Author Topic: New Geoff Tate album  (Read 2236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bill1971

  • Posts: 743
New Geoff Tate album
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:54:39 AM »
I know there are not a great deal of Tate fans here but those who are.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-operation-mindcrime-the-new-reality-artwork-track-listing/

Looks like the third part of the Trilogy is called The New Reality and to be released Dec 1st. I enjoyed most of the Key, a few of the songs off Resurrection so I am looking forward to this.

Offline Samsara

  • Queensr˙che Biographer and Historian
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8747
  • Gender: Male
  • Memory flows...like a river.
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 11:53:21 AM »
What I found most interesting is that in the Chicago Tribune piece, he talks about Operation: Mindcrime in the past tense.

For example:

Quote
"The whole OPERATION: MINDCRIME project was really a group effort,"

Note the use of "was."

A small, but curious item. Now that this "trilogy" is complete, is Operation: Mindcrime, the "project band" done with?

As for the third part of this trilogy, there have been a couple good songs on the first two parts, but that's about it, honestly. I expect the final installment will be the same.
Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) - At the printer! Out in May 2024!

Pre-order now at www.roadstomadness.com!

Offline bill1971

  • Posts: 743
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 12:07:04 PM »
Perhaps he is saying "was" because they recorded them all at the same time. Looking forward to the new album, hopefully get a few good tracks of off of it. I bought the entire first album. Out of the second one I really enjoy The Fight and Taking on the World.

Offline njfirefighter

  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 01:00:02 PM »
I don't begrudge him as much as some do. I have no personal past animosity towards any past or present members of Queensryche or their management unlike some. I just would prefer for him never to sing for Queensryche again, as they are in better hands with Todd. That said. I still follow his solo career , have seen him with his band during the Frequency Unknown tour and have picked up both records thus far of the trilogy and I enjoy several songs from each of those three releases.

Operation Mindcrime is not Queensryche, Its not supposed to be, it doesn't sound much like it and is completely different stuff and some of it isn't bad and can be enjoyed. I'm a music fan. His ego, attitude, wardrobe, personal conduct, management team, etc etc.. means jack shit to me on a personal level. I check out his music and if I care for a few songs I play them some more, if I don't then I don't play them some more. I've heard much worse music out there than his last two offerings and I expect the third one will be in the same ballpark and have some enjoyable songs on it.     

Offline devieira73

  • Posts: 2867
  • Gender: Male
  • Boldly go where no brazilian has gone before...
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »
I know there are not a great deal of Tate fans here but those who are.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-operation-mindcrime-the-new-reality-artwork-track-listing/

Looks like the third part of the Trilogy is called The New Reality and to be released Dec 1st. I enjoyed most of the Key, a few of the songs off Resurrection so I am looking forward to this.

Thanks for the head's up! :tup
Interesting that I like a lot Frequency Unknown (it's the real first OM album, right?), a bit less The Key and not so much Ressurection. But I'll by the mp3 version of this one too anyway, to give a chance.
"one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." (RIP Neil Armstrong)

Offline Samsara

  • Queensr˙che Biographer and Historian
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8747
  • Gender: Male
  • Memory flows...like a river.
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 08:58:09 AM »

Interesting that I like a lot Frequency Unknown (it's the real first OM album, right?), a bit less The Key and not so much Ressurection. But I'll by the mp3 version of this one too anyway, to give a chance.

 I think the major difference though, is that FU was written by Slater and a couple of others, musically, whereas if I am not mistaken, the first two OPM Band records were written by Kelly Gray and Randy Gane.

The thing is with Tate and OPM Band -- is that there IS an audience for what he is doing. But I really think he has done himself a disservice, marketing-wise. The fact he went out and did some dates with Avantasia was a smart move. As is him taking a version of the OPM Band (which consists of different live players, apparently) out with Angra in Europe next year. Those are smart moves.

Like I have done with the last two OPM Band records, I'll listen to The New Reality, and see what sticks.

Perhaps he is saying "was" because they recorded them all at the same time. Looking forward to the new album, hopefully get a few good tracks of off of it. I bought the entire first album. Out of the second one I really enjoy The Fight and Taking on the World.

Good point, Bill. It could be that yes.

I agree with you on the second album, and those tracks. There's one other one that's pretty decent too. I can't recall it off the top of my head.
Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) - At the printer! Out in May 2024!

Pre-order now at www.roadstomadness.com!

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5190
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 08:02:11 AM »
The last GT album I listened to was FU, and I think it had some cool songs in it, I just don't remember which ones  :lol . Haven't checked the OPMC albums yet, but I think I should give them a spin.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline T-ski

  • Posts: 2921
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 07:13:14 AM »
first track released....its a mess.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZK3OXpOXKI&t=0s
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 07:33:11 AM by T-ski »
Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

Offline Polarbear

  • Posts: 1499
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
I like that song, there i said it...

