The Queensrÿche Discography Thread

[bl5150]

  and I seem to remember they were excited about his comment to the effect of "putting the ass back in our music."   

That just strikes me as funny. As in, no kidding!

  


Michael Wilton (2013) - "so God.........that prayer back in '99 about making our albums sound like ass  - I think you misunderstood"

[bosk1]

They were really talking up the new guitar player, and I seem to remember they were excited about his comment to the effect of "putting the ass back in our music."  Should have raised a red flag for me, but I was inclined to think it meant they were going to go back in a harder direction after HITNF. 

Yeah, I remember that now too.

[Samsara]

That quote regarding "putting the ass back in the music" wasn't Kelly Gray. We remember it as such, but it was actually Brother Cane (now Black Star Riders) guitarist Damon Johnson, commenting on Q2k. Kelly answers that himself in my old Q&A, which will be available as  link in the next write-up.

[Lowdz]

You could argue that the split with Tate was taking the ass out of their music 😀

[bosk1]

I'll just add that I did my obligatory listen to Q2K this morning, including cranking Howl in the car on the way in to work this morning in order to give it one more "fair shot" at suitably ludicrous volume.  I did notice that there is some cool chord picking going on behind the vocal during part of the verses that I hadn't noticed before.  But overall, the song still doesn't do it for me, and I would rank it in the bottom tier of songs from the album. 

I come back to:  It's not an album that I hate.  It's a decent album with some good moments.  But it what I had come to love and expect from Queensryche.  And despite music having taken a turn that I didn't care for at all during this time period, there were some other releases from bands during this timeframe that were so far above anything that this album had to offer that it is easy to understand it falling by the wayside.

Another thing I noticed.  This is the first album where Geoff's voice is starting to sound thin, nasally, and throaty at times.  I didn't pick up on it at the time, but it is there. 

[romdrums]

Another thing I noticed.  This is the first album where Geoff's voice is starting to sound thin, nasally, and throaty at times.  I didn't pick up on it at the time, but it is there.

This is also the first album where I can start to hear some strain in his voice.  It was maybe there a little bit on HITNF, but it really starts to creep in on this record.

[Samsara]

If I may provide a different perspective (not saying it is right, just another angle), this is also the first time Kelly Gray worked with Geoff on his vocals for an album release. And as you'll come to read in the Q&A I did with Kelly in 2001 (coming next write-up), you'll see he and Chris very much differed on how they approached vocals. Long story short -- Chris was involved with making suggestions and trying different things with vocals in an effort to get them as high quality as possible, whereas Kelly was hands-off.

One last thing from me regarding Q2k itself (unless someone asks a question, I'll bow out until Monday). If the name "Queensryche" wasn't on it, would it have piqued your interest? It's hard to be that objective, particularly in retrospect. But think about it. Or, put another way from my wife - "If this was the first music you heard from the band, would you want to hear more?"

For me, personally, the answer on Q2k was yes. I was very much interested in the direction they elected to take, and wanted a second record with Gray, even if he was a bad choice on stage, because he wouldn't (or couldn't) play Chris' parts correctly.

The difficulty, however, is that Queensryche painted itself into a corner. By changing their sound a bit from record to record, they opened a lot of artistic doors. But when they got to HITNF, they pushed it open way too far, losing people. And with Q2k, instead of making what I would personally consider the wiser move for their careers, and returning to a more classic sound (ala Empire, lets say), instead they decided to just hand the reins over to Kelly more or less, and pretty much give the middle finger to the back catalog, launching a "NEW" (NU) Queensryche.

It was ballsy, it was risky, and on some level, it was commendable. But (and it's a really big but), they underestimated the fan base's intelligence and impact, thinking they'd just follow along like sheep. Some did, including myself (I had no idea that Chris was the main driver of the band at the time, sonically). But others, who at the time knew more, or simply just saw the name, and associated it with a different sound, spoke with their wallets. Instead, had the band gotten a guy more in Chris' vein and style, and returned to a more familiar sonic area (think Empire with perhaps a bit more crunch), Queensryche might have ridden out the wave a bit and not buried themselves for the next few years. A ton of what ifs in that, but it is what it is.

But again, for me personally, I think Kelly Gray gets a bad rap. No, he's not as good a songwriter or guitarist (IMO) as DeGarmo. And his style was completely different than Chris'. However, Gray can certainly play, and he's written some damn good songs with Queensryche, Brother Cane, and Slave to the System. But they are dismissed because, primarily, he was expected to play like Chris, or at least play really clean. But that isn't him.

Returning to Q2k itself, as a guy on my old forum (I believe it was "gaguy") always said, there's this earthy, real tone to Q2k that was appealing, and still is (at least to me). Had Atlantic Records truly put the financial muscle and might behind Queensryche and the Q2k album the way I am assuming they told the band they would, I feel it would have done a lot better, and appealed (as it did to my law school roommate who couldn't believe it was Queensryche and liked the record a lot) to the modern hard rock audience. But given QR's age, and the name associating them with a different era, Atlantic didn't go full-on, particularly once "Breakdown" fell down the chart. But there was, IMO, a lot of potential, had the band been a "new" band no one had heard of.

Instead, because it didn't sound like "Queensryche" it got dismissed. And had it sounded like Queensryche, it probably still would have been dismissed, because of the stigma of the 80s. The band really was in a no-win situation in 1999 using the band name. But it was something they (I assume) HAD to do, because it carried weight in the industry, whereas a new band name would not have.

