Author Topic: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions  (Read 459 times)

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Offline lonestar

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Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« on: June 30, 2017, 04:41:41 PM »
Ok, so I came across this story of a woman who came across a dude rummaging through her purse in her SUV as she exited Walmart. He ran, and she gave chase on foot, but due to being 5 months pregnant, went back to her car and chased him in that. Then she proceeded to run him the fuck over. Video in the link...


http://wlos.com/news/local/man-sent-to-hospital-after-being-struck-by-vehicle-in-walmart-parking-lot


Just curious on how everyone feels about this. Me personally, I think she should be prosecuted fully, not only for the potential damage/death she could've caused him, but also the mayhem she could have caused recklessly speeding through a Walmart parking lot. I originally found this video on a Elizabeth Warren page on FB, and I was really surprised how many people were in full support of her, to the point where they were dismayed he wasn't hurt more. It was shocking how vehement and bloodthirsty they were. To me, all that shit in the purse, and the purse itself can be replaced, and aren't worth taking the thief's life(or an innocents).


Thoughts?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 05:11:23 PM »
Situations like that are always tough.  Vigilante violence is tough to condone, but don't ever ask me to feel sorry for criminals who get some type of comeuppance as a result.

In this case, it is easy to say, "All he did was steal her purse," but what if he got away with her credit cards, keys to her house, other personal items/info?   While I do not condone running him over with her car, good for her for not letting him get away with her stuff.

Unintended consequences can be a funny thing.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2017, 05:32:52 PM »
That guy just messed with the wrong person.

She didn't really have to do that, but she did. He didn't have to do that, but he did. He is now facing the consequences of his actions which happened to be a pretty hard consequence.

She should be charged though at least for endangerment to public safety.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2017, 05:41:08 PM »
I'm never EVER going to support vigilantism.   ESPECIALLY now that we have social media.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/29/mistake-lost-child-florida-orig-jnd-vstop.cnn

This Good Samaritan (there are witnesses) was honestly just helping this little girl who was lost, find her parents.   Because of a misunderstanding, and social media, this man's has been beaten and his life ruined.   The parents refuse to talk to police because they refuse to believe their daughter wasn't the victim of attempted abduction.   They are blaming police in spite of the fact that a witness says the man *was only* trying to help a lost child.  Period. 

I myself have had lies spread about me, and there are people out there who believe things about me that have no basis in fact.  And yet, when I was young and in HS, I myself was part of a mob that was going to beat another boy to within an inch of his life because a girl reported she had been raped by him.   She later stated that she had made the whole thing up because she was pissed off at him.   

The OP in this situation is *a bit* different, since it was an actual witness to the crime.    But still.   Due process all the way.   Even if it is flawed.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2017, 10:00:28 AM »
Yeah, when I read this the other day the first thing I thought was ADW charges for the pregnant gal. With very few exceptions you don't get to kill somebody for steeling your shit, and I'd have to characterizing chasing and then ramming somebody with a car deadly force. Johnny certainly does.

Also, the girl exposed herself to a pretty big civil suit that she might well lose. I have zero sympathy for the purse-snatcher. None at all. Yet if he's paralyzed or has to undergo expensive medical treatment his family will sue her and her excessive use of force will hurt her very badly.

And Kev: I'm not defending the bad guy here, but I have to say that if the purse contained house keys, credit cards and personal information her next step would be to re-key the door, call and report the cards stolen, and sign up for Life Lock or some other credit monitoring program, while reflecting on the rather expensive lesson she just learned about leaving her purse in the car unattended.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2017, 12:25:30 PM »


And Kev: I'm not defending the bad guy here, but I have to say that if the purse contained house keys, credit cards and personal information her next step would be to re-key the door, call and report the cards stolen, and sign up for Life Lock or some other credit monitoring program, while reflecting on the rather expensive lesson she just learned about leaving her purse in the car unattended.

I agree with that.  If you leave your purse in a parked car where it is visible to anyone walking by, that is basically inviting bad guys to break into your car and steal something.
You have to be smarter than that, which a lot of people sadly are not.

Online Phoenix87x

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 06:12:29 PM »
If he was running toward the car with a knife or something then I would have been fine with her running him down in the panic of self defense or whatever, but running over a fleeing dude is a little overboard. And even though I love people facing the consequences of their actions, in today's world of everyone having a video camera and its on social media and viral across the world in a matter of minutes, you have to think before you act.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2017, 08:55:12 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/29/mistake-lost-child-florida-orig-jnd-vstop.cnn

This Good Samaritan (there are witnesses) was honestly just helping this little girl who was lost, find her parents.   Because of a misunderstanding, and social media, this man's has been beaten and his life ruined. 

Aaaaand that is why I don't go out of my way to help strangers.

On topic...

If you leave your purse in a parked car where it is visible to anyone walking by, that is basically inviting bad guys to break into your car and steal something. 

