Author Topic: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice  (Read 93567 times)

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Online mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1365 on: May 22, 2018, 01:00:05 PM »
people actually paid them with picks to take Karlson and Fleury (fleeced). Only the Tatar deal looks "off"

There is no logical reason why the Pens, at that point in time, would have let Vegas take Murray instead of Flower. Literally no reason. And that's what it came down to for them. Vegas was going to take one of their goalies, they just had to decide which one. There's no "fleecing" there.

Online pg1067

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1366 on: May 22, 2018, 02:08:34 PM »
Vegas....it's more than a perfect storm. The GM absolutely fleeced the NHL.

How do you figure?

Vegas did the following:  (1) selected players that other teams chose to leave unprotected; and (2) acquired draft picks and other players by agreeing to select or not select particular players in the expansion draft.

Look at the list of players drafted:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NHL_Expansion_Draft#Draft_results  As of June 21, 2017, did you look at this list and say, "Oh my god!  This team is going to be one of the two teams in the Stanley Cup Final"?  I bet you didn't.

Vegas's top scoring player, William Karlsson, scored 43-35-78.  Karlsson was selected in the expansion draft from Columbus after having scored a total of 18 goals in 183 prior NHL games.  Not only did Columbus make Karlsson available in the expansion draft, the team also traded to Vegas a second round pick in 2019 and David Clarkson (in a salary dump by Columbus) in exchange for Vegas agreeing to take Karlsson in the expansion draft.  That's how much Columbus didn't want the guy.

One of Vegas's better defensemen, Shea Theodore, was acquired in a similar deal.  Anaheim traded Theodore to Vegas in exchange for Vegas agreeing to take Clayton Stoner in the expansion draft (again, a salary dump).

I could go on and on.

While it's true that the expansion draft rules were set up to make Vegas competitive right out of the box, no one could have foreseen this.

By the way, I looked up previous expansion drafts to see just how much the rules had changed.

In 1998 (Nashville), 1999 (Atlanta) and 2000 (Columbus and Minnesota), existing teams were allowed to protect either (a) one goalie, five d-men and nine forwards or (b) two goalies, three d-men and seven forwards.

In 1999, any team who lost a goalie in the prior expansion draft did not have to expose any goalies.  In 2000, except that there were requirements in place relating to recent NHL experience of unprotected players.

The 2017 rules for Vegas allowed existing teams to protect one goalie and either (a) three d-men and seven forwards or (b) eight skaters regardless of position.  Players with less than two years of pro experience (NHL or AHL) were excluded from the draft, and teams were required to protect players with no move clauses.  23 of the 30 teams went with option (a).
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Online pg1067

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1367 on: May 22, 2018, 02:16:36 PM »
people actually paid them with picks to take Karlson and Fleury (fleeced). . . .

I didn't know they'd gell like this - not all. I'm just saying the GM studied how he could get the most out of the expansion format. And he did very well.

Fleury was hardly "fleeced" from the Pens.  No sane GM would have protected Fleury and his $5.75M cap hit and exposed Matt Murray and his $3.75M cap hit.  Arguably, Pittsburgh was a victime of the rule that didn't give teams the option of protecting two goalies, but no one saw this sort of performance coming from Fleury.  No one.

And McPhee doing his homework is a far cry from "fleecing" other GMs.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1368 on: May 22, 2018, 02:21:08 PM »

By the way, I looked up previous expansion drafts to see just how much the rules had changed.

In 1998 (Nashville), 1999 (Atlanta) and 2000 (Columbus and Minnesota), existing teams were allowed to protect either (a) one goalie, five d-men and nine forwards or (b) two goalies, three d-men and seven forwards.

In 1999, any team who lost a goalie in the prior expansion draft did not have to expose any goalies.  In 2000, except that there were requirements in place relating to recent NHL experience of unprotected players.

The 2017 rules for Vegas allowed existing teams to protect one goalie and either (a) three d-men and seven forwards or (b) eight skaters regardless of position.  Players with less than two years of pro experience (NHL or AHL) were excluded from the draft, and teams were required to protect players with no move clauses.  23 of the 30 teams went with option (a).

Thanks pg. I was going to look it up later.

So for Option A, in 1998 you could protect 15 guys as opposed to 11 in 2017, and for Option B in 1998 you could protect 12 guys as opposed to 8 in 2017.