And to be honest, naming-wise, while Chris was indeed the glue, and with Tate the primary engine of the band, I wouldn't have expected Queensryche to not use the band name. It wasn't "Chris'" band -- it was all of theirs.

Anyway, I got to rambling off the top of my head. Simply put, for me, a sequel to Q2k, with that lineup, and expectations of growth JUST based on that record, not the seven albums before it, may have yielded something good. It was a shame (IMO) that we never got it.

[Lowdz]

Would it have piqued my interest? No. Not in a million years. I was no fan of the no metal or the grunge sound.
I do however not hate Q2k.

[bosk1]

One last thing from me regarding Q2k itself (unless someone asks a question, I'll bow out until Monday). If the name "Queensryche" wasn't on it, would it have piqued your interest? It's hard to be that objective, particularly in retrospect. But think about it. Or, put another way from my wife - "If this was the first music you heard from the band, would you want to hear more?"

Yeah, I feel similarly to Lowdz.  For me, the answer is unequivocally "no."  I wasn't a fan of this type of rock.  And to me, while this is a decent album, there are plenty of bands during this timeframe that were doing that sound better.  And that is ultimately why I don't return to the album.  Other than a couple of songs, I'm just not a fan of it, no matter the name on the front cover.

I was very much interested in the direction they elected to take, and wanted a second record with Gray, even if he was a bad choice on stage, because he wouldn't (or couldn't) play Chris' parts correctly.

...

But again, for me personally, I think Kelly Gray gets a bad rap. No, he's not as good a songwriter or guitarist (IMO) as DeGarmo. And his style was completely different than Chris'. However, Gray can certainly play, and he's written some damn good songs with Queensryche, Brother Cane, and Slave to the System. But they are dismissed because, primarily, he was expected to play like Chris, or at least play really clean. But that isn't him.

These two ideas sort of blend together.  I would have been okay with another album with Kelly.  Q2K certainly wasn't all bad.  And they hadn't yet gelled even remotely when they were writing the tunes for it.  I would have absolutely been curious to see what another go-around would have produced. 

I also agree that Kelly unfairly gets a bad rap.  I'm a LOT more forgiving of his live playing than most, and I didn't really have a problem with what I heard in that regard.  But since my only experience with his playing from this era is from Live Evolution, I'll hold off until we get to that...

[Kwyjibo]

Back then when I heard the news that Chris was leaving I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I was torn because on one side he was responsible for a lot of classic QR tunes but on the other hand he was also mainly responsible for the HITNF direction which I really did not like. But I was glad that QR decided to carry on.

I really liked Q2K and thought that, if it wasn’t a true return to form, it was at least a decent enough effort and a step in the right direction. I know I’m in the minority but I find it certainly much better than HITNF and sometimes would put it even higher than Promised Land. And for me it is still miles ahead of everything that came after till the Todd LaTorre fronted records. And yes, I would have liked for them to carry on in this direction and maybe try to improve on Q2K. For me that would have certainly been better than the snooze fest that is Tribe.

Falling Down, Sacred Ground, When The Rain Comes, The Right Side Of My Mind are my favorites, but after starting strong the record loses a bit in the second half. Like Samsara mentioned some good ideas but not executed well for whole songs.

The lyrics in Sacred Ground never really bothered me. Growing up and liking a lot of hair metal bands I was used to similar and even worse lyrics (David Coverdale I’m looking in your direction ).

I find it interesting that every band member is credited with the songs, it seemed like a real band effort in writing and therefore a change from the previous records, but I always doubted that they all wrote everything together. The above posted credits make more sense.

I knew of Tate’s short liaison with Journey, he even has a co-writing credit for Walking Away From The Edge from Red 13. And while Tate in Journey is an interesting thought, I don’t think this could have worked for a longer term. He had the range for sure to sing the old Steve Perry material but I always thought that Schon/Cain and Tate were in completely different musical spheres.

[Cruithne]

One last thing from me regarding Q2k itself (unless someone asks a question, I'll bow out until Monday). If the name "Queensryche" wasn't on it, would it have piqued your interest? It's hard to be that objective, particularly in retrospect. But think about it. Or, put another way from my wife - "If this was the first music you heard from the band, would you want to hear more?"

No.

[TAC]

There is no way that if I heard Q2K first, I would've ever given this band another look.

[ReaperKK]

Great write-up and posts guys. I don't have anything to add but I am going to give this album a listen when I'm traveling today.

[bosk1]

I really liked Q2K and thought that, if it wasn’t a true return to form, it was at least a decent enough effort and a step in the right direction. I know I’m in the minority but I find it certainly much better than HITNF and sometimes would put it even higher than Promised Land.

Wow, that certainly IS a minority opinion.  But, hey, cool that you liked it.  For me, I would put it WAY down at the bottom, above only D2C (I'm not counting the covers album, because who counts those?).

[Kwyjibo]

It probably helped that I liked (and still like) some of the grunge and nu metal bands. Not saying that Q2K is one of those, but there are similarities, especially the sound of the record. And it was more lively and rocking than the previous two. It's not a classic, not by a long shot, but listening to it recently I still like it better than the rest of the Tateryche stuff.

And to this day I have never heard the covers record and D2C, and I'm not planning to change that soon, as long as Samsara isn't convincing me otherwise in the upcoming writeups to those.

