Author Topic: 'Murtherland  (Read 1151 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2017, 11:07:12 AM »
Maybe not at war, but since when has Russia been an ally?  Politically, economically, or militarily.

col·lu·sion
   /kəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

Seems like it might fit the situation to me.

But you say that as if it is the right thing and the way it should be.   We would not have been successful in WWII if we didn't at least cooperate with the Soviet Union.  No one, least of all FDR, ever made the mistake of thinking we were "friends" - FDR didn't trust Stalin as far as he could throw him, and being a wheel-chair bound polio sufferer, that wasn't that far - but we did cooperate for the greater good. 

We ABSOLUTELY need to do so now.  CHINA.    Russia is not a wealthy country by any stretch, and they have two things to sell:  oil and military/political acumen.    Putin knows a deal with China is foolhardy, and a deal with the devil.  He will hold out as long as he possibly can.   But without cooperation with the USA, that will be a finite timeframe.   We have to get past this predilection to see Russia as 'the boogey men!' and get with the realpolitik.   

Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2017, 11:10:28 AM »
Copy of Flynn's plea deal.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1015121/download

Does Section 8D mean that he can no longer have a lawyer present when getting questioned?
That's odd, but I suspect there's some oddball lawyer thing where it makes perfect sense. Seems to me he waives the right to counsel during questioning, until he decides to ask for it at which point they'll allow it with no consequences. "We demand that you do X, Y and Z. If you decide not to, eh, you don't really have to."

I think that's right; the first part precludes Flynn from ever making a Constitutional claim against the government for a violation of his constitutional rights (which might then render the entire agreement bogus).   But the second part basically gives Flynn some comfort that he doesn't have to go this alone, and if the government doesn't allow the attorney, the worst that can happen is it's a breach of THIS agreement, again, not a violation of his Constitutional rights.  Admittedly, that doesn't seem to be a very well-drafted clause, but I'm presuming that these lawyers have done this before, found language that works for both parties and moved on.   I'd guess the chances of a large-scale dispute over specifically Section 8D is unlikely at best.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2017, 11:12:47 AM »
You guys are right, I support an investigation. I really do. I am just fearful this investigation will know no bounds any more than the one that tried to determine if Bill got his bishop polished by an intern did.

I support an investigation as well, but honestly, does ANYONE think a true bipartisan, objective investigation is even possible in this day and age?  Yeah, Meuller is pretty much above reproach, but beyond that, you can't swing a microphone stand without hitting a partisan participant, and in this climate of "everything on twitter all the time!" and "My opinion MATTERS! I'm IMPORTANT!" I am skeptical. 

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2017, 11:19:40 AM »
You guys are right, I support an investigation. I really do. I am just fearful this investigation will know no bounds any more than the one that tried to determine if Bill got his bishop polished by an intern did.

I support an investigation as well, but honestly, does ANYONE think a true bipartisan, objective investigation is even possible in this day and age?  Yeah, Meuller is pretty much above reproach, but beyond that, you can't swing a microphone stand without hitting a partisan participant, and in this climate of "everything on twitter all the time!" and "My opinion MATTERS! I'm IMPORTANT!" I am skeptical.

Yea, this seems to be the case.  It sucks we can't have a non biased third party figure things out for the public. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2017, 11:37:14 AM »
You guys are right, I support an investigation. I really do. I am just fearful this investigation will know no bounds any more than the one that tried to determine if Bill got his bishop polished by an intern did.

I support an investigation as well, but honestly, does ANYONE think a true bipartisan, objective investigation is even possible in this day and age?  Yeah, Meuller is pretty much above reproach, but beyond that, you can't swing a microphone stand without hitting a partisan participant, and in this climate of "everything on twitter all the time!" and "My opinion MATTERS! I'm IMPORTANT!" I am skeptical.
A bipartisan, objective investigation? Sure. As you said Meuller is beyond reproach. A bipartisan, objective conclusion? No fucking chance. As I've said for two years Trump is bulletproof. Meuller could turn up video of him banging 12 year old Vladivostok girls and congress would decline to act on it.
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2017, 01:01:56 PM »
You guys are right, I support an investigation. I really do. I am just fearful this investigation will know no bounds any more than the one that tried to determine if Bill got his bishop polished by an intern did.

I support an investigation as well, but honestly, does ANYONE think a true bipartisan, objective investigation is even possible in this day and age?  Yeah, Meuller is pretty much above reproach, but beyond that, you can't swing a microphone stand without hitting a partisan participant, and in this climate of "everything on twitter all the time!" and "My opinion MATTERS! I'm IMPORTANT!" I am skeptical.

