Author Topic: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)  (Read 379 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« on: August 03, 2017, 08:04:01 AM »
So... I've been lucky to live many places in my life, and other than my home state, my favorite by far was Philly.  Even though it was where my marriage finally collapsed, I met a ton of good people, felt part of the community, and still have many friends there.   

When my ex and I moved there, we bought a house, and became friends with the builders, who own and rent property in the area.  As such, we interacted with their families (we had kids of like age) and also became friends with some of their circle.   (We all lived within walking distance, and hung out at the same bars).   One of the "circle" was a gentleman from England (we'll call him "English").  A couple years older than me, he rented from the builders and ran a daycare with his wife.  They were estranged, and actually separated for a while.   We were friends enough with English, though, to introduce him to another mutual friend and they dated for a while, before we left (and he subsequently reunited with his wife, a pretty, smart American).  Our kids would sometimes play together, and we socialized rather frequently.  I even kept in touch, briefly, and have his name and phone number in my phone contacts to this day.   When I went to see Gene Simmons in Philly in June, I went for a cheesesteak, and drove by the daycare, and saw him in the window.   I even looked for a place to park to go in and say hello, but parking in Philly (and wanting to get in line for the show) I drove on.

I got a message yesterday that he has been arrested and charged with two counts each of EIGHT felonies, including "rape", "statutory rape", and "involuntary deviant sexual intercourse".  The victims making the complaint are a five year old boy and a five year old girl.  I don't think I've ever been blown away like I am right now, for several reasons:

- I know this man, and invited him, willingly and repeatedly, into my home.
- I trusted this man with my child (she didn't actively go to the daycare, but attended parties there, and would play with his daughter).
- I had not a clue; I talked to my ex and we both agreed that we never saw an INKLING of this. Not a HINT.  Not a WHIFF.  Other than he drank a little too much (but pot, kettle, black) the ONLY bad thing ever was the girl that dated him complained he wasn't always able to get going, if you know what I mean.
- Nothing to do with him, but I'm reading the comments to the articles, and people are flat out FUCKED UP.  If he did it, then justice needs to be served, but he HAS only been charged at this point and there are people that are demanding he be KILLED.   Even the people that have said "innocent until proven guilty" are being threatened with harm.   They are just as sick as the perp here in my mind!

How could he do this?  How could I have missed this?   How does this happen?   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 08:12:26 AM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.

The Clemente Report that the Paterno family paid for gives a good insight in how a sexual predator will be able to do this and fool everyone around them http://www.paterno.com/expert-reports/jim-clemente.aspx#.WYMur9PytHQ

Offline El Barto

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 08:16:42 AM »
Already posted elsewhere, but I'll put it here anyway.

Quote from: Some Random Asshole

First, read up on the McMartin case, if you're not familiar with it. Make no assumptions. Frankly, I wouldn't believe the accusations of 5 year olds for shit.

Second, as I tried to explain yesterday, it's the wrathfulness in this country that's the basis for my opposition to capital punishment. These people are no better than those they hate.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 09:02:46 AM »
It's the old cliche for sure "he was the nicest guy" or "never would have guessed in a million years"....and so on.

I can say from personal experience that the predators that do these types of things put a lot of effort into creating a persona and false...."perfect" front around themselves. The person who abused me and other family members spent a solid two years of leg work creating a sense of comfort between he and my parents, my cousins parents and God knows who else.....before he started executing his plan. He treated me like gold for the longest time before doing 'things' to me. Made me things like a leather wallet and a pocket knife. Fueled my childhood dream of owning a pet store by saying he wanted to do that too and drew up plans for a store...talked to me all the time about what we'd sell and name it. Bottom line is he and the guy you know like all the rest of those who are sick like that 'know' what they are doing....especially when you can look back with 20/20 hind sight and see how craftily they laid out the trap(s)

I'm very glad your kiddos avoided any situation with him.....even thought I guess nothing has technically been proven yet. 