[bosk1]

I'll hold off on saying more until we get there, but the covers record DOES have some cool moments.  The arrangement and heavy vibe of Welcome To the Machine is really cool, and makes the song dark, heavy, and gritty.  Neon Knights is really cool.  And there are some other neat moments.  It's worth a listen one time.  Maybe find it one YouTube or some other online source and listen once when Samsara gets to that point in the thread, just for reference.  With maybe one or two RARE exceptions, I just don't find covers albums all that compelling.  And this one is pretty weak overall.  But it deserves a listen at least.

But back to Q2K, I really like your comment that "It probably helped that I liked (and still like) some of the grunge and nu metal bands. Not saying that Q2K is one of those, but there are similarities, especially the sound of the record."  It goes back to what I said earlier that the band had a unique knack early on for reflecting a given aspect of the music scene at any given time, without BEING that particular subgenre, if that makes sense.  I think they still had that, to an extent, through Tribe.  And I think it is back now in the LaTorre era of the band as well.  I think they lost that in the post-Tribe Tateryche era.  But I think the reason why is because Geoff and outside writers were doing everything, and a lot of that revolved around the band really having somewhat of an identity crisis in terms of their sound, with Tate pulling the band way over to his own influences, but also trying to recapture enough of the "classic QR sound" to keep the fans happy.  But Q2K definitely has that aspect, and that's cool, even if it may have taken the band in a direction I personally didn't care for at the time.

[Setlist Scotty]

Back then when I heard the news that Chris was leaving I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I was torn because on one side he was responsible for a lot of classic QR tunes but on the other hand he was also mainly responsible for the HITNF direction which I really did not like. But I was glad that QR decided to carry on.

I think this sums up my feelings at the time. I really wasn't super sad that CDG had left QR back then, largely because his name was all over the writing credits for the last 2 albums, and HitNF was particularly disappointing to me. So getting someone new in the lineup would hopefully get them back on track to where they were previously, or so I hoped. I vaguely remember some different names being tossed around as to who the new guitarist would be, and I too remember seeing photos of "the new guy" but with his face completely obscured on purpose. I don't remember feeling strongly one way or the other when Kelly was finally announced as the new guitarist since I didn't have a reference point for what he'd bring to the table.

When Q2K was announced, I thought the name sounded stupid, riding on the hype of "Y2K" but whatever. When the album was released, I really liked the cover art (and still do) - definitely better, IMO, than several other album covers they had. But unfortunately, the music didn't measure up to my liking the cover art. I won't waste time going on a track by track, but just say that I hold it pretty much at the same level as HitNF, maybe just a smidge above HitNF. Several of the songs are meh, and the only 2 tracks that stand out to me are the obvious: RSoMM and Liquid Sky. There are a handful of others that are decent enough (Sacred Ground aside from the lyrics, How Could I, Burning Man altho annoyingly repetitive and Wot Kinda Man). For the life of me, I cannot understand the appeal of Breakdown. That song does absolutely nothing for me.

I ended up catching 4 of the shows on the initial tour - caught both Vegas shows (Brian, I think I met you at the first show as I recall meeting someone from NY a few seats away - will have to check my ticket stubs) plus LA and San Diego. Big reason why I did so is because I remember some talk about them mixing things up setlist-wise from show to show. And they did for the 2 Vegas shows. The LA and San Diego show ended up with the same setlist, but whatever. Funny - I recall at one of the Vegas shows, Tate announcing they were hesitant to perform the next song since CDG wasn't with them (I don't remember the wording, but he didn't mention him by name) before going into Silent Lucidity, which gained a lot of cheers when they started playing it. First Vegas show didn't have an encore and left everyone wondering if they would come back out (they didn't), but we got a much longer show the following night. Another thing I remember too is Kelly leaving his guitar on with distortion ringing out of the PA when walking off the stage - seemed kinda cool at the time, but in hindsight was more lame than anything else.

After the San Diego show, I remember attending the aftershow meet'n'greet. I distinctly remember chatting with Scott and our conversation included asking him if he had met Neil Peart (he had) and giving him a copy of the newly released Scenes From a Memory (I think he had heard of DT, but don't remember how familiar he said he was with them). Apparently, not many fans were interested in engaging Kelly in much conversation, so I remember him announcing his goodbyes to everyone much earlier than the other 4 guys. Poor Kelly. 

They were really talking up the new guitar player, and I seem to remember they were excited about his comment to the effect of "putting the ass back in our music."  Should have raised a red flag for me, but I was inclined to think it meant they were going to go back in a harder direction after HITNF. 

Yeah, I remember that now too.

Ditto. Didn't realize it wasn't Kelly Gray, but I do remember the quote well.

Also, I too never knew the info about Tate trying out and being considered as vocalist for Journey. Can't imagine what that would've been like had they chosen him.

[King Postwhore]

Scotty, we found out though the 2000's how important Chris was to the band.   With each purchase including Q2K I barely played them after the initial listening. ( a few weeks of listening).

[Setlist Scotty]

Scotty, we found out though the 2000's how important Chris was to the band.   With each purchase including Q2K I barely played them after the initial listening. ( a few weeks of listening).

I fully agree - I was just posting what my thoughts were when the lineup change happened, not looking back in hindsight.

[King Postwhore]

Yup, yup.  Absolutely.   

[Kwyjibo]

When the album was released, I really liked the cover art (and still do) - definitely better, IMO, than several other album covers they had.

