Author Topic: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions  (Read 4057 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8264
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 01:29:32 PM »
Apparently the Spurs are looking to trade LMA. I hope they can do it soon so they can offer Millsap a good contract

The dude Phil Jackson's got to go...


Yeah, the Knicks have been a train wreck since he's been onboard.
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24857
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 02:11:25 PM »
YOU DO NOT TRADE WITH FUCKING BOSTON. EVER.

Sam, I no sooner read that and then I see that it's being reported locally that the C's are talking to Minnesota about the 7th pick.  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline kingshmegland

  • defender of the brew!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 36537
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2017, 02:53:01 PM »
Phil is high if he thinks the C's would do that trade.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2017, 03:13:04 PM »
YOU DO NOT TRADE WITH FUCKING BOSTON. EVER.

Sam, I no sooner read that and then I see that it's being reported locally that the C's are talking to Minnesota about the 7th pick.  :lol

Well, the Wolves trading with them is fine. I just mean from a NY perspective, the Knicks never should.

What the Wolves would want is interesting. I mean, I look at the C's roster, and I don't see anything that really gives us something other than perhaps Bradley (assuming Thomas is untouchable).

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8264
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2017, 07:25:10 AM »
Man, Chicago fucked up real hard last night, I can't believe they actually went for that trade. It's good that they finally accepted to go into full rebuild mode but they could have gotten a better return for a top 10 guy like Buttler.
For the T-wolves, this was huge, they got the veteran experience they desperately needed and in the form of a great 2 way player. If they manage to trade Rubio and get Lowry in FA they will be one of the teams to watch this season for sure, they could even break into the 3rd spot in the west.

I'm still waiting for Ainge to stop being so freaking conservative and do a deal to improve the squad, Tatum is a great asset to trade for an all-star and a guy they don't need with Crowder and Brown already in them team. I can understand he doesn't want to give much for PG given he might be a 1 year rental but seeing how little Chicago ended up getting for Buttler they sure could have made a better offer.

I'm also very intrigued about the Spurs, they picked a PG in the first round already having Murray and Parker in the roster and supposedly interested in CP3, not sure why they want so much depth at that position. I would love if they could move LMA and Danny Green for a couple of peaks or cheap players and then sign Millsap, CP3 and re-sign Simmons, that would be one hell of a team.
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2637
  • Hard-hearted harbinger of haggis
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2017, 07:54:38 AM »
Can't really comment too much on the draft, since I don't follow these young players that closely.  Just a few thoughts:

Lakers did what they were expected to do in acquiring Ball.  Solid pick for them.  Interested in seeing what they do.

By all accounts, the Kings did REALLY well with their 4 picks.  They look to be one of the big winners in this draft, and it would be nice to see it pay off in terms of them being competitive.

Minnesota seems to have done really well with the Butler trade.  Are they the next big winner after the first round?  On the flip side...

Chicago...  :lolpalm:

Not sure what to think of the Warriors' move.  Picking up a big man seems like a pretty smart move.  Just not sure about the price.  Especially given that their salaries look to have them somewhat strapped for cash.  This seems to imply that other moves are in the pipeline.  I just have no idea what they are.  They MUST keep their big 4 intact.  They've reportedly locked up Iguodala, which is key.  Personally, I think Livingston is a must as well.  I hope they aren't dealing him.

"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline T-ski

  • Posts: 885
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2017, 08:16:46 AM »
as a Bucks fan, I can't tell you how much I'm laughing at the Bulls right now.
Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2017, 09:10:05 AM »
As the forum's only (I think) Timberwolves junkie, here's my perspective on Butler:


 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal

Dude is still young (turns 28 in September), signed for two more seasons (has a player option for third), and is in his prime. Two-way player. Exactly what the Wolves needed. Defense, still young, dynamic offensive player, and leader.

