Author Topic: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?  (Read 1908 times)

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Offline wrighty

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Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« on: July 15, 2017, 06:50:04 AM »
Stupid question, or is it...

Can a band such as Dream Theater be a legally defined entity, independent of whoever happens to be playing in the band at the time?  Is there any reason that when JP and JM retire from the band that they can't be replaced, leaving DT with no original members, but they still write, record, tour, and play a mix of new and old material?

When MP left he may have been thought irreplaceable, but he wasn't.

Some bands are defined by a constant line-up throughout their full existence.  Rush (except for the first album) and Queen spring to mind.  Others change personnel every record.  DT are somewhere in between, with if my counting is correct, 9 members so far on the records, so roughly one replacement every 3 or 4 records, or on average every 7 years.  Could this continue for ever, with new people coming in whenever one leaves, such that we'll have a Dream Theater as a living entity in 2067?

Offline Zook

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 07:20:51 AM »
I believe the band DGM consists of no original members. Their name in fact has an initial of one of the founders, so they wouldn't be the only band.

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 07:27:08 AM »
If they do it gradually so that one new member at a time becomes established before the next one goes, then yes, in theory DT could keep going ad infinitum. They've replaced members already, so there's nothing stopping them doing it again and again and again. Of course, they're probably past the stage where the original members can lap themselves by all quitting one by one over the course of several years, then the original lineup getting back together again but unable to use the name Dream Theater because the original band they were in is Dream Theater.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 07:50:45 AM »
Of course every band could go on forever replacing the members one by one.

But why would they? a band is not an institution or even a government... popes and presidents come and go, but a band starts with an idea of certain members, what's the point in going to see whoever has been considered to play good enough like John Petrucci in 2030? would you all go to see "the Beatles" if the band had lived on with said members rotation, with both living members dropping out as well? how many people cared for the "bogus Deep Purple" with only the original singer, at a time when the classic line-up seemed dead and gone?
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Offline Art

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 08:38:45 AM »
I think i saw a Gene Simmons interview talking about doing that with Kiss.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 09:38:55 AM »
I think i saw a Gene Simmons interview talking about doing that with Kiss.

Well, they already replaced two original members with other musicians wearing the same make-up and essentially portraying the same stage characters. With Dream Theater it's all about the music, unless the management in charge of "Operation DT forever" wants to go look for a guitarist that will grow a longass beard and an asian bassist who is ok with wearing black for 20 years.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 09:53:45 AM »
I think i saw a Gene Simmons interview talking about doing that with Kiss.

That's just a Gene selling point for using a fake Ace and fake Peter.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2017, 09:58:28 AM »
I think i saw a Gene Simmons interview talking about doing that with Kiss.

That's just a Gene selling point for using a fake Ace and fake Peter.

Maybe, but if he thought that he could keep making money off of the deal well after his retirement then I'm sure that it wouldn't phase him a single bit to do it.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 10:10:49 AM »
There is some truth to that.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline wrighty

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 10:37:47 AM »
I didn't know about Kiss, but I suppose it would be easier for them as they (mostly at least) played as characters, a bit like Alice Cooper.  Another, far more lame example, was the Village People - no-one knew who they were, and they could get anyone to dress up as a builder, motorcycle cop etc.

My point about DT I suppose was to ask if any of them are irreplaceable?  I think if JM left it wouldn't be much of a problem and we could have 'the spirit carries on part II', but right now if JP, JLB or JR wanted to quit I suspect the band would fold.  If MM left would the other MM get the call?

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 10:41:40 AM »
Petrucci cannot be replaced. As main songwriter without him just it isn't DT anymore. Jordan's loss would be a huge blow as well, but maybe a blow that could be survived more than the eventual departure of JP.

Should James leave with JP and JR remaining, it would sound like "Dream Theater but with another singer" (well, d'uh). Something would be way off.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 11:45:36 AM »
No.


But another band with no original members anymore is also Stratovarious.
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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 02:25:28 PM »
It could be called the Dream Theater Legacy.  Foreigner only has one original member left and the name could live on. Boston is down to the original founding member Tom Scholz, although Gary Pihl has been with them for a long time (pun intended), and is a great guitar player.
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Offline Pragmaticcircus

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 07:12:06 PM »
At over 100 yrs old?  :rollin
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Offline Evai

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2017, 08:26:58 AM »
Someone didn't read the first post  :police:
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Offline V_R11

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 04:57:23 AM »
I don't really see them doing that. And I don't even want them to. Even more than anyone else, I consider Petrucci the key member. When he retires that's it. It's no longer Dream Theater
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 06:10:57 AM »
I don't really see them doing that. And I don't even want them to. Even more than anyone else, I consider Petrucci the key member. When he retires that's it. It's no longer Dream Theater

