Author Topic: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: La Torre-fronted Albums (2013-present)  (Read 29488 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2017, 06:47:35 PM »
I don't want to turn this into a "let's debate the metal singers" thread, but while Tate was great in his prime, even at his best, he was no Rob Halford.  Sorry, but he just wasn't.

I respect your opinion, but I'm not sure you'd get an unbiased majority to agree on that.   If it turned into "fanbase vs. fanbase" Halford would win in a landslide.   But if you took a large group of metal heads that did not have a clear preference for one band or the other, I'm betting the outcome would be so neck and neck so as to effectively be a tie. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2017, 06:54:15 PM »
I don't want to turn this into a "let's debate the metal singers" thread, but while Tate was great in his prime, even at his best, he was no Rob Halford.  Sorry, but he just wasn't.

I respect your opinion, but I'm not sure you'd get an unbiased majority to agree on that.   If it turned into "fanbase vs. fanbase" Halford would win in a landslide.   But if you took a large group of metal heads that did not have a clear preference for one band or the other, I'm betting the outcome would be so neck and neck so as to effectively be a tie.

There is no way to quantify that.  It's easy to say that anyone who prefers Halford is more of a Priest fan and vice versa, but it's not alway that simple.  I personally rank the bands about even overall.  Both would be in the 20s if I had to rank them, with Priest probably being slightly higher thanks to longevity and more great songs, although I think Promised Land is better than any single album Priest ever did.

Besides, longevity as far as being a great singer counts for something.  Halford was great for far longer than Tate was. Tate had, what, a great 15- year window at most?

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2017, 07:04:05 PM »
AT MOST.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2017, 07:04:59 PM »
Why does it really matter?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2017, 07:28:31 PM »
Internet disagreements always matter.


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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2017, 07:56:46 PM »
I'm only comparing "raw talent" in the prime of their career. 

In my head (and I'm just spitballing here) take the four best albums from each (not based on the actual music, but vocal performance...though I don't imagine the lists would differ much) and then just compare vocal performances.   

I personally feel that Geoff's vocal performance on Rage for Order easily surpasses anything Rob has ever done. Because we're not just looking at range, but also variations of style, dynamic, timbre, emotional quality...etc..etc..   Though, I agree that Rob had far more "home run" performances (easily double of Geoff's output, if not more) and certainly took care of his instrument longer. 
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Offline Mosh

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2017, 09:48:03 PM »

2) The band was certainly talented in their own right.   But talent alone does not get you to the "next level" that you might be chasing.   There is no doubt that one of the reasons QR got immediate attention was because of "that singer"...   Geoff Tate was to metal was Steve Perry was to arena rock.     We can banter about Dickinson and Halford, but Geoff was *at least* their equal (if not even more talented) when he was in his prime.    I imagine it was that X factor that made the band overlook many personality flaws.   Especially when you consider that they obviously shared a musical vision at the beginning (i.e....they all, including Geoff, wanted to make metal with a progressive "Rush-Pink Floyd" weirdness)
Getting way ahead of myself here, but this is the problem I have with what QR is currently up to. Say what you will about Geoff, but he was the visionary of the band. The other guys are talented, but without Geoff they would've been another footnote in what eventually became the progressive metal movement, maybe not even that much. Unfortunately, they ended up in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Either they could let Geoff continue to turn the band into an embarrassment, or they could hire a clone and chase past glory. You can replicate the voice, but not the vision.

As for Geoff's standing with the all time greats, he's up there with Halford for sure. I was never a huge fan of Halford's lower range, whereas Geoff had more conviction down there IMO. But unlike Halford and Dickinson, Geoff's voice really didn't age well. There's a recording of a song the three of them did together and he is obviously the weak link, despite Rob and Bruce being 20-30 years into their careers. To further drive that point:

In my head (and I'm just spitballing here) take the four best albums from each (not based on the actual music, but vocal performance...though I don't imagine the lists would differ much) and then just compare vocal performances.   
This only highlights Geoff's shortcomings IMO. For Rob Halford, you could easily choose 4 albums from the 70s, 80s, or 90s and pit him against Geoff Tate. Same thing with Bruce Dickinson, except with the 80s, 90s, and 00s. Geoff has a much smaller window to choose from. Had he continued to improve as a vocalist, rather than focus on being an egomaniac, he could've reached those two easily. Take another perspective: Who's going to argue that the first four Priest albums or first four Maiden albums with Bruce are the respective singers' best moments?