So they definitely had more to choose from.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1369 on: May 22, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
They had more 'experienced' players to chose from.  I don't think the 2-year rule was in effect in the 98 or 00 expansion drafts?  Thus, young teams (like the Leafs) didn't have to protect their young players this time around (eg, Marner, Nylander, Matthews et al).  Given that 5 of their top 6 forwards were rookies, they were in a very enviable position of not having anyone of consequence at risk.  Other teams ultimately had to leave good-to-very good players exposed.  VGK grabbed a few of those, and got extremely lucky on a few others.  A LOT of things had to go absolutely right for VGK to be in the position they are in - McPhee 'fleecing' the other GMs wasn't one of them.  The only fleecing I potentially see is Schmidt - McPhee signed him in Washington, so knew what he was getting.  Then again, who else was Washington going to expose - Carlson, Niskanen, or Orlov?  All three are important elements of their D.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1370 on: May 22, 2018, 04:52:47 PM »
They had more 'experienced' players to chose from.  I don't think the 2-year rule was in effect in the 98 or 00 expansion drafts?  Thus, young teams (like the Leafs) didn't have to protect their young players this time around (eg, Marner, Nylander, Matthews et al).  Given that 5 of their top 6 forwards were rookies, they were in a very enviable position of not having anyone of consequence at risk.  Other teams ultimately had to leave good-to-very good players exposed. 

Right. Very true.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online pg1067

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1371 on: May 22, 2018, 05:17:43 PM »
Ultimately, they had a better group of players to select from.  If a team protected seven forwards and three d-men, then Vegas could take a top four d-man.  If a team protected eight skaters (in order to protect 4-5 d-men), then Vegas can take a second line forward.  Or Vegas gets a #2 goalie.

Under the rules used in 98-00, it would've been tough to get anything better than a third pair d-man or fourth line forward or a #2 goalie.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1372 on: May 22, 2018, 05:42:08 PM »
Ultimately, they had a better group of players to select from.  If a team protected seven forwards and three d-men, then Vegas could take a top four d-man.  If a team protected eight skaters (in order to protect 4-5 d-men), then Vegas can take a second line forward.  Or Vegas gets a #2 goalie.

Under the rules used in 98-00, it would've been tough to get anything better than a third pair d-man or fourth line forward or a #2 goalie.

Bingo.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1373 on: May 23, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
A fight in game 7. Awesome.

Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1374 on: May 23, 2018, 06:47:42 PM »
Awesome start to the game.

I'll come back to it when Lebron starts kicking the Celtics' asses.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1375 on: May 23, 2018, 07:53:11 PM »
 >:(  :censored :censored :censored :-[ :'(

Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1376 on: May 23, 2018, 08:37:45 PM »
Trotz skates pretty good for someone his size and age. Better than me!  :lol

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Offline Accelerando

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1377 on: May 23, 2018, 08:40:17 PM »
Im gonna sign off the internet for the rest of the night with only a few minutea left of the game. I’m devastated.

Congrats Caps. You wanted to win more than we did, apparently.

Im all aboard the Fire Cooper train.

As always, and forever, GO BOLTS.

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1378 on: May 23, 2018, 08:40:58 PM »
Happy for Ovi and the Caps organization.  Hope they kick Vegas' ass.

Tampa didn't play at all like the #1 seed in the east at all the past few games. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1379 on: May 23, 2018, 09:02:20 PM »
Caps just outplayed them, plain and simple. 

Hope the Caps finish it and win the Cup.

Offline mike099

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1380 on: May 24, 2018, 03:53:56 AM »
Happy to see Trotz do this well at Washington after leaving Nashville.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1381 on: May 24, 2018, 04:34:41 AM »
It would have been devastating for the Caps to finally get past Pittsburgh, only to lose in the next round.


Ovechkin vs. Vegas. I bet old Bettman is pleased.

Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1382 on: May 24, 2018, 05:45:01 AM »
It's not so much that I'm rooting for the Knights, but I'm definitely rooting against any team that has Brooks Orpik, the biggest POS in the league.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1383 on: May 24, 2018, 05:59:00 AM »
Tweet of the Day:

"So the Stanley Cup Final will feature a morally bankrupt city that is built on corruption, greed & deception against Las Vegas."

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1384 on: May 24, 2018, 06:38:47 AM »
Either way you look at it there will be more former Blues players getting their Cup. I don’t know any official ‘stat’ but I swear the Blues have to lead the league in players leaving for other teams and eventually win a cup
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1385 on: May 24, 2018, 06:42:20 AM »
Tweet of the Day:

"So the Stanley Cup Final will feature a morally bankrupt city that is built on corruption, greed & deception against Las Vegas."

