Author Topic: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions  (Read 68752 times)

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Offline kaos2900

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1015 on: June 01, 2018, 06:43:29 AM »
1. The refs ruined that game.
2. JR Smith made a HUGE mistake BUT.... why did Lebron not have the ball with 4 seconds left?

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1016 on: June 01, 2018, 07:01:55 AM »
1. The refs ruined that game.
2. JR Smith made a HUGE mistake BUT.... why did Lebron not have the ball with 4 seconds left?

Because JR Smith rebounded the ball and went into run the clock out mode......

Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1017 on: June 01, 2018, 07:32:31 AM »
1. The refs ruined that game.
2. JR Smith made a HUGE mistake BUT.... why did Lebron not have the ball with 4 seconds left?

The refs definitely ruined that game and JR... my gosh

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1018 on: June 01, 2018, 09:11:31 AM »
In case anyone thinks the refs were pro-Dubs... How many non-calls does Curry get in a game? How lucky are GSW that JR's "slip" didn't seriously injure Klay?

The refs last night were terrible with GSW if you look at their records so I don't think these refs were pro Warriors... if that's what some of you guys think.  :hat
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1019 on: June 01, 2018, 09:41:47 AM »
That game was a lot more interesting than it should have been.  :lol  I was intrigued going into it when they announced the starting lineups and I was listening to some pregame analysis on local radio.  It was an unexpected lineup because, while it gave the Cavs a HUGE rebounding advantage, it created defensive liabilities that would leave them exposed.  Basically, it could work and give the Cavs an unexpected advantage, but only if (1) the Warriors uncharacteristically missed shots; (2) the Cavs took advantage of the advantage and rebounded well; and (3) Love stepped up his offense and scored in the 20-pt. range to make up for the defensive liability. 

The stars aligned and it almost worked.

The Warriors DID uncharacteristically miss shots.  Look at the 3-pt. shooting, for example:
Green:  2 of 5 (okay, not too surprising there)
Durant:  1 of 7 (VERY surprising)
Curry:  5 of 11
Thompson:  5 of 10

The Cavs DID take advantage on the boards, outrebounding the Warriors 53 to 38.

Love scored 21.  And he played better defense than is typical.  So he exceeded expectations on BOTH ends of the court.

All in all, I have to give Lue props for putting together such a game plan, and the Cavs for executing it.  The stars aligned.  The Cavs threw their biggest, best haymaker.  And they still couldn't get the win.  It would have been huge if they did.  But they didn't.  I'm not sure where they go from here.  Despite this first game being close, I don't expect a close series.  The Cavs gave--and probably exceeded--their best, and the Warriors AGAIN came out with frustrating lack of intensity and focus.  I don't see either of those trends being sustainable over the remaining 6 games.  I just don't.

Some other notes:

Poor J.R.  He is getting ROASTED.  And I get it.  But in the moment, it's perfectly understandable how he could have done what he did.  Yeah, the Warriors got "lucky" that J.R. had a mental lapse.  But it's not nearly the egregious lapse that it's easy to make it out to be.  It's just an egregious result.  And it's a blunder that seems glaring for anyone who is not actually on the floor, in the action on court.  But in the heat of the moment, on court, what happened isn't that unreasonable. 

Javale :heart J.R.:  That inexplicably botched open slam by McGee was destined to end up on a blooper reel or Shaqtin a Fool.  ...until J.R. happened.  I'm sure McGee is thrilled that the spotlight quickly moved to someone else.  Thanks, J.R.!   :lol

J.R. dodges a bullet:  When J.R. submarined Thompson, it looked like Joe Lacob and Jeremy Renner were going to rush him from the bleachers and shank him when Klay went down.  It was pretty clear that it was unintentional, and that he realized right away that Klay was hurt and felt bad.  I think Warriors fans AND J.R. breathed a sigh of relief when Klay came back.