It's the FBI. So, yes. It's their job and they're the best our country has to offer at this stuff.

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2017, 03:18:41 PM »
You guys are right, I support an investigation. I really do. I am just fearful this investigation will know no bounds any more than the one that tried to determine if Bill got his bishop polished by an intern did.

I support an investigation as well, but honestly, does ANYONE think a true bipartisan, objective investigation is even possible in this day and age?  Yeah, Meuller is pretty much above reproach, but beyond that, you can't swing a microphone stand without hitting a partisan participant, and in this climate of "everything on twitter all the time!" and "My opinion MATTERS! I'm IMPORTANT!" I am skeptical.

It's the FBI. So, yes. It's their job and they're the best our country has to offer at this stuff.

And it's sad that they are the best and can't keep their own bias out of it still http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politics/peter-strzok-james-comey/index.html

Offline portnoy311

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2017, 03:51:38 PM »
Do we think he only changed that because of his biases? It seems Comey was OK with it and it matches the overall message he was going for - she fucked up, but not recommending charges, which this language does.

I dunno, maybe he was crooked. I just tend to think if anyone in this is actually trustworthy, it's the FBI. It's not like the dude was removed for being over the top corrupt, or anything workwise he really did, at least far as I know. More that Mueller is going incredibly by the book.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 04:32:26 PM by portnoy311 »

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2017, 05:00:08 PM »
Well his private text messages show which way he leans.  Hard to say that his bias swayed the decision, but makes you wonder and that was a big decision to change that wording.  I don't think the FBI bias is due to Trump alone, the bias has been there and will be there due to the human element.  I'd like to think the FBI is the most trustworthy department in the fed, but I'm not sure there's many options for most trustworthy in government.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2017, 09:38:32 AM »
Do we think he only changed that because of his biases? It seems Comey was OK with it and it matches the overall message he was going for - she fucked up, but not recommending charges, which this language does.

I dunno, maybe he was crooked. I just tend to think if anyone in this is actually trustworthy, it's the FBI. It's not like the dude was removed for being over the top corrupt, or anything workwise he really did, at least far as I know. More that Mueller is going incredibly by the book.

But we're not talking OJ here, with blood everywhere, enough DNA to impregnate Canada, and THREE murder weapons (including a pair of gloves split into TWO crime scenes).   

Look, I don't expect people to not have opinions; that's the way life goes, right?    But there comes a time when you have to make decisions and prioritize.   Maybe, while we're investigating the participants in an election, I voluntarily forgo my vote.   Or if I'm investigating a politician, maybe I temporarily stick to twats about the Patriots and Kiss, and keep my political opinions to myself, no?   

Next time I'm having beers with el Barto, I'm bringing this up:   I am continually, and perpetually AMAZED at the amount of information people feel COMPELLED to cast out into the universe via social media.   Dick picks, political opinions, etc.   I know, I know, Stadler's on it again, but there's a good many problems in this world that could have been avoided by just a modicum of judgment and circumspection.   

Offline Chino

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2017, 09:42:18 AM »
Do we think he only changed that because of his biases? It seems Comey was OK with it and it matches the overall message he was going for - she fucked up, but not recommending charges, which this language does.

I dunno, maybe he was crooked. I just tend to think if anyone in this is actually trustworthy, it's the FBI. It's not like the dude was removed for being over the top corrupt, or anything workwise he really did, at least far as I know. More that Mueller is going incredibly by the book.

But we're not talking OJ here, with blood everywhere, enough DNA to impregnate Canada, and THREE murder weapons (including a pair of gloves split into TWO crime scenes).   

Look, I don't expect people to not have opinions; that's the way life goes, right?    But there comes a time when you have to make decisions and prioritize.   Maybe, while we're investigating the participants in an election, I voluntarily forgo my vote.   Or if I'm investigating a politician, maybe I temporarily stick to twats about the Patriots and Kiss, and keep my political opinions to myself, no?   

Next time I'm having beers with el Barto, I'm bringing this up:   I am continually, and perpetually AMAZED at the amount of information people feel COMPELLED to cast out into the universe via social media.   Dick picks, political opinions, etc.   I know, I know, Stadler's on it again, but there's a good many problems in this world that could have been avoided by just a modicum of judgment and circumspection.

Can I come?