This, they have a lot of cover art that I think isn't that great but they nailed it with Q2K. And I don't have a problem with the name, sure it's derived from the Y2K thing, but I found it kinda fitting, because like starting a new millennium, QR started a new phase of their career with Chris gone and Gray on board.

Scotty, we found out though the 2000's how important Chris was to the band.   With each purchase including Q2K I barely played them after the initial listening. ( a few weeks of listening).

Obviously Chris was more than just a guitarist and songwriter, he was a very large part of what made the classic records so classic. And it is also obvious that no one wanted to pick up the reins after he left. No one (apart from Tate) wanted to take responsibility, no one had a vision or an idea where this band could go and that led to Tate taking over and the other guys just going along.

But at the time I didn't know that, nor did I know what was to come in the following years. And I'm still not sure that if Chris had stayed they would have gone back to former glory. I thought back then (and I'm still not really convinced otherwise) that he had lost (or used up) the creativity of the first records.

[Mladen]

I've been pretty busy over the last week and I've only given Q2K two listens so far. First impressions - Liquid sky and the closer are quite awesome. I'll keep spinning it over the next several days.

[Samsara]

Greatest Hits (2000)



After the support tour for Q2k concluded, Virgin/Capitol, which absorbed the assets of EMI as its parent company, released Queensryche's first-ever Greatest Hits album, consisting of tracks from the EP through Hear in the Now Frontier.

The release consisted of various singles Queensryche released through 1997, plus “Chasing Blue Sky” and the full band version of “Someone Else?” If memory serves, when asked by media why the band selected the tracks they did, Tate explained while he and the band had input, they couldn't all agree on what tracks to include, and simply went with the major singles from the record.

The artwork was done by Hugh Syme.

Touring

The timing of releasing Queensryche's Greatest Hits compilation was fortuitous, as they were selected by Iron Maiden to be the primary support band on that band's tour promoting Brave New World in 2000. Halford would provide support before Queensryche.

Note: This was the point in time that there was some angst between Dream Theater's Mike Portnoy and Queensryche. Apparently Dream Theater was offered the same slot to support Maiden, and turned it down, because they had allegedly reached an agreement to co-headline a tour with Queensryche. As the story goes, allegedly Queensryche pulled out of the co-headline jaunt with Dream Theater to take the Maiden gig, which made Portnoy a little salty... (thanks to bosk1 for the reminder on this one).

The trek with Iron Maiden, which lasted through early 2001, culminating with a Jan. 9, 2001 performance at Foro Sol in Mexico City (assuming it was a warm-up for the filming of Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio concert and live album release), re-exposed Queensryche to a large audience of heavy metal fans, which helped the band continue forward after another unsuccessful album sales cycle with Q2k. Queensryche received just under an hour to perform, and tailored the set to the metal crowd, performing “Queen of the Reich” and other heavier tunes.

Once the tour concluded, the band announced another fan club show, this time dubbed S2k1 on June 2, 2001. And as an added bonus, Tate would be performing his first-ever solo concert the night before at The Catwalk in Seattle. The five months in-between, however, were spent on side projects (more on those later) and negotiating a new label and manager for Queensryche.

S2k1 and Signing with Sanctuary Records

Come June 1, Queensryche fans descended upon Seattle for the band's second fan club-only show (dubbed S2k1) on June 2. Before that, however, Tate debuted new solo album material he had been working on with a new band at show on June 1, at The Catwalk club. The setlist contained some never-before played gems (“Hero” and “spOOL”) from Queensryche, and some rarities such as Queensryche's cover of “Gonna Get Close to You,” along with various solo cuts being performed for the first time.

The next day, Queensryche played The Showbox, marking their first show in five months, and a special setlist that included “Suite Sister Mary” with Pamela Moore, “En Force,” and “No Sanctuary” from The Warning. The show was filmed for an online broadcast later on, and if memory serves, Tate announced the band had signed with Sanctuary Records. The gig was fun and the performance by Tate and the band was solid.

It was during this weekend that I was fortunate enough to interview Kelly Gray, along with his guitar tech and Slave to the System bandmate, Scott Heard. Kelly had a number of things to say, including that the band at that point had about 10 song ideas for the follow-up to Q2k. He spoke of Q2k as a good record, but clearly felt they could do better. Kelly also shared his feelings at the time on Dream Theater. For brevity's sake, I won't cut and paste it here on DTF, but you can check out an abridged version of it here:

https://www.anybodylistening.net/images/kellygray-2001interview.pdf

Long story short, Kelly had some pointed things to say regarding Dream Theater's Scenes from a Memory and how it "borrowed" some ideas from Operation: Mindcrime.

Live Evolution (2001)




Lead vocals – Geoff Tate
Lead & rhythm guitars, background vocals – Kelly Gray
Lead & rhythm guitars – Michael Wilton
Bass & background vocals – Eddie Jackson
Drums – Scott Rockenfield

Cover art - Rory Berger

Shortly after the S2k1 fan club event, Queensryche announced that it would play two nights at the Moore Theater in Seattle for the recording of what would become Live Evolution, a 2 CD/1 DVD set showcasing the band's history up to that point. The two-night affair was marketed to fans as two completely different sets, setting the stage for a historic performance for Queensryche. They also announced a new manager, Lars Sorenson, who would eventually end up co-managing the band with Susan Tate, Geoff's wife.

