Author Topic: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice  (Read 2360 times)

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Offline Hyperplex

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Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« on: June 28, 2017, 09:23:39 PM »
2017 Awards are over, time to start fresh on the next year.

https://www.nhl.com/news/connor-mcdavid-nearing-extension-with-edmonton-oilers/c-290209886

McDavid looking at an 8-year $106 million extension for the largest single season cap hit in the NHL.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 06:53:42 AM »
2017 Awards are over, time to start fresh on the next year.

https://www.nhl.com/news/connor-mcdavid-nearing-extension-with-edmonton-oilers/c-290209886

McDavid looking at an 8-year $106 million extension for the largest single season cap hit in the NHL.

I'd love it if they gave him that contract. In a cap league that is literally expanding, with a diluted talent pool, please designate that much money to one guy, their team (overall) will certainly suffer for it.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 07:38:05 AM »
Go Vegas (wtf not?)

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 07:41:29 AM »
2017 Awards are over, time to start fresh on the next year.

https://www.nhl.com/news/connor-mcdavid-nearing-extension-with-edmonton-oilers/c-290209886

McDavid looking at an 8-year $106 million extension for the largest single season cap hit in the NHL.

I'd love it if they gave him that contract. In a cap league that is literally expanding, with a diluted talent pool, please designate that much money to one guy, their team (overall) will certainly suffer for it.

Funny, coming from a Pitt fan who's own best-in-the-world player set new the cap "rules".  For the next 'generational' player, this is not unsurprising, and a good move to lock him down.  Who knows what the next CBA might bring?
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 08:01:23 AM »
Funny, coming from a Pitt fan who's own best-in-the-world player set new the cap "rules".  For the next 'generational' player, this is not unsurprising, and a good move to lock him down.  Who knows what the next CBA might bring?

You know Sid isn't even the highest paid player on the team, right? He took a cut to play here so they could keep the rest of the core in tact long-term.

Don't get me wrong, I'll never blame a player for taking the money, that's what I'd do, good on Conor. I just think it will result in the Oilers possibly having too much money tied up in one guy, that's all. Add on to that the fact that they (the Oilers) haven't made the best personnel decisions in recent years, we will see how they fare.

Go Vegas (wtf not?)

Not sure if we discussed this in the last thread, but I feel like McPhee has made the roster worse since the initial expansion draft. Looks like he's really banking on building his team through the draft in the next couple years. I admittedly have no clue what prospects look like for the next couple drafts, seems like on the surface he might end up looking like a genius in a couple years or not so much.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 09:11:02 AM »
You know Sid isn't even the highest paid player on the team, right?

No, I didn't.  Who is?
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 09:39:51 AM »
You know Sid isn't even the highest paid player on the team, right?

No, I didn't.  Who is?

Malkin has a higher cap hit:

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins

Sid is an admitted obsessive compulsive person, he likes things to line up. He was born 8/7/87, he is number 87, so he thought his cap hit should be 8.7. 

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 12:19:28 PM »
Gotchya... I didn't know that.  I guess I was thrown off by the 12 year/$105M, and his current annual salary ($10.9 vs Geno's $9.5)
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Offline Nick

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 12:28:12 PM »
Mikey, I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no argument here. Still looking for the article, but here is the basis:

When Crosby signed his second contract the cap hit was 17.3% of the total cap.

If McDavid signs for 13.25m cap hit it will be 17.6% of the total cap.

If my numbers are wrong, the margin is definitely correct, it was 0.3% difference.

Both coming off of years where they took home the three big pieces of hardware, with McDavid pushing his team one round further into the playoffs.

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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 01:35:59 PM »
Gotchya... I didn't know that.  I guess I was thrown off by the 12 year/$105M, and his current annual salary ($10.9 vs Geno's $9.5)

Right his salary is more than Geno's, but his cap hit is less.

Mikey, I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no argument here. Still looking for the article, but here is the basis:

When Crosby signed his second contract the cap hit was 17.3% of the total cap.

If McDavid signs for 13.25m cap hit it will be 17.6% of the total cap.

If my numbers are wrong, the margin is definitely correct, it was 0.3% difference.

Both coming off of years where they took home the three big pieces of hardware, with McDavid pushing his team one round further into the playoffs.

Good post, I honestly didn't know the cap had gone up that much since Sid signed his deal (on the surface a 8.7 cap hit looks like a lot less than a 13.25 cap hit). I stand corrected.

 :tup

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 06:11:59 PM »
Damn... I missed the news that Semenko passed away earlier this week.

