A "create a set list" experiment

[bosk1]

Just curious what people can come up with here, given certain restraints.  Your mission is to come up with an alternate 20th anniversary set list.  Rules:

1.  The first three songs will be:  The Root of All Evil, I Walk Beside You, and Another Won, in that order.
2.  From the fourth song on, you must select one song from each studio album, in release order. 
3.  Six Degrees will be played in the second set.
4.  Songs in the second set will have an orchestra, so most or all songs chosen in that set should be amenable to being played with an orchestra.
5.  Octavarium will close the second set.
6.  You must include 1 or 2 other songs from the Octavarium album.
7.  Other than the specific songs I gave you (TROAE, IWBY, Another Won, Six Degrees, Octavarium), you CANNOT exceed 68 minutes.

Let's see what you can come up with.

[MirrorMask]

SET 1

The Root of All Evil
I Walk Beside You
Another Won
A Fortune in Lies
Pull Me Under
Innocence Faded
Peruvian Skies
The Spirit Carries On

SET 2

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Vacant
These Walls
Sacrificed Sons
Octavarium
-----------------
Metropolis pt.1

[pg1067]

Well...ok, although (1) I think the choice of the first three songs is unnecessarily arbitrary; (2) the balance of the Score set list (i.e., everything other than TROAE, IWBY, AW, SDOIT and 8VA) was 70:24, so the 68 minute limit is too short; and (however) (3) the criteria eliminates the ability to have Metropolis as as the closing number with the orchestra and requires that only songs from SDOIT through 8VA will be played with the orchestra, which seems awfully odd, but it makes staying under 68 minutes very easy.

SET 1
1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4. The Killing Hand (8:41 on WDADU)
5. Learning to Live (11:30 on I&W)
6. Lifting Shadows off a Dream (6:05 on Awake)
7. Hell's Kitchen (4:16 on FII)
8. Fatal Tragedy (6:49 on SFAM)
Total Set 1 time counted against 68 minute limit:  37:21

SET 2
SDOIT
Endless Sacrifice (11:24 on ToT)
Panic Attack (8:13 on 8VA)
Sacrificed Sons (10:42 on 8VA)
Octavarium
Total Set 2 time counted against 68 minute limit:  30:19

Total time from both sets counted against 68 minute limit:  67:40

* If you want to end with Metropolis, as actually was done, then swap in Only a Matter of Time, Surrounded and 6:00 for the WDADU, I&W and Awake slots, which gains 8:40 of the needed time, the rest of which can be gained by shortening Jordan's intro to 8VA.

[Renzo]

Set I:
1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4. The Killing Hand
5. Metropolis
6. The Mirror
7. Hell's Kitchen
8. Beyond this Life

Set II:
1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Panic Attack
3. Sacrificed Sons
4. Vacant
5. Octavarium

[JayOctavarium]

Someone come up with a setlist that includes SoC along with Vacant (with string accompaniment) that still fits these parameters... and then go back in time and convince Mike Portnoy, inception style, to include this.


Please and thank you.

[MirrorMask]

Well, just completely sack Sacrificed Sons for Stream of Consciousness. Give or take they're both 11 or so minutes.

[wolfking]

Are we stopping at 8 songs in the first set just because the Score set does the same thing?  Thinking there should be a 9th song from TOT, as per the criteria in number 2?  I ran the TOT song after 6D anyhow.

Set 1

1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4. Afterlife
5. Under A Glass Moon
6. The Mirror
7. Hell's Kitchen
8. Fatal Tragedy


Set 2

1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Vacant
3. Stream of Consciousness
4. These Walls
5. Wait For Sleep
6. Learning to Live
7. Octavarium

Pretty sure the other songs should sneak under 68 minutes.

[bosk1]

Are we stopping at 8 songs in the first set just because the Score set does the same thing? 

Not necessarily.  But I think it just ends up being that way no matter what because of Six Degrees.  Unless you either sneak another Octavarium song in on the front end (which kind of breaks rule #1, but I think could still capture the spirit of what the band were trying to do, so it could work), or double up on an album by doing two shorter songs, I think it is just going to fall into that pattern no matter what.

[bosk1]

Well...ok, although (1) I think the choice of the first three songs is unnecessarily arbitrary

I get that you feel that they should have deviated from that formula.  But it isn't "arbitrary."  The band decided at the outset of the tour that it would follow a certain structure.  I think the easiest way to summarize the "rules" for this structure is:  (1) It was going to use Octavarium as the theme because it's a neat them and because that is the "new" album at the time that they were touring to promote, which makes sense; and (2) It was going to follow a chronology, starting with their first Majesty song, because they wanted to showcase their 20-year history.  Given that, the first three songs were, as I said, a lock.  I mean, if you really want to change the flow and put another Octavarium song in the #2 spot and move IWBY to the end of the second set, that's fine.  But I don't see anything to be gained from that.  Bottom line is, given the criteria they had set up when the tour started, there is no way the first three songs or the last song in the second set change.  That was a lock.

