Author Topic: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread  (Read 106058 times)

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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #280 on: July 11, 2017, 09:06:01 AM »
On the Tribe headline tour in fall 2003, they did The Thin Line, including a bit of Tate sax. (He did this on his first solo tour too.) Good stuff. They also played Anybody Listening a bit on that tour, which was cool. I remember asking Michael that day if they would do it (this was the Westbury, Long Island gig), and he said he didn't think so, but they'd do it in soundcheck. And so I saw it in soundcheck. It was the first time I saw it performed, and while Chris wasn't there, it was still really cool.

One of my personal favorites from the record is Della Brown, which is Queensryche's take on the blues. That song always seems to be a dividing one among fans. I love it though. It has such great guitar work in it. I feel it is criminally underrated. On the 1997 HITNF tour, I saw them twice. The first time was in New Jersey, and Tate was still getting over blowing out his voice. So we got the shortened "B" set that included Della Brown. Then a few days later, they played Long Island, and they were back doing the original length "A" set that didn't have Della Brown. So it was cool that I got a couple different sets. Della was a big highlight and was the first time I had seen it played.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #281 on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:49 AM »
Della Brown is amazing, and man what a picture Tate is able to create with the lyrics and his delivery.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #282 on: July 11, 2017, 09:57:38 AM »
Great write up Brian.
Mindcrime was and still is my favourite album of all time so the follow up was always in for a hard time, but I loved it from the start. It helped that I was a melodic rock fan anyway, so the slight direction change was only taking them into an area I was comfortable with.

It is a phenomenal sounding album, and again I've bought so many copies of this album. I have that DVD audio disc even though I've never had a surround sound system to play it on.

I never realised that the answer machine message was Randy Gane - I always thought it was Tate.

I love the cover of Scarborough Fair. A lesson in how to make a cover your own, and put your stamp on it.

Anybody Listening is the standout for me. Top 5 song, probably.

I loved this band back then, but it was downhill from here.

Interesting read regarding DeGarmo's thoughts, and explains how he was able to walk away. He certainly sounds like the tortured artist.


Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #283 on: July 11, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
On the 1997 HITNF tour, I saw them twice. The first time was in New Jersey, and Tate was still getting over blowing out his voice.

Getting way ahead of things here, but since you mentioned it I thought that would bring it up. I was at the show in Columbus, Ohio that I think that he blew his voice out at. They were playing an outdoor venue called Polaris Amphitheater, and a great many repairs had recently been done to the place because of a riot that happened not long before hand. Ozzfest had rolled through town and Ozzy decided not to come out and play that night due to illness. The crowd lost their shit, and ended up looting the place starting fires ect. ect...

New wood that was put up in the sound barrier at the back end of the place could easily be seen, and some other things stood out as looking like repairs. I had my now ex-wife with me, and one of my buddies from work. When we walked through the ticket gate I remember telling her to stay very close to me. QR obviously wasn't going to attract the same kind of crowd that an Ozzfest show would, but what had happened recently was still fresh in everyone's mind. Then QR came out and only played five songs before leaving the stage. You could tell that there was something very wrong with Geoff. Chris came back out and talked to the crowd about GT's voice, and apologized but the mood started to turn a little ugly rather quickly. Needless to say, we got the fuck out of there in a hurry. Unfortunately, that was my last memory of seeing CD on stage.

Back to Empire, I remember going out and getting the album the day it was released. I had read an interview with CD and MW in one of the guitar magazines a month or so before the release, and I was really pumped up about the new album. And I fuckin' hated it on the first few listens. In fact, I'd say that I didn't care about it for the first two or three months that it was out. I'm not sure what eventually brought me around to liking the record, but it took awhile. In fact, Hand on Heart, and One and Only have never been very "listenable" to me. I like HoH better between the two songs, but there are times that I'm more than willing to skip them while listening to the album.

Initially, I think that it sounded like the band trying to go on a "cash grab", and in a way I still feel that way about it. It was quite obviously an attempt to write more "radio friendly" songs, but it was very well done despite that. In retrospect, I wouldn't have it any other way because I think that this album is essential QR, but I wasn't quite prepared for it at the time.

I don't have any particular favorites that stand out much more than any of the other songs on the record, but if you held a gun to my head I'd probably choose The Thin Line and Della Brown as my favorites.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #284 on: July 11, 2017, 11:51:25 AM »
Great job with the write up!