I totally get it. Take care of your shit. But its sad commentary on our society that a purse in a locked car is an invitation for some bad dude to break in to the car and take it.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 10:20:07 PM »
If you leave your purse in a parked car where it is visible to anyone walking by, that is basically inviting bad guys to break into your car and steal something. 

I totally get it. Take care of your shit. But its sad commentary on our society that a purse in a locked car is an invitation for some bad dude to break in to the car and take it.
I'll be damned. I was just thinking what a sad commentary it is that we're willing to sun somebody down just for stealing from us.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 10:52:24 PM »
That was already covered by previous posts, I didn't feel the need to reiterate it.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 11:04:34 PM »
If he was running toward the car with a knife or something then I would have been fine with her running him down in the panic of self defense or whatever, but running over a fleeing dude is a little overboard. And even though I love people facing the consequences of their actions, in today's world of everyone having a video camera and its on social media and viral across the world in a matter of minutes, you have to think before you act.

Oh yeah, I can see a number of situations where running a dude down is justified, self defense being one. There are a few others I could think of as well, but some tweeker running away with my stolen wallet is far below that line. He'd get his fix, and I'd be inconvenienced, but in no way would he end up a road pizza.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2017, 08:23:34 AM »
With el Barto 100% of the way on this one.

And I would offer that I am struggling to come up with a way that "running someone down" in a 4000 pound vehicle is EVER justified.   Part of the requirement for deadly force is reasonable belief that you are in imminent and immediate danger.  If you are a) in a vehicle, and b) have the wherewithal to run someone down, why don't you have the wherewithal to put it in reverse and remove yourself from the danger?


Oh, and
I originally found this video on a Elizabeth Warren page on FB, and I was really surprised how many people were in full support of her, to the point where they were dismayed he wasn't hurt more.

Doesn't surprise me at all.  She is the epitome of the "well, I think it, therefore I MUST be right, no matter what it is" mentality in politics/social issues, and attracts that sort of crowd.   You know the type; bullying is BAD when it's against someone you agree with, but as soon as you need to further your own political agenda?  BULLY AWAY!  It's all justified! 

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2017, 10:30:29 AM »
I'm never EVER going to support vigilantism.   ESPECIALLY now that we have social media.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/29/mistake-lost-child-florida-orig-jnd-vstop.cnn

This Good Samaritan (there are witnesses) was honestly just helping this little girl who was lost, find her parents.   Because of a misunderstanding, and social media, this man's has been beaten and his life ruined.   The parents refuse to talk to police because they refuse to believe their daughter wasn't the victim of attempted abduction.   They are blaming police in spite of the fact that a witness says the man *was only* trying to help a lost child.  Period. 

I myself have had lies spread about me, and there are people out there who believe things about me that have no basis in fact.  And yet, when I was young and in HS, I myself was part of a mob that was going to beat another boy to within an inch of his life because a girl reported she had been raped by him.   She later stated that she had made the whole thing up because she was pissed off at him.   

The OP in this situation is *a bit* different, since it was an actual witness to the crime.    But still.   Due process all the way.   Even if it is flawed.

When I read that story last week it pissed me off to no end. I would have pressed charges against the dad and I would have pursued some sort of legal case against everyone on social media who spread this bullshit and posted his personal information. Pretty sure that is slander.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2017, 10:49:15 AM »

Doesn't surprise me at all.  She is the epitome of the "well, I think it, therefore I MUST be right, no matter what it is" mentality in politics/social issues, and attracts that sort of crowd.   You know the type; bullying is BAD when it's against someone you agree with, but as soon as you need to further your own political agenda?  BULLY AWAY!  It's all justified!

Don't twist things around for your enjoyment,  she is not a bully.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2017, 02:26:15 PM »

Doesn't surprise me at all.  She is the epitome of the "well, I think it, therefore I MUST be right, no matter what it is" mentality in politics/social issues, and attracts that sort of crowd.   You know the type; bullying is BAD when it's against someone you agree with, but as soon as you need to further your own political agenda?  BULLY AWAY!  It's all justified!

Don't twist things around for your enjoyment,  she is not a bully.

Of course she is.   

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2017, 02:45:23 PM »

Doesn't surprise me at all.  She is the epitome of the "well, I think it, therefore I MUST be right, no matter what it is" mentality in politics/social issues, and attracts that sort of crowd.   You know the type; bullying is BAD when it's against someone you agree with, but as soon as you need to further your own political agenda?  BULLY AWAY!  It's all justified!

Don't twist things around for your enjoyment,  she is not a bully.

Of course she is.

Trump is a bully,  Elizabeth Warren is not. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2017, 08:28:52 AM »

Doesn't surprise me at all.  She is the epitome of the "well, I think it, therefore I MUST be right, no matter what it is" mentality in politics/social issues, and attracts that sort of crowd.   You know the type; bullying is BAD when it's against someone you agree with, but as soon as you need to further your own political agenda?  BULLY AWAY!  It's all justified!

Don't twist things around for your enjoyment,  she is not a bully.