 :-[

Wish the NHL would allow 'enforcers' again to protect the true superstars.  Would Gretz be the undeniable greatest and have the point tally he did without Dave and Marty?  Who knows.  But, we do know that all the tier-1 superstars get some kind of on-ice injury with a lot more regularity than they did in the 20th century.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 06:27:19 PM »
Damn... I missed the news that Semenko passed away earlier this week.

 :-[
 

Damn. So did I. :sad:
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 10:05:09 PM »
Wish the NHL would allow 'enforcers' again to protect the true superstars.  Would Gretz be the undeniable greatest and have the point tally he did without Dave and Marty?  Who knows.  But, we do know that all the tier-1 superstars get some kind of on-ice injury with a lot more regularity than they did in the 20th century.

At the same time, should teams really use a roster spot for a guy who's only use is hitting people? He'll spend most of the time in the penalty box and then there's one less spot for a guy who can actually score. The league has changed drastically in the last 20 years and I don't believe that there's really a place for enforcers anymore. What I do think is that coaches need to teach toughness to their players. If these superstar players could actually defend themselves when getting bullied by some of the dirtier players in the league. A guy like Crosby or Kane shouldn't need someone else to stick up for them. They should be able to do so themselves.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 06:07:28 AM »
I would disagree there.  Fans and players alike respected the 'enforcer' - think about how beloved people like Kelly Chase, Tie Domi, Bob Probert etc... were.  Nothing (other than a goal), gets the fans on their feet faster than a guy that can hit and be a shit disturber, or a good fight.  It's foolish to say that Sid/Kane and the like "should" be able to take care of themselves.  That's not their role, and you don't want them taking themselves off the ice for 5 minutes.

There was a role for the enforcer (they could still play, and weren't any more of a liability to a team than a low-end 3rd/4th line player.  Hell, Domi was a 15 goal scorer with the Leafs one year, and was only twice during of his 17-year career was he minus double-digits.

As I said... superstars of the 90s and earlier didn't go down with the kinds of on-ice injuries that players do nowadays.  For that alone, I liked having 'goons' in hockey.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 07:07:28 AM »
I would disagree there.  Fans and players alike respected the 'enforcer' - think about how beloved people like Kelly Chase, Tie Domi, Bob Probert etc... were.  Nothing (other than a goal), gets the fans on their feet faster than a guy that can hit and be a shit disturber, or a good fight.  It's foolish to say that Sid/Kane and the like "should" be able to take care of themselves.  That's not their role, and you don't want them taking themselves off the ice for 5 minutes.

There was a role for the enforcer (they could still play, and weren't any more of a liability to a team than a low-end 3rd/4th line player.  Hell, Domi was a 15 goal scorer with the Leafs one year, and was only twice during of his 17-year career was he minus double-digits.

As I said... superstars of the 90s and earlier didn't go down with the kinds of on-ice injuries that players do nowadays.  For that alone, I liked having 'goons' in hockey.

Totally with jingle on this one. To add on to his thoughts, I also think that one of the reasons scoring is down in this era of hockey (one of many reasons) is the lack of the enforcer. Superstar players in this era get abused in ways that a player like Gretz absolutely never did, that hinders their ability to be stars. Stars score.

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 08:56:49 AM »
Lots of reasons why scoring is down, but this I agree is one of them.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 10:14:42 AM »
Lots of reasons why scoring is down, but this I agree is one of them.

I love it when you and I can agree in a hockey thread.  :biggrin:

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 12:38:14 PM »
Lots of reasons why scoring is down, but this I agree is one of them.

I love it when you and I can agree in a hockey thread.  :biggrin:

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 11:18:38 AM »
Trevor Daley picked up by Detroit. Good to see them actually targeting a need finally, tho I still hate that Mike Green is a Red Wing.

Caps lose Shattenkirk, Alzner, and Williams as expected, and now everyone is saying the Cup window is closing/closed. Boyle is a Devil and Thornton will be a Shark another year. Sharp is a Hawk again. Lots more going on. We'll see how the rest of the off-season goes.
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Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 01:20:22 PM »
So apparently the 2017-18 thread is going lol....

McDavid is well worth the 13-14mil he'll get. It's only his 2nd season and he's head and shoulders better than everyone else right now. He contributed to something like 47% of all 5 on 5 offense for the team, and like 65% of poweplay offense. He deserves way more than the cap max allows, which would be around 15 per. It's Draisaitl that will be grossly overpaid, and cripple the team. And that bloody Lucic contract. Drai will greatly benefit from playing on McDavid's line.  Don't get me wrong,  i like him in an oilers uni, but he's not worth anything close to the 8-10mil that people are throwing around.