On the other side, Chicago fans shouldn't be so quick to dismiss this. I have watched LaVine play probably 40 times (four or five live, the rest on TV). He's a BEAST. He made so many strides last year before getting hurt. He has that killer instinct scoring mentality and elevation on his shot ala Kobe and MJ. He's got that knack. Mark my words, in an offense catered to him as the #1 option, he'll be 25-28 ppg next year. Book it right now. He's going to light up the league. Tireless worker. Freak athlete. Not afraid of taking the big shot.

Honestly, had Butler only had one year left on his deal, I wouldn't have wanted this to happen. The ONLY reason I am good with it, from a Wolves perspective, is that we have him for a solid two years, and then that player option for a third. LaVine is going to be THAT good. The problem was, with KAT and Wiggins, LaVine was always going to be the third banana in Minnesota. It would have come to a head soon, and everyone knew it. LaVine is too good to be a third option.

Remember when Harden left OKC, because OKC wouldn't pay him and he didn't want to come off the bench? Then he goes to Houston and lights it up? Well, consider Chicago to be LaVine's version of Houston. Because LaVine is going to take the league by storm and be a perennial All Star. Trust me.

Dunn has made strides. The jury is still out. I like his defensive intensity, but his offensive game needs work. I think this year will be the tell all year for him. If he's given the keys and starts at the point all year, you'll know by the end of the year if you need a future PG or not. My guess is Dunn will be fine. He'll be a 15 ppg, 7 ast guy, a bit in the Chauncey Billups mold, but with better defense.

As for Lauri Markannan -- best shooter in the draft. I think he's going to be something special. The Bulls did the right thing, and really got some good stuff for Butler. I wouldn't be depressed.

Honestly -- as a Wolves fan, had Butler only had one year left, I would have been really angry. LaVine, when it is all said and one, will be way better than Butler. Wait and see. You just got your REAL baby Jordan.

For the Wolves, the trade makes all kinds of sense, and positions the team for the playoffs. The next question is...will Thibs stick with Rubio. I think at this point, if Rubio can be the shooter he was the last two months of the season, they should stick with him. What the team needs now is shooting depth. A stretch 4, and a couple of combo guards with range.


Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2017, 09:22:37 PM »
^ correct me if I am wrong, but isn't LaVine still recovering from a ACL injury? He might not be as explosive early on this coming season, assuming he is a 100% healed.

Also, I like Thib as a defensive minded coach, but I never appreciate his rotation / player minutes. I hope he won't run his starters to the ground this year... but that's a rather wishful thinking here. So good luck, but the T-Wolves do look good on paper and have a legit chance in making the playoffs.
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2017, 09:23:40 PM »
Michael Jordan fan has crying Lebron James image tattooed to leg http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...e-tattooed-leg
via @ESPN App http://www.espn.com/espn/apps/espn

This is classic  :biggrin: Man, the tattoo artist is awesome!!  :tup
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11688
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2017, 03:45:29 AM »
Michael Jordan fan has crying Lebron James image tattooed to leg http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...e-tattooed-leg
via @ESPN App http://www.espn.com/espn/apps/espn

This is classic  :biggrin: Man, the tattoo artist is awesome!!  :tup

Well that's bizarre. But I'm sure the super-successful, set for generations James is unaffected.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 26097
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2017, 06:52:33 AM »
I think it's funny how much James is in the head of MJ superfans who have elliptic seizures every time anyone even suggests that someone could ever be as great as their hero.

Offline black_biff_stadler

  • 6th place finalist at New Orleans Skullet Fest 2010
  • DT.net Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13464
  • Gender: Male
  • blackwater_floyd, get it?
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2017, 06:24:28 PM »
Yep. They somehow think they aren't any less dignified of a person for freaking out 10 times as badly about him griping about calls or coming off the wrong way in press conferences. Jordan fans are worse than AIDS and their hero is by wide account a piece of shit to fans in real life. I lived in NC for 5 years and heard numerous accounts of him giving fans the cold shoulder at events that were specifically designed for fan interaction.