(2) the balance of the Score set list (i.e., everything other than TROAE, IWBY, AW, SDOIT and 8VA) was 70:24, so the 68 minute limit is too short;

I know.  They miscalculated and went 3 minutes past curfew, so I was trying to compensate for that.  The band tried to stay within that limit and simply failed in the execution, so I was trying to compensate for that.  I'm not going to fuss if people get into the 70:24 territory.

(3) the criteria eliminates the ability to have Metropolis as as the closing number with the orchestra and requires that only songs from SDOIT through 8VA will be played with the orchestra, which seems awfully odd, but it makes staying under 68 minutes very easy.

It does?  How so?  That wasn't my intention.  I mean, yes, as the "regular" part of the set, because of the album chronology aspect of it, that is definitely true.  But you could still have an encore song from ANY album, as they did with Metropolis, right?  What am I missing?

* If you want to end with Metropolis, as actually was done, then swap in Only a Matter of Time, Surrounded and 6:00 for the WDADU, I&W and Awake slots, which gains 8:40 of the needed time, the rest of which can be gained by shortening Jordan's intro to 8VA.

Works for me! 

[SeRoX]

Set 1

1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4- The Killing Hand
5- Surrounded
6- Caught In A Web
7- Hell's Kitchen
8- Through Her Eyes

Set 2

1- Six Degress Of Inner Turbulance
2- Vacant
3- Endless Sacrifice
4- The Answer Lies Within
5- A Mind Beside Itself
 I-Erotomania
 II- Voices
 III- The Silent Man

----
6- Octavarium

[bosk1]

Here's my stab at it:

1.  The Root of All Evil
2.  I Walk Beside You
3.  Another Won
4.  Afterlife  (was going to go with Status Seeker to shave off some more time, but I don't think that would have gone over well)
5.  Pull Me Under  (I wasn't going to go this route, but for a 20th anniversary show, it really should be included)
6.  Innocence Faded  (not my favorite by any stretch, but it is short and fans were happy for the rarity)
7.  Raise the Knife (keeping because it was awesome and a rare gem)
8.  The Spirit Carries On  (I have been burned out on it, but it really deserves a spot)

9.  Six Degrees
10.  Vacant
11.  Stream of Consciousness (Because it is awesome, it would be awesome with orchestration behind it, and I felt that as much as I loved the presentation of Vacant, TOT seemed underrepresented)
12.  Octavarium

Encore:  Metropolis  (great way to end the set)



This was tough.  I only made 2 1/2 substitutions:  Subbing Pull Me Under for UAGM, and subbing Stream of Consciousness for TAWL and SS.  There are a couple of problems with this.  First off, I broke the unspoken rule (which I made a rule of this thread) of at least 4 songs from the new album.  Second, SS truly was awesome.

But on the whole, to fit the two songs I added, I think this was the most logical way the set could possibly have changed.  I just don't see any other practical way.  And, honestly, I don't think we lost a whole lot in doing so.  Yeah, Octavarium only has three songs.  But one of them is 24 minutes (longer, in the live presentation).  So the album really isn't under represented.  And while this sacrifices a bit on the "Octavarium tour" aspect, it significantly enhances the "20th anniversary tour" aspect.  So IMO what was lost on one side isn't as much of a loss as the bigger gain on the other side. 

As for not having SS, that was a tough one.  But as above, while that is a problem, I think the net gain is worth it.  And I was also thinking that, although this wouldn't have helped the concert itself, for the DVD, they could have easily included a performance of the song from another show as a bonus, since it was performed at almost every stop on the tour leading up to that show.  That also still doesn't address the fact that the orchestra really added to this performance.  But, again, I still think the net gain would make it worth it.  If there was any way to accomplish everything else and include the song, I would have left it in.  But timewise, it just doesn't work in any way I can see.