Sounds like a mid tier Queensryche song!

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12820
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 09:03:51 AM »
first track released....its a mess.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZK3OXpOXKI&t=0s

Wow.  Not very good.  "Mess" about sums it up.  I thought that opening riff was okay.  But once the vocal started in, it went downhill fast.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline njfirefighter

  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 10:49:28 AM »
The most memorable aspect of that song is actually Kelly's guitar to my ears, so that being said, we're not off to a good start on this one. The vocals sound the same as they have on the last several, weak, strained and staying in a safe zone of half sing half spoken lyric mediocrity. And I'm one of the guys that actually roots for the dude to put out something good and get his vocals back to respectability.     

Offline Mebert78

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2489
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 11:58:08 AM »
The vocals sound the same as they have on the last several, weak, strained and staying in a safe zone of half sing half spoken lyric mediocrity.

That surprises me, because I recall Samsara posting recently about Tate's vocals having improved.  I guess he just had a good week or two. :-\
An unofficial online community for fans of keyboardist Kevin Moore (ex-Dream Theater, Chroma Key, OSI):


Online Grappler

  • Posts: 3471
  • Gender: Male
  • Victory, Illinois Varsity
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 12:02:29 PM »
The vocals sound the same as they have on the last several, weak, strained and staying in a safe zone of half sing half spoken lyric mediocrity.

This surprises me, because Samsara had been posting recently about Tate's vocals having improved.  I guess he just had a good week or two.

The albums were all recorded several years ago.  Geoff actually confirmed this in the blabbermouth link/press release: 


Quote
"We did one really massive session and recorded everything. I've just been finishing it over the years."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-operation-mindcrime-the-new-reality-artwork-track-listing.html#EDOTVe35bt2uuVby.99



So we're all hearing vocal tracks that are a few years old.  This past year he toured with Avantasia and played some shows where his voice sounds better than it has a few years ago.  I was fairly impressed by the videos of the Avantasia shows and some of the other stuff I've seen.


Offline bill1971

  • Posts: 743
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 12:32:49 PM »
The vocals sound the same as they have on the last several, weak, strained and staying in a safe zone of half sing half spoken lyric mediocrity.

This surprises me, because Samsara had been posting recently about Tate's vocals having improved.  I guess he just had a good week or two.

The albums were all recorded several years ago.  Geoff actually confirmed this in the blabbermouth link/press release: 


Quote
"We did one really massive session and recorded everything. I've just been finishing it over the years."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-operation-mindcrime-the-new-reality-artwork-track-listing.html#EDOTVe35bt2uuVby.99



So we're all hearing vocal tracks that are a few years old.  This past year he toured with Avantasia and played some shows where his voice sounds better than it has a few years ago.  I was fairly impressed by the videos of the Avantasia shows and some of the other stuff I've seen.

Yes, I was going to address that as well. I wish he redid the vocals now, I know they would be better. I truly think he has improved.

The track itself is not bad. Doesn't make me jump out of my seat excited to get the album but I will check it out.

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2017, 02:26:51 PM »
Don't like any of it.
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Offline njfirefighter

  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2017, 12:32:05 AM »
The vocals sound the same as they have on the last several, weak, strained and staying in a safe zone of half sing half spoken lyric mediocrity.

That surprises me, because I recall Samsara posting recently about Tate's vocals having improved.  I guess he just had a good week or two. :-\


I think he was talking about the Avantasia stuff, I thought he sounded good on that too and he sounded good on the live clip doing it when he came out and sang it live at that festival or whatever it was.

The acoustic shows, ehh, I didn't put a lot of stock in that because that is more subdued and mellow and doesn't require the power vocals to cut through the background noise as much.

Yes, I do understand that supposedly all three of these records we're recorded in the same time crunched recording sessions span. He said right from the beginning and that they would be spaced out in releases. That being said, he did state in the latest blabbermouth article that they were all recorded previous during the key sessions, all three were recorded, but went on to say that there were touch ups and tweaks done along the way. So he had every opportunity to re- record, touch up or doctor up the vocals to his satisfaction. whether he did so or not who knows.

 Upcoming shows will be hitting the net in the not too distant future especially those that will have him once AGAIN, performing all of Mindcrime, so that will answer all the questions in due time as to whether his vocals have improved or not.

