Author Topic: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter  (Read 2909 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 10:58:25 AM »
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/18/16305486/what-really-happened-in-2016

Anothe good article on the subject of what happened, and while VOX is of course a very progessive leaning site I think it manages to stick to the actual numbers.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2017, 07:55:13 AM »

The other off-putting part of the book is the style she adopts when she talks about the night of her election loss. It is so inappropriately hyperbolic. She uses the language of profound grief, and speaks about a numbness, an emptiness, a total inability to feel or think, an absence of appetite, an unreal oneiric state, a complete emotional and intellectual detachment from the world. I have known mothers lose their children who responded with more perspective and dignity than this. In my lifetime, every other candidate who lost an election did so with at least a modicum of elegance, and usually a lot of it. Hillary's reaction is not a normal one in my opinion, this is not some grand Sophoclean tragedy she's involved in. There is something not right in her attitude to herself and losing the election, and several times reading it I've found myself thinking "This is not a psychologically healthy reaction to losing an election".   



My only contention here is it was shock for her. Much like a shock and loss for us; yes a death, end of a relationship, or job loss. All have the propensity to send someone into a depression. And different people who have lost more act more swiftly sure, but this was her subjective experience and therefore her perception. Much like someone experiencing abuse by parents and be alright, and another sibling with a similar experience turns attempt suicide.

Now the amount it is played up at this current point, and how awful it was, I'd be with you. She lost a job, on the biggest stage yes, but everyday people lose gigs.
I think this is a good point, but it goes much further than losing a gig. She's spent more than half of her life trying to  become president. Her life has been mapped out to a large extent, and the presidency represented both the pinnacle and the endgame. Due to her arrogance she was expecting the final chapter to play out as planned. What's left? This isn't losing a job where you go out and get another one. It's not a planned retirement. It was the end of her life's work before its culmination. At this point she was basically forced with the realization that she had to become a very different person than what she had always been and intended to continue being.

And before people spend time explaining how awful she is and undeserving of sympathy, I'll throw out now that this is the fault of her own arrogance and ambition. I'm not trying to garner sympathy for the woman. I'm just pointing out how this would be a significant existential crisis.

Lastly, for Dave, she possessed inherent traits that both led her to, and were necessary to attain, a specific goal. A goal that she eventually missed in large part to her reliance on those very traits, leading to her own collapse. Just sayin.   :biggrin:

This was not a "job" for her, and thus one of the biggest reasons I couldn't vote for her:  she felt ENTITLED to that position.  She felt she was destined and ordained for that role.  I just finished Harry Potter (great series, by the way) and there is an interesting passage regarding Dumbledore near the end where he talks about the difference between those WANTING to wield power and those that reluctantly assume the mantel.   There is nothing "reluctant" about Hillary's craving to be powerful.   

As for Dave's excellent (as usual) insight, he mentioned two things that are supremely important, in my opinion:
- one, she IS, technically, a criminal. She knowingly, and with intent, lied under oath in front of one of the three branches of Federal government.  Not, in my estimation, something to be taken lightly.
- the Mook underestimation of the intelligence of the population was a campaign trait, and your writeup still leads me to believe that she doesn't get it.  She didn't lose because of the electoral college.  She didn't lose because of Jim Comey.  She lost because anywhere from 10 to 20 MILLION PEOPLE, people who voted for Obama, felt deeply that she didn't give shit one about them.  They weren't Women, Gay, or Immigrant (capitalized to indicate a "movement" not a particular person) and so they were not important to her. 

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2017, 07:58:00 AM »
If you knew nothing bout their politics, who would you view more favorably?


Maybe I'm in the minority, but the problem I have is that the question doesn't compute.  If the "view more favorably" is in terms of "more favorably for election to a public office, namely the office of POTUS," then it's all about their politics.  I couldn't view one as more favorably than the others unless and until I found out more about their politics.  So I wouldn't even really know how to answer the question. 

And, by the way, none of those pictures are very flattering, including the Palin one.
Setting aside the question of whether or not you're indicative of the average voter, I agree with you on a practical level. However, I think it goes well beyond that. For better or for worse likeability plays a very big role in elections. It doesn't have to be enough to override practical political considerations to matter. Some people will vote for the person with the right letter after their name. Others won't care and will choose between two specific people. The one that seems more likable to them will generally win that decision. Consider how many people were on the fence during this election. Clearly these aren't people voting on policy matters.

This guy could be the world's greatest candidate. If he had the logical brain of Spock, the caring personality of Carter, and the political sensibilities of Nixon, would you think him electable? You might vote for him, I probably would, but would 51% of America?



edit: And I thought it was a flattering picture of Palin. It's certainly not intentionally unflattering, like Pelosi/Hillary. In any case, I was just thrilled to find it. Perfect for my point.

I would have thought you would have used a picture of you wearing your Maiden shirt. 

By the way, I think Sarah Palin is model-hot (though I wouldn't vote for her if she was running against Voldemort, but for practical, political reasons). 

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20882
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 08:13:46 AM »
Nah, I needed a picture of somebody people wouldn't vote for to make my point.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2017, 08:59:28 AM »
she felt ENTITLED to that position. 

BING-freakin-O.....and everyone knew that's the way she felt and IMO why she was off putting to a ton of folks. The fact that she's still out whining about losing this election nearly A YEAR after it has been over is easily the single biggest case of sour grapes every by a politician who lost an election. You lost...get over it...bye bye.

It's apparent though that her narcissism and self entitled spirit simply won't allow her to live out the rest of her days as a Grandma. 
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 3383
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2017, 09:07:37 AM »
she felt ENTITLED to that position. 

BING-freakin-O.....and everyone knew that's the way she felt and IMO why she was off putting to a ton of folks. The fact that she's still out whining about losing this election nearly A YEAR after it has been over is easily the single biggest case of sour grapes every by a politician who lost an election. You lost...get over it...bye bye.

It's apparent though that her narcissism and self entitled spirit simply won't allow her to live out the rest of her days as a Grandma.

Disclaimer...not a Hillary fan here.

But.......

Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2017, 09:40:01 AM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Maybe for two or three months but even as egotistical as Trump is it wouldn't have lasted this long. He wouldn't have had the media on his side like she does so any of his complaints or exploits wouldn't be as broadly pan handled like Hilary's are right now. Besides...He'd be busy cashing in on the Pres. run. I don't read Trump as feeling 'entitled' to anything actually. Especially on the level of Hillary....
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4954
  • Shopping Cart Apologist
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2017, 09:43:37 AM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Two things:

1.  I'm not sure it would have been a storm of "sour grapes"--at least, not nearly in the proportion we have seen since this election.  I could be wrong, but I just don't see it that way. 

2.  Yeah, he may in a sense feel more entitled than Hillary.  But it's different.  And it's not the "ambition is okay for a man but not a woman" thing either, although some may try to paint it as that.  I mean, maybe it is for some--I can't deny that there are those out there that may feel that way.  But for me, it's just vastly different in at least a couple of ways that matter.  First, a sense of entitlement as a politician is different than that same sense of entitlement as a celebrity/rich non-politician fat-cat.  They're both pretty unpalatable.  But, to me, the former is more dangerous and distasteful than the latter.  Related to that, second, she had this sense of entitlement, not only to obtaining office, but entitlement to be in a position of power and influence to tell the country collectively what they should think.  Trump is all about "I want/deserve power because I'm Donald Friggin' Trump, and it's what I do."  I don't like that.  But it's not as bad as Hillary's "I want/deserve power because I know what's best for everybody, and for those that disagree, I don't care and will institute government programs and social change that force them to conform to what I know is best."  That is intolerable.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2017, 09:45:04 AM »

 I don't read Trump as feeling 'entitled' to anything actually. Especially on the level of Hillary....

Who said something anout cognitive dissonance? Oh that was another thread, my bad...

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2017, 09:54:57 AM »

 I don't read Trump as feeling 'entitled' to anything actually. Especially on the level of Hillary....

Who said something anout cognitive dissonance? Oh that was another thread, my bad...

Yeah...you guys are real clever like that.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 3383
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2017, 10:14:33 AM »
Each to their own opinion of course, but after watching Trump have sour grapes and complaining about WINNING for months, I feel if he lost it would be an epic sour grape meltdown.  I mean the dude WINS and he complains about voter fraud, the popular vote, crowd sizes, etc. I guess we will never know, but if your position is that he would show restraint and let things go, I think that is willful ignorance.  JMO
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 3383
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2017, 10:30:17 AM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Two things:

1.  I'm not sure it would have been a storm of "sour grapes"--at least, not nearly in the proportion we have seen since this election.  I could be wrong, but I just don't see it that way. 

2.  Yeah, he may in a sense feel more entitled than Hillary.  But it's different.  And it's not the "ambition is okay for a man but not a woman" thing either, although some may try to paint it as that.  I mean, maybe it is for some--I can't deny that there are those out there that may feel that way.  But for me, it's just vastly different in at least a couple of ways that matter.  First, a sense of entitlement as a politician is different than that same sense of entitlement as a celebrity/rich non-politician fat-cat.  They're both pretty unpalatable.  But, to me, the former is more dangerous and distasteful than the latter.  Related to that, second, she had this sense of entitlement, not only to obtaining office, but entitlement to be in a position of power and influence to tell the country collectively what they should think.  Trump is all about "I want/deserve power because I'm Donald Friggin' Trump, and it's what I do."  I don't like that.  But it's not as bad as Hillary's "I want/deserve power because I know what's best for everybody, and for those that disagree, I don't care and will institute government programs and social change that force them to conform to what I know is best."  That is intolerable.

Just to be clear, jam talking about the individual candidates and how they personally react after the loss, not the base or supporters. 

Second, I see Hillary and Donald as two sides of the same coin.  Distinction without much difference, especially when it is conjecture.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2017, 10:43:16 AM »
Each to their own opinion of course, but after watching Trump have sour grapes and complaining about WINNING for months, I feel if he lost it would be an epic sour grape meltdown.  I mean the dude WINS and he complains about voter fraud, the popular vote, crowd sizes, etc. I guess we will never know, but if your position is that he would show restraint and let things go, I think that is willful ignorance.  JMO

my position was I don't believe he'd still have been doing it near a year after the election. I'm sure he'd have screamed about it for a couple months but I don't think he'd have drug it out and whined about it as long or as shamelessly as she has.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2017, 10:46:08 AM »
Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise. 

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2017, 10:57:37 AM »
Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise.

Her own party didn't want her to be the candidate. If not for the shenanigans of a few people in positions of power in the DNC and media she'd not have been the candidate. No one gives a  :censored about her message or what she stands for, at least not to the extent her entitled mind believes....and what she is doing is just a really fancy version of whining and pouting. it's that simple.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20882
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2017, 10:59:04 AM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Two things:

1.  I'm not sure it would have been a storm of "sour grapes"--at least, not nearly in the proportion we have seen since this election.  I could be wrong, but I just don't see it that way. 

2.  Yeah, he may in a sense feel more entitled than Hillary.  But it's different.  And it's not the "ambition is okay for a man but not a woman" thing either, although some may try to paint it as that.  I mean, maybe it is for some--I can't deny that there are those out there that may feel that way.  But for me, it's just vastly different in at least a couple of ways that matter.  First, a sense of entitlement as a politician is different than that same sense of entitlement as a celebrity/rich non-politician fat-cat.  They're both pretty unpalatable.  But, to me, the former is more dangerous and distasteful than the latter.  Related to that, second, she had this sense of entitlement, not only to obtaining office, but entitlement to be in a position of power and influence to tell the country collectively what they should think.  Trump is all about "I want/deserve power because I'm Donald Friggin' Trump, and it's what I do."  I don't like that.  But it's not as bad as Hillary's "I want/deserve power because I know what's best for everybody, and for those that disagree, I don't care and will institute government programs and social change that force them to conform to what I know is best."  That is intolerable.
This is a good post, and I can't argue with the distinction you've drawn. Pretty sound.

Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise. 
I also agree with this, and the two are not in conflict. I don't think Bernie is behaving any differently, and he's not catching the heat Hillary is. Hillary sees a problem, which I and a couple of others discussed earlier, and she's trying to call attention to it. To be fair, she's also babbling about things she's off base about, but it's not reasonable to expect her to just shut up and go away. That's not what a potential president should do.

Insofar as the comparison with Grabby goes, Trump would have spent 2 months blaming Mexicans and voter fraud. He then would have blown it off, as it's not actually all that important to him. Is that better, or more presidential, than continuing to try and make an important point?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2017, 11:03:27 AM »
Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise.

Her own party didn't want her to be the candidate. If not for the shenanigans of a few people in positions of power in the DNC and media she'd not have been the candidate. No one gives a  :censored about her message or what she stands for, at least not to the extent her entitled mind believes....and what she is doing is just a really fancy version of whining and pouting. it's that simple.

**deep breaths** I'm not going to deny she was an unpopular candidate, in fact they both were.  It's part and parcel of why it was such an unusual election.    I for one like her well enough and believe she would have made a much better president and am sill interested in what she has to say.     Let's leave it at that.

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11871
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2017, 11:11:38 AM »
Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise.

Her own party didn't want her to be the candidate. If not for the shenanigans of a few people in positions of power in the DNC and media she'd not have been the candidate. No one gives a  :censored about her message or what she stands for, at least not to the extent her entitled mind believes....and what she is doing is just a really fancy version of whining and pouting. it's that simple.

**deep breaths** I'm not going to deny she was an unpopular candidate, in fact they both were.  It's part and parcel of why it was such an unusual election.    I for one like her well enough and believe she would have made a much better president and am sill interested in what she has to say.     Let's leave it at that.

Sounds Good  :tup 
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Cable

  • Posts: 1513
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2017, 11:30:49 AM »
The line between justified confidence and entitlement can be murky though. Ideally yes, a leader should not seek power. But it would be ridiculous to think in the higher governmental offices, that people don't crave it and obsess over it to varying degrees.
---

Offline Dave_Manchester

  • Posts: 775
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2017, 12:16:30 PM »
While I think there are similarities between Trump and Clinton, mostly related to vanity, I don't think I'd describe Trump as feeling "entitled" to be President. That's not the impression I ever got from him, in fact at times it was almost the opposite. A part of his shtick was expressing something close to disdain for the Presidency, as opposed to Hillary who was reverential about it. I think a fundamental difference between Trump and Clinton is the nature of their egos. Trump's is extraordinarily fragile, he is hyper-sensitive to criticism, and needs constant praise and adulation. He loves himself dearly, but I don't think he's arrogant. He's far too brittle for that. His reasons for wanting 'power' are very different to Hillary's reasons. Hillary, as opposed to Trump, has incredible self-confidence and in my opinion (but that opinion is based on a 512 page apologia) she believed she was the most qualified and able person in America to be President (and for all I know, maybe she was right). She felt it was her turn, that she deserved it, and that she had earned it. So for her, "entitlement" is the right word.   