But let's keep giving LBJ shit for "chasing a ring" because he didn't do the honorable thing and wait in Cleveland for clones of Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson, Horace Grant, and John Paxson to arrive.
Users who've sigged me (Join today!): LCArenas, Jakartabassplayer, LeeHarveyKennedy, Global Laziness, Portrucci, obscure, FlyingBIZKIT, alirocker08, senecadawg2, DebraKadabra, JayOctavarium, Cedar redaC, (almost) bout to crash, ? (the forum member, not the fucking punctuation mark), Zeltar, lonestar, ASacrificedSon

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6226
  • Gender: Male
  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2017, 05:28:49 AM »
I think the worst part about that is that it's headline news a over at ESPN. Like... Seriously?
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2017, 08:14:27 AM »
When you have 4 bad seasons in a row, you can't help but be caution about rooting for your team, lol!  :lol  :lol  :lol

1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2017, 12:33:45 PM »
^ correct me if I am wrong, but isn't LaVine still recovering from a ACL injury? He might not be as explosive early on this coming season, assuming he is a 100% healed.

Also, I like Thib as a defensive minded coach, but I never appreciate his rotation / player minutes. I hope he won't run his starters to the ground this year... but that's a rather wishful thinking here. So good luck, but the T-Wolves do look good on paper and have a legit chance in making the playoffs.

He is, but he's already on the court doing drills. He'll be ready. I really wish they would have taken Rubio instead of Lavine. Lavine is SO GOOD. But I get it. Makes absolute financial sense as well as playing sense. The Bulls got a cornerstone who will become a household name.

As for Thibs, I watched all year. All I can say is this -- he does rely on his starters too much, but he's also in a tough spot, because the Wolves weren't deep. He tried resting them earlier in the year, and the Wolves were getting crushed. So he just seemed to say the hell with it, and let the starters play 38 minutes a game. I don't think that contributed to Zach's injury. I think these guys are plenty conditioned. But I also think that Thibs will cut down the minutes once the team is deeper.

In regard to MJ and LBJ -- Michael will always be a more dominant scorer and better defender than Lebron. Lebron is a better playmaker, and overall athlete. Both are exceptional. But Lebron doesn't have the dominance that Michael did.

Michael dominated the game in an era known for defense. Lebron fills up the stat sheet in an era where offense is encouraged. Could Lebron have been as good in Michael's era? Possibly. I'd say yes, but he wouldn't be a 25-30 ppg scorer. He'd probably average 20-25, and then put up a line around 8/8. He'd probably be...I'd say he'd be a no. 1 guy on any team, but his stats would be just slightly better than Pippen (who is a top 50 NBA player).

I was reading SLAM and all the hoops mags back in the day, and I remember the small blurb on Lebron James as the next big thing when he was just a really young kid, probably jr. high school. Seventh, eighth grade maybe. It was a long time ago. He's justified the billing. But Michael Jordan (and I rooted for the Knicks in addition to the Wolves, so I am no MJ fanboy)...he has a killer lockdown mode that Lebron doesn't have. And that separates them.

And there's no shame in that. Magic didn't have that either. And Magic is a legend. LBJ is a legend for this era, and top 25 NBA all time. Where he sits on that list is always going to be subjective. I don't sell him short at all. He's one of the all-time best. But he's very different than Michael Jordan, and Jordan will always sit above LBJ for me on those lists.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 12:39:59 PM by Samsara »

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2017, 07:32:09 PM »
I still think Thibodeau is a good coach, a good defensive-minded coach. I understand the T-Wolves weren't deep or super talented, but isn't it what young team is all about? I can understand Thib wants to win as bad as any coach, so that's one of the reasons why he play his starters very heavy minutes. However as the coach, at least I thought so, should be the one to help develop them by giving them playing time and such. Sure, young players will make mistakes, but they won't learn from it if you only play the starters. This is something both Pop and Kerr are good at, by giving unproven rooks meaningful PTs... that's why we get to see guys like McCaw playing decent minutes in the Finals. All in all, I think he needs to spread the minutes more evenly in this upcoming season, even if it means a few more L's... I like Thib as a coach, and I think T-Wolves will be good in a long run, but he needs to look at long term instead of trying to win quick.

