Author Topic: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently  (Read 3680 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 4064
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2017, 11:38:52 AM »
A bit of a newb question here, but what does a click track sounds like?

I would assume it's like a metronome, keeping the time with little "hits" like when a drummer counts in a song, to keep the drummer in time. Depending on the song, along the click there may be also pre-programmed stuff like additional instruments or a backing track, which will come in at the right moment since the drummer follows the precise time he's hearing in his headphones.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4107
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2017, 12:52:29 PM »
I'd ask for proof of this. With a click, MM can't just adjust things. So either they turned it off, or you misheard what happened.

Probably turned it off if that went down that way.

A bit of a newb question here, but what does a click track sounds like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ii1YRFwns

I would assume it's like a metronome, keeping the time with little "hits" like when a drummer counts in a song, to keep the drummer in time. Depending on the song, along the click there may be also pre-programmed stuff like additional instruments or a backing track, which will come in at the right moment since the drummer follows the precise time he's hearing in his headphones.

I mean we are kinda getting into semantics here, but technically I consider a click track to be just that and only that. It can have accents on downbeats, maybe even count-ins, but it's just a click. Beyond that, the other things you mentioned are getting into loops, backing tracks, whatever you want to call them on top of the click track.

Offline Dublagent66

  • RIP My Love 1964 - 2016
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6637
  • Gender: Male
  • I will see you on the other side...
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2017, 01:40:05 PM »
MM is the timekeeper.  Everyone else does their part based on his accuracy.  That's pretty much the bottom line.

Technically, the click track is the timekeeper. That is, if he wanted, JP could play with nothing but the click track and his guitar in the mix, and he'd still be fine.

Technically, but I'm old school.  It's still the drummer's responsibility to keep everyone on track with song.  It's always been that way.
Everything that CAN go wrong, WILL go wrong ...and if nothing has gone wrong...you obviously DON'T UNDERSTAND the situation.

"Bow your heads and abandon hope."   -Symphony X - Reign in Madness

Offline Evai

  • Posts: 220
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2017, 02:12:25 PM »
Does JP have harmony tracks playing with some of his solos? I seem to remember seeing that but I could be imagining. If so, that'd make it impossible for Mangini to adjust for Labrie coming in early (unless the tracks are triggered manually)
Seas increase. And then fall again (that's called decreasing)

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4107
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2017, 02:18:16 PM »
Does JP have harmony tracks playing with some of his solos? I seem to remember seeing that but I could be imagining. If so, that'd make it impossible for Mangini to adjust for Labrie coming in early (unless the tracks are triggered manually)

Depends on the song, sometime yes, sometimes no. Hard to tell if he's looping that in as a track or if he's using the AxeFx in his rig for that stuff and stomping it on and off as needed.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26220
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2017, 02:38:22 PM »
A bit of a newb question here, but what does a click track sounds like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ii1YRFwns


That is of course the prototype of a click track, but these days they can be rather elaborate affairs. Gavin Harrison wrote an article about the design of click tracks:

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/creating-click-tracks-drummers

He puts all kinds on stuff into them to help him navigate the song.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Evai

  • Posts: 220
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2017, 04:16:51 PM »
Does JP have harmony tracks playing with some of his solos? I seem to remember seeing that but I could be imagining. If so, that'd make it impossible for Mangini to adjust for Labrie coming in early (unless the tracks are triggered manually)

Depends on the song, sometime yes, sometimes no. Hard to tell if he's looping that in as a track or if he's using the AxeFx in his rig for that stuff and stomping it on and off as needed.

I actually spoke to Petrucci about this, suprisingly it's neither backing tracks or the AxeFX.  Apparently he tends to write his solos at a high enough speed, that it allows him to time warp and play harmony with himself  :tup
Seas increase. And then fall again (that's called decreasing)

Offline wrighty

  • Posts: 38
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2017, 05:24:33 PM »
With the time signature changes in DT's music, I can't see how if they're using a click track they can 'follow the singer' if there happens to be a mistake.  'Lost not Forgotten' springs to mind.

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4107
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2017, 07:12:39 AM »
A bit of a newb question here, but what does a click track sounds like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ii1YRFwns


That is of course the prototype of a click track, but these days they can be rather elaborate affairs. Gavin Harrison wrote an article about the design of click tracks:

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/creating-click-tracks-drummers

He puts all kinds on stuff into them to help him navigate the song.

For sure, what I posted was the most basic of click tracks.

Really cool article, good read. Interesting how much detail he puts into his click tracks.

Offline ToT-147

  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
  • Living out this Utopian Dream..
    • Strange DT Vids
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2017, 05:33:24 PM »
With the time signature changes in DT's music, I can't see how if they're using a click track they can 'follow the singer' if there happens to be a mistake.  'Lost not Forgotten' springs to mind.

Yup, this..
UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
Google Play goo.gl/AjKEWm iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3p2WSYL5tQ (Lyric video)

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2017, 12:06:14 PM »
Remember that video where Portnoy got annoyed because Labrie started singing a later part in the song, skipping a long instrumental section? Or when something went weird in Pull Me Under and they had to stop and start over? JP probably still has nightmares and this helps prevent it happening

If Petrucci or another band member can't hear LaBrie screw up then wouldn't that be a potential train wreck?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how those in-ear monitors work. Are they like ear plugs that block outside noise? I'd want to be able to hear the singer if I were playing live.

Here's that Metropolis Part I video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_RuBLCPPjk

As for comments about Petrucci not being honest...If Petrucci doesn't like LaBrie's singing, then why would he even say there's no vocals in his live mix? He could've just lied and said he has vocals in the mix or not even mentioned the vocal presence at all.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 12:12:54 PM by Herrick »
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline ToT-147

  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
  • Living out this Utopian Dream..
    • Strange DT Vids
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2017, 08:41:02 PM »
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how those in-ear monitors work. Are they like ear plugs that block outside noise? I'd want to be able to hear the singer if I were playing live.

No, they're mixes of all the band, except, like in this case, if you don't want a particular instrument to be in it.. But yeah, normally they serve the musician to hear everything..

As for comments about Petrucci not being honest...If Petrucci doesn't like LaBrie's singing, then why would he even say there's no vocals in his live mix? He could've just lied and said he has vocals in the mix or not even mentioned the vocal presence at all.

Or... he might not like it and being implicitly honest by bringing that up..
UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
Google Play goo.gl/AjKEWm iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3p2WSYL5tQ (Lyric video)

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2017, 09:06:42 PM »

No, they're mixes of all the band, except, like in this case, if you don't want a particular instrument to be in it.. But yeah, normally they serve the musician to hear everything.

Makes sense. So he can hear LaBrie. Still not sure how keeping LaBrie out of the mix would help to avoid screwups though.

Or... he might not like it and being implicitly honest by bringing that up..

Possible but unlikely.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4107
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2017, 08:52:07 AM »

No, they're mixes of all the band, except, like in this case, if you don't want a particular instrument to be in it.. But yeah, normally they serve the musician to hear everything.

Makes sense. So he can hear LaBrie. Still not sure how keeping LaBrie out of the mix would help to avoid screwups though.

John explained how. With James walking all over the stage, if JP had James' vocal mic turned up too much in his ears, he'd get constant bleed depending on where James was on stage. For example he'd get more drum bleed if James set his mic on the stand next to the kit, or tons of crowd noise when James turns his mic to the audience to let them sing. Basically, by having James very low in his mix, his mix stays consistent and very dialed in.

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 7753
  • Gender: Male
  • Do a nice one for grandma
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2017, 09:22:38 PM »
An in-ear mix really only helps the player keep in time with the other musicians, and know where they're in the song. Ex. JM has his bass and MM drums high in the mix (only speculation). Every musician is different and some enjoy hearing everyone.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

I Love You...Poppin Fresh

Offline Herrick

  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello Mangs
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2017, 12:05:11 AM »

No, they're mixes of all the band, except, like in this case, if you don't want a particular instrument to be in it.. But yeah, normally they serve the musician to hear everything.

Makes sense. So he can hear LaBrie. Still not sure how keeping LaBrie out of the mix would help to avoid screwups though.

John explained how. With James walking all over the stage, if JP had James' vocal mic turned up too much in his ears, he'd get constant bleed depending on where James was on stage. For example he'd get more drum bleed if James set his mic on the stand next to the kit, or tons of crowd noise when James turns his mic to the audience to let them sing. Basically, by having James very low in his mix, his mix stays consistent and very dialed in.

The type of screwup I was talking about was the one Evai referenced in Metroplis Part I where LaBrie started singing when the band was supposed to do an instrumental section. Evai also mentioned a performance of Pull Me Under but I don't know about that one.
DISPLAY thy Breasts, My Julia!

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 4064
  • Gender: Male
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2017, 01:03:40 AM »
It wasn't really an instrumental section per se, more the usual jam at the end of Metropolis to allow James to say "thank you, you've been great, blablabla" before going into "Before the leaves are fallen".

It's not that he forgot a big chunk of a studio version song, he simply skipped over something additional, still a mistake, but quite funny in indsight  :D
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1603
Re: JP has no JLB vocals in his live mix apparently
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2017, 09:16:01 PM »
The band had been doing chats/jams during that extended bridge for something like 10 years by then. However, they had not played Metropolis in any form in 6 days, closing the previous two shows with LtL, and had not played Metropolis from the top in 2˝ months. James was really audibly ill that night. Like, that was one of his worst nights between 2000 and 2016. They were concerned about recovering by Score (3 days later), and that night was not exactly an easy set. Score adds another layer of confusion: this was basically rehearsal for the encore of Score, which was to be played more or less as it was on the album, creating potential for misunderstanding. In addition, Hudson Music had been filming that whole show, which probably made some things just a little bit off. So, I think that, between being anxious to end the show, and being a bit distracted by illness and everything that was going on that night, James had a brain fart.

It sounded like a worse mistake because JP and MP had successfully transitioned into the next part, which was supposed to begin with mostly JM, with some twinkling by Jordan and some jibba-jabba. This made it sound like JP and MP completely lost where they were and dropped out for a second, when in reality they had done everything right.

Interestingly, if neither JP nor MP had JLB in their IEMs, they would have gone longer before realizing his mistake. Who knows what that would've sounded/looked like. Something similar happened in 2012. I have to wonder if JP would've kept going if he wasn't paying close attention, and how he knew to bring it back to the top of the verse.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"