LeBron:  Wow.  What a game.  What a performance.  [also, what a typically narcissistic post-game interview, but I digress]  I can't stand him.  But I also can't deny that he is the greatest of all time and is STILL doing things that are mind-boggling.  And in many ways, he is playing better now than he EVER has.  It is just mindblowing.   :hefdaddy  BUT...

Curry's D:  I haven't seen it talked about, and I think it largely went unnoticed, but Curry played OUTSTANDING defense.  That shouldn't really be surprising, because he is an exceptional defender.  But his defense is SO underrated.  Last night, he got switched onto LeBron pretty frequently.  And, yes, there were plenty of times LeBron took him.  That's fine.  There is elite; and then there is LeBron.  He's going to do what he's going to do.  And he's going to do it even more against a smaller player.  That's just reality.  But Stef almost always knew where his help man would be, and consistently battled for position to force LeBron to the help so that LeBron had to pass instead of shoot.  If anyone goes back and watches the game again, I invite you to watch for that specific aspect of the game.  Watch how many times Curry was on LeBron and forced LeBron into coverage that made him pass instead of shoot.  It's not flashy because it's not rife with blocks, stuffs, and steals.  But it's incredibly solid defense.  Yes, it is team defense.  But it takes tremendous basketball IQ AND the physical and mental ability to understand and execute the team defense game plan for that to happen, and Curry demonstrates that over and over and over.

Durant no-show:  Okay, yeah, it may seem silly to call a "no-show" on a guy who had 26 points, 9 rebounds, and 6 assists.  But Durant was frustratingly unfocused, and despite those numbers, felt like a liability far too often.  He went to iso plays when ball movement was needed.  He took poor shots when he was on cold streaks and the Warriors needed points.  He failed to box out the smaller J.R. Smith on that infamous play at the end of regulation.  I dunno.  He didn't have a bad game.  But he did not play within the Warriors' system, and I kept feeling like it cost them SEVERAL opportunities to take control of the game like they should have.


I know the narrative is that LeBron is trying to do the unthinkable with a cast of nobodies, but WOW... who would have thought one of his teammates would make a Seattle Seahawks level blunder at the most crucial part of the game.

 ::)  Not really accurate at all, and the same can be said about the Seahawks call.  That just shows a lack of understanding of sports.  It's easy to be an armchair quarterback, but when you aren't on the field/court, you really have no standing to second-guess a split-second judgment call that, in the mind of the person making it, is well reasoned and well intentioned.

1. The refs ruined that game.

Not really seeing it.  Overall, I thought it was a pretty well-officiated (but not perfect) game.  The only thing that stands out is the Durant/LeBron play toward the end of the game.  And there, the right process was followed, and the right call was made.  It only stands out because (1) it came at a crucial point in the game; (2) whichever way the call went, it would give a big advantage to whichever team benefitted; (3) it looked like an extremely CLOSE call; and (4) the process was very atypical and ended in a reversal of what was called on court.  Admittedly, yes, that does make it open to criticism and debate.  I get why people will focus on it.  Heck, you even had the NBA rules analyst in the moment saying it should have gone the other way.  But at the end of the day, they followed the right process and made the right call, IMO.   Here is what the league said:

Quote
Clarity on blk/charge review: The trigger is that if in the last 2 minutes of the 4th or overtime officials have doubt whether the defender was in the restricted area. While reviewing, they may also confirm if the defender was in legal guarding position when the contact occurred.

So, what triggered the review was simply the question of whether LeBron was in the restricted area.  From just about any angle, it sure looks to us the fans [or the commentators, or the coaches, or...] that he wasn't close enough to the restricted area to make it a close call.  But in the moment, to the refs that are right there and are trying to look at a bunch of different things in real time, I can see how they might have been unsure.  And given the conflicting calls on the court in the split second after the call, and the officials' body language as they were making the call, it is clear that they weren't sure.  Durant had seen the same restricted area in the final 2:00 issue come up in the regular season, so he immediately lobbied for review.  So they did.  We can armchair QB it and say they shouldn't have reviewed.  But if they were unsure--and they clearly were--the review is legitimate.

And going back to the rule, once they are reviewing that, reviewing whether it is a charge or a blocking foul is also fair game.  They did so.  And they reached the conclusion that it as a blocking foul.  Close call.  I think they were right, and nobody but LeBron is saying otherwise.  But what LeBron is also ignoring is that even if the benefit of the call should go in his favor, Durant was in a position to maneuver around LeBron, but for Green coming in from the side and running into Durant's right (shooting) arm before the Durant/LeBron contact.  That should have been the basis for the defensive foul call, and not LeBron, IMO.  But at the end of the day, although it was a VERY close call, it looks like they made the correct (i.e. defensive) call.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 11:31:34 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline pg1067

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1020 on: June 01, 2018, 09:45:47 AM »
Kev, how am I supposed to like LeBron after seeing what he wore walking into the stadium last night?! :lol

Search for it! Lol

That was just BAD.  According to Dan Patrick, James's man purse cost over $40k!

P.S. "Dubs" might be the dumbest sounding nickname I've ever heard.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 01:24:30 PM by pg1067 »
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Offline Lonk

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1022 on: June 01, 2018, 01:58:38 PM »
Great stuff, especially the Thanos one and the Chopped one.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1023 on: June 01, 2018, 02:29:53 PM »
I liked Ambien the best.

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Offline Accelerando

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1024 on: June 01, 2018, 02:53:50 PM »
Great stuff, especially the Thanos one and the Chopped one.

NEVER go to the Ice Cream machine on Chopped  :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1025 on: June 01, 2018, 04:48:20 PM »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1026 on: June 01, 2018, 05:46:30 PM »


The refs definitely ruined that game and JR... my gosh

This is pretty much the sentiment by almost everyone today.

JR Smith is the dumbest person ever, and the officials ruined the game (this has been the sentiment nearly everywhere).

But this is the NBA.  I can, off the top of my head, think of countless playoff games over the last 30+ years that were ruined by the officiating, and this is right near the top of the list (along with 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 and some of the games in the '06 finals).

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1027 on: June 01, 2018, 06:14:45 PM »
I am pretty confident that few people other than LeBron and two people on this forum think the officials ruined the game, and none of those appear to be objective.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1028 on: June 01, 2018, 06:18:25 PM »
I think the refs ruin every playoff game but bad calls will balance out.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1029 on: June 02, 2018, 06:48:38 AM »


 :lol :lol :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1030 on: June 02, 2018, 09:21:39 AM »
 :rollin

Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1031 on: June 02, 2018, 09:50:02 AM »


 :rollin :rollin :rollin

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1032 on: June 02, 2018, 11:17:24 PM »
Poor LeBron  :lol

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1033 on: June 02, 2018, 11:34:31 PM »
Random thoughts from a former NBA fan who lost interest around the time the weasel Howard Schultz sold the Sonics to the first person who came along with a checkbook when the city didn't grace him with a new arena, knowing full well the buyers had no intention of keeping the team in Seattle, and the worm David Stern told Seattle to kiss their team goodbye when we didn't greet him with a red carpet and waving palm fronds when he came here demanding a new arena:

OKC isn't winning the finals, so I can't be bothered with who does. I am happy.

Draymond Green and players like him is why fans are losing interest in pro sports.

These JR Smith memes are amazing. And that's coming from a guy who generally hates when something gets meme'd.

JR Smith has a future in politics "After thinking about it a lot after the last 24 hours and however long it's been since the game was over, I can't say I was sure of anything at that point," Smith said. "I might have said that, I'm not for sure, but I might have."

People say Jordan would never have lost a game like this. Then they say Jordan never played with teammates who would have let it happen.

Pro sports are getting too fast and for refs to officiate properly. I don't know what the solution is.
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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1034 on: June 03, 2018, 06:30:21 AM »
Pro sports are getting too fast and for refs to officiate properly. I don't know what the solution is.

Yeah, this is a real issue. In hockey too.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1035 on: June 03, 2018, 07:12:13 AM »
Basketball is a tough sport to officiate. I definitely acknowledge that.

My beef with the block call the other day was the way it was handled.  First, it is absurd that a judgment call can be reviewed and changed.  A judgment is made on the fly in real time, and something should only be changed on review if it is definitive (not still a judgment).  And the only way a foul like that can be reviewed in the NBA is if they are looking to see if the defender was in the restricted area, which was their excuse.  The refs had no balls.  James was like two feet out of the restricted area, so there was no need to review that, but one ref called it a block one and one ref (the one closest to the play) called it a charge, and instead of talking it out on the court, they used the restricted area loophole as an excuse to review the block/charge and determine then what they were going to call. 

That is a tough call to make in real time, for sure, but they get paid to make those tough calls.  Make the call instead of being gutless and using a loophole to review something that cannot be reviewed on its own.

As for the "Jordan wouldn't have lost that game" or nonsense like that, at this point I assume anyone who says stuff like that is a troll or someone who doesn't want to talk the GOAT issue, so they throw out a quick hit-and-run comment (like, "Jordan is better than James because 6 > 3") instead of having a nuanced conversation about it.  Gotta love the internet.  :lol :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1036 on: June 03, 2018, 07:26:17 AM »
When Jordan had those teams like Lebron does now he didn't make the finals.  Though the other teams in the east were stronger all around in the Jordan era.
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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1037 on: June 03, 2018, 07:28:22 AM »


As for the "Jordan wouldn't have lost that game" or nonsense like that, at this point I assume anyone who says stuff like that is a troll or someone who doesn't want to talk the GOAT issue, so they throw out a quick hit-and-run comment (like, "Jordan is better than James because 6 > 3") instead of having a nuanced conversation about it.  Gotta love the internet.  :lol :lol

Yup, like saying Montana is undefeated in the SB except that he went to half as many as Brady.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1038 on: June 03, 2018, 07:39:40 AM »
When Jordan had those teams like Lebron does now he didn't make the finals.  Though the other teams in the east were stronger all around in the Jordan era.

Yep. Heck, Bill Russell won 11 rings, but no one calls him the GOAT.  Rings matter, but they aren't everything.  Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are two of best 15 players I ever saw play, and neither won a ring.

Since I have been watching the NBA (mid 80's), Jordan and James have the longest tenures (by far) are being the best player.

Bird was the best player when I first started watching around 1984-1985.
Magic took the batton briefly before Jordan grabbed it in the late 80's and held on to it before retiring in 1993.
Hakeem was probably the best player for the next years before Jordan came back and took it back until he retired again in 1998.
Then, Shaq was the best player for probably 4-5 seasons.
Once Shaq got took fat(ter), Duncan took over as the best player and stayed it until probably 2007-2008 when LeBron took the title and has pretty much held it since (regardless of the fact that voters give the MVP award to someone else more often than not).
And right now, the gap between LeBron and the 2nd best player (most say Durant, but I would still argue that Curry is better and more valuable) is still massive.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1039 on: June 03, 2018, 11:41:32 AM »
In my opinion, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are discussed with the least nuance of any basketball players. Jordan is almost always deified to a ridiculous degree, whereas Kobe is either way overrated or underrated.

Regarding Jordan, here are some fun facts I've learned over the years that are rarely discussed in the mainstream:
  • Before Scottie Pippen joined the Bulls, they were only 1-9 in the playoffs with Jordan
  • Like all other players, Jordan had bad games from time to time. For example, he shot 4/8 in a loss to the Pistons in 1989
  • The Bulls were stacked on stacked for most of the 90s. In the season after Jordan's first retirement, they replaced him with Toni Kukoc and still won 55 games
  • Jordan had some rough Finals performances too. In 1996, he shot 42% in a series where Shawn Kemp was the best player statistically

I want to be clear that Jordan was freaking amazing, and that every bullet point I mentioned above isn't really that significant in the grand scheme of things. All I'm saying is that Jordan was amazing in a human way. The Bulls may have been 6-0 in the Finals with him at the helm, but that doesn't mean he, as an individual player, was perfect. It really annoys me when people nitpick guys like Stephen Curry or Chris Paul but treat the players of yesteryear with kid gloves. :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1040 on: June 03, 2018, 12:41:51 PM »
Players of years past always get romanticized as if they never made mistakes and were these perfect players. The same will happen in 10-20 years with the current greats of the sport.  It's just the way it goes.

I tend to always like the less selfish players, which is probably why I never liked Jordan, Iverson and Bryant, and do not like current selfish stars like Westbook and Anthony.  That could stem from my huge fandom of the Bad Boy Pistons, who went 9 deep in 1989 and were a very unselfish team dedicated to winning (by doing whatever they had to do :lol).  Players who play hero ball make me yawn.




Offline jammindude

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1041 on: June 03, 2018, 02:44:46 PM »
I saw a newer fan arguing that he had watched an older game (Magic Johnson era) where the game was "too tight" and how players today were so much "more advanced" that they would run circles around the older guys. 

I pointed out (I think factually) that the games are called much more "loose" these days.   Lane violations, 3-second violations, "palming"....and many other rules used to be enforced a lot more.   He of course countered that the game was better for not calling these things because who wants to see 80 free throws per game.   

That argument blew my mind because it never occurred to this guy that the old guys didn't have to shoot 80 free throws *because they followed the rules*!!!   

I don't think a more disciplined game equates to the game becoming "more advanced"....in fact, I'd say it was a step backwards, not forwards.   

Newer players would have an extremely difficult time playing ball in the 80s because they would be getting constantly called on their lack of disciplined play.   
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1042 on: June 03, 2018, 08:13:41 PM »
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1043 on: June 03, 2018, 08:16:10 PM »
Poor LeBron... Curry fouled him during that fast break in the 3rd qtr and the refs didn't call that...
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1044 on: June 04, 2018, 05:19:06 AM »
I always rooted against LeBron when he was a Heat. Now, I can't help but root for him against this stupid....err super team. Funny how things change.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1045 on: June 04, 2018, 06:15:48 AM »
I’m the opposite. Can’t stand LeBron, no matter of a great player he is. Rubs me the wrong way.


And right now, the gap between LeBron and the 2nd best player (KAWHI LEONARD) is closing


Fixed  :xbones


Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1046 on: June 04, 2018, 06:36:32 AM »
Haha, look who has jokes early on a Monday! :lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1047 on: June 04, 2018, 09:28:12 AM »
I want to say AGAIN with respect to last night's game that Steph's defense was SOLID.  Even when switched onto LeBron, he was lights out (as much as anyone possibly can be "lights out" when defending LeBron).  As with game 1, he didn't do it all himself.  He held his own individually, but also knew where his help would come from, and regularly pressured LeBron to the help side, often resulting in passes or missed shots.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 10:27:18 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1048 on: June 04, 2018, 10:22:24 AM »
Steph is incredible. I actually have a buddy who used to play pickup basketball with him over in Charlotte, and believe it or not, he wasn't very good in high school. Now he is probably the scariest offensive player on Earth. When the Warriors inevitably win, I would love to see him get the Finals MVP because he is their engine, heart, and soul.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1049 on: June 04, 2018, 10:25:52 AM »
I would love to see him get it as well.  I think he is truly deserving.  And I also strongly dislike the narrative about some in the NBA that he isn't a "real" basketball player.  That alone makes me really want him to get that to put alongside his championship rings and regular season MVP trophy.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."