Author Topic: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions  (Read 68221 times)

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Online TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #735 on: May 11, 2018, 01:10:42 PM »
That's crazy news, unless there's an actual issue there that the Raptor's brass is not happy with.

The Celts are going to get steamrolled by the LeCavs for the second year in a row. Should they fire Stevens?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #736 on: May 11, 2018, 01:12:21 PM »
And the Raptors fire their head coach.

Yeah.... it was his fault....

I'm not sure this was the right move.  Time will tell, but my worry is that there sure-as-shit isn't anyone demonstrably better - unless Masai has something already mapped out, or he thinks Rex or some other assistant is ready to step up.  Not a lot of positive comments in the basketball community from what I can tell.

Two of the games were highly win-able.  The other two, I firmly believe it was a combination of A) Raps playing 10-20% below their regular season capacity and Cavs playing 10-20% above their regular season pace; B) The Raps as a whole had the 'yips' when it came to LeBron and the Cavs... and C) Lowry was inconsistent; DDR was a virtual no-show, Ibaka was a no-show - some good D, but a wreck offensively.

Sucks for Casey to be the scapegoat, and I just don't have confidence there is anyone out there that is tangibly better.

I pretty much agree with all of that.  I just feel so bad for that team.  They really had the makings of something, but I fear that this whole series of events may have wrecked them permanently. 

As far as coaches, what do you think of Jackson, assuming he would leave the broadcast booth and go back to coaching?
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #737 on: May 11, 2018, 01:12:40 PM »
I read that Buddenholzer is in the conversation.

As I said before, I think that was the only thing the Raps could do. They're tied with high contracts and can't really go into rebuild mode. Casey hasn't been able to get the best out of them during the playoffs, so bring someone new and see if that new guy can elevate these guys when it matters, because you are stuck with those guys for a couple more seasons.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #738 on: May 11, 2018, 01:24:03 PM »
And the Raptors fire their head coach.

Yeah.... it was his fault....

I'm not sure this was the right move.  Time will tell, but my worry is that there sure-as-shit isn't anyone demonstrably better - unless Masai has something already mapped out, or he thinks Rex or some other assistant is ready to step up.  Not a lot of positive comments in the basketball community from what I can tell.

Two of the games were highly win-able.  The other two, I firmly believe it was a combination of A) Raps playing 10-20% below their regular season capacity and Cavs playing 10-20% above their regular season pace; B) The Raps as a whole had the 'yips' when it came to LeBron and the Cavs... and C) Lowry was inconsistent; DDR was a virtual no-show, Ibaka was a no-show - some good D, but a wreck offensively.

Sucks for Casey to be the scapegoat, and I just don't have confidence there is anyone out there that is tangibly better.

I pretty much agree with all of that.  I just feel so bad for that team.  They really had the makings of something, but I fear that this whole series of events may have wrecked them permanently. 

As far as coaches, what do you think of Jackson, assuming he would leave the broadcast booth and go back to coaching?

If Jackson became the Raptors' coach, I would be pretty angry (as angry as one can be over something that trivial, at least). He doesn't have a great offensive mind and he also strikes me as a pretty miserable person and leader.

Buddenholzer on the other hand... I'd be alright with that.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #739 on: May 11, 2018, 01:41:26 PM »
you Raptors stay away from Budz....he needs to come to Milwaukee.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #740 on: May 11, 2018, 01:49:06 PM »
I read that Buddenholzer is in the conversation.

As I said before, I think that was the only thing the Raps could do. They're tied with high contracts and can't really go into rebuild mode. Casey hasn't been able to get the best out of them during the playoffs, so bring someone new and see if that new guy can elevate these guys when it matters, because you are stuck with those guys for a couple more seasons.

While I do think *something* had to be done to change/improve, I don't believe Casey was the right first step.  When you're perennially losing to the eventual finalists/champs, you're not *that* far from being Top-tier.  And the 2nd/3rd best regular season in the league, they were still making strides/improvements.  Still a young team - OG and Steady-Freddie were rookies FFS.  The only contracts that are really an issue are Ibaka (over-paid for his production), and Norm Powell getting an $8M bump this year.  Otherwise, they still have room to do things - they're only the #5 highest team for next year, and the following year, JV has fairly affordable option - which he might not take, which frees up that room.