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

That's awesome  :lol

Caps vs Vegas will be interesting, I'm pulling for Vegas. I'm happy for Ovie to finally find some post-season success but I just can't bring myself to root for the Caps.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1386 on: May 24, 2018, 07:23:05 AM »
This is the happiest I've been about hockey in pretty much ever. Rip em apart Ovi! :heart

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1387 on: May 24, 2018, 10:56:42 AM »
It's not so much that I'm rooting for the Knights, but I'm definitely rooting against any team that has Brooks Orpik, the biggest POS in the league.

Says the guy who roots for the team employing Marchand :P
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1388 on: May 24, 2018, 12:00:09 PM »
I'm hoping ovi wins a cup and he and putin can drink vodka and watch hookers pee.

in other news...the series will take a stupidly long time to play with three travel days each location change
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1389 on: May 24, 2018, 12:53:59 PM »
in other news...the series will take a stupidly long time to play with three travel days each location change

It's actually two travel days (not 3) between games 2/3 and every game from game 4-7.  Regardless, the NHL always seems to screw this up.

Vegas last played on Sunday, May 20.  They'll end up with 8 days off, but a long layoff is inevitable with a five game series and the next opponent plays a seven game series.

I assume game 7 of the WCF would have been today if it had gone that far, and game 7 of the ECF was obviously last night.  Pink is playing at T-Mobile Arena Saturday night, and I assume that was scheduled months ago, so they have to work around that, but I can't see any good reason why game 1 couldn't be played on Sunday.  There are no other scheduling conflicts at T-Mobile Arena until July, so there should be no problems there.  That would allow for game 2 on Tuesday, 5/29, and game 3 in Washington on 5/31, and game 4 on 6/2 (which is when game 3 is currently scheduled (Capital One Arena's schedule shows something called the Washington Valor on Saturday, June 2, but that's apparently getting bumped for game 3 anyway).  Then back to Vegas for game 5 on Monday, 6/4; game 6 in Washington on Wednesday, 6/6; and game 7 in Vegas on Friday, 6/8 (or, if you don't like the idea of having a potential game 7 on a Friday night, push it to Saturday, 6/9).

Maybe there's something in the CBA that requires two travel days in the Final?  I didn't go back to see what the SCF schedule has been over the last few years.  There wasn't much travel burden in 2017, 2015 or 2013, but 2014 and 2016 required cross-country trips, and I don't remember lots of days off in 2014.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:59:34 PM by pg1067 »
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Offline DT2003

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1390 on: May 24, 2018, 06:43:40 PM »
Rangers fan here and I couldn’t be happier for Ovechkin. I’ve always been a fan of his and hope he can finally win the cup as he is well deserving of it!

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1391 on: May 26, 2018, 12:17:52 AM »
Rangers fan here and I couldn’t be happier for Ovechkin. I’ve always been a fan of his and hope he can finally win the cup as he is well deserving of it!

Same here. I’ve never hated the Capitals quite like I hate the Penguins, Flyers, Devils, and Islanders. Ovechkin is a huge part of that.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1392 on: May 28, 2018, 08:33:19 PM »
Anyone else watching the game tonight? Awesome game. Multiple lead changes.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1393 on: May 28, 2018, 08:38:24 PM »
Anyone else watching the game tonight? Awesome game. Multiple lead changes.

Yeah. Crazy game.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1394 on: May 28, 2018, 08:39:26 PM »
Great game, from what I have seen (watching both this and the NBA game).

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1395 on: May 28, 2018, 08:41:00 PM »
I'm done watching basketball this year. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1396 on: May 28, 2018, 08:43:13 PM »
I am tonight.  That game looks fixed. 

Hockey is better anyway. :coolio

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1397 on: May 28, 2018, 09:07:42 PM »
If this is how these two teams are gonna play, I really hope this goes to seven. What a game.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1398 on: May 28, 2018, 09:54:39 PM »
Fantastic game... but a timely non-call on Reaves' cross-check on Carlson to allow him to snipe the 4-4 tying goal.  And wtf with Perron jumping on the ice.  How was that not a game mis-conduct?

Two hot goalies, and we get 9 goals + EN.  Wow.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1399 on: May 29, 2018, 06:52:27 AM »
Fantastic game... but a timely non-call on Reaves' cross-check on Carlson to allow him to snipe the 4-4 tying goal.  And wtf with Perron jumping on the ice.  How was that not a game mis-conduct?

Two hot goalies, and we get 9 goals + EN.  Wow.

A fantastic game with some definite officiating mishaps. If that Wilson hit is seen by an orange stripe chances are it's a 5-minute major, especially with his history in these playoffs. That was just stupid and unnecessary. That said I think the Knights still got the better of things considering Perron was allowed to stay and they got a goal instead of a Reaves penalty.
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