/thread
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 06:37:57 AM »
I do wonder if, for example, 100 years from now, the various record labels will put together replica bands of their most popular acts to tour around America and Europe. Maybe by then, no one will care anymore, but I could also see a situation where it would be fairly profitable for an officially commissioned Pink Floyd cover band to play some shows and satisfy demand for those songs.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 06:47:30 AM »
I do wonder if, for example, 100 years from now, the various record labels will put together replica bands of their most popular acts to tour around America and Europe. Maybe by then, no one will care anymore, but I could also see a situation where it would be fairly profitable for an officially commissioned Pink Floyd cover band to play some shows and satisfy demand for those songs.

That's actually a quite interesting topic for a discussion. Could Gilmour put something like this into his will, or eventually after X decades the rights to the songs will revert back to the label? I'm ignorant about this, could it be like classical music (who owns the right to Beethoven's nine symphonies?) and we would have people watching performances of long dead Beatles, Stones and Floyd just like we watch Mozart's music in theatres?
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 06:49:56 AM »
I do wonder if, for example, 100 years from now, the various record labels will put together replica bands of their most popular acts to tour around America and Europe. Maybe by then, no one will care anymore, but I could also see a situation where it would be fairly profitable for an officially commissioned Pink Floyd cover band to play some shows and satisfy demand for those songs.

That's actually a quite interesting topic for a discussion. Could Gilmour put something like this into his will, or eventually after X decades the rights to the songs will revert back to the label? I'm ignorant about this, could it be like classical music (who owns the right to Beethoven's nine symphonies?) and we would have people watching performances of long dead Beatles, Stones and Floyd just like we watch Mozart's music in theatres?

That is a really interesting topic. I think the rights would vary from artist to artist the way they have their deals set up. A band like Metallica, for example, now owns the masters to all their albums because they started their own label. 

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 06:52:53 AM »
As others have said, I believe JP is irreplaceable and the band would not continue without him as he is the main songwriter and soloist.  The others are replaceable, not sure why people would suggest that the band would fold without JR when they existed before he joined and many consider their classic albums are pre-JR with the possible exception of SFAM.

The band would certainly sound different if JLB left as he has such a distinctive style but don't think they would necessarily fold, it was a pretty arduous process to find him in the first place though so would be interesting to see if they wanted to go through that again.  I still think Portnoy will be back at some stage.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 07:07:00 AM »
I'm not so sure about it. When DT will become so old that it will become a special occasion to see them, he may be seen around again, but until they're an "active" band that writes records every 2-3 years, tours and plays new songs, my guess is that they will continue with Mangini.

And Rudess and LaBrie may not be irreplaceable in the sense that DT would quit over them - but the change (especially without James) would be so different that something would feel quite off about it.
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Offline bill1971

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2017, 09:55:11 AM »
I remember Rick Wakeman said something similar about Yes, that it would keep continuing on with ever changing members. For DT if either Petrucci or Labrie left it would not be DT anymore. Main song writer and the voice.

Offline wrighty

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2017, 11:57:35 AM »
I do wonder if, for example, 100 years from now, the various record labels will put together replica bands of their most popular acts to tour around America and Europe. Maybe by then, no one will care anymore, but I could also see a situation where it would be fairly profitable for an officially commissioned Pink Floyd cover band to play some shows and satisfy demand for those songs.

That's actually a quite interesting topic for a discussion. Could Gilmour put something like this into his will, or eventually after X decades the rights to the songs will revert back to the label? I'm ignorant about this, could it be like classical music (who owns the right to Beethoven's nine symphonies?) and we would have people watching performances of long dead Beatles, Stones and Floyd just like we watch Mozart's music in theatres?

I've thought about this before. When you go to a piano recital you don't demand your money back because Mr Rachmaninov himself is nor performing the C#min prelude. It's a bit like it with Queen now - they're still going with another singer, but there's an official cover band doing the rounds and several unofficial tribute bands of varying quality. Don't know if DT are popular enough to do the same in the future as unlike Queen their appeal is fairly niche. Beatles, Stones and Floyd however probably are.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 12:21:13 PM »
I've created a topic about this in the General Music section, since I felt it was worth its own thread.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 01:52:57 PM »
I don't really see them doing that. And I don't even want them to. Even more than anyone else, I consider Petrucci the key member. When he retires that's it. It's no longer Dream Theater
Pretty much this.  But the sort of thing the OP mentions happens so rarely and through such typically unforseeable circumstances that I don't know how you would go about trying to predict something like that.  I think you have to have a couple of things converge that are key.  One is younger members coming into the band that want to carry on the legacy.  And another is that you have to have songs and a brand that are financially worth keeping intact and carrying on. 