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2017, 09:57:36 AM »
I'll meet you guys at the bar as well  :lol

Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2017, 10:07:32 AM »
All welcome.  I was actually just lamenting that I don't have any sort of "meet up" concerts on the calendar and it bummed me out.  A lot, actually.   I was hoping SoA would be that, but that firecracker seems to be fizzling pretty damn quick, and I'm not traveling to Battle Creek, Michigan to see them.  :)

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2017, 10:22:34 AM »
Yea with the limited SOA tour and no DT or IM next year, not sure what DTF meet ups are in store.  My concert calendar is starting to build up though and I am going to Atlanta for ProgPower, I'm sure there will be DTFers there.  My gf's schedule next year is real tough for her to take time off for a vacation so I may end up traveling for some other show or two as well to use my vacation time.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2017, 10:26:16 AM »
With a little luck I'm spending my vacation time (and then some) in Europe. You guys are going to have to come to Texas for a change (Cram excluded in that).
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Offline Adami

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2017, 10:27:22 AM »
Well if anyone gets bored discussing Trump and wants to come to LA and discuss the Middle East, make sure to do it when I'm not here.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2017, 10:40:54 AM »
And if anyone wants to discuss the Russian investigation over a bowl of Borscht a la Polonium-210, you're always welcome!

Barto, which European countries you thinking of hitting?

Offline El Barto

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2017, 11:25:50 AM »
And if anyone wants to discuss the Russian investigation over a bowl of Borscht a la Polonium-210, you're always welcome!

Barto, which European countries you thinking of hitting?
Predominantly Germany and the Italian Alps. I want to drive a BMW3 all over the autobahn and I didn't spend enough time in the Lake Como area last time I was there.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2017, 12:20:39 PM »
With a little luck I'm spending my vacation time (and then some) in Europe. You guys are going to have to come to Texas for a change (Cram excluded in that).

I was supposed to be in Fort Worth; that has fallen through for the time being. I love Texas, so it's a matter of opportunity more than anything.

I've done the "BMW - Autobahn" thing and it was a thrill beyond measure.  Except when I was just crossing the old "East/West" line on the way to Berlin, doing about 200km/hr, and I was passed on the left by a guy on a yellow BMW motorcycle like I was standing still.   Guy had to be going 150mph.   

Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2017, 12:35:26 PM »
I've never driven myself on the autobahn but my boss has driven me multiple times between Amsterdam and Frankfurt (5 times to be exact) and our rental cars are usually BMWs or Mercedes being that it's Germany. Not top of the line, but good enough to have a nice drive.  Although after driving the Camaro last weekend, a type of car I've never experienced driving before, hitting that autobahn again is something I'd really like to do.

Offline AngelBack

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2017, 01:06:21 PM »
Well if anyone gets bored discussing Trump and wants to come to LA and discuss the Middle East, make sure to do it when I'm not here.


OK, I'll take Embassies in Jerusalem for 800 Alex...
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Offline Chino

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2017, 01:18:33 PM »
I've never driven myself on the autobahn but my boss has driven me multiple times between Amsterdam and Frankfurt (5 times to be exact) and our rental cars are usually BMWs or Mercedes being that it's Germany. Not top of the line, but good enough to have a nice drive.  Although after driving the Camaro last weekend, a type of car I've never experienced driving before, hitting that autobahn again is something I'd really like to do.

When I went to Florida a few months ago I rented a convertible Mustang GT. The thing handled like a boat and couldn't hook up off the line to save its life, but damn did that thing go like hell on the highway.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2017, 01:25:30 PM »
I've never driven myself on the autobahn but my boss has driven me multiple times between Amsterdam and Frankfurt (5 times to be exact) and our rental cars are usually BMWs or Mercedes being that it's Germany. Not top of the line, but good enough to have a nice drive.  Although after driving the Camaro last weekend, a type of car I've never experienced driving before, hitting that autobahn again is something I'd really like to do.

When I went to Florida a few months ago I rented a convertible Mustang GT. The thing handled like a boat and couldn't hook up off the line to save its life, but damn did that thing go like hell on the highway.
Sounds just like an American muscle car.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 'Murtherland
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2017, 01:30:31 PM »
I've never driven myself on the autobahn but my boss has driven me multiple times between Amsterdam and Frankfurt (5 times to be exact) and our rental cars are usually BMWs or Mercedes being that it's Germany. Not top of the line, but good enough to have a nice drive.  Although after driving the Camaro last weekend, a type of car I've never experienced driving before, hitting that autobahn again is something I'd really like to do.

When I went to Florida a few months ago I rented a convertible Mustang GT. The thing handled like a boat and couldn't hook up off the line to save its life, but damn did that thing go like hell on the highway.
Sounds just like an American muscle car.

Nice, I tested out my new fake go pro, had it clipped onto the passenger mirror and FLEW through downtown Dallas.  Also drove it down a dirt road as fast as I could then turned around and went back down it while the dust was all still a cloud.  Just for fun.  Some of this footage is going to be in my DT Images and Words video I'm working on as part of my "intermission" part of the video.