[JayOctavarium]

I can totally get behind that set, Bosk

[gzarruk]

This was tough, but I think I came up with something interesting and different. Here's my take:

Set 1
1. The Root of All Evil
2. I Walk Beside You
3. Another Won
4. A Fortune in Lies
5. Take The Time
6. Lifting Shadows off a Dream
7. Take Away My Pain (I know, it's not a fan favorite, or even a favorite for the band, but I think it works great in this set/context)
8. Beyond This Life

Set 2
9. Six Degress of Inner Turbulence
10. Vacant
11. Stream of Consciousness
12. These Walls
13. Octavarium

Encore
14. Finally Free (I was going to go for LTL, but I think FF works better with the orchestra. They could end up with the Metropolis 2000 theme at the end, played by the orchestra)

[pg1067]

(3) the criteria eliminates the ability to have Metropolis as as the closing number with the orchestra and requires that only songs from SDOIT through 8VA will be played with the orchestra, which seems awfully odd, but it makes staying under 68 minutes very easy.

It does?  How so?

Because the criteria stated that "Octavarium will close the second set" and the criteria didn't allow for an encore.  That's why I gave my alternative list that allowed Metropolis to remain as an "encore" or second set closer.

I'm assuming this thread is an offshoot of the other thread where we were "grading" the Score set list and our disagreement that the set list was "locked in" as a result of the decision to play SDOIT.  As I acknowledged in that other thread, there may have been other reasons why certain songs had to be played, but those reasons are independent of the choice to play SDOIT.  For example, I can think of no good reason why the show could not have opened with Panic Attack (and there's certainly nothing about the decision to play SDOIT that compels The Root of All Evil as the opener).

[MirrorMask]

For example, I can think of no good reason why the show could not have opened with Panic Attack (and there's certainly nothing about the decision to play SDOIT that compels The Root of All Evil as the opener).

Because it opened every single show of the tour and with the long intro it's a perfect way to start it off? Not that Panic Attack would be a terrible opener per se (For example I would have welcomed it waaaaay more than The Dark Eternal Night on this tour), but during the tour of a new album that has The Root of All Evil it feels just weird to open with Panic Attack.

[Ninjabait]

I'll give it a shot:

01. The Root of All Evil
02. I Walk Beside You
03. Another Won
04. Afterlife (was going to do "Ytse Jam" since it's the only song from WDADU that I like, but I figured having 3 instrumentals in one set-list might be a bit overkill)
05. Pull Me Under
06. The Mirror (no pause between PMU and The Mirror, pick-up harmonic starts on the last beat of PMU)
07. Hell's Kitchen
08. Finally Free (ends with drum solo outro so it would be a min or two shorter; also no pause between Hell's Kitchen and Finally Free, voice-over starts on the last chord of Hell's Kitchen)

01. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
02. Vacant
03. Stream of Consciousness
04. Sacrified Sons
05. Octavarium

Encore (maybe?): Metropolis

Probably a bit on the "safe" side, but I think it's what would work best. I wouldn't really make any changes besides changing Afterlife for some other random WDADU song. Pity Hell's Kitchen and Finally Free wouldn't have an orchestra, but oh well.

Also, adding Metropolis as an encore skirts the edges of the time-limit so I'll just put that as a "maybe".

[MirrorMask]

For time limits Stream of Consciousness and Sacrificed Sons are mutually exclusive, but I love the idea of Pull Me Under going straight into The Mirror 

[pg1067]

For example, I can think of no good reason why the show could not have opened with Panic Attack (and there's certainly nothing about the decision to play SDOIT that compels The Root of All Evil as the opener).

Because it opened every single show of the tour and with the long intro it's a perfect way to start it off? Not that Panic Attack would be a terrible opener per se (For example I would have welcomed it waaaaay more than The Dark Eternal Night on this tour), but during the tour of a new album that has The Root of All Evil it feels just weird to open with Panic Attack.

I don't disagree that TROAE is a good opening song, and I realize that it opened all of the shows on the Octavarium tour.  However, those are reasons that have nothing to do with having SDOIT on the set list.  Also, Panic Attack is also a song off Octavarium, so it wouldn't be anymore weird to open the show with PA as opposed to TROAE (just because TROAE is the album opener doesn't mean it has to open the concert) -- especially since Portnoy was supposedly the king of mixing things up.

By the way, I also could have done without TDEN, but I'll admit that it's a more fun and enjoyable song live than it is on the album.

[gzarruk]

Pity Hell's Kitchen and Finally Free wouldn't have an orchestra, but oh well.

That's why I put FF as the encore, it definitely works well with the orchestra

[bosk1]

I don't disagree that TROAE is a good opening song, and I realize that it opened all of the shows on the Octavarium tour.  However, those are reasons that have nothing to do with having SDOIT on the set list. 

Right, but that isn't the point.  The band had already decided on the format of the sets for the tour in advance.  The Score set was going to follow that format no matter what.  The point is that with that pre-determined structure ALREADY in place, once they decided on SDOIT, that locked a lot of songs in place and didn't leave much wiggle room. 