GSW should be more worried... they have $117M tied up in their top 5 players for next year... a collective $7M-ish raise.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #741 on: May 11, 2018, 02:05:05 PM »
You have young players that can develop but Lowry is 32 so he'll probably start declining. As you said, that Ibaka contract is not good, there is no more cap space available for them and they don't have good trading assets in picks.
Also, you saw the games, you must have seen how Casey looked when his team was not performing. Even Tyron Lue, who I think is one of the worst coaches in the league, still manages to keep calm during complicated situations. Casey is a good coach to develop a team but I don't think he has what it takes to bring out the best from his team during tough situations because he himself seems to be burdened by the pressure at those times, and that probably is trickling down to the team.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #742 on: May 11, 2018, 02:06:54 PM »
GSW should be more worried... they have $117M tied up in their top 5 players for next year... a collective $7M-ish raise.

I am curious to see what they end up doing.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #743 on: May 11, 2018, 02:09:42 PM »
GSW should be more worried... they have $117M tied up in their top 5 players for next year... a collective $7M-ish raise.

I am curious to see what they end up doing.

Pay a shitload of money in tax, keep finding gems in the draft?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #744 on: May 11, 2018, 02:21:27 PM »
Doesn't the cap go up next year though so that they wouldn't be hit with the tax?  I remember reading an article awhile back about how their situation isn't nearly as dire as it appears because of the coming cap increase and the way a lot of contracts can be structured, etc.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #745 on: May 11, 2018, 02:25:33 PM »
It goes up but not that much. The problem is that once you are above the cap you are very limited in what you can offer players. So unless they have some exceptions available they can't bring free agents, and if they want to do trades they can't bring more money than goes out. And those 117M will be over the cap, so, not much room to play with. Maybe Durant opting out helps them for a bit, nor sure how that works.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #746 on: May 11, 2018, 02:26:40 PM »
Also, you saw the games, you must have seen how Casey looked when his team was not performing.

Oh dear god, yes.  In game 3, I actually yelled at the TV at one point "Stop whining so much and FUCKING COACH!!!"  That 1st 1/2 was frustrating to watch - not just the players... Casey was unhinged.  Same with the end of game 1.
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Offline bosk1

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Offline contest_sanity

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #748 on: May 12, 2018, 01:56:56 PM »
Well, since Coach Bud only got dominated twice by LeBron in the playoffs, whereas Casey has lost to him three times, I guess that might represent a slight upgrade for Toronto, lol...

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #749 on: May 13, 2018, 04:21:27 PM »
Did not expect that.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #750 on: May 13, 2018, 04:37:58 PM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #751 on: May 13, 2018, 05:45:54 PM »
Could the Cavs have blown their load agains the Raptors?  Why didn't we see that Cavs team at all in the last 4 games !?!?!?
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #752 on: May 13, 2018, 06:38:04 PM »
From what I saw, it looked like everything the Celtics did worked, and everything the Cavs did did not.  The ball movement by the Celtics is something to behold. It feels like Brad Stevens could insert me, Joe and Chad into the starting lineup and they'd still make the ECF. :lol :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #753 on: May 13, 2018, 06:54:01 PM »
It feels like Brad Stevens could insert me, Joe and Chad into the starting lineup and they'd still make the ECF. :lol :lol

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #754 on: May 13, 2018, 07:03:08 PM »
 :lol

I can set a mean pick. For now on call me, Rick Robey.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #755 on: May 14, 2018, 06:14:30 AM »
Did not expect that.

Again, I'm not saying they can stop him, but they can slow him down. You put Brown on him first, then when he gets a bit tired you go to Tatum, they you can put Morris there and even Horford for a bit. Lebron will still score, but he will get tired a lot faster having to deal with different players all the time. Indiana did something similar during the first round and for the most part it worked. Their problem was that they didn't take the chances they had. You should have more faith in Stevens.

 ::)

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #756 on: May 14, 2018, 07:08:01 AM »
Settle down Bevis. :lol  LeBron had a bad game.  I do not expect the same for game 2 though the C's need to win is since they've been bad on the road in the first 2 rounds.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #757 on: May 14, 2018, 05:15:15 PM »
I agree with Cowherd's point today that James never shows his cards in Game 1 of a series. Notice that three of his four bad (by his standards) games in the playoffs have been in all three Game 1's.  He hangs back to see how the other team is going to play them/him and makes adjustments.  Now, this series won't be easy as "he will adjust and the other team is screwed" because Brad Stevens will keep making adjustments as well, but I wouldn't read a lot into yesterday's blowout.  It was one game in a series where you have to win four.

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #758 on: May 14, 2018, 05:25:52 PM »
I agree with Cowherd's point today that James never shows his cards in Game 1 of a series. Notice that three of his four bad (by his standards) games in the playoffs have been in all three Game 1's.  He hangs back to see how the other team is going to play them/him and makes adjustments.  Now, this series won't be easy as "he will adjust and the other team is screwed" because Brad Stevens will keep making adjustments as well, but I wouldn't read a lot into yesterday's blowout.  It was one game in a series where you have to win four.