Recorded on July 27-28, there were unfortunately problems from the get-go. The primary error was an issue with the audio portion of the recording. Some of it was usable, some was not. This meant that the band would have to re-record in-studio, or rely on the second night. On top of that, unlike how the shows were promoted, only one-half of the second show was different than the first night. Whether that was what was planned, or a result of the sound issues from the first night's recording remains a mystery – as is what actually happened with the sound.

Ultimately, Live Evolution was released just two months later on Sept. 25, and was notable (at the time) for its superb picture quality. The DVD (20 tracks) did not feature all the songs included on the 2 CD set (30 tracks), however. The audio problems are notable on the CDs, as Tate is featured as saying “let's go!” right before “Spreading the Disease,” which from what fans who attended noted, was a long delay on stage.

Despite the difficulties, Live Evolution was well received in the media, and featured Queensryche's history in “suites” of songs – truly showcasing how the band evolved from era to era. Rarely played cuts such as “London” made an appearance, and Pamela Moore reprises her role as Sister Mary in “Suite Sister Mary.” Generally speaking, fan reaction to Live Evolution was positive, although Gray's guitar playing and over reliance on the wah pedal was viewed as “jarring” and “out of place” by many fans at the time.

Queensryche embarked on a short tour of the United States to promote Live Evolution following its release. The gigs were set up similar to the DVD, with songs being performed in “suites.” Something was clearly amiss with the band, however. Promoted as “An Evening with Queensryche,” and having no opener, fans expected a lengthy set. Unfortunately, Queensryche instead played for 90-100 minutes most nights.

Note: 9/11 created some travel issues for Queensryche. They were booked to appear in Japan for the first time in years to kick-off the Live Evolution tour. However, due to security concerns, the band did not fly to Japan. Doing so would come back to haunt them in a few years and allegedly was a factor in making a future record. We'll get to why when we get to discussing the end part of Queensryche's next album support tour...

Going back to the Live Evolution tour, at the last show on Nov. 21, 2001, at the Beacon Theater in New York City, none of the band members interacted with each other. They showed up, Stood on stage, played, and after the last notes, Tate, Wilton, and Jackson left the stage without a bow, leaving Rockenfield and Gray together, who took the applause together. This would be Kelly Gray's final performance as a member of Queensryche (until he joined up with Tate in 2012 for Tate's version of the band – we'll get to that later), and puts a bow on the Q2k era of the band.

Next-up: Side Projects & Band Dysfunction (2002)

Scheduling note -- The next entry will be fairly short, and will be posted later this week, before getting to Tribe (which will be lengthier) next week.

[Samsara]

Some comments on this period from me:

As I have said previously, I'm a fan of this era of the band. I enjoyed Q2k, and while Kelly Gray's live playing left something to be desired, I embraced the band wholeheartedly at this point. Overall, from my first show on the Q2k tour (Oct. 29, 1999) to the last show of the Live Evolution tour (Nov. 21, 2001), I saw this era of the band 11 times, and had some outstanding memories.

Seeing the renewed energy at Seattle '99 was a huge high point that I'll never forget. You could feel the electricity in the air for that hour-long gig. The Q2k tour was a ton of fun, and a setlist relying on Mindcrime and Q2k was energetic. S2k1 was...really special. Not only did Tate make his solo live debut (it was a great show -- he actually sang with fangs in his mouth for "Gonna Get Close to You - ha ha), but Queensryche pulling out No Sanctuary and En Force was incredible. In fact, I don't think they've played No Sanctuary since. If they did, it was only one, and not since 2001.

The interview with Kelly Gray was a bit surreal. He and Scott Heard picked me up at my hotel, and we went down to the Frontier Room in Seattle. Simply put -- Kelly couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating. I offered to buy a few rounds, he passed. Didn't drink a drop. Answered each of my questions (the interview you can click on above is abridged, there is a whole section that is on side project stuff that didn't make sense to re-upload), and didn't duck anything...which says a lot.

I know folks may have some angst about some of his comments, and I look forward to seeing them. Hard to believe that interview was done more than 16 years ago now...

Regarding the Live Evolution Tour -- I was at the final two shows: Boston and New York City. Honestly, that NYC show was one of the most disappointing and awkward moments I have ever had as a fan (with the witnessing of the collapse of Nevermore being another). There was little interaction among the band all night long, and that walk-off without saying anything was just plain weird. The show was ridiculously short too.

I remember walking out of there thinking we may have seen the final show of the band. That wouldn't be the case of course, but the negative energy was high. If memory serves, I think people booed them as well, after realizing they were done for the evening after only 90 minutes (the tickets, for the time period, were expensive -- like $60 bucks -- need to check my stub).

Just a very strange time and completely opposite of the vibe I got from them in June 2001, five months prior.

[Mosh]

My first reaction to Scenes was that it sounded a lot like Mindcrime, at least at first. After the initial three track run the album takes a different direction. There are other little similarities (mostly in structure) but overall to say they were just repeating what Queensryche did is really inaccurate. Probably goes without saying on this forum though.

I'll check out the live album later.

[devieira73]

Great review Samsara, as always! Just for information, I guess Queensryche only played on Rock in Rio in 1991. I was on the IM show at Rock in Rio show in 2001 and I'm 99.9% sure that Queensryche didn't play that night.

[Samsara]

Great review Samsara, as always! Just for information, I guess Queensryche only played on Rock in Rio in 1991. I was on the IM show at Rock in Rio show in 2001 and I'm 99.9% sure that Queensryche didn't play that night.