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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2017, 10:03:59 PM »
You're ignoring the fact that I specifically addressed that "scope of work" easily goes to Halford.   In my example, I am attempting to throw that scope out the window for a moment and JUST compare performances.   You reintroduced "scope of work" to underline Geoff's shortcomings....something that I had already acknowledged.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2017, 10:18:41 PM »
Well it's hard to ignore scope when the four Judas Priest albums chosen are likely going to show much more diverse and developed singing than whichever four QR albums are chosen (which are probably going to be the first four for most people). Mine would be Painkiller, Screaming For Vengeance, Defenders Of the Faith, and Sad Wings. Tate's performance on the first four QR is comparable to Defenders, maybe Sad Wings. Doesn't come close to the other two IMO.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2017, 10:28:57 PM »
I stand by my claim that Geoff's performance on RFO easily by itself is better than anything Halford ever did.  After that, the next three could be a dead heat. 

In any event...there is certainly room for the argument.   I believe most people would say it was pretty damn close.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2017, 08:47:51 AM »
I'm not sure how often to do each record, so I'll do The Warning maybe on Monday or Tuesday?
I try waiting a week. If the discussion dies down early I'll do an update. The in-betweens like live albums and stuff don't take as long.

Following btw.

Thanks Mosh. I'll do that then. Although I think I'll do The Warning on Wednesday, just because the EP is just that -- an EP, not a whole album. But from then forward, maybe a week makes sense unless it is something like a live album. :)

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2017, 08:49:02 AM »

Are we going to talk about the live concert included on some versions of the EP? It's an awesome recording.

They are the songs from Live in Tokyo. I planned on doing that after The Warning. :)

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 09:01:05 AM »
In regard to the singer discussion, and trying to bring it back around to the EP, what Geoff did on the EP was jaw dropping for the same metalheads who listened to Dio, Maiden and Priest. Those fans were sitting there with their fist in the air, and saying how incredible Tate was. And that continued through Promised Land. So that's a 12-year stretch. That's saying something. Where Tate sits is up for debate (in another thread, I assume), but Tate's early high range, his overall timbre, and his emotive style were distinct. No one could do what he could do. Halford is the Metal God, but even he'd say Tate had a better range. I guarantee it. And while I love the Air Raid Siren and Dio, Tate blew them away, range-wise. Is one better than the other? That's all personal taste. But when the EP came out, people knew what they were hearing was something unlike they've heard before. Tate inspired a generation of metal singers, including Michael Kiske, Ray Alder, and many others.

As for the history between Tate and his bandmates, it all came down to the first time Tate sang with The Mob. According to friends who were there, they said there was that "buzz" in the room when everyone knew something was amazing (those of you who have gone to many concerts know that buzz I am talking about). The Mob was great, but it was Tate's voice that propelled them because it fit so well with what they were doing musically.

Tate didn't make Queensryche. Those songs were created by Chris and Michael. But Tate certainly got The Mob/Queensryche noticed. All the good singers do that. Would The Mob/Queensryche have been signed if Tate wasn't with them? Probably not. But then again, Tate's band, MYTH, likely wouldn't have gotten signed either. It was the combination of the right songs with that voice. They needed one another. Queensryche realized that, and Tate held out as long as he could, because he enjoyed playing with his friends Kelly Gray and Randy Gane in MYTH (can't really blame a guy for that). But once it was a sure thing that Queensryche was getting signed, Tate did what I think 99.9 percent of us would do -- he signed on with Queensryche and forged a writing partnership with DeGarmo and Wilton. The rest, is history...as we'll cover in the segment on The Warning, in a few days.  ;) :tup

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2017, 09:57:10 AM »
Great thread.  :clap:  I have been hoping for this thread for quite some time, but knew I wasn't really the guy to do it. 

Queensryche of the '80s and early '90s were the band that were ideal for my tastes.  I just didn't know it at the time.  I didn't discover them until LATE in the Mindcrime era, and my fandom wasn't cemented until Empire.  But more on that later.  Suffice it to say that, prior to Mindcrime, I just didn't notice them.  Not even sure why.  But I can't say I ever recall even hearing one of their songs.  I'm sure I must have caught them here or there, but I just don't recall them being played much, and on that rare occasion where I did hear them, they just must not have clicked.  To add to that, none of my friends in high school were into them.  So I missed out.

