Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[bosk1]

Just bumped my vote up to 9.  I think the only thing that keeps it from being a 10 is Figaro's Whore.  Not that it's a bad thing.  Just wish they would've made that a full length song.

I'm still firmly at an 8.  I have no problem with Figaro's.  It's a nice little wanky keyboard interlude to set up Divine Addiction, and it's fine for that.  It doesn't need to be anything more.  Opus Maximus, on the other hand, bores me to tears and is the one spot that drags the album down for me.

[cramx3]

I had it at 7 and keeping it there.  It's got it's moments, but it doesn't have me wanting to listen to it really.  Their live show gets a 9 for sure though and my enjoyment of the band mostly is driven from that than the album itself.  I really do hope they do a follow up just because I think the potential is so high, just a matter of improving on the foundation.

[ErHaO]

A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail, but they sold out a 750 people venue here very early for 30 euros per ticket. I think over here they could've gone bigger, probably. I mean, it is not high, but for a new artist in this genre that seems fine/good. For reference, a band like Haken, which many consider successful and the new frontier for the genre, played their dvd show for 22 euros in a 700 people venue here in 2017. Obviously I don't know how Sons of Apollo (or bands like Haken for that matter) perform in other countries. No DT numbers, but what other prog metal focused artist does.

[DTA]

I think it’s more that they failed to really deliver anything that hasn’t been done by a million other bands. There are just so many bands that are making more interesting music that SoA doesn’t really stand out I’m any way except for its members. I just think there’s no real upward trajectory and once they realize that, why bother to keep it going?

[King Postwhore]

I'm not going to judge on one album and tour.  I'd like to see if they grow as a band.

[PepeLePew]

Been at the concert in Aschaffenburg Tuesday night and LOVED it. I can only second what others have stated before: the songs work great live, and Bumblefoot and Soto are killing it! They all seemed to have a lot of fun on stage.
The venue holds about 500-550 people and it seemed sold out to me, or at least close to. Can't tell for sure because I was standing directly at the stage, right in front of Bumblefoot. 

[tristl]

I was in Aschaffenburg too, int the front on the right side.
I thought it was oK. What did really put me of, was the long instrumental sections , what is strange because I like them with DT.
The two DT songs, they played, showed in my opinion, Bumblefoot is a great guitarist, but he is not Petrucci, the same thing on bass and to all the critics of JLB, he does the songs more justice than Mr. Soto. I mean, they are all great musicians, but hearing them play made me miss DT
It always put a smile on my face, when MP tried to direct everything from behind his drumkit,
I never liked that when I was at DT concerts, much nicer now 
I am very much looking forward seeing DT next year with a new album and still hope they will do a nice blueray of TA somewhere in time

[bosk1]

A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

I don't think we can really go off of album sales, because unless you are a mega-pop star, those numbers are way down for everybody these days.  So we just have to go off of live shows.  I know Mike seems to be a pretty savvy businessman, so I am sure the contract guarantees from these gigs are decent.  It's just a question of whether they sold well enough to get good bookings a second time around.  And that is hard to say.  I have heard that some gigs have sold well, and others have not.  I know the one I saw them at did not sell all that well, and I have heard similar stories in other places.  But I have also heard that they packed people in in other places. 

I would guess that, at the end of the day, they did "okay."  Not great.  Not bad.  But just "okay."  Is that good enough?  Hard to say.  Obviously, with all the press releases about how this band was going to take the world by storm, the results may seem disappointing to some.  From all the hype, I'm sure some people expected a bigger, more extensive tour, and one that would happen immediately after the album release.  So I think some people are projecting their expectations onto the band and feeling like the band is somewhat of a failure.  But ultimately, we don't know what the band's actual expectations were, and whether where the band is now has come close enough to reasonably meeting those expectations.  But they've gotten some decent exposure and some pretty good festival bookings.  Maybe not quite as extensive as some would have thought.  But more than enough to generate interest in another album and tour cycle, which I know I personally am looking forward to. 

[cramx3]

A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

By some people, it would seem to me that would be the band themselves.  I don't think anyone would consider this band and their tour a failure if they hadn't set their own expectations, and therefore some of the fan base's expectations, so high. 

[bosk1]

A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

By some people, it would seem to me that would be the band themselves.  I don't think anyone would consider this band and their tour a failure if they hadn't set their own expectations, and therefore some of the fan base's expectations, so high. 

Well, yes and no.  Did they set expectations high?  Absolutely.  But what band is going to come out and say, "Well, you know, we've got this new project we put together, and we don't want to oversell it, so we're just hoping for a mediocre run"?  Especially with personalities like Derek, Mike, and Jeff.  Of course they are going to have high expectations, and of course they are going to puff about it.  But I don't think that is really a problem.

Now, can we say that Derek went too far?  IMO, yeah, absolutely.  To the point of coming off as a childish idiot that I have no desire to ever support again.  But that's kind of a separate issue from whether or not the band is actually doing well.

