Author Topic: Racial tension ramping up....  (Read 3594 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Racial tension ramping up....
« on: August 13, 2017, 07:08:20 PM »
Well.   Here it is.   The thread for discussing what happened in Charlottesville, and any other city that may have responded. 

As I type, there is more violence in downtown Seattle tonight as the two sides square off against each other.   

I can't say I'm really surprised, but it is incredibly sad.   I will quote the Terminator, "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves"....   

This is one of the primary reasons I disagree with any and all arguments that the world is a better place today than it ever has been.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 07:30:17 PM »
Well.   Here it is.   The thread for discussing what happened in Charlottesville, and any other city that may have responded. 

As I type, there is more violence in downtown Seattle tonight as the two sides square off against each other.   

I can't say I'm really surprised, but it is incredibly sad.   I will quote the Terminator, "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves"....   

This is one of the primary reasons I disagree with any and all arguments that the world is a better place today than it ever has been.

Right.......The world was clearly better when the racial tensions were about Slaves wanting freedom.  Now we have BLM.

Now we have to deal with Neo-Nazis protesting, and some idiot guy runs over and kills a protester.  Back in the good old days we only had actual nazis exterminating millions of Jews.

Now we deal with political parties dividing America, and see brothers insulting brothers on facebook.  Back in the day, we had the civil war with brother actually killing brother.

Cmon man.

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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 07:52:41 PM »
What went on in Charlottesville this weekend was abominable. To see white nationalists, nazis, etc. taking to the streets so openly is very unsettling (there were some spotted there from my own community as well), and then to see an innocent woman killed, and I think 19 others injured, in a terrorist attack by one of them is deeply saddening. There was also a young black man who sustained severe injuries after being surrounded and beaten with poles. It's all pretty tough to swallow.

Offline Cable

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 08:05:04 PM »
Well.   Here it is.   The thread for discussing what happened in Charlottesville, and any other city that may have responded. 

As I type, there is more violence in downtown Seattle tonight as the two sides square off against each other.   

I can't say I'm really surprised, but it is incredibly sad.   I will quote the Terminator, "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves"....   

This is one of the primary reasons I disagree with any and all arguments that the world is a better place today than it ever has been.

Right.......The world was clearly better when the racial tensions were about Slaves wanting freedom.  Now we have BLM.

Now we have to deal with Neo-Nazis protesting, and some idiot guy runs over and kills a protester.  Back in the good old days we only had actual nazis exterminating millions of Jews.

Now we deal with political parties dividing America, and see brothers insulting brothers on facebook.  Back in the day, we had the civil war with brother actually killing brother.

Cmon man.


But being indifferent, or washing it off as *been going on since the start of time* is a better idea? Let's say my brother was the person who was killed, and was there primarily with their friends to just support them (easier to do something hard with friends boosting you). ~But hey, the KKK has been around since the Civil War, and back then they were stoning to death seven *lepers* a weekend. Therefore, just one person dying isn't a big deal then!~

It's one thing to say this has been publicized a heck of a lot more than other atrocities: that is a debatable point. And sure, people have it better today than ever.

Doesn't mean work is done, and/or things cannot be refined more. Minimizing one death, who this person was important to lots people, is harsh. And would piss off many people in their circle. If I said to a patient ~oh, your dog was eaten. Dogs have been dying for meals forever though, shoot, they used to eat dogs instead of cows in this country! So nothing new, get over it- it's just one dog.~  That is effective?

Or let's take it here; I had no one I know involved with 9/11/2001 at the time. As a result, it didn't have an emotional impact on me, until about a year ago when I found something out. So if I would have said after 9/11 something like ~Lots of corpses, but the holocaust killed so many more people. Armenian genocide too. Wars have wiped out so many more civilians than this. Heck, even some cruise ship disasters wiped out more people. Nothing new here!~ I could have been attacked by someone if I said that after.

Extreme analogies, but dismissively waving off small events won't help anything or anyone. Criticizing the media's coverage, and the focus on what President Drumpf said afterward is legit. But minimizing it is not cool considering this person got blitzed by an inmpuslve kid, most likely in daddy's car.