The Cavs simply didn't show up. None of them. Tomorrow night will be vastly different for sure.

They had a stat today on the radio that Lebron is 2-12 in Road Game 1's.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #759 on: May 14, 2018, 08:45:18 PM »
That is crazy.

And the poor Rockets fans convinced themselves they had a shot.  They have no shot to win this series (barring injuries to Durant or Curry). 

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #760 on: May 14, 2018, 10:07:03 PM »
They DO have a shot.  Houston is a great team.  But the Warriors showed tonight why they SHOULD win this.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #761 on: May 14, 2018, 10:20:38 PM »
The Rockets have no answer for KD... plus, how about Klay in the 3rd qtr? That's when the game was broke open!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #762 on: May 15, 2018, 07:33:17 AM »
Yeah, the third quarter is where they usually come out and just put the dagger in other teams. 

The thing about the Rockets is, they spent this whole season putting together this new offensive scheme that can be pretty deadly when it is working.  But last night, they didn't stick to it at all after the opening minutes.  It was almost always Harden iso with the rest of the team standing around.  If they want to have any hope, they need to get back to that crazy pick-and-roll-you-to-death offense that got them where they are.  Not sure why they abandoned it last night.  Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with watching them collapse.  But it was baffling watching them do it by turning into something so unlike what they spent the year building. 
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #763 on: May 15, 2018, 08:54:01 AM »
That's a bad habit you see a lot during the playoffs. Something similar happened to the Raptors and to the Wizards to some extent. Some teams just go hero-ball when they feel pressure, maybe because the role-players are not as confident, maybe because superstars feel like it's their time to shine.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #764 on: May 15, 2018, 10:02:24 AM »
Although the Rockets had a great regular season, this is their biggest problem when facing the Warriors:

Quote
Their improved defense was middle of the pack in the NBA

That, combined with the fact that the Warriors DO play excellent defense that, over the course of a 7-game series, WILL be effective against even the best the Rockets can throw at them, will ultimately be the Rockets' undoing.  I still think the Warriors are the better team, but the Rockets CAN make it a very tough series if they get back to ball movement and running the offense through CP3, and get back on D to do a better job limiting easy transition points.

I think the biggest problem for the Rockets now will be getting out of their own heads.  They have been up front about this being an "all-in" season and them putting all their chips on designing a machine to beat the Warriors.  When a team has been beaten perennially by a certain other team and goes all-in on beating that one team in a season, a defeat like last night can be incredibly demoralizing.  And you could see it in their body language in the second quarter.  They came out of the gate at the beginning of the game throwing haymaker after haymaker, and after throwing their best shots, the Warriors were right there, tied up at halftime, and poised to make their trademark third quarter run to pull ahead.  It was like that scene in The Last Jedi with the Last Order firing all guns at Luke, only to have Kylo lose his friggin' mind when the dust clear a few seconds later and Luke was standing there unscathed.  I hate to draw any conclusions after game 1 in a 7 game series.  But in terms of psychology, I think the Rockets are in a BAD place in their heads right now, and that is going to be a big problem for them.

EDIT:  Oh, and CP3 is lucky he didn't get a flagrant for that elbow between Durant's legs toward the end of the second. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 10:09:30 AM by bosk1 »
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #765 on: May 15, 2018, 10:53:17 AM »
^ middle paragraph could've been written about the Raptors/Cavs.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #766 on: May 15, 2018, 11:10:00 AM »
Yeah, I guess that's true in a sense.  But did they really make wholesale changes this season?  I don't follow them, but I was under the impression that they are basically who they were last season, and just had tightened things up and matured as a team.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #767 on: May 15, 2018, 12:00:51 PM »
Yeah, I guess that's true in a sense.  But did they really make wholesale changes this season?  I don't follow them, but I was under the impression that they are basically who they were last season, and just had tightened things up and matured as a team.

Not wholesale - the top-4 (Lowry, DDR, JV and Ibaka) stayed their top-4.  But there were big changes to the 2nd unit - almost complete turnover there - and they contributed a lot this year.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #768 on: May 15, 2018, 12:04:57 PM »
That's what makes this Celtic's run so unbelievable.  They had 4 players return from last years team. Lost their #2 guy in the first game.  Lost their #1 the last month of the season yet they are back in the Conference finals. 
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #769 on: May 15, 2018, 12:33:47 PM »
Fuck Boston.

 :biggrin:
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion