Sherinian poking fun at Jordan?

[Samsara]

I wonder why he feels the need to take shots at Rudess like that.

My guess is that he feels inferior. He does not feel it was justified that DT fired him, he made that clear in the recent Eddie Trunk interview, so maybe it makes him feel better to criticize the guy who they replaced him with.  Whatever the case, it's very childish.

It IS childish, and my feelings on the matter echo what you've said here. It is really a shame, because he does have a point -- it was NOT justified that DT fired him. But, DT (including Mike) wanted Jordan first, and when he was available, they shat on DS to get him. So, I do understand DS could harbor some hurt feelings toward DT. But obviously, he's cool with Mike, and was cool with the rest of them to perform with them post-firing.

Personally, I would have preferred they stuck with Derek on keyboards, as Jordan isn't my cup of tea. But it has been 20 years. I moved on, and Derek did too. If Derek is serious about all these slights, and it is not just him trying to be funny, then I'd say this "reunion" with Portnoy is the worst thing for him. Because all he is doing is destroying two decades of professional goodwill he built by staying classy until this.

I've pre-ordered Sons of Apollo. I am looking forward to it. But if this is how Derek and Mike are going to be on social media and moving forward, I'll have to reconsider supporting them. I've done it for bands I was much more invested in when I felt like they said or did things I don't approve of, and so I can easily do it for a brand new prog band I've only heard snippets of (I have not listened to the two songs).

Success these days is built on goodwill with fans and getting them to come out and see you perform. Take the Queensryche fallout. Don't tell me the turnout of that affair was based just on the lawyers. It certainly wasn't. Public perception, which was driven by social media and message boards, was a key component in that whole affair.

So, if Sons of Apollo wants to do well and make a name, I think DS and MP may want to reverse course a bit, and stop sinking themselves before they've even left port.

[goo-goo]

What sucks about this is that JR is probably the closest to retiring from Dream Theater due to his age. Derek could have burned a bridge if he was asked to return to DT if Jordan decided to hang his keys up. Just for the record, this is all speculation on my part.

Apart from Derek, Diego Tejeida from Haken would be a suitable replacement once Jordan calls it a career.

[Madman Shepherd]

I wonder why he feels the need to take shots at Rudess like that.

My guess is that he feels inferior. He does not feel it was justified that DT fired him, he made that clear in the recent Eddie Trunk interview, so maybe it makes him feel better to criticize the guy who they replaced him with.  Whatever the case, it's very childish.

Yet it was the guy sitting next to him that probably had the final say.

Not to rehash a lot of old garbage that's been ran into the ground on this site, but I'm guessing that MP's power within the DT entity has been greatly over-exaggerated. Raise the Knife lyrics being my soul piece of evidence from that time period. Speculate all you want, but he wasn't omnipotent within their decision making structure

No, but he was one of at least 3. You know who wasnt? Jordan Rudess. ehh, play ground shit that is easily seen who the instigator here is but whatever.

I won't argue that he wasn't involved. My point being that it doesn't lie squarely on his shoulders. People on this forum (and the old one that was part of the official site) have attributed entirely too much of the things that went on with DT to him during those years. Was it because he was the most "in your face" member, and handled most of their public stuff? Almost certainly. However, the fact remains that he was only a single vote. I mention Raise the Knife because one of the verses deals with him losing out on a vote.

Now, was he probably full of himself when he claimed that he didn't vote DS out in favor of Jordan? I'll buy that with no hesitation. But he couldn't make that happen alone.

Sorry you are missing my point. MP is allowing the guy he/dt fired to talk shit about the guy he/dt hired because now he too  is no longer part of DT. Of his own volition.  Sour grapes and misery loves company and all that.. These 2 are now feeding each other with this stuff. Don't they have a new band with an album coming out. I remember something about that but then they started tweeeting this and facebooking that. BUT its the fans that are the trolls.
Eh, just want to add the good saying "do not bite the hand that feeds you"    even burgers derek.

He's allowing him to talk smack? He might not be asking him to stop, but "allowing him"? That's a perfect example of what I've been saying. Mike Portnoy in no way, shape or form can control another person's actions unless it's one of his children. Could MP be goading him into saying these things? Maybe. Could MP be asking him to say these things? Maybe. But allowing him? 

Well, when you're the leader, and you've made it clear you're the leader, and take a lot of opportunities to tell people you're the leader, and someone that you lead keeps doing something that may or may not be in good taste then yeah you're allowing it. 

[Dave_Manchester]

What sucks about this is that JR is probably the closest to retiring from Dream Theater due to his age. Derek could have burned a bridge if he was asked to return to DT if Jordan decided to hang his keys up. Just for the record, this is all speculation on my part.

I don't want Rudess to leave the band but what you've suggested here is an interesting scenario to think about. Jordan announces his retirement from the band and Dream Theater invite Derek to rejoin them 1 week before the Sons of Apollo tour kicks off. They could film it like for their replacement drummer documentary, only this time have Mangini and Labrie make the call inviting Derek to join the band, and Derek can shout with joy and relief while MP sits in the background asking him who's on the phone.

[gzarruk]

What sucks about this is that JR is probably the closest to retiring from Dream Theater due to his age. Derek could have burned a bridge if he was asked to return to DT if Jordan decided to hang his keys up. Just for the record, this is all speculation on my part.

Apart from Derek, Diego Tejeida from Haken would be a suitable replacement once Jordan calls it a career.

I think Diego is a much more suitable replacement for DT than Derek. I think he combines Jordan’s and Derek’s styles very well, while also letting his own style shine. Also, I don’t think Derek can play Jordan’s keyboard lines, he’s not that good. Diego, on the other hand, has proved he can do it perfectly on the MP TSF tour. And don’t get me started on Derek’s character issues...

[The Walrus]

What sucks about this is that JR is probably the closest to retiring from Dream Theater due to his age. Derek could have burned a bridge if he was asked to return to DT if Jordan decided to hang his keys up. Just for the record, this is all speculation on my part.

I don't want Rudess to leave the band but what you've suggested here is an interesting scenario to think about. Jordan announces his retirement from the band and Dream Theater invite Derek to rejoin them 1 week before the Sons of Apollo tour kicks off. They could film it like for their replacement drummer documentary, only this time have Mangini and Labrie make the call inviting Derek to join the band, and Derek can shout with joy and relief while MP sits in the background asking him who's on the phone.

 

I honestly don't think Derek could hack Jordan's parts anyway. They'd have to really restrict their live set. There are very few people I think of when I think 'irreplaceable' band members, and Jordan is usually the first name to come to mind, even moreso than people who were founders of their respective bands. Jordan's playing, his choice of instruments, and his songwriting are irreplaceable to DT at this point.

[bosk1]

This isn't a knock on Jordan AT ALL, but I wouldn't consider him irreplaceable.  Yeah, he's an integral member of the band, and perhaps the second most..."important" (for lack of a better term) member of the band.  But there are amazing keyboardists and composers out there.  And even if they had to make some tweaks to some songs in the catalog and reproduce them slightly differently live, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could carry on without Jordan without missing a step.  Again, that's not to take anything away from Jordan whatsoever.  But almost anybody can be replaced if necessity dictates.  There's a lot of talent out there.

[Herrick]

I won't argue that he wasn't involved. My point being that it doesn't lie squarely on his shoulders. People on this forum (and the old one that was part of the official site) have attributed entirely too much of the things that went on with DT to him during those years. Was it because he was the most "in your face" member, and handled most of their public stuff? Almost certainly. However, the fact remains that he was only a single vote. I mention Raise the Knife because one of the verses deals with him losing out on a vote.

Now, was he probably full of himself when he claimed that he didn't vote DS out in favor of Jordan? I'll buy that with no hesitation. But he couldn't make that happen alone.

I think people say that because Mike was the one that would say, and still says, that he was "the leader" of DT and always spoke of how much control he had there (wether this is true or not).

Of course he wasn't the only one pushing in that direction, but he was clearly very happy with Jordan being brought in and, at the time, didn't seem to care too much about Derek being fired, I mean... just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT3DsCb-u4M

To be fair, I wouldn't expect Portnoy or any other band member to be crying about Sherinian during Ruddess' official Welcome to Dream Theater video.

[gzarruk]

This isn't a knock on Jordan AT ALL, but I wouldn't consider him irreplaceable.  Yeah, he's an integral member of the band, and perhaps the second most..."important" (for lack of a better term) member of the band.  But there are amazing keyboardists and composers out there.  And even if they had to make some tweaks to some songs in the catalog and reproduce them slightly differently live, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could carry on without Jordan without missing a step.  Again, that's not to take anything away from Jordan whatsoever.  But almost anybody can be replaced if necessity dictates.  There's a lot of talent out there.

Agree with all of this. And, again, I think Diego would be the perfect fit if Jordan ever decides to retire.

IMO, the only "irreplaceable" DT member is Petrucci. Even Myung could be replaced and it wouldn't be too much of a deal.

I won't argue that he wasn't involved. My point being that it doesn't lie squarely on his shoulders. People on this forum (and the old one that was part of the official site) have attributed entirely too much of the things that went on with DT to him during those years. Was it because he was the most "in your face" member, and handled most of their public stuff? Almost certainly. However, the fact remains that he was only a single vote. I mention Raise the Knife because one of the verses deals with him losing out on a vote.