I'm still not sure in my own mind exactly why Trump decided to run for President. 'Trumpism' seemed then (and still does now) to be a movement rather than a set of policies. He's quite exact in what he's against but vague in what he's for. I still don't have the sense he has a coherent political vision, and it's another reason I don't think he felt entitled to be President. I think as far as the actual job goes, he could take it or leave it. He just wanted to show that he could be President, after almost everyone laughed at him and said he couldn't. I think if you asked Hillary: "Do you think you deserved to be President?", she would answer yes, whereas if you put the same question to Trump, he would consider the question nonsense, because he doesn't think in those terms. You don't 'earn' things in his world, you simply acquire them.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2017, 12:28:31 PM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Maybe for two or three months but even as egotistical as Trump is it wouldn't have lasted this long. He wouldn't have had the media on his side like she does so any of his complaints or exploits wouldn't be as broadly pan handled like Hilary's are right now. Besides...He'd be busy cashing in on the Pres. run. I don't read Trump as feeling 'entitled' to anything actually. Especially on the level of Hillary....

I think you're right, G.   Trump distances himself almost immediately from any failure, or continues to sell it as a win in disguise.  Losing the election would have been hard to paint as the latter, so I think he would have moved on fairly quickly and you wouldn't hear about it again. 

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20882
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2017, 12:32:58 PM »
Could you imagine the sour grapes shit storm we would be enduring if Trump lost?  I would say that the one person in the world who feels more entitled than Hillary might just be Trump.

Maybe for two or three months but even as egotistical as Trump is it wouldn't have lasted this long. He wouldn't have had the media on his side like she does so any of his complaints or exploits wouldn't be as broadly pan handled like Hilary's are right now. Besides...He'd be busy cashing in on the Pres. run. I don't read Trump as feeling 'entitled' to anything actually. Especially on the level of Hillary....

I think you're right, G.   Trump distances himself almost immediately from any failure, or continues to sell it as a win in disguise.  Losing the election would have been hard to paint as the latter, so I think he would have moved on fairly quickly and you wouldn't hear about it again.
But would that have been any better? If his argument was that he was cheated, and every person here knows that would be his angle, would dumping the whole thing in favor of raking in more money be the right thing to do?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2017, 12:34:34 PM »
Hillary isn't whining,  it's like some people want her to be a good girl and fade away, not make noise.

Her own party didn't want her to be the candidate. If not for the shenanigans of a few people in positions of power in the DNC and media she'd not have been the candidate. No one gives a  :censored about her message or what she stands for, at least not to the extent her entitled mind believes....and what she is doing is just a really fancy version of whining and pouting. it's that simple.

**deep breaths** I'm not going to deny she was an unpopular candidate, in fact they both were.  It's part and parcel of why it was such an unusual election.    I for one like her well enough and believe she would have made a much better president and am sill interested in what she has to say.     Let's leave it at that.

But I think el Barto is right here; it's not "either or".   I think she's entitled, I think she would make a bad President for various reasons, and I think she's whining about the election.  But that's not to say that she isn't smart, or has great insight.  It doesn't mean she should "go away".  I think between her and Bill, they have as much to offer as any two people active in politics today (and dare I say, more to offer than the Obamas).  My only beef with Bill is his sketchy idea of the law and how he fits into that (he doesn't feel he does).

I think at some point, though, she's going to start causing damage.  The more she harps on the election itself, and not the more general issues confronting our country, it's going to continue to erode the trust that we as a people have in our electoral process.  That's NEVER a good thing (note this is different than simply positing a system that doesn't include an electoral college). 

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 12:37:33 PM »

 (and dare I say, more to offer than the Obamas)


You never miss a chance do you?   ;)

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »
The line between justified confidence and entitlement can be murky though. Ideally yes, a leader should not seek power. But it would be ridiculous to think in the higher governmental offices, that people don't crave it and obsess over it to varying degrees.

It can be, and I think we tolerate that murkiness in most politicians.  With her, it's so bold and pronounced, that there is no "murk".   For me, it's less about the lack of humility that is necessary to think "I am capable of running the largest (in terms of economy) and most powerful (in terms of military) country on the planet".   There's not a President in our lifetime that didn't think that.   It's the part where she felt she DESERVED it, that she felt that something was stolen from her.   Not the election itself but rather the birthright.   That's the part that bothers me.  I have a real problem with the "deserve" part; I think that word is grossly overused. 