Also, I like your MJ / LBJ analogy, and you sir are pretty much spot on on all points there. Well said.  :tup
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24857
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2017, 07:49:34 PM »
In regard to MJ and LBJ -- Michael will always be a more dominant scorer and better defender than Lebron. Lebron is a better playmaker, and overall athlete. Both are exceptional. But Lebron doesn't have the dominance that Michael did.

Michael dominated the game in an era known for defense. Lebron fills up the stat sheet in an era where offense is encouraged. Could Lebron have been as good in Michael's era? Possibly. I'd say yes, but he wouldn't be a 25-30 ppg scorer. He'd probably average 20-25, and then put up a line around 8/8. He'd probably be...I'd say he'd be a no. 1 guy on any team, but his stats would be just slightly better than Pippen (who is a top 50 NBA player).

I was reading SLAM and all the hoops mags back in the day, and I remember the small blurb on Lebron James as the next big thing when he was just a really young kid, probably jr. high school. Seventh, eighth grade maybe. It was a long time ago. He's justified the billing. But Michael Jordan (and I rooted for the Knicks in addition to the Wolves, so I am no MJ fanboy)...he has a killer lockdown mode that Lebron doesn't have. And that separates them.

And there's no shame in that. Magic didn't have that either. And Magic is a legend. LBJ is a legend for this era, and top 25 NBA all time. Where he sits on that list is always going to be subjective. I don't sell him short at all. He's one of the all-time best. But he's very different than Michael Jordan, and Jordan will always sit above LBJ for me on those lists.

Well put, Brian.

There's a tentativeness about Lebron, where MJ was all killer.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 26097
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2017, 08:02:48 PM »
Here is my beef with that argument: essentially saying, "Jordan will always be ahead of James (or any current player) no matter what," is basically, "I don't care what happens, I refuse to change my mind."  Say James continues to play at at elite level, wins 2 more MVP awards and the next 4 championships.  Would you still say Jordan is better?  I don't see how.  Now, we can sit here and say that probably won't happen, and feel pretty safe about that prediction, but it is possible.  Jordan's career is over; James' is not.  Saying one guy cannot never catch the other, when they are both in the same stratosphere, and one guy's career is over while the other's is not, just doesn't add up.

Offline kingshmegland

  • defender of the brew!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 36537
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2017, 08:14:42 PM »
LeBron is amazing but we can tangently say that Jordan willed his team's to win championships.

I admire James but at their scoring and level of excellence you have to look at things to separate them.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Accelerando

  • Disciple of Mark Tremonti
  • Posts: 2933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2017, 09:11:17 PM »
Congratulations to Russell Westbrook, the 2016-2017 NBA MVP!

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2637
  • Hard-hearted harbinger of haggis
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2017, 08:14:26 AM »
Congratulations to Russell Westbrook, the 2016-2017 NBA MVP!

That was what I was feeling at the close of the season, so no surprise there.  But this is all so late that I can't bring myself to care much.  It just doesn't make any sense how late the NBA does this.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2017, 08:42:07 AM »
Here is my beef with that argument: essentially saying, "Jordan will always be ahead of James (or any current player) no matter what," is basically, "I don't care what happens, I refuse to change my mind."  Say James continues to play at at elite level, wins 2 more MVP awards and the next 4 championships.  Would you still say Jordan is better?  I don't see how.  Now, we can sit here and say that probably won't happen, and feel pretty safe about that prediction, but it is possible.  Jordan's career is over; James' is not.  Saying one guy cannot never catch the other, when they are both in the same stratosphere, and one guy's career is over while the other's is not, just doesn't add up.