So all that said, I discovered the EP after Empire.  I had it on cassette, and I think I may have gotten a used copy at a pawn shop if I recall.  That wouldn't surprise me, since that is the time when I was in catch-up mode on their back catalog.  I had mixed feelings about the album.  I liked the title song quite a bit.  I didn't care for Blinded or Nightrider at the time (Nightrider still doesn't really do it for me, although Blinded became big for me after hearing the live version from the Tokyo show--but more on that later too).  But I thought The Lady Wore Black was out of this world.  All in all, I really liked the EP, but had a hard time really ranking it against other albums in their catalog, both because it is an EP rather than a full album, and because it is a raw debut.  But there is certainly plenty to like about it.  Coming to the album late, it is perhaps easier for me to put it into its historic context and see it as an album that was obviously influenced by early Maiden and Priest, while also showing off some incredible songwriting chops and experimentation that would be the band's hallmark moving forward.  But again, in terms of the album itself and the time it came out, it wasn't even a blip on my radar until much later.

Good discussion on Tate from Samsara and jammindude.  As far as the attitude, it would be a long time before I would really get enough of a glimpse of the real person to draw any meaningful conclusions of my own.  But looking back, I can definitely see enough of the signs to agree with JD's assessment.  But as far as the talent, this sums it up pretty well for me:
In regard to the singer discussion, and trying to bring it back around to the EP, what Geoff did on the EP was jaw dropping for the same metalheads who listened to Dio, Maiden and Priest. Those fans were sitting there with their fist in the air, and saying how incredible Tate was. And that continued through Promised Land. So that's a 12-year stretch. That's saying something. Where Tate sits is up for debate (in another thread, I assume), but Tate's early high range, his overall timbre, and his emotive style were distinct. No one could do what he could do. Halford is the Metal God, but even he'd say Tate had a better range. I guarantee it. And while I love the Air Raid Siren and Dio, Tate blew them away, range-wise. Is one better than the other? That's all personal taste. But when the EP came out, people knew what they were hearing was something unlike they've heard before. Tate inspired a generation of metal singers, including Michael Kiske, Ray Alder, and many others.

Agreed with all of that, including the take on what Halford would likely say.  I think that's probably dead on.  And Halford, from what relatively little I have seen/heard from him through the years, is always one to give others their due.  He has done that with a number of bands through the years.  If he likes something and thinks it is worthy of high praise, he doesn't hesitate to say so. 
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2017, 10:04:46 AM »
Personal anecdote regarding the EP -- I didn't like it when I first heard it. I got into Queensryche during summer 1987. Post-Rage, but pre-Mindcrime. I didn't get around to getting the EP until, honestly, after Empire came out. By that time, being enthralled with Mindcrime, Rage, and Empire, I just thought the EP was...inferior, I guess, from a sound perspective. And I guess it was, thinking objectively. I didn't use this term at the time, as a kid, but looking at it now, the EP is certainly less mature than Rage, Mindcrime and Empire, which contributed to how I felt about it.

It wasn't until Empire had been out a while that I really picked up a fondness for the EP. My first exposure to EP songs was Live in Tokyo, as a rental from the local video store probably in late 1988. I remember not liking it at all, like it wasn't the same band who did Mindcrime.  :lol :lol

Silly reaction looking back on it now, and obviously, my tune changed over the next year or so about it. But that was my first reaction to EP/The Warning songs.

Speaking of The Warning. That's up next. While not quite a week has past, there isn't as much to talk about regarding the EP, so I'll post The Warning tomorrow, and then give that a full week before moving on.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2017, 04:35:58 PM »
Well, your reaction to the EP mirrors my reaction to The Warning, so...  :dunno:
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Offline ronnibran

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2017, 04:42:09 PM »
Back in high school QR were one of my favorite bands.  I first bought the Promised Land album.  I was of course familiar with the Empire and Mindcrime hits, but timing-wise really dug Disconnected and made the purchase on a whim.

Quickly bought their entire catalog after that.  But....  For whatever reason, I never got into the EP or even The Warning.  Every album after that (well, at least for a while) I really loved.  Through Hear in the now Frontier, which I LOVED.  Q2K was highly anticipated but may be the biggest ever album disappointment for me (probably because I loved HITNF so much).