[PepeLePew]

The two DT songs, they played, showed in my opinion, Bumblefoot is a great guitarist, but he is not Petrucci, the same thing on bass and to all the critics of JLB, he does the songs more justice than Mr. Soto. I mean, they are all great musicians, but hearing them play made me miss DT

Agreed on this, Bumblefoot is not JP. But I didn't expect them to copy the DT songs 1:1, so I wasn't disappointed. Looking forward to seeing them again on their next tour, when they have another album under their belt and can fill the whole setlist with own material (keeping fingers crossed...). I am not too keen on any band doing covers, but with only one album to chose from, what can they do...

I am very much looking forward seeing DT next year with a new album and still hope they will do a nice blueray of TA somewhere in time

Also agreed on this! Can't wait!

[MirrorMask]

Looking forward to seeing them again on their next tour, when they have another album under their belt and can fill the whole setlist with own material (keeping fingers crossed...).

I'm quite positive that in an interview MP said exactly this.

[Stadler]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig. 

[Stadler]

I had it at 7 and keeping it there.  It's got it's moments, but it doesn't have me wanting to listen to it really.  Their live show gets a 9 for sure though and my enjoyment of the band mostly is driven from that than the album itself.  I really do hope they do a follow up just because I think the potential is so high, just a matter of improving on the foundation.

I told Cram to write that.     

[goo-goo]

Adding more to Bosk1's comments:
-Europe is a better market for MP and the metal/prog/rock genres in general. If they are doing good in Europe, they will probably continue. If they do poorly in the European market, their future will be more doubtful.

Not sure how big the Sheehan, Bumblefoot, Soto and Sherinian names are in Europe. MP's name and following is decent in Europe.

[Madman Shepherd]

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird. 

[MirrorMask]

That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

[Stadler]

That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate. 

[Stadler]

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird.

I'd buy a record by Roses-A-Go-Go. 

[Orbert]

I would download it, listen, and probably laugh a bit.

[Ben_Jamin]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

You know, this goes hand in hand with him having certain genre bands. Like Amob his metal band, Flying Colors his poppy, Transatlantic his prog.

I bet, if he did a project without any genre specifics and released whatever musical genre he jams, people would enjoy that more. But then, he needs people that can compose great songs.

[Stadler]

I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.   You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.

[KevShmev]

I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.  You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.

I don't think that is true.  I can't remember if it was Petrucci or Portnoy who said it, but one of them described Liquid Dreams (from the second LTE record) as a song they could never do on a DT record, and even Rudess has said he writes a lot of stuff that he never presents to the band because he knows it would never be viewed as "DT music," for lack of a better term.

[TAC]

Right Kev, and in MP's Score Commentary, during the outro to Innocence Faded, he says something along the lines of "Our fans would never let us get away with this kind of thing"... I'm paraphrasing of course.

I remember when I heard that I thought, "Are you f'n crazy? That's one of the best minute and a half in your catalog!!"

[Stadler]

I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.  You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.

I don't think that is true.  I can't remember if it was Petrucci or Portnoy who said it, but one of them described Liquid Dreams (from the second LTE record) as a song they could never do on a DT record, and even Rudess has said he writes a lot of stuff that he never presents to the band because he knows it would never be viewed as "DT music," for lack of a better term.

I think we can both be right; that they incorporate multiple genres - or better yet, live in the spaces between genres - doesn't mean that EVERY genre has to be represented.  At that point in their career they were sort of in the middle of the "concept record" phase; Scenes, Six Degrees, Octavarium...   Continuity is not the same as "genre cliches"; look at Rush.

[ytserush]

8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.

Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

Just speaking for myself here, but pretty much anything that I would greatly enjoy (Flying Colors, Transatlantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, Neal Morse Band...) probably doesn't come close to turning any kind of profit. Dig the Winery Dogs too (more so live) and I'm sure that was the best shot out of everything post split (who knows what's really going on there either?)

So the revenue has to come from somewhere. This problem isn't specific to just him and I don't really envy the decisions that need to me made.

I'm actually kind of excited about the Steel Drum Rush tribute Mike's gotten himself involved with. I just hope many of the covers are not  the usual suspects. Again, This isn't going to sell any where near even 100,000 copies, but I'm going to enjoy it just the same.

[ytserush]

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird.

Humans like their familiarity. Sometimes you just have to fight through it.

I agree with this to a certain extent but context has changed quite a bit over the last 30 years and it was on the decline even then sliding into specialized niches that had little to no chance of crossing over.

If Mike never left Dream Theater , I'd guess the band would be in a similar position to where they are now....fortunate enough to have a somewhat sustainable fan base  (before they had to become their own public relations firm)  to continue to make a modest living making music. But even every member of the current band is involved to varying degrees with their own projects. More difficult now then ever to make a living off off music unless you want to live that life on the road and even then there are no guarantees.

[ytserush]

That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate.

Difference there is that at least there was some long term investment in those bands.  Any investment these days would come from a fanbase that may or may not have already been cultivated.

[Adami]

That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate.

Difference there is that at least there was some long term investment in those bands.  Any investment these days would come from a fanbase that may or may not have already been cultivated.

Plus those bands were in their 20's (or so) and dedicated to one band, and MP and co are in their 50's/60's and dedicated to multiple bands at once. 

[ErHaO]

I do think you can build a brand at a later stage. Look at Steven Wilson's solo career. In the last couple of years, his shows have doubled in crowd size and he has signed with a bigger label. And I think that all started with good word of mouth, upon which he build further. Mainstream succes is very unlikely, but it is very unlikely at any age, especially in the prog/rock/metal world.



I do think Sons of Apollo has a chance to grow and cultivate a decent fanbase, but first they have to maintain a healthy core fanbase. They sound like an inbetween prog metal and hard rock, which in my opinion makes them more accessible than most prog metal bands. Thus, I can see them winning some fans that do not necessarily like bands like Dream Theater and the likes.

Some steps I think that would work:
-Release a second album somewhere in 2019 and address the common criticisms the debut had.
-Maybe do some collaborations with other artists that give them exposure to fans of other artists, preferably outside of prog metal.
-Maybe do a limited tour as a co-headliner or special guest. It is too bad they missed a couple of festivals this summer, as a band like this needs those.
-Improve social media presence. Have Derek not say anything ever again on social media in regards to this band, aside from standard promotional posts. Keep Mike in check and have him focus on his enthusiasm for music, rather than him reacting to criticism. And have Jeff and Bumblefoot be the figures that talk to the media. I do think overall online presence of Sons of Apollo would be a bit more prominent if they had all their core fans on board from the get go. In early stages, you need all the positivity you can get.

And then see how things are moving along.

[Orbert]

That all sounds great.  You should be their manager.

In all seriousness, yeah, that sounds exactly like what they should be doing/planning for now, 2019, and beyond.  Building a band/brand is never easy, but it sure as hell helps if you have a solid plan in mind, and realistic goals.  Nothing happens overnight.  These guys have all seen some success, some have seen more and some have seen it more recently, but it can be easy to lose sight of how long it took to get there, and the setbacks along the way.

[Ravenfoul]

I mean this is all armchair BS by me. But, for the record, I enjoyed that first album some, I just haven't come back to it... like ever. I would consider sitting back down and listening to Lost In Oblivion and Divine Addiction mostly. Maybe Opus Maximus, even though I wasn't blown away by it. It wasn't a bad album, but it definitely didn't sound as inspired as you would think.

Still, I hold on to hope that #2 will bring better things. The real question is, will it be the same mix of prog / rock? Or will it lean more one way than the other. I still think DS can write some good prog and or fusion (check out Oceana sometime) like the dude is talented, even despite his dramatic attitude. Bumblefoot/Jeff are pretty great, but I have this bizarre feeling if anyone is going to get replaced it would be Billy. It may sound stupid but I honestly would have preferred if 1 or 2 members were not super established in the business. Look at all the talent out there, why not take a second and scope some out like Neal Morse did with Eric Gillette? Bill was a pretty fantastic albeit older find as well.

So yeah, I think every single member is going to have to stay hungry to make the band something more than just a fun get-together. Because they do have the potential to make something cool.

[Fritzinger]

JSS posted this on Facebook the other day:

Had an absolutely chilled day off here in Stuttgart, 2 hours at the gym and hibernating in silence within the confines of my hotel room...tomorrow we countdown the final two Sons Of Apollo shows for the Psychotic Symphony CD!! Stuttgart, then Köln then HOME!!! It's all bittersweet, this year has been one hell of a ride but as we'll be back in the studio for album 2 in the next few months (no release or tour until '20 though), we also have the live album/blu-ray from our Bulgaria show to get mixed, you haven't heard the last from us by a long shot!!

https://www.facebook.com/JeffScottSoto/photos/a.10151879277263192/10156135384103192/?type=3&theater

Looks like we won't get another album until 2020. Which is absolutely fine with me, I just wonder why.

[Schurftkut]

they already explained JSS has his TSO obligations, and they want to release the record and right after tour it heavily. Because the other members also have tours planned for 2019, they have to wait for 2020 for JSS to finish the TSO later in the year.

[Architeuthis]

It may sound stupid but I honestly would have preferred if 1 or 2 members were not super established in the business. Look at all the talent out there, why not take a second and scope some out like Neal Morse did with Eric Gillette?

And boy did that pay off, Eric Gillette is amazing and a good secondary frontman. Bill is a great on the keys but also an all around great musician. Same with Randy on bass.
 Neal Morse is obviously a really cool guy and is good at spotting talent outside the business.