Author Topic: Las Vegas shooting  (Read 1687 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Las Vegas shooting
« on: October 04, 2017, 09:35:46 AM »
Someone had posted asking if this could be discussed in the General Discussion area of the forum.  The short answer is:  Absolutely. 

BUT we need to keep the political debate out of this thread, and that includes the gun control debate or commentary about gun laws.  That is all fair for discussion in the Political/Religious subforum only.  The forum rules and clear, and I am going the extra mile to start the thread myself and clearly set expectations right up front, so there is no excuse.  Please don't go there.  This thread is about discussing the events themselves and how people are copying with this tragic event and others like it.  Please keep it respectful and on track.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, I posted this in the thread in P/R and thought it would make a good jumping off point for discussion.  I felt this deserved to be re-posted on its own and not bogged down in the gun debate morass. 

When I switched on my radio on the drive in to work today, there was a woman being interviewed who was there.  I wish I had heard the whole thing.  It was fantastic.  I mean, it was tragic, and it literally brought tears to my eye.  But there was one thing in particular that she said that really hit home to me that I think really needs to be emphasized.  I will get to that in a minute.  First let me give some context.

I believe the woman's name was Heather.  I didn't catch her last name, unfortunately.  She was in the crowd during the shooting.  A guy near her that she didn't know was hit and killed.  I didn't get all the details of that because, as I said, I had tuned in toward the end of it.  But she was talking about how she knew he had died and was alone, so she dug out his wallet to find out his name (it was Jordan something--I didn't pick up the last name).  She was able to find him on Facebook (on her phone, I assume) while she was still sitting out there.  I guess she was able to determine from some posts that he was there with his girlfriend, so she contacted the girlfriend, who was about a block away, but could not get there because of the lockdown.  She also searched and found the only other people on Facebook with the same last name, and was able to contact his parents.  Heather told the girlfriend and the parents what had happened, cried with them, and promised them that she would stay with Jordan's body and not let anything happen to him, and that she would keep them informed.  She then stayed there with the body of this stranger, alone, until 3:30 a.m.  She didn't leave to take care of herself.  She didn't go get some food.  She stayed with the body of a stranger for hours.  Just because it made the family and the girlfriend feel some small measure of comfort.  She said--and this is what hit me--"I was involved, and at that point, I had a responsibility." 

Those words just really struck me.  I mean, this is going to sound cold, and it is meant to, but--from a purely practical, pragmatic point of view, her staying there for hours with someone she could do absolutely nothing for, when the authorities were already taking control of the situation and were in control, accomplishes nothing.  And yet, she recognized that, from the perspective of a family and girlfriend who were hurting, it meant everything in that moment.  She recognized that she had an obligation to them that arose simply out of the fact that they were human beings who had an emotional need that she could supply.  I'm pretty sure that if she had gone about her business of taking care of herself after those initial few phone calls, it would not have even occurred to anybody to hold it against her.  The family and girlfriend STILL would have probably been grateful for her just finding them and calling them in the first place.  But she did so much more.  Just because she felt that she had a responsibility.

I really wish more of us would take this message to heart.  We have a responsibility to one another, simply because we are human beings.  That is the embodiment of so many Biblical teachings and really just cuts to the core of how we should all try to interact with one another.  The more I thought about it, all the hopelessness over the political bickering, the finger pointing, the moralizing and politicizing just kind of fell away for me.  None of that is what is really important.  We need to just realize that we all have a responsibility to one another.  We are our brothers' (sisters') keepers. 

I'm going to try to find that interview later and have my kids listen to it and have a talk with them about it.  I think it says so much more than perhaps Heather could have imagined.
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Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 01:51:19 PM »
Jesus Bosk... That actually brought a tear to my eye.

I'm glad we have a non P/R thread for this, as I didn't want to get involved on the P/R side of things.

I am going to say that this shooting has hit me harder than I thought it would. I remember reading something on reddit as I was going to bed that night that said "Shooting on Las Vagas strip- 2 confirmed dead" and thought "well, shit." Then I woke up to "50+ dead and 500+ injured"... didn't really think much except for "this fucking sucks". Then my good friend and coworker showed me some video footage from the concert. Then it hit me. This shit was real. There was a dude, with several automatic rifles, sitting up in a hotel room shooting other humans like fish in a barrel. This wasn't somewhere out in the mid east, this was here. In the US. Someone decided to to this to a group of people out having probably the time of the year or perhaps their lives...  And then this.

I've been skimming /r/news on reddit for stories related to this, but for positive stories. Like what Bosk posted, or the marine who drove 30 people to the hospital in a "stolen" truck. Just to help me keep faith in humanity.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Lethean

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 07:24:21 PM »
That's a really great story.  My mom told me about it last night and I think it's the same story; she had seen it on the news.  That was amazing of her to do what she did and stay with him and make sure that his family didn't have to wait and wonder and hope only to find out hours or even days later.  She really gave them a gift.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 03:38:49 AM »
I get that line of reasoning, I think too the same way. Luckily I never found myself in such dire situations, but to make a more banal example, from a random and completely throaway comment to a friend, "Hey, there's this concert in a couole of weeks, I assume you're gonna be there right?" (the assumption was that she had a fling with one of the band members), then she informed me that things actually were not going so good and matters became gravely complicated when she found out she was pregnant.