Also, Panic Attack is also a song off Octavarium, so it wouldn't be anymore weird to open the show with PA as opposed to TROAE (just because TROAE is the album opener doesn't mean it has to open the concert)

I'm not saying it would be "weird."  But they decided that the tour would loosely follow the album format, with TROAE opening all shows and Octavarium closing all shows, to preserve the "full circle" theme of the album.  They weren't going to deviate from that.  Again, that format was set in place at the outset of the tour.  For the record, I like including Panic Attack.  Or even These Walls.  But again, not easy to do any of that following the structure the band had set in place for the entire tour.  If we are just doing "fantasy sets" that ignore what the band wanted to do, we could include any songs we want.  But following their own structure that they had agreed on in advance, there's very little room for variation.

[JayOctavarium]

  If we are just doing "fantasy sets" that ignore what the band wanted to do, we could include any songs we want. 

I'll take an encore of consisting of a 20 min version of You Not Me along with Natalie Portman pole dancing center stage...

[MirrorMask]

  If we are just doing "fantasy sets" that ignore what the band wanted to do, we could include any songs we want. 

I'll take an encore of consisting of a 20 min version of You Not Me along with Natalie Portman pole dancing center stage...

I'd fully be on board for that. I have been lucky to have seen many DT shows from 1999, I have never seen You Not Me live and most definitively I've never seen Natalie Portman in person.

[bosk1]

Good grief... 

[pg1067]

  If we are just doing "fantasy sets" that ignore what the band wanted to do, we could include any songs we want. 

I'll take an encore of consisting of a 20 min version of You Not Me along with Natalie Portman pole dancing center stage...

I'd fully be on board for that. I have been lucky to have seen many DT shows . . . [but] most definitively I've never seen Natalie Portman in person.

Ditto this....especially if they can also get Mila Kunis on board to recreate THAT scene from Black Swan.

Sorry...I...ummmm...have to go now....   

[JayOctavarium]

  If we are just doing "fantasy sets" that ignore what the band wanted to do, we could include any songs we want. 

I'll take an encore of consisting of a 20 min version of You Not Me along with Natalie Portman pole dancing center stage...

I'd fully be on board for that. I have been lucky to have seen many DT shows . . . [but] most definitively I've never seen Natalie Portman in person.

Ditto this....especially if they can also get Mila Kunis on board to recreate THAT scene from Black Swan.

Sorry...I...ummmm...have to go now....   

I'm lucky I am wearing loose pants.



Anyways...

I think we can all agree that SoC should have been on Score.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I honestly can’t do it. The ideal scenario would have been them playing a different venue in NYC so that the curfew wouldn’t have been as strict. Vacant going into SoC would have been perfect, and ACoS as an encore would have been ideal as well. Sadly the curfew wouldn’t allow that. I’ve made a fantasy Score setlist before and even with getting rid of SoC and ACoS, it would still be well over the 68 minutes. Hell even the band went over the time limit with the actual setlist.

[MirrorMask]

Wasn't there a mistake or technical issue with the curtains that made them re-close after they were opening? with people believing it was an April's Fools stunt? that cost them a precious minute or two since it was all timed up anyway.

[TAC]

Just curious what people can come up with here, given certain restraints.  Your mission is to come up with an alternate 20th anniversary set list.  Rules:

1.  The first three songs will be:  The Root of All Evil, I Walk Beside You, and Another Won, in that order.
2.  From the fourth song on, you must select one song from each studio album, in release order. 
3.  Six Degrees will be played in the second set.
4.  Songs in the second set will have an orchestra, so most or all songs chosen in that set should be amenable to being played with an orchestra.
5.  Octavarium will close the second set.
6.  You must include 1 or 2 other songs from the Octavarium album.
7.  Other than the specific songs I gave you (TROAE, IWBY, Another Won, Six Degrees, Octavarium), you CANNOT exceed 68 minutes.

Let's see what you can come up with.

[erwinrafael]

My take:

Set 1:
TROAE
IWBY
Another Won
Ytse Jam
Surrounded
The Mirror
Peruvian Skies
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy ('Remember death is not the end, but only a transition..." then it goes to...)
Disappear
Stream of Consciousness (wow, just heard how good this sounds coming from Disappear)
Panic Attack (set closer)

Set 2
SDOIT
These Walls (this would sound great with an orchestra, specially with that sparse instrumental)
Octavarium

[MirrorMask]

My take:

*snip*

2.  From the fourth song on, you must select one song from each studio album, in release order.