I don't want to go on a long tangent as the discussion is currently on the EP - I can only name one song from it by memory "The Lady Wore Black" (?) but even that song I can only picture the main chorus line.  I started listening to rock/metal in the mid nineties so I can't really make much in the way of comparisons to other stuff that was coming out the same time as the EP.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2017, 04:45:25 PM »
My first introduction to Queenryche was the 2000 Greatest Hits record, around the time that I was really starting to discover progressive and power metal.  Up until 1999/2000, my view of metal was still largely stuck in the 70's and 80's, dominated by the likes of Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Ozzy, Dio, Scorpions and many, many "hair bands".  Even thrash metal bands like like Metallica and Megadeth were still largely a novelty to me.  When I first began to hear of bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Stratovarius, Rhapsody and Savatage, something about those particular flavors of metal resonated with me deeply, and I began to search out as many similar bands as I could find.

It didn't take long for the name "Queensryche" to cross my path.  I was told that they had been a big influence on Dream Theater, so naturally I dove right in.  However, I was also told that their most recent material "sucked", and that nothing after Empire was worth listening to.  So to hedge my bets, the first album of theirs I checked out was a compilation that spanned most of their discography up to that point in time.

Thus, it was perhaps appropriate that the first song I heard was "Queen of the Reich", and I was hooked from the opening note.  Here was a band that was very strongly rooted in the classic metal upon which I had been raised, but there was something in their sound, a certain regal majesty, that seemed to presage the progressive and power metal I had just discovered.  I would much later realize that it was Queensryche, along side Fates Warning and Savatage, that were largely responsible for bridging the gap between classic metal and progressive metal.  I'm not going to argue here over whether or not Queensryche should be properly considered progressive metal in the strictest sense, but I think it is undeniable that much of what they did in the 80's and early 90's set the stage for the prog-metal bands that followed in their footsteps.

Of course, you may not even notice it from just listening to the '82 EP.  The band was raw and hungry, and were essentially just making an american version of NWOBHM.  There really isn't much progressiveness on the EP, other then perhaps some 70's influences on "The Lady Wore Black".  Songs like "Queen of the Reich" and "Nightrider" are about as purely classic metal as music can get.  The sweeping landscapes of Operation: Mindcrime and Empire were still far off into the future.  But even at such an embryonic stage in their development, Queensryche seemed to have a maturity and grandeur to them that eluded their contemporaries, and there were strong hints at future greatness from the very beginning.  It is little wonder indeed why just these four songs made such an impact in the metal underground in 1982, and it isn't just because of Geoff's soaring vocals or Whip and DeGarmo's blistering guitar work.  While the talents of the band-members were obviously impressive, it was the quality of the compositions that really made Queensryche's debut something special.

Speaking of which, I've always been amazed it took so long for "Prophecy" to receive a proper release.  Easily one of my favorite tracks by the band, it captures perfectly that balance between youthful ambition and songwriting mastery that made the EP so unique among new bands at the time.  It rightly deserves to be placed in the same company with such greats as "Queen of the Reich" and "The Lady Wore Black."

Not many bands can say their hit the ground running as well as Queensryche.  Even fewer can say their earliest music was also some of their best without devaluing their later works.  But for Queensryche, that would not be an issue.  The excellence of their debut EP would stand the test of time, while simultaneously in no way diminishing the awesome quality of what was to follow.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2017, 05:25:34 PM »
Dark Master just reminded me....

This version of The Prophecy was recorded during the Rage For Order sessions, and I'm very surprised the band chose to include it on the re-release of the EP.    Obviously they prefer this version.   

The first time I heard The Prophecy was a much more raw version recorded during (I believe) the Warning sessions, which only ever appeared on the soundtrack for "The Decline of Western Civilization Part 2: The Metal Years"....not even sure it's still in print.  I had it on cassette. 

I personally would have liked for both versions to get an official release.   We have alternate versions of other songs, why not Prophecy?

EDIT - For the record, I actually prefer the rawer version.  But it might all depend on which version you heard first.   
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2017, 05:43:20 PM »
I won't jump the gun here too much, except to say that I listened to Rage for Order to and from work today in the car...and it was awesome. :hat

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2017, 10:42:17 PM »
I'm in the same boat as Dark Master that I got into Queensryche with the Greatest Hits in 2000.  I had known Silent Lucidity beforehand, but that was basically it.  I had heard that they released some outstanding material in the past, but were currently releasing subpar music.  I figured that the greatest hits would be a good starting point as it focused on their earlier songs.

I bought it and put it on and basically did a slow turn towards the cd player with my jaw dropped as Queen of the Reich was blasting.  I was officially won over.

But Queensryche is such a diverse band that I can easily see someone loving one album from them, but then disliking another (and I'm just talking about the first six albums, the top ones).  I'm sure there were thousands of new fans during the Empire era that went out and collected their earlier albums and were dumbfounded with the EP.  I'm sure they either found it too heavy or thought it didn't sound anything like they were expecting.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2017, 02:29:05 AM »
So IN!.

So, no-one's gonna talk about the video for 'Queen of the Ryche', right? I must have seen that thing somewhere during the late eighties on MTV's Headbanger's Ball a dozen or so times. If you haven't seen it yet, look it up, its so cheesy, you wont ever forget it. But the sounds. The song!!! Like Jammindude said, that was like 'ok, that's it, sold'.
I really can't say when I hard the ep exactly, if it was before or after RFO and Mindcrime, but I remember buying it and putting it on and rockin the F out. And that voice. There really wasn't anything like it out there, as much as a Dickinson, Dio and Halfort fan I was. This was something else. As an aspiring rock-singer (although I probably didn't know that at the time) I could actually sing along for a lot of the parts, but that really hig notes? No way man. No way in Hell!  :omg:

Not getting ahead of the thread, but I actually heard the titletrack for Operation Mindcrime played on Dutch radio, before the album was released. They were mixing it in the Wisseloord Studio's and had brought a track with them for the radio-interview. Needless to say I HAD to buy that album, the day it was released. Oh, and for all the hate for 'The Warning', I never hated it at all. I thought it was a great expansion of their sound. Anyway, on with the discussion!  :hefdaddy
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2017, 08:45:13 AM »
So, no-one's gonna talk about the video for 'Queen of the Ryche', right? I must have seen that thing somewhere during the late eighties on MTV's Headbanger's Ball a dozen or so times. If you haven't seen it yet, look it up, its so cheesy, you wont ever forget it.

:lol  Yeah, cheesy.  But still nothing compared to:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFVFzUJ10oQ
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2017, 09:09:40 AM »
So, no-one's gonna talk about the video for 'Queen of the Ryche', right? I must have seen that thing somewhere during the late eighties on MTV's Headbanger's Ball a dozen or so times. If you haven't seen it yet, look it up, its so cheesy, you wont ever forget it.

:lol  Yeah, cheesy.  But still nothing compared to:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFVFzUJ10oQ

C'mon now, bosk. It was all the rage at the time.  :tup You know you have a similar outfit to Tate in the closet.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2017, 09:17:24 AM »
In the closet?  Shoot, I'm wearing it right now!  :2metal:
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Offline T-ski

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2017, 09:24:50 AM »


So, no-one's gonna talk about the video for 'Queen of the Ryche', right? I must have seen that thing somewhere during the late eighties on MTV's Headbanger's Ball a dozen or so times. If you haven't seen it yet, look it up, its so cheesy, you wont ever forget it. But the sounds. The song!!! Like Jammindude said, that was like 'ok, that's it, sold'.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2017, 09:31:46 AM »
The Warning (1984/2003)



Lineup:

Geoff Tate – Vocals
Chris DeGarmo – Guitar/Vocals
Michael Wilton – Guitar
Eddie Jackson – Bass
Scott Rockenfield – Drums


After touring concluded for the EP in late 1983, Queensr˙che set to work on finalizing the songs they had written and played on tour that would be for The Warning. Some of those tunes included “Before the Storm,” “Child of Fire,” “Roads to Madness,” and what would be the title track, “Warning.”

Unlike the EP, however, which was mostly written before Tate was in the band, The Warning was a full-on collaboration, with DeGarmo, Tate, and Wilton being the main songwriters. As a result, the songs began to morph a bit from the band's more NWOBHM sound, to a fusion of metal and progressive rock that Queensryche (along with contemporaries Savatage and Fates Warning, and later, Dream Theater) would later be credited for helping establish American progressive metal. Musically, the band really gelled, as Wilton's heavier riffs were put into more complex arrangements by DeGarmo, with an emphasis on creating chord progressions that weren't “standard” of the day. Queensr˙che embraced mood and tempo changes frequently on the album, particularly on the nearly 10-minute opus “Roads to Madness,” but also on more succinct songs such as “Child of Fire.” In addition to showcasing Tate vocally, it helped Eddie Jackson and Scott Rockenfield develop their own distinct sound, both as a rhythm section, and as individual players.

Lyrically, The Warning was very much from its day, focusing on topics such as artificial intelligence and nuclear fallout, with a bit of fantasy thrown in for good measure. Tate's influence in the lyrical department was noticeable. Between he and DeGarmo, the band shifted toward a more serious tone on The Warning that would continue through much of the band's career, ultimately earning them the moniker "The Thinking Man's Metal Band" (which the band despised, although they acknowledged it was meant as a compliment). Tate also recycled song titles from old MYTH songs, bringing in the titles “Take Hold of the Flame,” and “Before the Storm.”

Instead of recording in Seattle, Queensr˙che headed to London, where they would lay down tracks at various studios (including Abbey Road) with noted Pink Floyd producer James Guthrie. The band was visited by a number of famous British musicians, but of note to DeGarmo was Jimmy Page who popped in for a listen. From demo to final version, the songs comprising The Warning didn't change a ton, except for “NM 156.” That tune morphed from a completely different demo called “Waiting for the Kill.” Of note in the latter song was the long harmonized guitar solo by DeGarmo and Wilton (written by Wilton). The band loved the solo, but wasn't as high on the song. So they cut the solo out and wrote “NM 156,” and put the solo there. The direction of “NM 156” was credited by Tate in future interviews as the genesis of what Queensr˙che ultimately become as songwriters, as it featured time changes and subtle complexities that became the band's musical hallmark.

Queensryche also starts its long relationship with the late Michael Kamen on The Warning, who provided orchestration for the album. Kamen would later be in the spotlight for his work on "Silent Lucidity."

Fun fact: “Deliverance” is the only traditional song (vocals/music that isn't a segue) in Queensr˙che's catalog that Michael Wilton has solely composed (lyrics/music).

Once recording was completed in Summer 1984, the band turned the record over to EMI, who promptly had Val Garay remix and re-sequence it to what was ultimately released and what everyone is generally familiar with. The original version of The Warning, however, had “NM 156” as the lead song, so that the closer, “Roads to Madness” would end on the same note as “NM 156” began on, giving the album a circular feel. In addition, “No Sanctuary” and “Deliverance” were flip-flopped, and “Warning” was supposed to come before “Roads to Madness.” The label's rationale behind the re-sequence was to have the lead single, “Warning,” lead-off the album.

The mix was changed so that the drums were much higher and guitars were lower, giving The Warning a “flat” or “dead” sound to a degree. While the style was very much popular at the time, it was contrary to what Queensr˙che had intended with the intricate guitar work and vocals present on the record. Reports from the band's crew during those years, and later, the band itself, revealed that they were “crushed” that the label had interfered with the album. While the album was remastered in 2003, unfortunately, no re-mixing or re-sequencing to what was originally intended was done, despite the flaws. A few live cuts were included as bonus tracks with new liner notes.

You can see the approved original sequence here on an old cassette tape of the final initial mix from the recording sessions – http://www.anybodylistening.net/thewarning.html (scroll down).

The changes made to The Warning were all done while the band was on the road in Japan in August 1984 (see the forthcoming/next entry, Live in Tokyo), leaving Queensryche no time to have it re-adjusted. Originally slated for a Spring 1984 release (as per Tate in a live show from Montreal in 1983), The Warning was actually released on Sept. 7, 1984. In addition to “Warning,” “Take Hold of the Flame” was also a single and quite popular in Japan.

Upon returning from Japan, Queensr˙che embarked on its first world tour, opening for acts such as DIO, KISS and Iron Maiden, sprinkling in a few headline dates along the way. The main touring for The Warning spanned nearly seven months, concluding in earnest in early March 1985. However, Queensr˙che played a few gigs after that, including a short headline run in mid-July 1985 that featured the performance of an early demo of “Neue Regel,” which would appear on their next album, Rage for Orderhttp://www.anybodylistening.net/7-12-85.html (setlist). As an aside, setlists for the tour (all the original lineup's tours) can be accessed at http://www.anybodylistening.net/tourdates.html.