Of course she is.

Trump is a bully,  Elizabeth Warren is not.

What does Trump have to do with it?   His being a bully (or not) has no bearing on the fact that so is Elizabeth Warren.  And she's a media whore as well (also like Trump).   But we're not talking about Trump (though it's interesting that Elizabeth Warren isn't wasting one media opportunity calling Trump a bully.  Gotta get your name out there, right?).


https://heatst.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-twitter-bully/

Offline cramx3

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2017, 09:13:57 AM »
I'm never EVER going to support vigilantism.   ESPECIALLY now that we have social media.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/06/29/mistake-lost-child-florida-orig-jnd-vstop.cnn

This Good Samaritan (there are witnesses) was honestly just helping this little girl who was lost, find her parents.   Because of a misunderstanding, and social media, this man's has been beaten and his life ruined.   The parents refuse to talk to police because they refuse to believe their daughter wasn't the victim of attempted abduction.   They are blaming police in spite of the fact that a witness says the man *was only* trying to help a lost child.  Period. 

I myself have had lies spread about me, and there are people out there who believe things about me that have no basis in fact.  And yet, when I was young and in HS, I myself was part of a mob that was going to beat another boy to within an inch of his life because a girl reported she had been raped by him.   She later stated that she had made the whole thing up because she was pissed off at him.   

The OP in this situation is *a bit* different, since it was an actual witness to the crime.    But still.   Due process all the way.   Even if it is flawed.

When I read that story last week it pissed me off to no end. I would have pressed charges against the dad and I would have pursued some sort of legal case against everyone on social media who spread this bullshit and posted his personal information. Pretty sure that is slander.

This story scares the crap out of me as a year or so ago I was walking to my car in the parking lot of a super market and saw a young maybe 5 year old girl calling for her mom as she romaed through a busy parking lot.  I feared for the girl, besides obviously looking lost, she was weaving in and out of cars and could have been hit easily.  I approached her and brought her to the store where we eventualyl found her mom shopping and who gave me the dirtiest ungrateful look like I was some sort of predator (and didn't say a single word to me).  God forbid someone is decent in this world. 

As for the OP, I can't support a pregnant lady going above and beyond any reasonable means for vigilantism.  She's also putting her baby at risk.

Offline Chino

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 09:36:10 AM »
I'm not the biggest fan of vigilantism, but I think there are scenarios when it is appropriate. Those are few and far between though, and I can't really think of anything that might warrant running someone down with a car outside of maybe witnessing a shooting and seeing the guy flee with the gun still in their hand. Years ago my friends and I knocked the crap out of some guy and kept him pinned for about ten minutes while we waited for the police to arrive. We were having a smoke outside a bowling alley at about 11pm and this woman starts walking to her car fairly quickly. A few seconds later, a guy follows her out and starts running his mouth at her as she picks up the pace. Next thing we know, they are arguing outside of a vehicle and he takes her by the back of her head and breaks the rear windshield with her face before throwing her to the ground. We wasted no time in making sure that guy didn't get out of the parking lot in anything but a cruiser. The woman ended up being okay, but I had to spend the next 4 hours or so in the Thomaston Police Dept. giving statements and stuff. It totally ruined the bowling night.

Too many people seem to want to be a hero. Here's one I love.
http://nypost.com/2015/10/13/woman-charged-for-shooting-at-fleeing-shoplifters-in-home-depot-parking-lot/

A 46-year-old suburban Detroit woman has been charged after authorities said she fired a shot at the tires of an SUV to stop fleeing shoplifters in a Home Depot parking lot.

Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper said Tuesday that Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez of Clarkston faces one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.


Offline Stadler

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Re: Vigilantism- thoughts and opinions
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2017, 10:48:36 AM »
I'm not the biggest fan of vigilantism, but I think there are scenarios when it is appropriate. Those are few and far between though, and I can't really think of anything that might warrant running someone down with a car outside of maybe witnessing a shooting and seeing the guy flee with the gun still in their hand. Years ago my friends and I knocked the crap out of some guy and kept him pinned for about ten minutes while we waited for the police to arrive. We were having a smoke outside a bowling alley at about 11pm and this woman starts walking to her car fairly quickly. A few seconds later, a guy follows her out and starts running his mouth at her as she picks up the pace. Next thing we know, they are arguing outside of a vehicle and he takes her by the back of her head and breaks the rear windshield with her face before throwing her to the ground. We wasted no time in making sure that guy didn't get out of the parking lot in anything but a cruiser. The woman ended up being okay, but I had to spend the next 4 hours or so in the Thomaston Police Dept. giving statements and stuff. It totally ruined the bowling night.

I would commend you for your good deed, but I would also say that what you did was not vigilantism.   You didn't take the law into your own hands and you didn't presume guilt before a reasonable trial of one's peers.  You merely made sure that the appropriate justice had a chance to work.     Had you beat the shit of out him and left him in the parking lot, THAT would be vigilantism.