My main point is basically that ever since the Take Cover album on through to Dedicated To Chaos, as well as Frequency Unknown and his solo albums I hear the same nasal, lower register, voice cracking in spots, unfinished high notes, vocal quality from him and a heavy reliance on more of a spoken word type singing a lot of time as opposed to actually belting something out. I'm not a singer, so I'm struggling to describe it, hopefully people can understand what I'm trying to say.

He was always my all time favorite singer but his really good vocal performances to my ears on those records are much fewer and far between than on all of his previous work. There are some moments on American Soldier, some moments on Frequency Unknown, and some moments on the last two OM releases but it's the exception not the norm and it's been that way quite some time.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12820
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 08:25:03 AM »
On the Avantasia song, he does sound better.  But there are a few reasons for that, and not all of them are things Geoff gets to take credit for.  Some of it is, as I said, that he does actually do a better job on Seduction of Decay than he has on his own material dating back quite far.  Kudos to Geoff for stepping up and delivering a good performance.  I suspect, although I have no proof, that a big part of Geoff delivering a good performance is Tobi pushing for a good performance and not settling for anything less.  I say that because Avantasia is totally Tobi's baby and he isn't going to let a song suck because a vocalist phoned it in.  He is a control freak, and he has high standards.  I suspect he was much more hands-on in coaching Geoff than what Geoff gets when working on his own material.  And given that this is clearly a Tobi project, I don't think Geoff would have had an issue with that.  He's smart enough to know he can't come into someone else's house and call the shots like he does with his own stuff. 

Part of it that has nothing to do with Geoff is that Tobi props him up.  There is a LOT of Tobi harmony that is filling in the holes.  It doesn't jump out as not being Geoff because Tobi knows how to blend with Tate rather than steal Tate's thunder and take the lead himself.  If you listen carefully, there are lots of spots where Tobi is doing that (and plenty where you really can't tell whether the lead is Geoff or Tobi). 

There is also a lot done in production to make it sound good.  It is hard to tell how much of it is effects, how much is layering a lot of vocal parts, or what have you.  But it isn't just a one-take lazily slapped over the instrumental track, which is what a lot of Geoff's parts in recent years have sounded like.

Honestly, Tate should take a cue from this experience and use it going forward.  If his studio performances were passable, I might be more inclined to give him a pass in a live setting.  I mean, a lot of his live singing habits, his abuse of his voice, and his failure to warm up and do other things to get his voice in shape are his own fault.  But still, live vocals are difficult, and I find it hard to hold someone Geoff's age to the same standards I would hold him to when he was younger.  But there is no excuse for not putting out a solid studio performance on his albums.  There are lots of things singers do to make their studio recordings sound better, and most of these are no-brainers.  Take it line by line.  Rest in between.  Re-do until it sounds right.  Use lots of layers.  Let yourself be directed by someone with a good ear, and listen when they say something doesn't sound good.  Use proper effects when necessary.  Let the vocals be worked on in post-production.  Get some solid harmonies from other good singers.  It doesn't matter that it can't be replicated live.  If nobody likes the studio versions of the stuff you are putting out there, they probably aren't going to come see you sound even worse in a live setting.

"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 5190
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 09:49:42 AM »
Great post, Bosk! I agree with all you said on vocal recordings, there's just no excuse these days to put out a sloppy performance on a studio record.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline njfirefighter

  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Geoff Tate album
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 10:29:22 AM »
Bosk sums that up well, and basically explains there exactly what my thoughts are in terms of the studio recordings in particular when he says " He does do a better job on Seduction of Decay than he has on his own material dating back quite far". I know he has nights that are better than others in the live setting, I thought he sounded good on the particular night that I saw him on the Frequency Unknown tour. Live is a different animal, one day your in a good mood and good frame of mind and you can rise to the occasional, not unlike a baseball player that goes 0-4 with three strikeouts and then two nights latter goes 4-4 with five rbi's. There's going to be good nights, ok nights and bad nights with Geoff's current vocals.

From the album/recording side of things. There is no excuse these days whether your recording in an expensive studio or recording in a home studio. There is auto tune, so many tools and tricks that you can do to doctor up the vocals that I'm of the thinking that if he cant use those tools and tricks to make himself sound better than what has been shown on his last several albums than either he doesn't care or he really doesn't have much left in the tank as far as his vocal abilities, or most likely a combination of the two.

 From what I've read, seen and heard,  seems like with these auto tune and gadgets and tricks today somebody that knows what they are doing could probably make my singing sound halfway decent lol, so I don't understand why he isn't able to prop his vocals up on the studio albums. They do it, just listen to The Weight of the World from Frequency Unknown, that song is good and you can tell that one is doctored up with effects. So if the effects and tricks don't even work in most of his songs. The end result to my thinking is he really has lost an awful lot of that boat load of ability he had when he was younger.