Now, was he probably full of himself when he claimed that he didn't vote DS out in favor of Jordan? I'll buy that with no hesitation. But he couldn't make that happen alone.

I think people say that because Mike was the one that would say, and still says, that he was "the leader" of DT and always spoke of how much control he had there (wether this is true or not).

Of course he wasn't the only one pushing in that direction, but he was clearly very happy with Jordan being brought in and, at the time, didn't seem to care too much about Derek being fired, I mean... just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT3DsCb-u4M

To be fair, I wouldn't expect Portnoy or any other band member to be crying about Sherinian during Ruddess' official Welcome to Dream Theater video.

Of course not. I posted the video because it's Mike basically saying the're better than they could possibly imagine, with Jordan on the band.

[theanalogkid7]

And here it is on video!

https://youtu.be/b-vcUEf0v8E?t=14s

[keys76]

Damn, that is pathetic....

[DT2003]

This isn't a knock on Jordan AT ALL, but I wouldn't consider him irreplaceable.  Yeah, he's an integral member of the band, and perhaps the second most..."important" (for lack of a better term) member of the band.  But there are amazing keyboardists and composers out there.  And even if they had to make some tweaks to some songs in the catalog and reproduce them slightly differently live, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could carry on without Jordan without missing a step.  Again, that's not to take anything away from Jordan whatsoever.  But almost anybody can be replaced if necessity dictates.  There's a lot of talent out there.

Agree with all of this. And, again, I think Diego would be the perfect fit if Jordan ever decides to retire.

IMO, the only "irreplaceable" DT member is Petrucci. Even Myung could be replaced and it wouldn't be too much of a deal.

After seeing The Shattered Fortress a couple of weeks ago, I would say Diego could easily replace Jordan and Eric could easily replace John if ever needed. Those guys absolutely nailed those songs. I think if JP left the band that would be it for DT, but if he left and the band wanted to go on, they certainly could.

[erwinrafael]

The question about Diego and Eric is whether they can compose parts like JP and JR.

[Adami]

The question about Diego and Eric is whether they can compose parts like JP and JR.

Exactly. If DT were only about touring old material, then sure, but people listen to DT for their writing.

[PetFish]

The question about Diego and Eric is whether they can compose parts like JP and JR.

No kidding.  There's a million Youtube players out there that can note-for-note play anything Dream Theater has written, but nobody wants to listen to any of their originals (assuming they even have any).  It's not just about skill or "can someone play it", they have to actually be able to write also.

As an aside, all these note-for-note guitar players... I'd love it if they'd just jam over a blues track for a few minutes but I'm willing to bet many of them can't cuz all they know is how to copy other music by simply playing it over and over forever.

[KevShmev]

Even though his tendency to overplay at times drive me nuts, Rudess is still pretty incredible, and is a far better composer and player than Sherinian.  It really isn't close.

[pcs90]

And here it is on video!

https://youtu.be/b-vcUEf0v8E?t=14s

Man, I'm late to the party (have not read any of DS's comments as of yet; I never look on Twitter for anything lol) but that really was uncalled for.

I understand the annoyance with JR constantly advertising different products and forcing them into songs. I really don't care for it either but come on, the majority of what he plays is still on a regular keyboard.

Does he make some musical decisions I think are terrible? Oh yes. But so does Derek. And I can tell you, from their solo albums, Jordan has many more memorable songs, sections and solos than Derek does. Most of the highlights of Derek's solo albums are actually the guitarists! I do enjoy all of Oceana and a few tracks off each of the other albums but Jordan's stuff on Feeding the Wheel and Rhythm of Time has a lot more depth and complexity; you can listen to those tracks over and over and discover new details within them.

[the keyboard wizard]

Please someone turn it into a gif :
https://youtu.be/aH9A6OCXomk?t=7m18s

[SeRoX]

I have to admit I don't like Jordan's input since SC, all these machines, unnatural sounds (whatever you call them) he brings to the table is not my cup of tea but doesn't mean he is bad. He is damn talented and no match for Derek.

Whatever if it is meant to be joke or being funny by Derek. One is just fine but repating it more time, making hastags and filming this makes you ridiculous. I suggest both MP and him change his band name to the Midlife Crisis. Suits well.

[noxon]

the bebot was so influential that they built an entire character around it in the new star wars trilogy. Just sayin'

[MirrorMask]

the bebot was so influential that they built an entire character around it in the new star wars trilogy. Just sayin'

Wasn't that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Bebot and Rocksteady





 

[IDontNotDoThings]

Please someone turn it into a gif :
https://youtu.be/aH9A6OCXomk?t=7m18s

I paused on this frame.



Caption challenge: go!