Kev, I think we've seen enough of Lebron now in what...13 seasons, to state that. He's played essentially an entire career already. Anything else he does is gravy. James likely won't ever win an MVP award again because he's hellbent on bringing in as many great players as he can so he can rest more, and the MVP voters are likely not to vote for him again. MAYBE he gets one more. MAYBE. He's not going to win four more championships.  :lol He may get ONE, possibly. And that is an incredible career, and he's one of the best in the history of the game. But he's not on Jordan's level. He's just not there.

Honestly, I know you're a huge Lebron fan, and obviously, you have the right to disagree with me. But picking apart my very complimentary examination of Lebron by saying what you did, pretty much shows that your allegiance is to Lebron, instead of objectively looking at things. I'm not a Jordan fanboy. i hated Jordan. But the numbers and film don't lie.

Congratulations to Russell Westbrook, the 2016-2017 NBA MVP!

WELL deserved. The voters did the right thing. It was a season for the ages, and if OKC had lost Westbrook, the team would have struggled to win 30 games. Westbrook WAS that team. I don't think he'll win another one unless he brings OKC to the championship, but man what a season.

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8264
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2017, 10:11:05 AM »
Congratulations to Russell Westbrook, the 2016-2017 NBA MVP!

That was what I was feeling at the close of the season, so no surprise there.  But this is all so late that I can't bring myself to care much.  It just doesn't make any sense how late the NBA does this.

Agreed, doing this after the playoffs doesn't make sense, except when you think that this probably fills their pockets with money. Hell, maybe do it before the draft and it will probably get much more attention.
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24857
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2017, 10:42:33 AM »
Speaking of Lebron...Kev, don't read this..







I just took my kids to Five Guys and on the wall was a GQ magazine cover with Lebron when he was 24. Obviously, he looks younger, but his head seemed so much smaller. Like a Barry Bonds style transformation.
What is the NBA Drug Testing policy like? You really don't hear much about it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2017, 12:38:25 PM »
I think the policy is "smoke it if you got it!"  :rollin :rollin

I honestly don't know what the policy is, but I do expect it to come up in the next CBA discussions. I am sure some players (not saying Lebron) are doing something to gain an edge...

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8264
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2017, 06:05:08 AM »
So, Phil is out of New York. Want to play a guess game of who's the next one to fuck up that franchise?
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2017, 06:31:37 AM »
So, Phil is out of New York. Want to play a guess game of who's the next one to fuck up that franchise?

Billy King sounds like a GREAT candidate. He used to run the Nets AND the Sixers to the ground, so he is experienced with a big market team...  :lol
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2017, 07:56:30 AM »
So, Phil is out of New York. Want to play a guess game of who's the next one to fuck up that franchise?

The Knicks are my hometown team and second favorite. It's been painful to see and read what's been going on. I heard on Mike and Mike this morning Stephen A. Smith (who I can't stand) shout from the mountain top that the next coach should be Mark Jackson. I agree he should be the coach. He said to leave Steve Mills as GM. To be honest, that's fine too.

I think the move is to cut ties with Hornacek, bring in a New York Knicks legend in Mark Jackson (who finally has gotten credit for shaping the Warriors) as coach, and let things move forward. Carmelo does not want to leave, and I don't think he needs to. The Knicks just need to play more aggressively, and have less drama.

I liked the Knicks draft pick (Ntilkina), and think he'll probably be a solid starting PG in the league. Nothing flashy, but a 12-15/6 type guy stats wise. You can build off of Porzingis and Hermangomez at your 4 and 5 spots. Let Carmelo be Carmelo at the 3. Lee at the 2 is a decent filler. They need some rotation guys off the bench that are solid. But with the right coach at the helm, the Knicks should be a playoff team with that.