You're right! It was Jan. 9, 2001 at the Foro Sol in Mexico City. That was the show I was thinking of. I'll adjust the write-up. Thank you!

I have all the non-original lineup tour dates and gig pages through 2005 saved locally, but not online!

[Grappler]

I missed the Maiden BNW tour, sadly.  I was in college and I think it may have been a weeknight show in Chicago.  To see QR, Halford (touring on the godly Resurrection album) and Maiden on the first full tour for a new record after their reunion, would have been incredible.  All 3 bands were performing incredibly as well.  I have a few QR and Maiden bootlegs from that tour (QR MSG/Maine and Maiden in Maine) that are multi-cam and look and sound so great.

One thing I disliked is that QR would tailor their sets when they'd open for Priest or Maiden.  Play those songs regularly, rotate some in and out.  Don't just play the metal songs when you're opening for a metal band.  I do like that they had a good mix for that 45 minute set.  Queen of the Reich, a few hits, a few new songs.

I loved Live Evolution at the time.  Great picture quality, though I wish they had all of the songs included.  If I remember right, the band may have had a choice of including all of the songs by sacrificing picture and sound quality.  I used to watch that dvd all of the time.  The Greatest Hits record was nice - it was remastered, so we had good sounding version of some of the older songs.  The artwork is awesome.  Not much else to say really,

I saw the Live Evolution tour in Chicago, and thankfully, it was the first of 2 or 3 nights.  QR had a tendency to "change" the setlist by playing or not playing ONE additional song on those multi-night stands in a city.  I attended the night where they closed the show with Queen of the Reich - I finally got to see them play it and hear Geoff sing it.  That was such a cool setlist, with the show staged in suites. 

Loved this era of the band and still do - I have great memories of seeing them a handful of times when they toured for Q2K.

[bosk1]

For me, the Greatest Hits album and Live Evolution are inextricably tied together, so great to see the post encompass both of them. 

The timing of these two albums was pretty interesting for me personally.  I graduated law school in the spring of 2001.  Those who haven't gone to law school (which would be most of you) wouldn't necessarily know what commonly happens next.  In most school programs, once you graduate, you leave and go off to wherever "home" will be to start your career.  Not so for lawyers.  Although there are exceptions, most people stick around on campus to study all summer long with their classmates for the bar exam, which takes place at the end of the summer.  Basically, it is a few months of intense study and review for one of the most challenging exams in the American education system.  The study time typically consists of attending prep classes all day during the week, with practice examinations and further self-study all waking moments in between.  It is a stressful time, but one that can be a lot of fun as well. 

Thus, I found myself spending that summer in Malibu, California before moving back home.  I had been listening to the latest album, Q2K.  And while I didn't love, as noted above, I thought it was a decent album, and Queensryche were still one of my top bands.  I remember learning at some point during that summer that Queensryche were going to be filming/taping their upcoming Seattle shows for a live release.  Coincidentally, that was just a few days after I would finish the bar exam.  This is relevant because another thing that is common for law school graduates is taking a long overdue vacation after taking the bar exam and before starting the first full-time law job.  I can't remember exactly how the conversation went, but my wife suggested traveling to the Pacific Northwest.  This coincided perfectly with the Queensryche show, and she was onboard for going to one of the shows.  Related to that, I have one more tangent to go off on to set the stage...

An interesting thing about going to school in Malibu is the interesting and rather unique mix of students at Pepperdine.  I won't go too far afield and delve into the demographics of all of that.  But one unexpected product of that was an older woman that was in my class that I had gotten to know fairly well in my three years at school who was a long-time resident of Malibu and was VERY connected in the entertainment industry.  During that time, her husband was still a very big name in Hollywood.  She previously worked in the industry as well, and it turns out that law was her third or fourth career at that point.  Anyhow, one sunny afternoon during that summer, she overheard me talking to a friend of mine about how I was thinking about heading up to Oregon and Washington after the bar exam.  She came over and said that she and her husband had a "nice little place" up in Whistler, Canada, and that my wife and I were welcome to stay there for a few days if we wanted to.  Well, this "nice little place" turned out to be a huge 3-story house right on the lake in Whistler that was a good deal nicer than any place I had ever stayed on a vacation up to that point.  Yeah, needless to say, we took her up on the offer.  That was a fantastic trip for my wife and I that ended up morphing into:  visiting some friends in Portland, driving up to Seattle for some fun in that city, night 2 of the Live Evolution shows, driving up to spend 5 days or so (I don't remember specifically how long) at the house in Whistler, road-tripping across western Canada and staying in various bed-and-breakfasts along the way, camping in Banff, seeing Calgary, and doing a big loop back to Seattle before coming home. 

I give all of that background because it was such a cool time in my life, and Queensryche was the soundtrack to all of that.  I had picked up the Greatest Hits album not long before that, and I remember in particular having Jet City Woman blasting on the rental car stereo as we first came into Seattle at the start of the trip, as well as that album playing on the drive into Whistler.  For me personally, I had the bonus tracks from that album already since I owned the Japanese import of HITNF and whichever single the full band version of Someone Else? appeared on (I think it was Bridge).  But since HITNF was one of the CDs that was in my CD wallet that had been stolen from my car earlier that year, it was nice to reacquire that song as part of the purchase.  But basically, there wasn't anything new on it, and I picked it up just to be a completest as far as having everything from my second-favorite band.  As I said in a post above, I think the track selection, including the bonus tracks, was about as good as one could ask for.  While we could quibble all day about individual tracks and whether they could have picked a different song from a particular album, I think they did a good job of picking a good variety of solid songs. 

As for Live Evolution, I have mixed feelings.  The show itself was cool, and it was great to be there.  But it was very different.  Our friends from Portland drove up with us and had lunch with us down by the Wharf.  I remember having lunch at Red Robbin on the Wharf.  I don't remember why, but I was waiting outside for the others for a few minutes at one point, and this tall lanky dude comes strolling up to the restaurant in jeans and a Mindcrime jacket, with a crowd of similarly decked out folks.  I figured that, of course, they were there for the QR shows, so I went up and introduced myself and chatted for a few minutes.  Turned out that it was Fozzy, and he told me he did some work for the band, although I don't believe he got specific and I didn't know the name "Fozzy" at the time, so I didn't truly understand who he was until later. 

Later that day, we showed up at the Moore Theater for the show.  Anticipation was high.  I had learned that the prior evening featured a significant sampling of Mindcrime for the Mindcrime suite, and that tonight's show would likely not have any Mindcrime songs at all.  That was perfectly fine with me.  I had personally seen it in its entirety on the Building Empires tour, and I had watched/listened to Livecrime so many times that I just didn't feel like I needed to see many of those songs live at that stage, and I was happy to be getting something completely different.

We had seats in the balcony, and it was LOUD up there!  So much so that my wife took a break for a couple of songs halfway during Queensryche's set just to rest her ears.  Even the opening act, Second Coming, were really loud. 

The show itself was cool, but as noted above, different.  The band sounded pretty good.  The song selection was pretty good.  The stage was rather sparse, but felt classy and looked pretty stunning with the huge metallic tri-riches on either side of the drum kit, and the huge lighting arch.  The band's energy was good.  But it was somehow just kind of different, and I couldn't put my finger on why.  One thing that was different and odd that may have contributed to that was the fact that Geoff walked off stage at the end of almost every song and then walked back on at the beginning of the next.  That was apparently done for the cutting of the live clips for the DVD, but it was kinda weird in person.  It was also a bit strange just because, other than Geoff, each band member really seemed to almost exclusively stay in his own little space.  This was especially true of Wilton.  Although he was energetic, it was like somebody drew a little 10 foot circle, and he never, ever strayed outside of it.

The classics that were played were a nice treat.  Queen of the Ryche was good, even if it wasn't quite the original form.  The heavier, plodding, downtuned version of The Lady Wore Black sounded REALLY cool.  And London, a favorite of mine from Rage, was an unexpected treat.  The only disappointment with London was the vocals.  I didn't really appreciate that all the layering on the studio album made it impossible to pull off convincingly in a live setting, even with backing vocals being piped in.  And as badly as Geoff missed the notes on the part right after the solo, such a crucial climax of the song, I was certain they would patch that up in the studio before releasing the album--and VERY surprised when they didn't, especially given all the touch up that WAS done. 

As to that, it was very noticeable upon buying the release that there was a lot of work done on Live Evolution prior to its release.  Some of it was done live at the time, in terms of vocals, effects, and other tracks being piped in at the show itself.  Some of that was obvious at the shows, and some of it was only obvious afterward.  Even at the show, it was obvious at times that Geoff was lip synching parts, or that he was singing a harmony, while another Geoff being piped in over the P/A was singing the "lead" part.  And there are other things I remember from the show that ended up being different on the live release.  Another that sticks out in my mind was that part of Geoff's monolog during Empire was cut.  To this day, I have no idea why.  But I recently ran it by someone else who wasn't at this show, but saw them on the tour, just to make sure I wasn't misremembering.  He remembered Geoff saying the words during that song on the tour that I remember being said at the Live Evolution tour that were cut from the release.  Anyhow...

Overall, it was a good show, and I was glad to have made the trip.  One thing I haven't addressed yet that I feel obligated to touch on is Kelly's playing.  At the time, I was fine with Kelly being in the band.  He handled the new material well.  In particular, I remember Breakdown, Liquid Sky, and Burning Man really coming alive and sounding good at that show.  But I also liked his work on the older CDG-era material.  And I wasn't bothered at all that he didn't play Chris's solos note-for-note.  I defended him, and later Mike Stone, for putting their own spin on those.  I also liked his energy, notwithstanding that it led to a few unintentional comical moments onstage.  There was one song in particular that I recall.  I don't remember off the top of my head which song it was, but you should be able to spot it on the DVD from this description:  There is a point where Kelly is hunched over at the front of the state while playing, and a bunch of fans are reaching out to him and one pats him on the head while he is playing.  At the end of his solo, he hops backwards back to his spot, and it almost looks like he is losing his balance just as the camera cuts away to one of the other band members.  Well, he DOES lose his balance and comes within a hair of falling completely on his back before recovering at the last second.  I wish the camera hadn't jumped away so quickly!   

One other thing I remember from that show was Scott Ian from Anthrax running around the theater with a camera crew of his own, recording little snippets before and during the show.  At the time, he was hosting a show on MTV, and they recorded some segments from his show where he debuted a song or two from the show (they played Right Side, and I think they did one other one as well).  At one point, he was recording a segment a few feet away from us by our seats in the balcony. 