Samsara's top-3 tracks from The Warning: “NM 156,” “Roads to Madness,” “Take Hold of the Flame.”

Next up...Live in Tokyo...

Offline Cruithne

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EP (1982/1983)
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2017, 09:34:11 AM »
I'm not sure when I finally bought the EP but it was well into QR's career, maybe some time after Tribe was released. However, by that time I was already familiar with Queen Of The Reich, Nightrider, The Lady Wore Black and Prophecy from Building Empires (IIRC).

Queen Of The Reich remains a barnstormer of a song in spite of the silly lyrics, though Todd La Torre has really made that song his own as it works better with more grit to the vocals, The Lady Wore Black is a classic and Prophecy (albeit not on the original release...) is a really good song too.

Nightrider and Blinded are a little bit typically embryonic for a band just starting out, but are still solid efforts.

Tate's vocals were pretty quacky at the time, and it would be a couple more releases yet before that tendency largely went away, but all in all it was a hell of a debut EP for a young band on a tight budget back then.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2017, 09:58:53 AM »
The story of what was done to change the band's vision of The Warning is, sadly, an all-too-common theme from that timeframe.  It's too bad, because I think both the mix and sequence take away from the album. 

For me, because I discovered Queensryche late, this album came at an odd time.  I had Mindcrime and Empire, and I think The Warning was the next one I got (either that or the EP--they were fairly close in time).  I didn't immediately care for it much.  A friend and I used to joke that it felt like Tate felt the need to prove himself by constantly going for that "one high note" all over the album.  We would listen to a song and go, "wait for it...WAIT for it...boom!" and erupt in laughter.  But it was all just in fun.  I didn't hate the album.  It just didn't grab me until much later as I began to finally differentiate the tracks on it and appreciate the songs individually.  Even when I saw them on the Building Empires tour, I wasn't familiar with the early material and didn't recognize songs like Roads To Madness and Take Hold when they played them.  But later, those would become two of my favorite songs from them.  NM156 was another that began to stand out early.

As years passed, in the early '90s once I was back home from my military jaunt, there was a music store near me that sold some silver disc bootlegs labeled as "imports."  :lol  I picked up a copy of an MTV Unplugged bootleg that had a bunch of live songs that I later learned were from, I believe, Live in Tokyo.  That bootleg, with its better quality live versions of some of the deeper cuts from The Warning (as well as a few from the EP) made me revisit and appreciate some of those other songs as well.  So, really, my journey to really learning to appreciate The Warning took several years, even though I loved the band to death prior to that, just on the strength of Mindcrime and Empire alone, initially.  In a way, I'm glad I didn't hear The Warning at the time it came out.  I suspect that my reaction to it would have been similar to my initial reaction when I eventually did hear it, but that without the strength of Mindcrime and Empire to hold my interest, I may have mistakenly written the band off and not revisited them.  I have derived a LOT of enjoyment from Queensryche through the years (especially from 1990 to 1998), so I'm glad that didn't happen.

My journey to appreciate The Warning in a way mirrors a lot of my experiences with the DeGarmo-era Queensryche albums.  As with all of the albums other than Empire, I was not all that enthusiastic upon first listen and wasn't really sure whether I liked them or not.  But as I dug in, over the long haul, they became some of my favorites as I discovered the depth and rich textures this band was able to weave into their songs.  The Warning wasn't as deep as the albums that followed.  But the seeds were clearly there.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2017, 02:06:10 PM »
"NM156" could quite possibly be Queensryche's coolest tune; it might be a toss up between that and "The Whisper".

Offline BanksD

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2017, 02:31:51 PM »
Believe it or not The Warning is probably my favorite QR album (Sometimes it alternates with Mindcrime.)

I love the fusion of 80s heavy metal with a slightly more progressive edge, sure some of their later albums are more formed and polished, but this one has a little more of a rougher edge that I find highly appealing. Another thing that puts this album up there for me is that it just has so many songs that are just damn GOOD such as: En Force, NM156, Roads to Madness, Take Hold, the title track, etc. Later albums may be more well put together but they don't quite have the same density of songs I love on them.