I know I am biased since I would like to remove Rubio from the Wolves' roster, but I honestly think Rubio would be a great fit in New York with his flashy style of play. He can't shoot (except for the last two months of this past season), but I think he would be a great mentor to Ntilkina for the next two or three seasons (the length of Rubio's current contract). I'm not sure the Knicks have any assets the Wolves would want however, with the exception of Porzingis, which is obviously now not happening (thank God from the Knicks point of view).

Time will tell, but the Knicks should be better. The whole "triangle" debacle was stupid.

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2017, 08:26:38 AM »
So, Phil is out of New York. Want to play a guess game of who's the next one to fuck up that franchise?

The Knicks are my hometown team and second favorite. It's been painful to see and read what's been going on. I heard on Mike and Mike this morning Stephen A. Smith (who I can't stand) shout from the mountain top that the next coach should be Mark Jackson. I agree he should be the coach. He said to leave Steve Mills as GM. To be honest, that's fine too.

I think the move is to cut ties with Hornacek, bring in a New York Knicks legend in Mark Jackson (who finally has gotten credit for shaping the Warriors) as coach, and let things move forward. Carmelo does not want to leave, and I don't think he needs to. The Knicks just need to play more aggressively, and have less drama.

I liked the Knicks draft pick (Ntilkina), and think he'll probably be a solid starting PG in the league. Nothing flashy, but a 12-15/6 type guy stats wise. You can build off of Porzingis and Hermangomez at your 4 and 5 spots. Let Carmelo be Carmelo at the 3. Lee at the 2 is a decent filler. They need some rotation guys off the bench that are solid. But with the right coach at the helm, the Knicks should be a playoff team with that.

I know I am biased since I would like to remove Rubio from the Wolves' roster, but I honestly think Rubio would be a great fit in New York with his flashy style of play. He can't shoot (except for the last two months of this past season), but I think he would be a great mentor to Ntilkina for the next two or three seasons (the length of Rubio's current contract). I'm not sure the Knicks have any assets the Wolves would want however, with the exception of Porzingis, which is obviously now not happening (thank God from the Knicks point of view).

Time will tell, but the Knicks should be better. The whole "triangle" debacle was stupid.

How about getting David Griffin as GM / team Prez? Perhaps some guy named LeBron may come the year after?
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Nekov

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8264
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2017, 08:33:55 AM »
Griffin sounds like a good idea but apparently they're going after Ujiri.
When Ginobili gets hot, I get hot in my pants. 

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2017, 08:58:35 AM »
Griffin sounds like a good idea but apparently they're going after Ujiri.

To be honest, I think Griffin's success is pretty much because he got the benefit of Lebron, nothing more. I haven't liked many of the moves he made (except for handing the Wolves Andrew Wiggins- thanks, Griff), and the Cavs are WAY over the cap. Once Lebron bolts again (and he will) that team will fall apart.

Ujiri is an interesting name. He's done a solid job with the Raptors. I'd applaud the move, but he better insist on complete franchise control from Dolan -- and be willing to walk away if Dolan tries to impose his will (like he did with Steve Walsh and made him trade for Carmelo, which was a mistake).

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6226
  • Gender: Male
  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2017, 09:50:06 AM »
Jackson's tenure with the Knicks was an absolute dumpster fire. From his questionable signings (Noah) to his obsession with the triangle, he's left them in pretty bad shape. I'm interested to see who they replace him with.

With regards to the Jordan vs LeBron debate: The two are very similar statistically. To me, if Jordan was a 100/100, LeBron is like a 97. It's really close. I think that there are a few important differences between them:

1) Despite what the media would have you believe, Jordan had bad games and mediocre series just like LeBron. However, Jordan never had a series like LeBron did against Dallas in 2011. That's the tiebreaker between them in terms of consistency.

2) LeBron will probably end up playing for a much longer time than Jordan. By the time LeBron hangs them up, he could end up playing 50% more All-NBA caliber seasons than Jordan did. So while Jordan was probably the better player in terms of prime performance, James' career might be more valuable.