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2017, 12:39:57 PM »

 (and dare I say, more to offer than the Obamas)


You never miss a chance do you?   ;)

Obama wouldn't.  :) :)    :-*

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2017, 12:45:28 PM »

  It's the part where she felt she DESERVED it, that she felt that something was stolen from her.   Not the election itself but rather the birthright.   That's the part that bothers me.  I have a real problem with the "deserve" part; I think that word is grossly overused.

I think some of that is you projecting, with all due respect.

Online El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20882
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2017, 12:51:05 PM »
I think at some point, though, she's going to start causing damage.  The more she harps on the election itself, and not the more general issues confronting our country, it's going to continue to erode the trust that we as a people have in our electoral process.  That's NEVER a good thing (note this is different than simply positing a system that doesn't include an electoral college).
Could she? If she sticks to a relevant issue that's close to her heart, gender bias, obviously, would people pay attention to her or would they dismiss it as more sour grapes? That's actually very similar to the point I wasn't able to make in the FTP thread. Often times people can't see the message because they hate the messenger.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2017, 01:01:11 PM »

  It's the part where she felt she DESERVED it, that she felt that something was stolen from her.   Not the election itself but rather the birthright.   That's the part that bothers me.  I have a real problem with the "deserve" part; I think that word is grossly overused.

I think some of that is you projecting, with all due respect.

I'm not sure I follow; she said it.  It was back when she was first lady, but she said it.  I forget the actual words, and so I'm not quoting her in any way, but she stated that it was essentially her and Bill's birthright to be the leaders of this country.   I don't think anyone in that position "deserves" anything, in that sense of the word.

Offline XeRocks81

  • Posts: 489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2017, 01:07:47 PM »

  It's the part where she felt she DESERVED it, that she felt that something was stolen from her.   Not the election itself but rather the birthright.   That's the part that bothers me.  I have a real problem with the "deserve" part; I think that word is grossly overused.

I think some of that is you projecting, with all due respect.

I'm not sure I follow; she said it.  It was back when she was first lady, but she said it.  I forget the actual words, and so I'm not quoting her in any way, but she stated that it was essentially her and Bill's birthright to be the leaders of this country.   I don't think anyone in that position "deserves" anything, in that sense of the word.

I bet if we dug it up wed have different interpretations.  But whatever,  convenient that I cant comment on it

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2018, 09:44:44 AM »
What say us now?  Especially given that Comey acknowledges he assumed Hillary would win, and posted the letter to make sure her Presidency didn't lose any "legitimacy".  Wow, there's some irony for you, huh?   

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 25067
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2018, 11:10:03 AM »
What say us now?  Especially given that Comey acknowledges he assumed Hillary would win, and posted the letter to make sure her Presidency didn't lose any "legitimacy".  Wow, there's some irony for you, huh?

That's gotta be the biggest "D'OH!"  in the history of ever
I didn't know I could handle another 10 inches and it was rough but in the end I'm glad I did it.
warflwwcesfw.
That's meme-speak for "We are really f*****g lazy when we can't eve say full words".

Offline XJDenton

  • What a shame
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4595

Online Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13900
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2018, 11:42:56 AM »
Jim Comey is the gift that keeps on giving... now HILLARY says he's a liar. 
 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/clinton-world-fumes-over-comey-book-tour-hes-now-lying/ar-AAvYKv1?ocid=ientp

Look, the Left is big on the "guilt by association" tack, and I generally push back on that, but even I have to concede, if two world class liars like Donald J. Trump and Hillary R. Clinton call you a "liar", you've got to look in the mirror.   :)

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4954
  • Shopping Cart Apologist
Re: Hillary Clinton would probably be president if not for the Comey letter
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2018, 12:08:26 PM »
...but even I have to concede, if two world class liars like Donald J. Trump and Hillary R. Clinton call you a "liar", you've got to look in the mirror.   :)

:rollin  Spot on.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."