What I find interesting however, is that this album borrows a log of stylistic elements from bands like Priest and Maiden, yet those are two bands I've never exactly been "in love" with, yet I really like this album. Perhaps its the more intricate/progressive songwriting. Plus I find that there are a lot of textural/atmospheric elements found on this album that I never quite found in those bands.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2017, 03:43:58 PM »
Believe it or not The Warning is probably my favorite QR album (Sometimes it alternates with Mindcrime.)
I'm on the other end of the spectrum - never been a fan of The Warning, up to this day. Can't say I've put much effort to listen to it for years, but when I first got it, it never did much for me in the first place. For a long time, the only songs I really liked were the title track and THotF, although over the years I came to appreciate NM156 and Roads to Madness; the rest still does little for me even now.

I'm not sure why this is, if it's just me or perhaps the order in which I got into them. My intro to QR was hearing Eyes of a Stranger played regularly on the radio in 1988. A buddy of mine had the hots for a girl who happened to have O:M, which she lent to me and got me into the band. Within a year of that time, I was working at a garage and one of my co-workers had RFO and the debut EP, which expanded my fandom of the band. RFO remains my favorite album of their's. Can't remember when I finally heard The Warning - if it was before or after Empire came out (I still remember seeing the promo display in the record store windows when Empire was released), but in any case, it was a disappointment for me. I think because it didn't click with me then, I never paid much attention to it afterward seeing as they had plenty of other albums for me to enjoy, as well as DT's WDaDU and other bands I was getting into around the same time. Ah well...
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2017, 05:37:36 PM »
I like The Warning, but I don't love it.  I like everything on it, but the only songs I really, really like or love are En Force, NM 156 and Before the Storm, proving again that I tend to really like when QR gets a little weird.  No Sanctuary is one I also like quite a bit.

On the flip side, Take Hold of the Flame sounds like an attempt to write an anthemic metal tune, but it falls kinda flat.  Not a bad song, but not really notable.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2017, 07:19:27 PM »
OK..I LOVE Warning. Love it, and it's one of my favorite albums of all time. Love it. I said that, right?

I know Brian has talked about the track sequence before. To me, the sequence it was released works perfectly.

The Title Track is a great opener. Totally sets the tone and picks up where the EP left off. En Force follows and is a bit more refined.

But then the album run of runs begins.
Deliverance-No Sanctuary-NM156 might be my all time three song run on any album. Seriously. Deliverance is my all time favorite "air drumming" song of all time. Just an incredible troika (fancy word!)!

Take Hold Of the Flame stands up, and I probably like it more today than when I did back then. Before The Storm is probably my least favorite track here and Child Of Fire is sneaky good.

But Roads To Madness is easily my all time favorite QR track.  Simply amazing.


I got a detention in 10th grade because I had a Kerrang tucked into my Religion text book, and my teacher caught me reading the Warning Review. KKKKK!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: The Warning (1984/2003)
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2017, 08:04:15 PM »
I've told my story about this album in part on the forum in the past, so I hope that nobody minds me sounding like a broken record.

At the time that I discovered this album I was still quite young. I was 11 years old at the time that it was released. My musical tastes basically encompassed bands like Kiss, Van Halen and Motley Crue. I had an older brother that I idolized as most younger brothers do, and I would often trail behind him as I'm sure is a normal thing for a little brother to do. Sometime in the winter of 84/85 I began to notice a very different sounding band coming from the stereo in his room. I often annoyed the living shit out of him, so I was barred from entering his room, but the new sound captivated me. I would begin hanging around close to his room each evening waiting to hear this new music. I didn't even know the name of the band, and it didn't really matter at that point. All I knew was that what I was hearing was completely different than everything that I liked up to that point in my short life.

The Warning became the soundtrack for that winter and into the coming spring. We were both hooked through the bag, and listened to the album daily for several months. I remember finally asking him what the name of the band was, and in my juvenile mind thinking that it was the most exotic thing that I had ever seen.

The Warning changed me and my musical tastes forever. This is the album that helped mature my musical tastes, and would allow me to branch out to bands like Iron Maiden. Those were also my first steps towards discovering any form of progressive music. This album is also the standard bearer for the flow of songs on all other albums that I would discover later in life. I still think of albums as having two sides, and the run of songs from THotF to Roads to Madness is the gold standard in my mind. I realize that the album had a different intended track listing, but in this case I'm happy that the record company changed it.

The Warning remains one of my favorite albums of all time. I realize that most fans of the band dismiss it in favor of one of the albums that were to come in the next decade, but I still feel the effects of this album every time that I listen to music. For me music is as essential to life as oxygen and water, so that's a huge thing for me.
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