What went on in Charlottesville this weekend was abominable. To see white nationalists, nazis, etc. taking to the streets so openly is very unsettling (there were some spotted there from my own community as well), and then to see an innocent woman killed, and I think 19 others injured, in a terrorist attack by one of them is deeply saddening. There was also a young black man who sustained severe injuries after being surrounded and beaten with poles. It's all pretty tough to swallow.

 :tup And this is the way to say it.  :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:21:20 PM by Cable »
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 08:50:15 PM »
I clearly did not brush anything off, or act indifferent, saying it has been happening forever.  Clearly there are very serious issues happening in the world today.  But to say that things are no better than in the past is being willfully ignorant at best.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 09:04:17 PM »
I generally have no problem with any group that wants to assemble, protest, convene, or do whatever they choose,  provided their intentions or actions do not result in destruction, violation of public rights-of-way, or any other direct or indirect impediments of anyone not involved.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 09:16:53 PM »
 That is a good point that I should clarify on my end.  Clarify on my end.

 I understand that atrocities have been going on with humans since the beginning of time. But for all that time, humans have been promising a better future. I don't believe that better future is here. I think that we have simply made the problems more widespread because there are more people.   The problems keep repeating and spreading.   We might have a few more creature comfort's, but the things that make us happy are no closer to us now than they ever have been in human history.

 Even people who supposedly has everything that would make most people happy is miserable.

 And it's because humankind is never going to be able to solve the root issues.  They are just going to keep spreading out the more people we get.

EDIT -  typos are due to my stupid talk to text. And I don't feel like going back to fix them right now. But I'm sure you guys can figure it out. LOL
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 09:32:40 PM »
Very depressed and disturbed by yesterday's events, and the ensuing shitstorm that will ensue. I would like to think that the death of that girl would instigate a change for the better, but I feel that it will be a trigger for darker days to come, especially since 45 will never stoop to denounce his base supporters.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 09:54:09 PM »
Yesterday was a travesty, and I fear it is only going to get worse.  When you consider how many protests the radical left has had the last few years, it was only a matter of time before the radical right (or in this case, the REALLY radical right) decided to do the same...and here we are.  It's just ugliness through and through. 

While the reaction has been strong, I think some need to be careful to not cast over a net over entire groups of people based on the actions of a few.  For example, all we have heard for years from liberals is, "Don't castigate all muslims because of the radical ones who are terrorists," yet I am seeing liberals all over the place in the last two days saying that Charlottesville proves that all Republicans are racist, as if anyone who votes for the GOP is a neo-nazi who secretly wants to smash all black and brown people.  It's maddening, and hypocritical.

That said, Trump's reaction to it was the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen out of an American president.  He truly is an abomination.




Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 10:15:53 PM »
I am seeing liberals all over the place in the last two days saying that Charlottesville proves that all Republicans are racist, as if anyone who votes for the GOP is a neo-nazi who secretly wants to smash all black and brown people.

They've been saying that about Republicans for the past 6 months. If not longer.
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Offline Cable

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 10:17:32 PM »
I clearly did not brush anything off, or act indifferent, saying it has been happening forever.  Clearly there are very serious issues happening in the world today. 


The tone I received from your post was somewhat sarcastic Eric, and concluded with "cmon man." So I'm not sure that can be taken as acceptaing of what Jammin said?


I am seeing liberals all over the place in the last two days saying that Charlottesville proves that all Republicans are racist, as if anyone who votes for the GOP is a neo-nazi who secretly wants to smash all black and brown people.

They've been saying that about Republicans for the past 6 months. If not longer.


I agree with this fully. And goes back to the closed conversations, what Google guy was hoping to rally against.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 10:23:30 PM by Cable »
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 05:02:17 AM »
I clearly did not brush anything off, or act indifferent, saying it has been happening forever.  Clearly there are very serious issues happening in the world today. 


The tone I received from your post was somewhat sarcastic Eric, and concluded with "cmon man." So I'm not sure that can be taken as acceptaing of what Jammin said?

I was being sarcastic.  I did not agree with what Jammin said.  The world is not perfect, and it has many problems...but to say it is no better than it ever has been????....especially in respects to the thread topic (Racism, Nazism, etc)
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Offline Chino

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 06:29:29 AM »
I am seeing liberals all over the place in the last two days saying that Charlottesville proves that all Republicans are racist, as if anyone who votes for the GOP is a neo-nazi who secretly wants to smash all black and brown people.

They've been saying that about Republicans for the past 6 months. If not longer.

And I've seen plenty of youtube comments wishing the guy ran over more people, and one piece of shit even started a go fund me page to repair the damages to his car for him. But I know better than to apply that to everyone.

Offline Chino

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2017, 06:44:53 AM »
This whole event really disturbed me, and I hate to circle it back to Trump, but why the hell couldn't he call out the group for what it is? A nazi on US soil killed an American, and the best he can say is "there was hate from many sides. Many sides"? If there was an ISIS march, and and ISIS supporter ran over someone protesting ISIS, he would've been on Twitter within seconds screaming "RADICAL ISLAMIC TERROR".

I mean, at what point does it become clear that he's going out of his way to pander to this group of people? He's screaming for a border wall, immigration bans, information from sanctuary cities, etc, all in the name of preventing this sort of thing, and this is done by the hands of a home grown "patriot".



The epitome of irony, a Charlottesville protester doing the nazi salute while wearing a cap brandishing the 82nd airborne units patch. The same unit that dropped into Normandy to help with the invasion and to end Nazi rule in Europe.












C'mon. What's it going to take for this guy to grow some balls. He can't even call the people waving swastika flags "nazis". What the fuck is wrong with him?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:49:01 AM by Chino »

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2017, 07:45:25 AM »
One of the interesting sides of this which gaining some attention today was the how the police chose to handle this. My understanding is that they essentially were acting like referees and only intervened as needed, otherwise they pretty much just let the whole thing act out. I have no problem with this approach.

And to think this was all about a stupid statue.

Offline Chino

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 07:58:03 AM »
One of the interesting sides of this which gaining some attention today was the how the police chose to handle this. My understanding is that they essentially were acting like referees and only intervened as needed, otherwise they pretty much just let the whole thing act out. I have no problem with this approach.

And to think this was all about a stupid statue.

I don't know how much more they could have done to be honest. I wouldn't expect this guy to try to go in and preemptively shut these people down.

Offline Implode

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 08:27:33 AM »
One thing that came to mind is the IL Nazi scene from Blues Brothers, and I don't mean that in a humorous way. Almost 40 years ago, Nazi rallies were almost to the point of a joke in the public eye. Heroes of media hated Nazis, and they had no problem driving a car through a crowd of them for a gag. Now I'm not advocating violence or anything, but just thinking about how it was depicted then compared to now, is it more acceptable to be a Nazi now? What the hell happened?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2017, 08:43:05 AM »
This is one of the primary reasons I disagree with any and all arguments that the world is a better place today than it ever has been.
Well, yeah.  But what is confusing to me is that you seem to be surprised/disappointed by that fact.  Perhaps I am assuming to much, but I would assume that your religious views would inform you to expect that that is the case and will always be the case.  (and I'm not criticizing, in case it was taken that way)  So I am confused that you are confused.

...is it more acceptable to be a Nazi now? What the hell happened?

I don't know that anything "happened."  There will always be hate.  There will always be stupidity.  And no matter how "intolerant" society as a whole becomes toward hate and stupidity, there will still always be groups that bristle against that and rise up to promote their agenda.  Always.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2017, 08:53:01 AM »
So, nobody likes neo-nazis. They've got very little support amongst the general population which mostly sees them as a joke. So why provide them more attention than they deserve? Seems to me that the counter-protest was counter-productive. It turned the whole thing into the spectacle they needed. Had everybody just ignored those knuckleheads nothing would have come of this. I defend both sides' right to march, protest, whatever. At the same time because you can do something doesn't mean that you should, and those asshat Nazis should have been the only people in town that day.

Honestly, what did the counter-protesters hope to achieve? Bigger numbers? Let people know they disapprove of something damn near everybody else already does? Any escalation they provide to the Nazis only furthers their cause by giving them a bigger microphone. Next time they decide to rally at a park somewhere, the counter-protest should take place 10 miles away. The organization should be to make sure that everybody avoids the area, so the only people who see them are a bunch of board cops.
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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2017, 09:07:21 AM »
So, nobody likes neo-nazis. They've got very little support amongst the general population which mostly sees them as a joke. So why provide them more attention than they deserve? Seems to me that the counter-protest was counter-productive. It turned the whole thing into the spectacle they needed. Had everybody just ignored those knuckleheads nothing would have come of this. I defend both sides' right to march, protest, whatever. At the same time because you can do something doesn't mean that you should, and those asshat Nazis should have been the only people in town that day.

