Author Topic: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?  (Read 1970 times)

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Offline MirrorMask

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Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« on: July 17, 2017, 12:20:02 PM »
I had the idea for this discussion quite a while, inspired partly by The Astonishing's storyline, but brought back to the front of my mind by a discussion in the DT section.

What do you think will remain of the "current" music a couple of generations from us? could we already predict it looking at classical music or the dawn of the modern music or we're still in uncharted territory?

I mean, I'm by no means an expert of music history, but I'd daresay that after the blues of the first half of 1900, after the war came the embryos of the "modern" music - Elvis first, and then the Beatles and Rolling Stones, and then eventually Black Sabbath starting all things metal.

Elvis is gone but could have been still here, half the Beatles are still here and 3/4 would without a murder, all the Rolling Stones are still here and Black Sabbath barely just retired. So logically all the bands and sub-genres that spawned from there, and the band spawned from the band spawned from the "elders", are still around. But what will remain of all of this two generations down the line?

Let me make a specific example: Wembley 1986. One of the most iconic concerts of one of the most beloved bands of all time - Queen. There will come a time, 150 years from now give or take (didn't make proper calculations), where *everyone* that attended that concert, and *every son or daughter* of those that attended that concert, will be dead. How many people will still cherish Freddie Mercury knowing exactly what he was all about?

How about the major acts of today... U2, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, same question, how good they will be remembered when no one alive will be able to say "My father / mother saw this band live"?

Also: how will the music survive? let's say that YouTube and Spotify are so huge and well estabilished that they are here to stay, how long the music of a mid sized band, even a niche band like our own Dream Theater, will remain in the catalog? today we can listen to a young and upcoming band on Spotify and see their video on YouTube, will people 100 years from now will be able to have even access to the music of a band that made a couple of albums and once got the luck to open for Iron Maiden?

And finally: will there be "legacy" bands who will carry on the music? today we still hear Beethoven's and Mozart's music in theatres. If the legalities and royalties would allow for it, could a label create, I quote the example made in the DT thread about the band name surviving the band members, the "Pink Floyd Legacy" and therefore go to the next level of cover bands? and could this apply also to solo artists? I mean, it's not an entirely crazy idea that 100 years from now, an endorsed "Pink Floyd Legacy band" tours. But what about Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen? how do you take a random dude 150 years from now and ask him to portray Dylan's or Springsteen's stories? could it just be like Elvis and probably those who are paying tribute to Michael Jackson now?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 01:11:04 PM »
I think it would already be really interesting to see how bands slowly drift into oblivion, except the few bands that beat the trend. I would think you could probably mine Spotify data for that purpose, and come up with some really cool stats.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 01:42:44 PM »
Rush will make a miraculous comeback in the year 2112.. :metal
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 01:49:50 PM »
Interesting thoughts

I don't think any of the music of today has a direct impact on people in 100 years.  As in, no one will listen to it anymore.  It will have inspired people who were inspired by those, as we see today, but I just don't think the bands of today will be (besides select few) something in the future.  Sadly.  I'd think whatever is out there will be preserved, and you'll be able to find and listen to the music, if you wanted, but no one will want to.  Music tastes will be so different that listening to this era will just be boring or uninteresting.  I hope I am wrong, but I think most of this generation has little interest in early 1900s music, so I don't see any reason why future generations won't feel the same about the music of today.  I'm not even sure how we will consume music in the future.  It may all be generated by robots (and this is a legit thing being worked on already, NOMACs  :omg:).

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 06:10:12 PM »
Nickelback

Much like twinkies, they are able to survive nuclear war
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 05:41:39 AM by Phoenix87x »

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 06:26:25 PM »
This kind of reminds me of a Steven Wilson interview that I seen a couple of years ago. It's not directly related, but he was saying something along the lines that everything that can be done musically has already been done. Everyone that comes along from here on out is just basically trying to put their own stamp on something that someone else has already created. I'm paraphrasing from memory, so I could be off a little. However, he does make an interesting point.

There will probably be trends where certain styles come back into style. In fact, it might even go through some sort of cycle that you'll be able to predict. An example is how disco actually made a come back in the late 90's. It wouldn't surprise me to see it resurface again in the mainstream in the mid 20's. I'm not exactly looking forward to it since I was around in the 70's for the original disco, but it was an easy example to pick up on.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 08:23:29 PM »
I've often thought about this. It trips me out that people still listen to Mozart, but good music endures. The classical composers are an interesting angle because we have no recordings of their original visions. We have sheet music that others interpret. It'd be fascinating to hand all the sheet music for ACoS over to a traditional Chinese orchestra and have them perform it based only on the paper they were given. Just like it'd be interesting to resurrect Beethoven and show him a video of Karajan conducting his 4th Symphony to see what he thinks. "That's not it at all! No! Slower you fool!"

In any case, I disagree with Steven Wilson. There is still new music out there, and new ways of playing it. New combinations of things to do and new people to inspire. I also think that, unlike Mendelssohn, there will be real recordings of our music. In the future somebody will find an old SSD with Rush's catalogue on it and decide "holy shit, this is great. I've got to play this for my friends. Well, maybe not this Hold Your Fire thing, but certainly the rest of it."
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 01:23:34 AM »
About what Steven Wilson says... it's hard to predict the future, but even though the styles of music may have not been all done, I think the instruments are these ones.

I mean, there will always be dance and electronic music, maybe even NOMACs music  :biggrin: but until people will want to play "real" music, regardless of the genre there will always be drums, guitars and keyboards, so there may be some kind of resemblance. I can't imagine some totally new instruments used by band whose inspiration is second-generation removed from Queen, Iron Maiden or U2, as long as musicians will want to perform live and not rely on electronic music, the instruments needed will be the ones bands are using now.
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Online ErHaO

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 05:00:46 AM »
I think some genres will keep returning (in different forms) to popularity over time, in-between generations. And as such, I think some prominent artists from the past in those genres will keep getting listeners to some extent. But it is hard to tell what will happen. Unlike music from, say, over 100 years ago, we now have good quality recordings of the original artist and they are accessible now more than ever. And the information about those artists with it is easily obtainable as well, especially if Youtube, Wikipedia, Spotify and the likes retain their data.

Technology and with it the spreading of information has changed, and is still changing, drastically, so I don't think looking back will give a clear answer what will happen to "our" music. I think even for some more niche genres/artists now, there will likely always be some people interested to go back and explore that music, and possibly even using it to make new productions or featuring it in something (film, show, commercial, whatever).

Offline Stadler

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 07:20:53 AM »
This kind of reminds me of a Steven Wilson interview that I seen a couple of years ago. It's not directly related, but he was saying something along the lines that everything that can be done musically has already been done. Everyone that comes along from here on out is just basically trying to put their own stamp on something that someone else has already created. I'm paraphrasing from memory, so I could be off a little. However, he does make an interesting point.

There will probably be trends where certain styles come back into style. In fact, it might even go through some sort of cycle that you'll be able to predict. An example is how disco actually made a come back in the late 90's. It wouldn't surprise me to see it resurface again in the mainstream in the mid 20's. I'm not exactly looking forward to it since I was around in the 70's for the original disco, but it was an easy example to pick up on.


I disagree with Steven, respectfully.   People were likely saying this in 1920, and lo and behold, about ten years later, this weird thing called an "electric guitar" came around.  I don't think anyone will argue with you if you tell them that 80 years after that, there are still new things being done with it (Yngwie, Edge, Morello).  We may have hit the wall with the instruments and equipment we have now, but I can envision a world where music is made in ways we can't even conceptualize at this point.

Music is a form of communication, albeit emotional communication.   I think as long as humans (or any other species, for that matter) have need to communicate and to share emotional connection, we will have music.   And as long as males of said species want to get laid, we will innovate that communication. 

Offline cramx3

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 07:41:25 AM »
Yea I also disagree with Steven Wilson.  I saw this reggae band over the weekend, The Skints, and the keyboardist used this instrument I had never seen before.  I doubt it is new, but just new to me.  On top of her keyboard was another pad that she would hit with a drum stick and it would play sounds, usually pew pew types of noises to fit that reggae style of music they were playing.  It wasn't the sound that was new, but the way she was using the instrument, with a drum stick.  It was really cool, and to me, innnovative.  I'm not saying she was the first (I doubt it) but just a new experience of music and how to use an instrument.  The innovation doesn't end here.  Humans will continue to not only find new instruments and new sounds, but new ways to play those instruments and manipulate those sounds.  The ever increasing digital world we live in also leads to easier ways of manipulating noise.  Maybe eventually we do reach a point where everysound that the human ear is capable of hearing has been heard and manipulated.  But who knows, maybe by then we all wear ear pieces that allow us to hear microwaves.

Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 08:35:10 AM »
it will be niche, just as early blues and Jazz is niche now.

Can't really say, but if technology keeps going, listening and watching music recordings may become more virtual.

There is also the theory that older blues, folk, classical music will be the norm as styles come back.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 08:40:31 AM »
Interesting topic. On a related note - I read somewhere the other day, some of the biggest tours of the last couple years have been acts like U2, Metallica, Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Guns n Roses, etc.. Basically all bands that have been around for over 30 years.

It got me thinking, if those are still the acts that are resonating with the masses like they are, who's next? Once those bands phase out in the next decade or so, what then? I get that there is a ton of great new music, so I'm not saying people aren't making great music any more, but those iconic bands, I don't see them now. What was the last iconic band that really changed the game the way AC/DC, the Stones, Metallica, etc... did? Radiohead maybe? They aren't exactly new...

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 09:00:01 AM »
I've often thought about this. It trips me out that people still listen to Mozart, but good music endures. The classical composers are an interesting angle because we have no recordings of their original visions. We have sheet music that others interpret. It'd be fascinating to hand all the sheet music for ACoS over to a traditional Chinese orchestra and have them perform it based only on the paper they were given. Just like it'd be interesting to resurrect Beethoven and show him a video of Karajan conducting his 4th Symphony to see what he thinks. "That's not it at all! No! Slower you fool!"

In any case, I disagree with Steven Wilson. There is still new music out there, and new ways of playing it. New combinations of things to do and new people to inspire. I also think that, unlike Mendelssohn, there will be real recordings of our music. In the future somebody will find an old SSD with Rush's catalogue on it and decide "holy shit, this is great. I've got to play this for my friends. Well, maybe not this Hold Your Fire thing, but certainly the rest of it."

 I've always thought about this a lot. Imagine if what orchestras are playing is not how they intended it to sound.
 They had to make do with what sounds were available to them at the time. Now we have access to a vast amount of sounds, some are still not readily accessible.
 Imagine how they're songs would sound if they had that access to those sounds. I bet good money it'd sound like a different song all together.

That reason is why I enjoy when bands do covers in a different light. Which comes to the topic point, bands will end up doing different styles of old songs. It's already happening.

Or it'll just be https://youtu.be/40vhG9KAQCk
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 09:06:56 AM »
Interesting topic. On a related note - I read somewhere the other day, some of the biggest tours of the last couple years have been acts like U2, Metallica, Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Guns n Roses, etc.. Basically all bands that have been around for over 30 years.

It got me thinking, if those are still the acts that are resonating with the masses like they are, who's next? Once those bands phase out in the next decade or so, what then? I get that there is a ton of great new music, so I'm not saying people aren't making great music any more, but those iconic bands, I don't see them now. What was the last iconic band that really changed the game the way AC/DC, the Stones, Metallica, etc... did? Radiohead maybe? They aren't exactly new...

I think music is not as popular as it used to be.  Concert attendance is waining across the board.  Those bands all have a large older audience that will go and also have the younger audience too.  These newer bands don't have the older audience and only have a smaller younger audience compared to the younger audience that was seeing those bands 20-30 years ago.  I dont have data to back that up, just what I am thinking.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 09:37:18 AM »
Interesting topic. On a related note - I read somewhere the other day, some of the biggest tours of the last couple years have been acts like U2, Metallica, Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Guns n Roses, etc.. Basically all bands that have been around for over 30 years.

It got me thinking, if those are still the acts that are resonating with the masses like they are, who's next? Once those bands phase out in the next decade or so, what then? I get that there is a ton of great new music, so I'm not saying people aren't making great music any more, but those iconic bands, I don't see them now. What was the last iconic band that really changed the game the way AC/DC, the Stones, Metallica, etc... did? Radiohead maybe? They aren't exactly new...

I think music is not as popular as it used to be.  Concert attendance is waining across the board.  Those bands all have a large older audience that will go and also have the younger audience too.  These newer bands don't have the older audience and only have a smaller younger audience compared to the younger audience that was seeing those bands 20-30 years ago.  I dont have data to back that up, just what I am thinking.

I agree, kinda scary to think about to a degree.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2017, 09:41:56 AM »
Interesting topic. On a related note - I read somewhere the other day, some of the biggest tours of the last couple years have been acts like U2, Metallica, Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Guns n Roses, etc.. Basically all bands that have been around for over 30 years.