3) LeBron played against significantly worse competition in his own conference, but significantly better competition in the Finals. I am not sure which is more favorable from a statistical standpoint, but I do have a lot of sympathy for LeBron for having to go through the juggernauts he has.
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 1477
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2017, 10:04:38 AM »
This move seems interesting... Harden was playing at MVP level at the 1 spot... I know it is CP3, but why mess with it?

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @WojVerticalNBA
After Chris Paul agreed to opt-in on contract, Clippers are trading All-Star guard to the Houston Rockets

Sources: After Paul informed Clippers he'd sign w/ HOU in FA, teams agreed to deal sending Beverley, Decker, Williams and 2018 FRP for Paul.
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010

Offline Samsara

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Gender: Male
Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2017, 10:37:16 AM »
This move seems interesting... Harden was playing at MVP level at the 1 spot... I know it is CP3, but why mess with it?

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @WojVerticalNBA
After Chris Paul agreed to opt-in on contract, Clippers are trading All-Star guard to the Houston Rockets

Sources: After Paul informed Clippers he'd sign w/ HOU in FA, teams agreed to deal sending Beverley, Decker, Williams and 2018 FRP for Paul.

Wow. Why? Because remember what D'Antoni does with PGs. Chris Paul is going to average like 15 assists next year, and Harden is going to get even more easy buckets. They basically traded bench depth and a first round pick for a future Hall of Famer. Best backcourt in the NBA, bar none. Incredible, ballsy move.

Jackson's tenure with the Knicks was an absolute dumpster fire. From his questionable signings (Noah) to his obsession with the triangle, he's left them in pretty bad shape. I'm interested to see who they replace him with.

With regards to the Jordan vs LeBron debate: The two are very similar statistically. To me, if Jordan was a 100/100, LeBron is like a 97. It's really close. I think that there are a few important differences between them:

1) Despite what the media would have you believe, Jordan had bad games and mediocre series just like LeBron. However, Jordan never had a series like LeBron did against Dallas in 2011. That's the tiebreaker between them in terms of consistency.

2) LeBron will probably end up playing for a much longer time than Jordan. By the time LeBron hangs them up, he could end up playing 50% more All-NBA caliber seasons than Jordan did. So while Jordan was probably the better player in terms of prime performance, James' career might be more valuable.

3) LeBron played against significantly worse competition in his own conference, but significantly better competition in the Finals. I am not sure which is more favorable from a statistical standpoint, but I do have a lot of sympathy for LeBron for having to go through the juggernauts he has.

Great breakdown. I think the key is longevity. Jordan obviously had a couple seasons off, but in this era (which is why it is so hard to compare, because the eras are totally different), Lebron may play 20 years.

But, with each having played 13 seasons (taking the Wizards years out of the equation for Jordan), here is what you get:

Jordan - PPG - 31.5
James - PPG - 27.1

Jordan - FGM/FGA/% - 11.8/23.3/.505
James - FGM/FGA/% - 9.8   /19.6/.501

Jordan - APG - 5.4
James - APG - 7.0

Jordan - RPG - 6.3
James - RPG - 7.3

Jordan - Steals per game - 2.5
James - SPG - 1.6

Jordan - Turnovers per game - 2.8
James - TPG - 3.4

Jordan - FT/FTA/% - 7.3   8.7   .838
James - FT/FTA/% - 6.1   8.2   .740   

Jordan - League MVP Awards - 5

James - League MVP Awards - 4

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We could do this all day. Pretty much, through the same amount of years to this point, Jordan is the superior player. It's close, but he was the better guy. James will never score more, but yeah, at the end of the day, some more of the aggregate stats will be in Lebron's favor. But then you have to think of non-statistical things. Closing out a game, do you want Jordan or Lebron. Most take Jordan, hands-down. The guy has that killer instinct that Lebron does not have. Lebron is awesome, but he's below Jordan.

And I will say it again -- being a Knicks fan for Jordan's career -- I hate the guy. But I respect the hell out of his game.