this cover. Its sometimes better to perhaps have a beer and enjoy the music instead of being critical all the time.. It's DREAM THEATER, they did a cover of one of their favorite bands and they did a darn good job at it. I'm sure the members of Rush take it as a huge complement.

Totally agreed.. Why are we like desinged to complaint about everything right?... instead of just enjoying and maybe express it, or not enjoying and doing what James himself ask ppl to do in those kind of situations: keept it to yourself..  ;D

Now constructive criticism is a very different animal...
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Offline Sycsa

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2017, 01:07:12 PM »
If you watch The Gift of Music on YouTube, one of the top rated comments is: "No one hates Dream Theater more than Dream Theater fans." Words of wisdom.


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Online Evai

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 02:29:09 PM »
Criticism is what keeps band forums alive to be honest  :lol
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2017, 03:36:30 AM »
If you watch The Gift of Music on YouTube, one of the top rated comments is: "No one hates Dream Theater more than Dream Theater fans." Words of wisdom.

Ikr, but to be more specific, and realistic as well, let me put it this way: no one hates current DT more than most of old DT fans..

Criticism is what keeps band forums alive to be honest  :lol

Definitely not the kind of criticism at least *I* was talking about..


I mean, they don't read the forum and even if they did that is very unlikely they'd listen to any of us.. But even if there's a chance of that, I don't get the "they should do this", "yeah, they should sound like this cover", or even worse, the useless complaints.. Can't we just say that we like it?.. To my ears, some comments go -or try to go- further than expressing an opinion, and don't realize that are being unrespectful..

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2017, 04:38:40 AM »
. Can't we just say that we like it?.. To my ears, some comments go -or try to go- further than expressing an opinion, and don't realize that are being unrespectful..


Yeah, but then the thread ends up being really short, and everybody stops visiting the forum because it's become an echo chamber of 'I like it'. Then the forum becomes overrun by spam bots and eventually gets shut down.

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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #125 on: December 20, 2017, 08:40:30 AM »
 :lol Exactly my point..
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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2017, 02:04:27 AM »
Mangini posted this on twitter:

"Answers 2: Xanadu track was a 1-Take + a few punch-ins at a IAWords gig soundcheck with the raw kit sound, Jimmy T on Pro Tools, used heads and Chycki on the mix afterwards."

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2017, 11:44:06 AM »
Can't say I am surprised.  JLB's vocals in the studio are usually, at worst, really good, and on this cover of Xanadu, they sound rough, like one of those bad live nights we always hear about.  The bummer is some Rush fans, who are unfamiliar with Dream Theater, will hear this cover and think they have a bad singer.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2017, 06:59:43 PM »
Can't say I am surprised.  JLB's vocals in the studio are usually, at worst, really good, and on this cover of Xanadu, they sound rough, like one of those bad live nights we always hear about.  The bummer is some Rush fans, who are unfamiliar with Dream Theater, will hear this cover and think they have a bad singer.
I introduced a friend to Dream Theater last night. I put in the BTFW dvd, and he said he didn't like the singer. I think BTFW might be a bad place to start to introduce someone to DT. The mix isn't great on that show and JLB gets misrepresented.
 I think studio allbums are a better place to start with DT.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Dream Theater Xanadu Rush Cover Coming Dec 2017
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2017, 11:06:59 PM »
Just heard this. I think the praise for the production has more to do with arrangement than anything else. Even at their proggiest, such as on Xanadu, 70s Rush stuck pretty faithfully to that stripped down power trio sound. There are keyboards and various embellishments throughout, but the core is primarily guitar, bass, and drums with very little overdubs. JR is hardly present on this at all and, while it's a little heavier on guitar overdubs than the original, the guitar is nowhere near as overpowering as on a Dream Theater song. So there's a lot more room for Mangini's drums and a louder bass mix. I imagine Mangini's complicated setup combined with the constant onslaught of keys and guitar makes him extremely difficult to mix.
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