It got me thinking, if those are still the acts that are resonating with the masses like they are, who's next? Once those bands phase out in the next decade or so, what then? I get that there is a ton of great new music, so I'm not saying people aren't making great music any more, but those iconic bands, I don't see them now. What was the last iconic band that really changed the game the way AC/DC, the Stones, Metallica, etc... did? Radiohead maybe? They aren't exactly new...

I think music is not as popular as it used to be.  Concert attendance is waining across the board.  Those bands all have a large older audience that will go and also have the younger audience too.  These newer bands don't have the older audience and only have a smaller younger audience compared to the younger audience that was seeing those bands 20-30 years ago.  I dont have data to back that up, just what I am thinking.

I also think it's too new.   Look, I'm old enough to wear that shirt "I know I'm old, but I got to see all the cool bands!".   When I was listening to Maiden's Number of the Beast for the first time, I was not at all thinking "they will be epic; they will tour stadia around the world without an album and will put out an epic double album 35 years into their career!"

About the only band you sort of knew was something really legacy building was "Van Halen", and because of Eddie's playing (certainly NOT Dave, as much as I love him).    U2 was special, in their own way, but it bordered on gimmick; when Bono went in the crowd at Live Aid to dance with the fan to... I forget but I think it was a Stones snippet within Bad) he offered to quit the band because he felt he blew the band's big moment.

You have to give it the 30 years to know who will still be here (and G'n'R is my proof of that; did anyone really see epic stadia tours seven years ago?  I didn't.)   

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2017, 10:52:03 AM »
Yes Cram! When you saw The Skints the instrument Marcia was likely playing was the melodica (think that's how you spell it). It's like a keyboard combined with a recorder, or something.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2017, 11:00:10 AM »
Yes Cram! When you saw The Skints the instrument Marcia was likely playing was the melodica (think that's how you spell it). It's like a keyboard combined with a recorder, or something.

That's actually not even the instrument I was referring to, but still same point  :lol  She was extremely talented.  I think she played 4 different instruments, or 5 if you include vocals.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 11:04:21 AM »
Yes Cram! When you saw The Skints the instrument Marcia was likely playing was the melodica (think that's how you spell it). It's like a keyboard combined with a recorder, or something.

That's actually not even the instrument I was referring to, but still same point  :lol  She was extremely talented.  I think she played 4 different instruments, or 5 if you include vocals.

Ok yea, you were on about the drum pad thingy. My mistake, carry on :lol

Offline cramx3

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 11:12:01 AM »
Yes Cram! When you saw The Skints the instrument Marcia was likely playing was the melodica (think that's how you spell it). It's like a keyboard combined with a recorder, or something.

That's actually not even the instrument I was referring to, but still same point  :lol  She was extremely talented.  I think she played 4 different instruments, or 5 if you include vocals.

Ok yea, you were on about the drum pad thingy. My mistake, carry on :lol

Honestly, was so amazed at the drum pad thingy.  I dont know why, but seeing someone sing, play the keyboard on one hand, and bang on the pad making all these crazy sounds with the other hand really had me in awe.  And it's things like that which will keep music fresh because it's different.  People will continue to be innovative.

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2017, 02:32:00 PM »
I've often thought about this. It trips me out that people still listen to Mozart, but good music endures. The classical composers are an interesting angle because we have no recordings of their original visions. We have sheet music that others interpret. It'd be fascinating to hand all the sheet music for ACoS over to a traditional Chinese orchestra and have them perform it based only on the paper they were given. Just like it'd be interesting to resurrect Beethoven and show him a video of Karajan conducting his 4th Symphony to see what he thinks. "That's not it at all! No! Slower you fool!"
Even though the idea irks me a little personally, I could totally see cover bands and tribute acts becoming the norm in the future and keeping the classic pop and rock music in the consciousness of future generations, just like orchestras are still playing Mozart and Beethoven around the world.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »
Well, we have already plenty of cover bands of active touring acts, if at all, it would be more justified to have them in the future when the actual original bands will be dead.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 08:08:52 AM »
What about Paul Stanley's statement that he believes Kiss (as a band) will survive him and Gene?  Is that mock humility?  Or something more?    You all know me as a Kiss fan boy, but I have a secret suspicion that they've already appeared at least once with dopplegangers in for Gene and/or Paul.   I can't prove it, and I can't point to any one moment, but I feel like there has been an official appearance somewhere where it wasn't actually the man whose fingerprints come back to "Chaim Witz" or "Stanley Eisen" standing there. 

