Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[faizoff]

Mike's answered a bunch of SoA q's on his twitter right now, of course, I took the chance to ask him about the new Blade Runner movie instead.

[KevShmev]

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Just curious - don't mean for this to be an invitation to yet another MP-bashing session. But MP's insistence on being known as the leader, the man in charge, etc. for a band where he clearly doesn't write most of the music (arrangements, sure) struck me as quite unusual.

...maybe Noel Gallagher in the case of Oasis?

I don't even think Steven Wilson is a good example, since he was never so brash as to publicly declare, "I am the leader! I run this band! I am in charge!"

And about MP being "known" as the leader... I think this comes more from his recent past. He was burned out in overseeing everything in DT, he was "just the drummer" with many projects, and now he's back to directing things. I assume it's more of an information for his longtime fans rather than a sudden burst of ego.

I don't think this alleged burst of ego would be sudden.

Let's face it, I don't think there is a bigger Mike Portnoy fan on the planet than Mike Portnoy himself.

Mike's answered a bunch of SoA q's on his twitter right now, of course, I took the chance to ask him about the new Blade Runner movie instead.

It's cool that he does that, but it's always amazing to me the unimaginative questions fans ask.

[noxon]

https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/09/30/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony/

[nobloodyname]

https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/09/30/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony/

Good read (nice apostrophe abuse here and there ), thank you for writing and sharing. I broadly agree with your opinion on each song. God of the Sun is my personal highlight. I just wish the album contained more songs like it.

[SystematicThought]

It's cool that he does that, but it's always amazing to me the unimaginative questions fans ask.

And he usually always answers those ones too and doesn't answer interesting ones

[nobloodyname]

Edit: Never mind.

(Can't work out how to delete a post.)

[RodrigoAltaf]

Boy, how times have changed here in DTF...in 2015 I posted in the Maiden thread the following: "the album has leaked", referring to The Book of Souls. I was banned for 90 days just for that!!!

[Sycsa]

Boy, how times have changed here in DTF...in 2015 I posted in the Maiden thread the following: "the album has leaked", referring to The Book of Souls. I was banned for 90 days just for that!!!

I don't think that this is the case, probably the mods just haven't been here yet. It's Saturday, they're out with the family enjoying a quiet little picnic.

[faizoff]

I could be wrong but all the people talking about the album are most likely reviewers and were given the album by the label. Don't think there's a review embargo either since MP himself has been tweeting them out.

[Madman Shepherd]

Here's a new interview with Mike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=h5rBPxl-UMc

Thanks, that was a nice interview.

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Just curious - don't mean for this to be an invitation to yet another MP-bashing session. But MP's insistence on being known as the leader, the man in charge, etc. for a band where he clearly doesn't write most of the music (arrangements, sure) struck me as quite unusual.

...maybe Noel Gallagher in the case of Oasis?

I thought it was interesting that he broke down just how exactly he was the leader and it still doesn't seem like he really does that much more than the other guys.  Just that he gets final say?

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"?

Iced Earth
Stratovarius (before he left)
Nightwish
Opeth
Megadeth
Evanescence


That's just off the top of my head and not nearly complete.

I don't know about most of those but with Megadeth, Dave has been the only consistent member and owns the name.

In Iced Earth, Jon is the only original member and owns the name.

Not great examples. 

[Adami]

He asked for examples of bands with decisive leaders. My examples are of that. Even if they don’t match up with SoA.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Dire Straits are an example of that.

[ReaperKK]

Completely agree on the Dire Straits comment.

[The Walrus]

Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato. Jon Schaffer and Timo Tolkki basically commanded the lyrical and musical composition of their respective bands. Tuomas steers the ship in Nightwish. Tony Kakko in Sonata Arctica is another one, he writes almost every bit of the music and all the lyrics.

[Adami]

How did I forget my favorite band? Pain of Salvation!

[Madman Shepherd]

Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

Peace and Love brought up an interesting thought.  I personally would like to know if there are any other bands with original members who has a member who may not be the main song writer that insists on being referred to as the band leader. 

[Zook]

The bass sounds like the snarling pig. Kinda weird.

[faizoff]

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.

[The Walrus]

Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

True. I have nothing to back that up either, other than Sons of Liberty being the 'true' solo project rather than IE (although for all intents and purposes they might as well be the same outfit). I just took a few glances back over the early albums' writing credits and even then he dominated the song credits, so I suppose he was the de facto leader even then

[Peace and Love]

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steven_wilson_why_i_ended_porcupine_tree.html

[Madman Shepherd]

Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

True. I have nothing to back that up either, other than Sons of Liberty being the 'true' solo project rather than IE (although for all intents and purposes they might as well be the same outfit). I just took a few glances back over the early albums' writing credits and even then he dominated the song credits, so I suppose he was the de facto leader even then

...and Dave Mustaine dominated the writing of Megadeth since the beginning but I don't know if he ever was vocal about being the band leader.  De facto leader, sure.  Proclaimed?  Not so sure. 