Price at $10.5 is kinda crazy. You can win in the nhl without an elite tender, so I've never understood paying them crazy money.

Offline TAC

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 04:06:56 PM »
When did Peter Chiarelli become the GM of the Canadiens? WTF'nF?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2017, 04:23:29 PM »
Wow, Marleau to the leafs is huge for them. And 3 years is pretty good term. He can definitely still score.

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2017, 06:23:30 PM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.
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Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2017, 09:12:03 PM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.

I agree that 6.25 is a bit high, but the term makes it manageable. If that's 5 years, or say Lucic's ridiculous 6×7 contract here, then there would be trouble.  Although, i suppose that 6.25 in year 3 might impact the leafs with the truckload of money  they'll need to give Matthews.

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 04:33:12 AM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.

I agree that 6.25 is a bit high, but the term makes it manageable. If that's 5 years, or say Lucic's ridiculous 6×7 contract here, then there would be trouble.  Although, i suppose that 6.25 in year 3 might impact the leafs with the truckload of money  they'll need to give Matthews.

Not to mention Marner and Nylander.  I'd really like them to keep that crop of 3 together... but it wouldn't surprise me to see Lou move one of them this year or next to get that Tier-1 / 2-way / 26+ minute per night d-man that we need.  Hainsey is a nice addition to strengthen the blueline a bit, but he doesn't address the primary need.  I really don't see O'Reilly or Gardiner stepping up to fill that role.
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Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 08:17:52 AM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.

I agree that 6.25 is a bit high, but the term makes it manageable. If that's 5 years, or say Lucic's ridiculous 6×7 contract here, then there would be trouble.  Although, i suppose that 6.25 in year 3 might impact the leafs with the truckload of money  they'll need to give Matthews.

Not to mention Marner and Nylander.  I'd really like them to keep that crop of 3 together... but it wouldn't surprise me to see Lou move one of them this year or next to get that Tier-1 / 2-way / 26+ minute per night d-man that we need.  Hainsey is a nice addition to strengthen the blueline a bit, but he doesn't address the primary need.  I really don't see O'Reilly or Gardiner stepping up to fill that role.

Yeah, i could see Nylander moving for a d-man, but I think it would be terrible for the Leafs if they shipped Marner out. Kid is an absolute stud out there.

I think Rielly is a solid top 4 shut down guy, but there isn't really a puck mover in that d core. Gardiner, in my opinion,  never really grew into that role. With the changes in the Atlantic division so far this off-season, i think the Leafs have the best chance to win the division next year.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 08:26:26 AM by SchecterShredder »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 08:21:15 AM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.

I agree that 6.25 is a bit high, but the term makes it manageable. If that's 5 years, or say Lucic's ridiculous 6×7 contract here, then there would be trouble.  Although, i suppose that 6.25 in year 3 might impact the leafs with the truckload of money  they'll need to give Matthews.

Not to mention Marner and Nylander.  I'd really like them to keep that crop of 3 together... but it wouldn't surprise me to see Lou move one of them this year or next to get that Tier-1 / 2-way / 26+ minute per night d-man that we need.  Hainsey is a nice addition to strengthen the blueline a bit, but he doesn't address the primary need.  I really don't see O'Reilly or Gardiner stepping up to fill that role.

Yeah, i could see Nylander moving for a d-man, but I think it would be terrible for the Leafs if they shipped Marner out. Kid is an absolute stud out there.

I would say he and Nylander are on par with one another.  2a and 2b as far as rookies went this year.  There were at times - when Matthews was in one of his two big slumps - that they picked up the slack.  Marner set the team rookie record for assists, and Nylander set the team rookie record for consecutive games with a point.  Nylander was consistent as hell all season and terrifically complemented Matthews.  I can see them being an incredibly potent line pairing for many years.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 08:42:39 AM »
I'm quite surprised to read how strict Bergevin is being with his UFAs. He was quoted as saying there are no negotiations, take his offer as is or nothing. He's risking losing both Radulov and Markov. Maybe I'm naive to some of it but I don't remember a GM in recent memory being so stringent.

Also, Kuznetsov gets 8 years, $62.4 million from Washington. Friends of mine who are Caps fans (ugh) dislike the deal. They joke he got the deal for his bird dance (which I think is a ridiculous celebration anyway)...they all fear their Cup window is closing, especially after trading Johanssen away.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 12:11:15 PM »
And like that, Radulov signs 5 years with Dallas. I wonder if Bergevin will be able to sign Markov.
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Offline Jarlaxle

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2017, 12:04:17 AM »
Since the Habs are a distant 2nd favourite team after the Pens, I want them to do well, but I have a feeling they are missing the playoffs this coming season. They essentially swapped Radulov for Drouin, which is about a chop, so they aren't going to be better offensively, their defence is worse than last year, and I don't think it was very good then either. Price will be Price, but at $10.5 after this year he handcuffs his teams ability to build a real solid contender around him, not that I trust Bergevin to be able to do that.