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 08:37:19 AM »
I'm not saying that it's impossible, I could see that happening, but... in a world full of passionate fans that know KISS inside out, and with everyone having a camera or a cellphone in one's hand, shouldn't that be something that would be noticed in zero time? The make up can be made by any fan the exact way, but the facial features are Stanley's and Simmons'...
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Offline LordCost

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2017, 02:16:52 PM »
This kind of reminds me of a Steven Wilson interview that I seen a couple of years ago. It's not directly related, but he was saying something along the lines that everything that can be done musically has already been done. Everyone that comes along from here on out is just basically trying to put their own stamp on something that someone else has already created. I'm paraphrasing from memory, so I could be off a little. However, he does make an interesting point.

There will probably be trends where certain styles come back into style. In fact, it might even go through some sort of cycle that you'll be able to predict. An example is how disco actually made a come back in the late 90's. It wouldn't surprise me to see it resurface again in the mainstream in the mid 20's. I'm not exactly looking forward to it since I was around in the 70's for the original disco, but it was an easy example to pick up on.

I disagree too to Steven Wilson. In the last 50 years I think there have been more new genres in music than all the history before. And it is sufficient to listening to some experimental or avant garde groups of today to hear some things never heard before. For example last week I discovered Igorrr and I don't think that existed something similar before he invented it.

I like to buy my favourite albums because I imagine that I could play them to someone in 50 years and show them what I loved in that period. I don't know what will happen to old songs not listened anymore in platforms like Spotify, but I fear they will be deleted at some time. There are already some albums I cannot find in the web apart from Discogs (I remember searching an album from the band Miocene for some days without finding anything. It's practically a lost piece of music) and when I find some obscure things I'm really happy because I save them from oblivion and have them with me "forever" (for example I was able to find the cassettes of 1980 of Cardiacs, including songs that Wikipedia considered lost and present only in few copies sold in that period).

Offline ytserush

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Re: Our music in the distant future: what will remain?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2017, 10:46:13 AM »
I had the idea for this discussion quite a while, inspired partly by The Astonishing's storyline, but brought back to the front of my mind by a discussion in the DT section.

What do you think will remain of the "current" music a couple of generations from us? could we already predict it looking at classical music or the dawn of the modern music or we're still in uncharted territory?

I mean, I'm by no means an expert of music history, but I'd daresay that after the blues of the first half of 1900, after the war came the embryos of the "modern" music - Elvis first, and then the Beatles and Rolling Stones, and then eventually Black Sabbath starting all things metal.

Elvis is gone but could have been still here, half the Beatles are still here and 3/4 would without a murder, all the Rolling Stones are still here and Black Sabbath barely just retired. So logically all the bands and sub-genres that spawned from there, and the band spawned from the band spawned from the "elders", are still around. But what will remain of all of this two generations down the line?

Let me make a specific example: Wembley 1986. One of the most iconic concerts of one of the most beloved bands of all time - Queen. There will come a time, 150 years from now give or take (didn't make proper calculations), where *everyone* that attended that concert, and *every son or daughter* of those that attended that concert, will be dead. How many people will still cherish Freddie Mercury knowing exactly what he was all about?

How about the major acts of today... U2, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, same question, how good they will be remembered when no one alive will be able to say "My father / mother saw this band live"?

Also: how will the music survive? let's say that YouTube and Spotify are so huge and well estabilished that they are here to stay, how long the music of a mid sized band, even a niche band like our own Dream Theater, will remain in the catalog? today we can listen to a young and upcoming band on Spotify and see their video on YouTube, will people 100 years from now will be able to have even access to the music of a band that made a couple of albums and once got the luck to open for Iron Maiden?

And finally: will there be "legacy" bands who will carry on the music? today we still hear Beethoven's and Mozart's music in theatres. If the legalities and royalties would allow for it, could a label create, I quote the example made in the DT thread about the band name surviving the band members, the "Pink Floyd Legacy" and therefore go to the next level of cover bands? and could this apply also to solo artists? I mean, it's not an entirely crazy idea that 100 years from now, an endorsed "Pink Floyd Legacy band" tours. But what about Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen? how do you take a random dude 150 years from now and ask him to portray Dylan's or Springsteen's stories? could it just be like Elvis and probably those who are paying tribute to Michael Jackson now?

Not a hell of a lot is going to survive unfortunately.