Honestly, what did the counter-protesters hope to achieve? Bigger numbers? Let people know they disapprove of something damn near everybody else already does? Any escalation they provide to the Nazis only furthers their cause by giving them a bigger microphone. Next time they decide to rally at a park somewhere, the counter-protest should take place 10 miles away. The organization should be to make sure that everybody avoids the area, so the only people who see them are a bunch of board cops.

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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2017, 09:28:50 AM »
A way to counter protest is to turn their backs on the idiots, with no yelling or shouting towards them.  That has worked.

btw...so glad that I lost two uncles in WWII fighting for their 'right' to thumb their noses at what they fought against with their antics.

The problem is when the 'anarchists' come in as to the violence.  Baltimore to Ferguson to Baton Rouge, etc has had to deal with it.

A peaceful solution is to put up something commemorating Grant / Sherman / Lincoln et al next to the Confederate statues.  Call it a 'history' lesson area.  We haven't wiped away all the reminders of the British 'occupancy', otherwise there would be a ton of name changing to do.

My stepdaughter worked in Charlottesville for three years as she earned her first Master's degree.  We visited the city many times, including last year for a Central Michigan / Virginia football game.  This 'display' disgustingly hit home in.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2017, 10:45:41 AM »
So, nobody likes neo-nazis. They've got very little support amongst the general population which mostly sees them as a joke. So why provide them more attention than they deserve? Seems to me that the counter-protest was counter-productive. It turned the whole thing into the spectacle they needed. Had everybody just ignored those knuckleheads nothing would have come of this. I defend both sides' right to march, protest, whatever. At the same time because you can do something doesn't mean that you should, and those asshat Nazis should have been the only people in town that day.

Honestly, what did the counter-protesters hope to achieve? Bigger numbers? Let people know they disapprove of something damn near everybody else already does? Any escalation they provide to the Nazis only furthers their cause by giving them a bigger microphone. Next time they decide to rally at a park somewhere, the counter-protest should take place 10 miles away. The organization should be to make sure that everybody avoids the area, so the only people who see them are a bunch of board cops.

Spot. On.

I hear what you guys are saying, and all of me basically agrees. However, part of me is glad that people do this. I think it's important for the rest of the world, especially in today's political environment, to know that these people don't speak for this country, and there are many people in the US that seriously frown upon this behavior. If our own president won't denounce these groups, I'm glad someone else is.

I don't want other countries thinking that the majority of Americans are cool with this

Offline bosk1

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 10:59:53 AM »
If our own president won't denounce these groups, I'm glad someone else is.

And that's one of the reasons it is such an important freedom.  But as far as the president, I respectfully disagree with your position on what he "should" do.  I don't think this or any other president is obligated to affirmatively denounce any specific group.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2017, 11:04:26 AM »
If our own president won't denounce these groups, I'm glad someone else is.

And that's one of the reasons it is such an important freedom.  But as far as the president, I respectfully disagree with your position on what he "should" do.  I don't think this or any other president is obligated to affirmatively denounce any specific group.

I wouldn't say he's obligated as there are tons of hate groups out there, but when man arrested for murder charges is seen on camera with literal nazis and then drives his car into a crowd of those who oppose him, I think it's time for the president to call a spade a spade. Like I said, if this was a muslim guy in support of ISIS, he would have wasted no time tweeting something about radical islamic terror, not there was hate "from many sides". I guess that's the issue I have with it. He can't risk upsetting his base.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 11:09:50 AM by Chino »


Offline El Barto

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2017, 11:46:00 AM »
So, nobody likes neo-nazis. They've got very little support amongst the general population which mostly sees them as a joke. So why provide them more attention than they deserve? Seems to me that the counter-protest was counter-productive. It turned the whole thing into the spectacle they needed. Had everybody just ignored those knuckleheads nothing would have come of this. I defend both sides' right to march, protest, whatever. At the same time because you can do something doesn't mean that you should, and those asshat Nazis should have been the only people in town that day.

Honestly, what did the counter-protesters hope to achieve? Bigger numbers? Let people know they disapprove of something damn near everybody else already does? Any escalation they provide to the Nazis only furthers their cause by giving them a bigger microphone. Next time they decide to rally at a park somewhere, the counter-protest should take place 10 miles away. The organization should be to make sure that everybody avoids the area, so the only people who see them are a bunch of board cops.

Spot. On.

I hear what you guys are saying, and all of me basically agrees. However, part of me is glad that people do this. I think it's important for the rest of the world, especially in today's political environment, to know that these people don't speak for this country, and there are many people in the US that seriously frown upon this behavior. If our own president won't denounce these groups, I'm glad someone else is.

I don't want other countries thinking that the majority of Americans are cool with this

Seems to me that if people had just ignored them altogether the rest of the world probably wouldn't have noticed their existence to begin with. Sadly, the knuckleheads are the real winners here. As for the image it sends, I'd just as soon people see a picture of those asshats protesting among themselves. Recognition that we allow assholes the right to assemble, and that none of the rest of us care to be amongst them.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2017, 04:14:29 PM »
Can I ask a dumb question?

When did a statue of a Confederate General become an issue for black people? I mean, there were slaves in the North, right? I wasn't aware that the Civil War was over slavery. That is until Lincoln scared off the South's foreign aid with the EP.
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Offline Cable

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2017, 04:50:50 PM »
Can I ask a dumb question?

When did a statue of a Confederate General become an issue for black people? I mean, there were slaves in the North, right? I wasn't aware that the Civil War was over slavery. That is until Lincoln scared off the South's foreign aid with the EP.


I thought slavery was the primary reason, or at least the first thing mentioned.


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Offline Cable

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2017, 04:52:46 PM »
https://youtu.be/0RHBiRnWwRs?t=11m40s

DeFranco does more popular media type stories, but I thought he does a good job here covering it all in a digestible manner. Also wanted to share, because for what it's worth, he is self-admitely Libertarian.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2017, 07:29:59 PM »
Can I ask a dumb question?

When did a statue of a Confederate General become an issue for black people? I mean, there were slaves in the North, right? I wasn't aware that the Civil War was over slavery. That is until Lincoln scared off the South's foreign aid with the EP.

Several of the southern states are fairly explicit in their articles of secession that the preservation of slavery is one of their main motivations. Even the idea of states' rights was in terms of those states being able to preserve slavery. So yeah, I totally get why black people wouldn't like monuments to men who literally went to war to keep them in chains. I don't think it's something that just became distasteful to black people recently, I think it's only recently that they've gotten enough momentum to get anything done about it. State governments shouldn't have any part in flying confederate flags or having monuments to the confederacy.
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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2017, 07:38:33 PM »
Dead on Bill.
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2017, 07:55:51 PM »
Can I ask a dumb question?

When did a statue of a Confederate General become an issue for black people? I mean, there were slaves in the North, right? I wasn't aware that the Civil War was over slavery. That is until Lincoln scared off the South's foreign aid with the EP.

I don't believe that slavery was something that happened in the north. At least, I've never heard mention of it if it did. And as has already been mentioned, the preservation of slavery was a great motivating factor in the southern states leaving the union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America#Causes_of_secession

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2017, 08:02:50 PM »
I don't believe that slavery was something that happened in the north. At least, I've never heard mention of it if it did. 

Did you skip history class in school? ;)

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2017, 08:11:14 PM »
I don't believe that slavery was something that happened in the north. At least, I've never heard mention of it if it did. 

Did you skip history class in school? ;)

I admit that I very well could be missing/forgetting something that's obvious/common knowledge.

I do remember reading that it was legal for slave catchers from the south to cross borders into northern states to retrieve runaway slaves, but I don't remember seeing anything saying that it was legal in the north. Also, I think of the 3/5 compromise in the constitution as being a benefit to the south etc. etc...
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Offline Adami

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Re: Racial tension ramping up....
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2017, 08:16:50 PM »
Well, most of the northern states had abolished slavery by the early 1800's.
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