We are friends but it's not that we kept in close contact each day, but having then learnt of the situation because of my random comment, I felt somehow "involved" and it just felt not right to just say "oh ops, my bad, see you at the concert, bye", so I supported her with lenghty chats on FB and Whatsapp all the way through the situation.

So I perfectly understand how finding yourself either near o a stranger fainting in the street, or witness to a car accident or in the situation Heather was plunged in, you suddenly feel you're responsible for the person that happens to have a problem near you, and it's not easy to walk away even if there's someone already taking care of the situation, or someone else anyway tht might do it soon.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 01:59:13 PM »
All I can think of is that shock, adrenaline, and the 'if I'm the victim, I hope someone does this for me' thought bring out more than what we think that ourselves (and others) are capable of.

(will add more when I have time)
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 03:22:35 PM »
Then it hit me. This shit was real. There was a dude, with several automatic rifles, sitting up in a hotel room shooting other humans like fish in a barrel. This wasn't somewhere out in the mid east, this was here. In the US. Someone decided to to this to a group of people out having probably the time of the year or perhaps their lives...  And then this.

Yea, this mass murder has hit me harder than most in the US and not just by the body count, but the fact it was a concert near the Mandalay Bay in Vegas.  I love going to Vegas, I've been to the Light nightclub at Mandalay Bay before.  I've often considered going to the pool concerts there before since 311 plays at the Mandalay Bay every summer.  I feel like that could have been me.  I watched a video last night and it's just unimaginable that it happened.  It's so sad.

Online lonestar

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 05:25:29 PM »
It's been hitting me hard as well, not for any specific reason, just it. As I posted in PR, I saw a pic of an ER room in Vegas, and the whole floor was blood stained. I couldn't hold it in anymore, just lost my shit and cried.


One story that really moved me was about a Marine Vet who stole a truck so he could shuffle victims from the venue to the hospital.

https://taskandpurpose.com/marine-vet-stole-truck-rescue-las-vegas-victims-during-shooting/

Offline cramx3

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 05:51:55 PM »
There's a lot of heroic stories, which is good because although there is evil out there, there is still plenty of good as well.

I've seen stories of people covering their loved ones to save them while they got shot.  Just crazy, stuff you see in movies.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 06:56:06 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 09:18:50 AM by DragonAttack »
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Herrick

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 06:59:50 PM »
Thanks for posting that, Bosk. I'd rather read things like this than watch the news or read social media sites where these attacks are inevitably politicized. I've seen/read comments on Facebook and other places where people almost brag about a shooter being a liberal or conservative kidna like, "See what your people did?". Disgusting  :tdwn
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 10:47:42 AM »
We have a responsibility to one another, simply because we are human beings.  That is the embodiment of so many Biblical teachings and really just cuts to the core of how we should all try to interact with one another.

I would like to respond to this, but discussion about, or reference to religion is not allowed here.  ??? ???


On another note.  People who carry out heroic acts and help others, do so because they care and have compassion.  They don't do it out of obligation or responsibility.  In other words, it's not a job or a duty.  They do it simply because they want to and that is highly commendable.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 11:09:07 AM »
We have a responsibility to one another, simply because we are human beings.  That is the embodiment of so many Biblical teachings and really just cuts to the core of how we should all try to interact with one another.

I would like to respond to this, but discussion about, or reference to religion is not allowed here.  ??? ???

Well, okay, my point in mentioning that was not to invite religious debate or to take a religious position per se.  It was simply the observation that the plethora of "love your neighbor" and "serve one another" commandments and virtues that underlie Christianity and Judaism (and many other faiths as well) were on full display in this action.  And whether one happens to subscribe to those faiths or not, I think people almost universally agree that those specific virtues are indeed commendable. 

I acknowledge that with a LOT of topics, SOME degree of politics or religion underlies them and will creep in during the discussion.  It's not that you can't mention them at all outside of P/R.  But we need to be very careful not to get into deep political/religious discussion or debate outside of that subforum.  It just isn't constructive, and a long history of experience of the mod staff here agrees with that.  If you have some relevant commentary that you feel contributes to the overall point of this thread without going too far into political/religious debate, go for it.  That's fine.  But if it gets too close to the line or crosses it, then just respond in the P/R subforum so we don't get off track in this thread, that's all.
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 03:57:29 PM »
I have an admission to make, and I'll try to keep it civil/respectful/etc.

I grew up around firearms. I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment but.. I'd be an idiot after EVERYTHING and every event up to now to not finally say that it needs to be controlled. You know what I mean.

Anyway, that post about Heather.. very humbling, indeed. People have been saying that the ones who lost their lives "woke up" to a Tom Petty concert.

I know this sounds random but this week has been emotionally draining.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 05:58:13 PM »
I have an admission to make, and I'll try to keep it civil/respectful/etc.

I grew up around firearms. I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment but.. I'd be an idiot after EVERYTHING and every event up to now to not finally say that it needs to be controlled. You know what I mean.

Anyway, that post about Heather.. very humbling, indeed. People have been saying that the ones who lost their lives "woke up" to a Tom Petty concert.

I know this sounds random but this week has been emotionally draining.


Ditto to the bolded
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

-BlobVanDam on "Scarred"

Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Las Vegas shooting
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 07:20:43 PM »
*hugs JayO* :heart