I didn't like the Weber-Subban trade last year, and I hate it now. Weber is good and all, but it's obvious he's already lost a step from 2-3 years ago, and they have him signed for what, 8 more years? Losing Emelin and Beaulieu hurts when you don't have the organizational depth to fill those spots after trading Sergachev, and they still don't have a top line center, and it's arguable that they don't even have a true 2nd line center either. They should be in "win now" mode in Price's prime, but they are NOWHERE close to doing that. They better hope his knees hold up considering his history, or that could be an albatross in 4 or 5 years, and the contract is virtually buyout proof and would be almost untradeable.

But they signed Hemsky.

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2017, 02:21:42 AM »
The other thought beyond Markov is Pacioretty next year.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2017, 04:28:22 AM »
Yeah, some very questionable dealings and approach by Bergevin.  Putting all of those chips on Price is strange.  A tier-1 goalie alone cannot carry the team to the Cup.  A hot goalie can be a difference maker, but there's far more situations was a 'good enough' goalie can be a cup winner.
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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2017, 08:04:36 AM »
MacLellan in DC taking a bit of local flak for his decisions. I guess it's an entire off-season of "Monday morning GM" across the league, but he drew roster/strategy comparisons between his team and Pitt, and without the Cups, he can't really make that comparison and is sort of putting his foot in it.

It really is an interesting ecosystem that the salary cap creates. I had blocked the ludicrous Kovalchuk contract from NJ out of my mind until I read that he wants back in. Sigghhhhhhh
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2017, 09:53:36 AM »
Yeah, some very questionable dealings and approach by Bergevin.  Putting all of those chips on Price is strange.  A tier-1 goalie alone cannot carry the team to the Cup.  A hot goalie can be a difference maker, but there's far more situations was a 'good enough' goalie can be a cup winner.

Ex: Corey Crawford.

He's not an elite goaltender in my book but he's solid and makes the saves he's supposed to....and sprinkles some dazzlers in there as well. Id say the same about Pitts goalie.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Official 2017-2018 NHL Thread v. Break the Ice
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2017, 09:25:56 AM »
I think $6.25 mil is steep for a 38 year old.  Excited to have him as part of the team though.  I can see him entering #2 line with Marner and JVR.

I agree that 6.25 is a bit high, but the term makes it manageable. If that's 5 years, or say Lucic's ridiculous 6×7 contract here, then there would be trouble.  Although, i suppose that 6.25 in year 3 might impact the leafs with the truckload of money  they'll need to give Matthews.

Not to mention Marner and Nylander.  I'd really like them to keep that crop of 3 together... but it wouldn't surprise me to see Lou move one of them this year or next to get that Tier-1 / 2-way / 26+ minute per night d-man that we need.  Hainsey is a nice addition to strengthen the blueline a bit, but he doesn't address the primary need.  I really don't see O'Reilly or Gardiner stepping up to fill that role.

Yeah, i could see Nylander moving for a d-man, but I think it would be terrible for the Leafs if they shipped Marner out. Kid is an absolute stud out there.

I would say he and Nylander are on par with one another.  2a and 2b as far as rookies went this year.  There were at times - when Matthews was in one of his two big slumps - that they picked up the slack.  Marner set the team rookie record for assists, and Nylander set the team rookie record for consecutive games with a point.  Nylander was consistent as hell all season and terrifically complemented Matthews.  I can see them being an incredibly potent line pairing for many years.

Jumping in late to this conversation...My first thought when I saw the Marleau deal was that the term might affect the MLs ability to re-sign some of their young studs in a couple years because they have money tied up in (what will be) a guy over the age of 40.

That being said, if they think they can win now with this young group of players (which is reasonable) then you have to respect them bringing a skilled vet in to help put them over the top.

Yeah, some very questionable dealings and approach by Bergevin.  Putting all of those chips on Price is strange.  A tier-1 goalie alone cannot carry the team to the Cup.  A hot goalie can be a difference maker, but there's far more situations was a 'good enough' goalie can be a cup winner.

Ex: Corey Crawford.

He's not an elite goaltender in my book but he's solid and makes the saves he's supposed to....and sprinkles some dazzlers in there as well. Id say the same about Pitts goalie.

Agreed all the way around, that's a lot to be tied up in a goalie. It is the most important position on the ice, but still... we will see how that plays out I guess.