[Adami]

So it's gone from bands that have had a decisive leader, to bands with all original members who have a non-writing musician in the band that has publicly proclaimed himself to be the leader?

I'll admit I don't have much for that.

[faizoff]

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steven_wilson_why_i_ended_porcupine_tree.html

Thanks for that! so weird I never came across that interview before. It's a shame, all this time I've been thinking that they were on a really extended hiatus with a possibility of coming back much later once SW has had his fill of exploring other musical directions.

[Adami]

Anyone else notice that Derek looks a whole lot like a slightly younger Paul Stanley?

[ReaperKK]

Yes, I thought a much tanner younger Paul Stanley.

[Madman Shepherd]

So it's gone from bands that have had a decisive leader, to bands with all original members who have a non-writing musician in the band that has publicly proclaimed himself to be the leader?

I'll admit I don't have much for that.

I would even settle for *some* original members. 

Not trying to nitpick but I do think this situation is a tad unusual. 

Tony Iommi is an interesting case.  He was the band leader in many ways but I don't think he ever called himself that.  He handled a lot of the business and even when they first started he was the one that got them to dedicate themselves to rehearsal and would borrow his dad's van to haul them around.  When Ozzy was fired and Bill quit responsibilities were more evenly divided now that Dio was writing songs and lyrics but Geezer and Tony still owned the name.  Once Geezer quit and he was the sole owner, he was clearly the leader. 

Just haven't seen it done the way SoA is doing it. 

[Adami]

But it's hard to compare SoA to long running bands and their members because SoA doesn't even have their first album out yet and have only played one show, kind of.

If it 10 years or whatever, they have the same members and MP is still the leader, then we can talk.

Also, DS seems to be just as much the leader in this band as MP. If not more so.

[Madman Shepherd]

But it's hard to compare SoA to long running bands and their members because SoA doesn't even have their first album out yet and have only played one show, kind of.

If it 10 years or whatever, they have the same members and MP is still the leader, then we can talk.

Also, DS seems to be just as much the leader in this band as MP. If not more so.

This is my point though.  Over time I think it is more natural for one person to take on a leadership role.  But also, like you said, Derek seems to lead just as much if not more so it is a tad unusual for someone to say they are a leader. 

So far Derek and Mike started the band but Mike picked the other members.  Derek and Mike and Bumblefoot wrote most of the music although Derek and Bumble look like the main songwriters.  It looks like Jeff wrote most of the lyrics.   Mike had the name Apollo floating around but Derek added "Sons of".  They both produced it although Derek was more involved when it came to recording the vocals.  The album name came from one of Jeff's lyrics.  They haven't mentioned whose idea it was for the album cover.  We have no setlists which I'm sure would be mostly Mike's call but I doubt he would ignore any input from band members. 

So at the very least I would say Derek and Mike are the band leaders.  In the most recent interview he said when it comes to production they are more 50/50.  I just don't see what else Mike does that would make him more of a band leader than Derek. 

Honest theories welcome.  Are there some extra responsibilities I'm missing?

[Adami]

Yea, I don't see MP as being a big leader in this.

Thought he wasn't the leader of DT either. He just was more outspoken.

He said he wanted a band where he had a similar to DT and this sounds like it. He does his drums and gives ideas on structure and a general direction and the rest of the guys do everything else.

[Madman Shepherd]

In DT he definitely had a bigger role from naming the albums to special concerts to official bootlegs, etc.  I don't necessarily think that makes him a band leader, either.  More of a creative director if we had to put a title to it.   

With SoA he doesn't even have those responsibilities... at least not yet.  So I don't see what there is to lead in a bigger capacity than what he and Derek are doing. 

[Herrick]

2b. With regard to "leaked" material, you are not allowed to discuss the leaking or sharing of an album by any artist, or that an album has leaked. In addition to the above, with regard to Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.  For other bands, you can in most cases discuss the content of the leaked material as long as you do not reference the leak, where you obtained the material, or sharing the leaked material.

I don't know how to interpret this tbh. If it were just the first paragraph, it'd be straightforward, no leak discussion at all. But then the last paragraph muddles up the situation. For all intents and purposes, it's not possible to discuss the content of leaked material without at least indirectly referencing the leak itself, since it is known that the given album hasn't yet been released at that point. That's the definition of "leak," piracy before release. This seems like a paradoxical rule.

Yeah it does seem to be a contradiction. I think we can talk about the music but nothing else that references the L Word? I'll just play it safe and say nothing until a mod clarifies it...

[noxon]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669711004454&set=a.10152002648949454.1073741829.509689453&type=3&theater

Well, okay then

[Cyclopssss]

Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 

[Cyclopssss]

Oh and this is what Derek had to say:


Derek Sherinian Their anai (anus plural form) will soon heal, and will soon welcome the bravado willingly!

[Peace and Love]

Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...