[noxon]

the bebot was so influential that they built an entire character around it in the new star wars trilogy. Just sayin'

Wasn't that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Bebot and Rocksteady





 

That would be Bebop

But I'm actually serious. BB-8 is "voiced" by Bill Hader playing the bebot app on an iphone, the same app used for the solo in ARoP.

[SwedishGoose]

Please someone turn it into a gif :
https://youtu.be/aH9A6OCXomk?t=7m18s

I paused on this frame.



Caption challenge: go!

I thought of a song by Kaprekar's Constant but it's called Four-Faced Liar..

[The Walrus]

Wow, what the fuck - did anybody see this comment on the SoA YouTube video (the one where Derek said 'cheesy ass gadgets')?

They haven't been silent. They've put out three releases of complete and utter dogshit.

I've already got this record and it's superb. The Astonishing is a disgrace to the prog genre and I wish somebody would hunt down and kill Mike Mangini right now.

Good lord... you can dislike the music, okay, but wtf?!

[MirrorMask]

Keyboard lions. The web is full of them. Pity their ignorance and move on. (Even though a report to YouTube would be more than warranted)

[Hourglass Prison]

Wow, what the fuck - did anybody see this comment on the SoA YouTube video (the one where Derek said 'cheesy ass gadgets')?

They haven't been silent. They've put out three releases of complete and utter dogshit.

I've already got this record and it's superb. The Astonishing is a disgrace to the prog genre and I wish somebody would hunt down and kill Mike Mangini right now.

Good lord... you can dislike the music, okay, but wtf?!

Jesus Christ, some people are assholes. Sounds like quite the well adjusted individual.

[PetFish]

Wow, what the fuck - did anybody see this comment on the SoA YouTube video (the one where Derek said 'cheesy ass gadgets')?

They haven't been silent. They've put out three releases of complete and utter dogshit.

I've already got this record and it's superb. The Astonishing is a disgrace to the prog genre and I wish somebody would hunt down and kill Mike Mangini right now.

Good lord... you can dislike the music, okay, but wtf?!

IB4 MP presses the "like" button.

[Mladen]

He's just trying to provoke the Dream Theater fan base. Of course that's not the smart thing to do (HE is the one losing fans, money and appreciation by doing this), but just ignore him and let it pass.

[Bertielee]

I honestly don't see what good is gonna come out of it.

B.Lee

[DT2003]

Absolutely no good. He's actually turned a lot of people off by doing this, myself included. In all honesty it's been nothing but drama with this band from the beginning. Let's not forget how Mike teased this band months ago and then when fans started putting two and two together based on what members of this band posted on social media, Mike blasted the fans and shut down all talk/speculation of the band on his forum. Between that and all the crap going on now, my interest in this band has diminished greatly. That plus the fact that the music so far sounds nothing like they described.

[Bertielee]

Absolutely no good. He's actually turned a lot of people off by doing this, myself included. In all honesty it's been nothing but drama with this band from the beginning. Let's not forget how Mike teased this band months ago and then when fans started putting two and two together based on what members of this band posted on social media, Mike blasted the fans and shut down all talk/speculation of the band on his forum. Between that and all the crap going on now, my interest in this band has diminished greatly. That plus the fact that the music so far sounds nothing like they described.

Agreed on all parts but the music. I don't like it not because it's not prog but because I don't find it to be good music, or at least not to my liking. But I get where you're coming from : when you advertise something as prog metal, the songs released should at least be prog metal. Otherwise, it's a lie.

B.Lee

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

And here it is on video!

https://youtu.be/b-vcUEf0v8E?t=14s

MP always spoke highly about JR, even after the split (acknowledging in public that they still kept in touch and remained in good terms ever since), so this really strikes me as total BS from his so-called friend. When JR began incorporating his 'iPad' and other 'gadgets' (word that makes me cringe to the core), MP was 100% on board and happy with the new possibilities these new instruments brought to the table (not my words, his); so having him follow and back up Derek's comment of 'I'm the real deal, no iPadz, just good ole keyboards because I'm the king of keyz' feels kinda hypocrytical to me. I mean, it's not like JR should care at all about this child game because he's still winning the big bucks and is still *the* big name in the progressive metal keyboardist circles. It's not even close.

I wish someone just told Derek something along the lines of 'hey, buddy, your facade is funny and everything but you were still replaced by JR'.

Sorry, I'm usually not temperamental at all but this whole situation makes me cringe so much lol.

[Evai]

Maybe he'll appreciate gadgets more if he listens to enigma machine

[Drinktheater]

Jordan Rudess retiring from DT will be some thing I think I will be sad. He already earned his place and his style already personifies DT today even though Kevin Moore really did a huge impact early on.

But that is life.