Could the first circumstance arise?  I'm not seeing it as something highly likely, but it's possible.  Like, let's say Portnoy some day came back to the band down the road at some point, but then a bit further down the line, he decided to retire, and the guys brought in Max Portnoy to fill in and he eventually became full-time.  Or let's say James maybe calls it quits one day and they then bring in a younger singer who can belt out all of the notes to I&W as only 20-something year old can, and then that guy stays in the band over the years as they gradually replace members.  Unlikely.  But it could happen.

But as to the second circumstance, I don't see it.  I mean, this isn't a knock on DT, but I just don't see the "DT brand" as being strong enough that people 30 years from now are going to want to hear the songs.  This is a band that have done well for themselves.  But they aren't some huge entity where the name alone draws in huge crowds wherever they go. 
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Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2017, 08:20:44 AM »
I think i saw a Gene Simmons interview talking about doing that with Kiss.

Well, they already replaced two original members with other musicians wearing the same make-up and essentially portraying the same stage characters. With Dream Theater it's all about the music, unless the management in charge of "Operation DT forever" wants to go look for a guitarist that will grow a longass beard and an asian bassist who is ok with wearing black for 20 years.

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2017, 08:27:34 AM »
What about holographs?  Isn't there supposed to be a Dio holograph concert?  If that becomes a thing in the future, maybe bands will love in digitally with a backing band touring.  Who knows.  But I definitely could see record labels and concert promoters getting creative if they had to, but I'm going to guess they won't have to.  New bands will come and old ones will fade.  Most people aren't going to be interested in seeing Dream Theater with no original members in 50 years from now anymore than they would want to see a Dream Theater cover band.  I just don't think the audience really wants this, plus the idea of original music from such a group seems odd as all the inspiration and ideas for what created the band are no longer there.  It's all possible, I just find it unlikely.

Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2017, 08:34:21 AM »
What about holographs?  Isn't there supposed to be a Dio holograph concert?  If that becomes a thing in the future, maybe bands will love in digitally with a backing band touring.  Who knows.  But I definitely could see record labels and concert promoters getting creative if they had to, but I'm going to guess they won't have to.  New bands will come and old ones will fade.  Most people aren't going to be interested in seeing Dream Theater with no original members in 50 years from now anymore than they would want to see a Dream Theater cover band.  I just don't think the audience really wants this, plus the idea of original music from such a group seems odd as all the inspiration and ideas for what created the band are no longer there.  It's all possible, I just find it unlikely.

Thinking about that kinda makes me sad but oh well that's life maybe in the next 100 years there will be another band with a different Name that will have their own set of own compositions but would also do cover versions of DT songs.

Hey DT did it with a full version of Master of Puppets Album. 

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2017, 08:54:29 AM »
Hey DT did it with a full version of Master of Puppets Album.

Someone down the line may find interesting to perform Scenes from a Memory, I reckon.
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Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 09:14:08 AM »
Hey DT did it with a full version of Master of Puppets Album.

Someone down the line may find interesting to perform Scenes from a Memory, I reckon.

Or the Astonishing during a time when Music is only composed by robots!

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 09:15:47 AM »
Hey DT did it with a full version of Master of Puppets Album.

Someone down the line may find interesting to perform Scenes from a Memory, I reckon.

Or the Astonishing during a time when Music is only composed by robots!

Ha, can you imagine it? music goes the artificial way and someone finds out "Hey, these dudes 90 years ago got it right!"  :D
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Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2017, 09:22:14 AM »
Hey DT did it with a full version of Master of Puppets Album.

Someone down the line may find interesting to perform Scenes from a Memory, I reckon.

Or the Astonishing during a time when Music is only composed by robots!

Ha, can you imagine it? music goes the artificial way and someone finds out "Hey, these dudes 90 years ago got it right!"  :D

By that time they might start worshiping Lord Petrucci as a real God of Guitar Music. 

On a more serious note, this is an interesting thread I have been thinking about this my self.

Like will there be some sort of official cover bands in the future? Like others of said it is possible for some of the more marketable bands like the Deep Purple, Metallica etc, but Dream Theater is still gaining more and more exposure despite they have been in the industry for like 30 years plus.

Although I don't think there will be a permanent Dream Theater cover band it will be more of seasonal thing like for example a Prog Metal Band in the future name Band X will be pressented as Dream Theater in some shows, and market it as "Band X" as Dream Theater".

 

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2017, 09:36:55 AM »
I had opened a discussion about it, having the idea partly from this very thread:

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50524.0
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Could DT still be touring in 50 years time?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2017, 11:27:55 AM »
Is such a thing even possible?

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