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Online Chino

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 10:18:59 AM »
Damn man. That's some stuff. I've seen the same thing happen as well. We had a mentor on our robotics team when I was in high school (was a teacher as well) who ended up going to jail on child molestation charges. I never, ever, ever would have thought that of him. I was in complete disbelief.

As for the comments people leave... sometimes I'd rather not even bother going to that section. You should have seen some of the comments about me in the articles saying I fell off the balcony. Truly disgusting stuff.

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 03:07:39 PM »
How could he do this?  How could I have missed this?   How does this happen?

Don't at all blame yourself, Stads. Gary made an excellent point. Sometimes it's impossible to tell. We all want to be vigilant when it comes to our children and loved ones, but there's a lot of sick fucks out there, and if we had the ability to weed them all out before they strike then he wouldn't have been able to make it far enough to have even ever encountered you and be part of your life.

However, EB makes an excellent point as well. There may very well be nothing there but the imaginations of two very young children that might not understand what they're saying.
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Offline Cable

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 03:12:44 PM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.



Correct. They also seek out lines of work/vocation to allow easier pickings. Hence Sandusky with his "charity work," clergy who have access to children, teachers and so on.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 03:22:04 PM »
I've actually considered posting before about something similar that's happened in my group of friends. There's a guy who entered the group a couple years ago, I'll call him Steve (not his real name), who we all got to know because he started dating a girl who we all knew. He's been pretty much as nice a guy as someone can be over this time. So at one point Steve was talking about how great his job is with regards to work schedule flexibility, and one of our other friends was curious and decided to google him and see where he works. Well, almost the entire first page of results is about him getting busted in a sting when he was in law school for soliciting sex from a 13 year old. Now, Steve wasn't convicted, and eventually re-enrolled in another law school (in the same area) and now works as a lawyer, so we're assuming there's some kind of story/explanation. Still, it's a little bit unsettling, and a few of us have discussed bringing up with him that we stumbled across it, but so far we've just gone about our business as if nothing happened.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 08:33:05 AM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.



Correct. They also seek out lines of work/vocation to allow easier pickings. Hence Sandusky with his "charity work," clergy who have access to children, teachers and so on.

This isn't the thread for argument, and as I have said, I'm DEEPLY appreciative for people sharing their stories to help me through this.  But the Sandusky thing strikes me as different; there WERE signs.  There WERE accusations.  There WERE people that had to know what was going on.    I feel like - and I very well know I may be rationalizing here, which is why I posted in the first place, and part of what is keeping me up at night - that wasn't the case.  So what, he DID work with kids.  He had kids.  His kids played with our kids (not just mine).   I even - at times - questioned my daughter about whether she wanted to see Tracy (NOT her real name) now that we've moved away.   It was the exact opposite of "not trusting instinct; not seeing the signs"; it was ACTIVE trust.  This was a guy you could TRUST.   There was never any locker room talk, there was never any questionable behavior.   There was never ANYTHING.  We used to be a member of a community pool, and when he had his kids (he and his wife were separated for a short time; official story was "she was finding herself", which I was going through at the time, so it seemed plausible.  The "builder" had just gone through a divorce where HIS WIFE had to "find herself") he would bring them.  Never any looks, never any comments...

Offline cramx3

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 08:50:37 AM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.



Correct. They also seek out lines of work/vocation to allow easier pickings. Hence Sandusky with his "charity work," clergy who have access to children, teachers and so on.

This isn't the thread for argument, and as I have said, I'm DEEPLY appreciative for people sharing their stories to help me through this.  But the Sandusky thing strikes me as different; there WERE signs.  There WERE accusations.  There WERE people that had to know what was going on.    I feel like - and I very well know I may be rationalizing here, which is why I posted in the first place, and part of what is keeping me up at night - that wasn't the case.  So what, he DID work with kids.  He had kids.  His kids played with our kids (not just mine).   I even - at times - questioned my daughter about whether she wanted to see Tracy (NOT her real name) now that we've moved away.   It was the exact opposite of "not trusting instinct; not seeing the signs"; it was ACTIVE trust.  This was a guy you could TRUST.   There was never any locker room talk, there was never any questionable behavior.   There was never ANYTHING.  We used to be a member of a community pool, and when he had his kids (he and his wife were separated for a short time; official story was "she was finding herself", which I was going through at the time, so it seemed plausible.  The "builder" had just gone through a divorce where HIS WIFE had to "find herself") he would bring them.  Never any looks, never any comments...

Was not trying to compare to Sandusky case directly because there were many differences, but that paper written is relevant as it shows how these people manage to get away with doing this type of thing by fooling people.  Written by someone who was abused as a child and was a FBI agent on child abuse.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 09:29:35 AM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.



Correct. They also seek out lines of work/vocation to allow easier pickings. Hence Sandusky with his "charity work," clergy who have access to children, teachers and so on.

This isn't the thread for argument, and as I have said, I'm DEEPLY appreciative for people sharing their stories to help me through this.  But the Sandusky thing strikes me as different; there WERE signs.  There WERE accusations.  There WERE people that had to know what was going on.    I feel like - and I very well know I may be rationalizing here, which is why I posted in the first place, and part of what is keeping me up at night - that wasn't the case.  So what, he DID work with kids.  He had kids.  His kids played with our kids (not just mine).   I even - at times - questioned my daughter about whether she wanted to see Tracy (NOT her real name) now that we've moved away.   It was the exact opposite of "not trusting instinct; not seeing the signs"; it was ACTIVE trust.  This was a guy you could TRUST.   There was never any locker room talk, there was never any questionable behavior.   There was never ANYTHING.  We used to be a member of a community pool, and when he had his kids (he and his wife were separated for a short time; official story was "she was finding herself", which I was going through at the time, so it seemed plausible.  The "builder" had just gone through a divorce where HIS WIFE had to "find herself") he would bring them.  Never any looks, never any comments...

Was not trying to compare to Sandusky case directly because there were many differences, but that paper written is relevant as it shows how these people manage to get away with doing this type of thing by fooling people.  Written by someone who was abused as a child and was a FBI agent on child abuse.

No need to explain, Cram; I am really just thinking out loud as much as anything.   I appreciate very much your input here. 

Offline Cable

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 09:52:56 AM »
Pretty easily actually.  Being a PSU alum, I know the Sandusky story way too well.  Sexual predators are very good at grooming and hiding their devious ways.



Correct. They also seek out lines of work/vocation to allow easier pickings. Hence Sandusky with his "charity work," clergy who have access to children, teachers and so on.

This isn't the thread for argument, and as I have said, I'm DEEPLY appreciative for people sharing their stories to help me through this.  But the Sandusky thing strikes me as different; there WERE signs.  There WERE accusations.  There WERE people that had to know what was going on.    I feel like - and I very well know I may be rationalizing here, which is why I posted in the first place, and part of what is keeping me up at night - that wasn't the case.  So what, he DID work with kids.  He had kids.  His kids played with our kids (not just mine).   I even - at times - questioned my daughter about whether she wanted to see Tracy (NOT her real name) now that we've moved away.   It was the exact opposite of "not trusting instinct; not seeing the signs"; it was ACTIVE trust.  This was a guy you could TRUST.   There was never any locker room talk, there was never any questionable behavior.   There was never ANYTHING.  We used to be a member of a community pool, and when he had his kids (he and his wife were separated for a short time; official story was "she was finding herself", which I was going through at the time, so it seemed plausible.  The "builder" had just gone through a divorce where HIS WIFE had to "find herself") he would bring them.  Never any looks, never any comments...


You asked "how does this happen?" so there is the answer.

In that you thought you could trust this person, that is what is so terrible about people with this level of deviance. The manipulation to obtain access to their twisted desires if part of the grooming game. The thrill of the hunt, and they will do whatever to get their messed up needs met. That is why they are in roles that allow access, and also why they gain trust and are charming. It is the gateway to their wants. There is a reason why serial murders are considered "smart," because it takes a certain level of intelligence to lie, manipulate and cover the warped behavior. This individual you knew is no different. I work with sex offenders, and the level of their behavior and manipulation is beyond drug offenders, most gang bangers and some murderers. There is a weird, flawed thought process that is evident when they are honest.

So whether there are signs or not, knowledge or not, the behaviors are similar. The individual you knew was maybe better perhaps than Sandusky at hiding his behaviors. Or maybe Sandusky didn't need to be, which yeah is a different problem with those around him. But it is the same messed up actions, and the thoughts and behaviors to indulge in the deviance are similar.

But I understand the shock, hatred and WTF of your emotions Stadler. This guy took everyone for a sick ride.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 12:08:32 PM »
Well, you got that right, with your last sentence.

I think what boggles me is the EFFORT that it takes.  I suppose it's nothing new - people that have affairs, people that have lived in the closet, people that work as spies, etc. - and it's not as if it's a "guilty pleasure" (hey guys, don't tell anyone, but I like Wham!; hey guys, don't tell anyone, but I like five year olds!).   I'm just baffled at how the fašade can be kept intact for years and years.   

Offline El Barto

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 01:11:46 PM »
It seems like everybody is surprised that the guy who gets his jollies off of 9 year olds doesn't have horns, a tail, and a forked tongue. Rarely are bad guys obvious about it. This applies to all criminals. "He seemed like a really nice guy. Great neighbor. Helped me in the yard after my back surgery." The concern that Stadler has, justified though it may be, has always existed in various manifestations. Rarely do people suspect the guy who has a crawlspace full of corpses or a bomb factory in the attic was a serial killer or a terrorist. Gacey and Bundy were both pretty nice guys, as I understand.

Concealing your dark side form the unsuspecting is simple. It's when people suspect and seek to learn what you're up to that deception becomes insanely hard.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2017, 01:15:39 PM »
It seems like everybody is surprised that the guy who gets his jollies off of 9 year olds doesn't have horns, a tail, and a forked tongue. Rarely are bad guys obvious about it. This applies to all criminals. "He seemed like a really nice guy. Great neighbor. Helped me in the yard after my back surgery." The concern that Stadler has, justified though it may be, has always existed in various manifestations. Rarely do people suspect the guy who has a crawlspace full of corpses or a bomb factory in the attic was a serial killer or a terrorist. Gacey and Bundy were both pretty nice guys, as I understand.

Concealing your dark side form the unsuspecting is simple. It's when people suspect and seek to learn what you're up to that deception becomes insanely hard.

It's also a matter of realizing people aren't black and white. A person who is doing those horrible horrible things, may also be a nice guy in other circumstances. A rapist helping you with a BBQ? Probably authentic. A serial killer baby sitting your kids? Probably doing so without ulterior motives. People can both be authentically nice, friendly, helpful, while also authentically being horrible in other domains.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2017, 01:33:09 PM »
It seems like everybody is surprised that the guy who gets his jollies off of 9 year olds doesn't have horns, a tail, and a forked tongue. Rarely are bad guys obvious about it. This applies to all criminals. "He seemed like a really nice guy. Great neighbor. Helped me in the yard after my back surgery." The concern that Stadler has, justified though it may be, has always existed in various manifestations. Rarely do people suspect the guy who has a crawlspace full of corpses or a bomb factory in the attic was a serial killer or a terrorist. Gacey and Bundy were both pretty nice guys, as I understand.

Concealing your dark side form the unsuspecting is simple. It's when people suspect and seek to learn what you're up to that deception becomes insanely hard.

It's also a matter of realizing people aren't black and white. A person who is doing those horrible horrible things, may also be a nice guy in other circumstances. A rapist helping you with a BBQ? Probably authentic. A serial killer baby sitting your kids? Probably doing so without ulterior motives. People can both be authentically nice, friendly, helpful, while also authentically being horrible in other domains.
Wow. Excellent point.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Tough Post, World Rocked (Sensitive Subject Matter)
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2017, 02:57:38 PM »
Yea very true