This was my only exposure to the band for this album/tour cycle.  It was different from what I had seen from them in the past.  This was clearly a different band now, and like many, I didn't understand or truly appreciate the differences until much later.  But it was a good show and rewarding experience.

[bosk1]

Oh, one more thing:  I mentioned a few changes in arrangement and/or tuning for some of the older songs.  They changed up the arrangement on some of the Mindcrime stuff a bit as well, and I think the effect was good.  I know hearing a suite can be jarring to some fans, but I urge you to give it a chance and try to listen with an open mind if you find yourself in that category.  I think that, for example, splitting Spreading the Disease with Requiem in between was a cool little touch for the live presentation of the suite, even if it is a bit odd in terms of flow of the actual story if you know what each song represents and how it actually fits into the story.

[Lowdz]

At this point QR were dying in my eyes. I didn't bother with the greatest hits. Live Evolution I did buy on DVD and enjoyed it. Not played it in over a decade though, should dig it out again.

I think I've got the cd too but may never have played it. I remember being a little disappointed that there weren't as many tracks on the DVD.

[Setlist Scotty]

For me, the GH didn't matter since I already had everything and the artwork (altho very cool, IMO) didn't warrant me buying the CD.

I did however go catch 2 of the shows in June 2000 - one of the LA shows, and the one in San Diego. Was nice to see them again, shaking up the setlist a little, although not clearly as much as I thought they did when looking at the setlists now. Nothing really stands out that much from these shows, aside from the fact that this marked the start of them playing clubs the same size (at that time) that DT did.

Then in September, I caught them at the San Diego show where they opened for Maiden (the only time I've ever seen Maiden or Halford solo). Great bill and QR definitely put on a great show. Given the bands they were playing with, they put together a concise, energetic and appropriate setlist that almost did completely away with the new material in favor of earlier material (PL and back).

I remember reading all about the shows at the Moore and wished I could've gone, but it didn't happen. Definitely was a bummer when the shows weren't completely different, but what can you do? I am glad at least that they included all the songs played at the two shows for Live Evolution. A good representation of the band at the time, though not the greatest live album ever. Never picked up the video version since I'm not a video guy and the release was shorter than the CD version. Biggest disappointment was London - love the song, but as someone else said, the backing vocals just don't work, when compared with the original studio recording.

The last show I saw of that era was the Anaheim gig in November 2001. It was very disappointing how short the setlist was given that it was an evening with gig. Not much that I recall from the show specifically, although I think the guys were pretty much going through the motions by that time. What I do remember specifically was bumping into Kelly before the gig. Being at the House of Blues, there's a restaurant and gift shop downstairs. I was heading to the restaurant, but saw Kelly casually looking at stuff in the gift shop and tried to say hello and a brief comment. Something was clearly not right since he pretty much ignored me and walked away. Of course, that would be the last time I would see him as a part of QR, but I didn't know it then.

I have to echo what Bosk said regarding Kelly's version of the guitar solos. I too don't expect someone else to play the song exactly the same, and like it when they put their own spin on it, within reason, which I thought Kelly did a decent job of for the most part. And I like that they rearranged things a bit too. The aforementioned Spreading the Disease/Requiem worked well, and I didn't mind the reworked intro to Revolution Calling, although I missed Anarchy X.

[sfam2112]

One other thing I remember from that show was Scott Ian from Anthrax running around the theater with a camera crew of his own, recording little snippets before and during the show.  At the time, he was hosting a show on MTV, and they recorded some segments from his show where he debuted a song or two from the show (they played Right Side, and I think they did one other one as well).  At one point, he was recording a segment a few feet away from us by our seats in the balcony. 

I recorded this when it aired. It was for VH-1's Rock Show (the same show that Geoff debuted the video for Right Side on the year before, which I also have recorded). They showed snippets of Right Side, Take Hold, and QoTR. I would've preferred they show a full song instead of using that time to air the music video for Jet City Woman.

As far as Live Evolution goes, I initially didn't like Kelly Gray doing his own thing with some of DeGarmo's solos. I've since come around to not minding and even enjoying some of his stuff. I think Wilton's solo in Hit The Black was more of a head scratcher for me than some of what Gray did.

Looking back, I wish they'd included more of the show on the DVD. Especially the Q2k material.

[Kwyjibo]

I never got the Greatest Hits, nothing new there for me, and at the time of the release it was too expensive to buy it for just completist reasons.

Live Evolution I enjoyed quite a bit, although I only have the audio version. I thought it was cool that they had songs from every period of their career. And arranging them in suites and shaking things up a bit kept it interesting. I never minded Kelly's playing either, I thought it was good for what it was.

I remember being surprised at how good Geoff sounded most of the time. I got the impression from Promised Land on that he began to struggle vocally, especially in the higher register, but here he sounds really good.

This meant that the band would have to re-record in-studio, or rely on the second night.

Does anyone know if they tampered with the vocals a lot in the studio?

[Samsara]

Does anyone know if they tampered with the vocals a lot in the studio?

Officially, I have no idea. But if you listen to Live Evolution, there are some cringe-worthy moments that should have been. So, I've always believed there were a minimum amount of vocal touch-ups done to it. The short turnaround time from recording to release (two months) also supports that conclusion.

FYI for everyone -- the write-up on Side Projects and Band Dysfunction (2001-2002) will be posted tomorrow morning. There's really not a whole lot to talk about, so I figured I'd do two shorter ones this week, and then drop the Tribe era on everyone Monday, where there's more to discuss.