This is a clear example of Queensryche trying to broaden their fanbase with radio friendly songs, but I think the album straddles the line perfectly between going too radio friendly and still keeping their  hard rock credibility.

The title track kicks major ass and while Silent Lucidity is overplayed, it doesn't take away from the fact that it's an outstanding song.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #285 on: July 11, 2017, 11:57:28 AM »
On the 1997 HITNF tour, I saw them twice. The first time was in New Jersey, and Tate was still getting over blowing out his voice.

Getting way ahead of things here, but since you mentioned it I thought that would bring it up. I was at the show in Columbus, Ohio that I think that he blew his voice out at. They were playing an outdoor venue called Polaris Amphitheater, and a great many repairs had recently been done to the place because of a riot that happened not long before hand. Ozzfest had rolled through town and Ozzy decided not to come out and play that night due to illness. The crowd lost their shit, and ended up looting the place starting fires ect. ect...

New wood that was put up in the sound barrier at the back end of the place could easily be seen, and some other things stood out as looking like repairs. I had my now ex-wife with me, and one of my buddies from work. When we walked through the ticket gate I remember telling her to stay very close to me. QR obviously wasn't going to attract the same kind of crowd that an Ozzfest show would, but what had happened recently was still fresh in everyone's mind. Then QR came out and only played five songs before leaving the stage. You could tell that there was something very wrong with Geoff. Chris came back out and talked to the crowd about GT's voice, and apologized but the mood started to turn a little ugly rather quickly. Needless to say, we got the fuck out of there in a hurry. Unfortunately, that was my last memory of seeing CD on stage.

Back to Empire, I remember going out and getting the album the day it was released. I had read an interview with CD and MW in one of the guitar magazines a month or so before the release, and I was really pumped up about the new album. And I fuckin' hated it on the first few listens. In fact, I'd say that I didn't care about it for the first two or three months that it was out. I'm not sure what eventually brought me around to liking the record, but it took awhile. In fact, Hand on Heart, and One and Only have never been very "listenable" to me. I like HoH better between the two songs, but there are times that I'm more than willing to skip them while listening to the album.

Initially, I think that it sounded like the band trying to go on a "cash grab", and in a way I still feel that way about it. It was quite obviously an attempt to write more "radio friendly" songs, but it was very well done despite that. In retrospect, I wouldn't have it any other way because I think that this album is essential QR, but I wasn't quite prepared for it at the time.

I don't have any particular favorites that stand out much more than any of the other songs on the record, but if you held a gun to my head I'd probably choose The Thin Line and Della Brown as my favorites.

I have that Columbus show on CD! One of the very few times QR cancelled a gig. There's no way to verify this, but it may have been the first time (for those kinds of health reasons).

As for Empire, it's funny. We all (meaning the majority of the QR fan base) praise them for being ahead of the game, but honestly, they really were only ahead of the game and truly original on one record: Rage for Order. And even then, they followed trends just like everyone basically did. But some how, we all tried to say they never did. But they certainly did and Empire is no exception. It's totally a move toward commercial, polished hard rock.

I don't begrudge them that move, however. EVERYONE did it then. Metallica, Megadeth, everyone. For Queensryche, it worked, just because of the abilities of the guys, and the wide variety of people that were Queensryche fans. But Empire absolutely was pointed at trying to capture as big an audience as possible.

On the other hand, you also have to start looking (nowadays, this is easy, since it is all in retrospect) at DeGarmo's maturity as a songwriter. They got their most experimental with Rage, did the big concept, and now, with Empire, you see DeGarmo more focusing more on warmth and song structure.

I think DeGarmo himself said it best when he and Tate were interviewed on the Empire DVD-A back in 2002...summarizing, DeGarmo said: We stripped it down to have an guitar and a vocal. And if the song didn't work in some way just with that, there was a problem, and we have to go back and look at it.

Empire was really a natural evolution for DeGarmo and Tate. Wilton, interesting, has a good amount of credits on the record, but if you notice, much of them are just big riff songs (Empire, Resistance). Wilton was still in that metal head space (I think) to a degree, but DeGarmo was starting to branch out a bit more. And that appealed to Tate, and as we'll see with the next couple of records, Wilton sort of phased out of a lot of the writing...

Great job with the write up!

This is a clear example of Queensryche trying to broaden their fanbase with radio friendly songs, but I think the album straddles the line perfectly between going too radio friendly and still keeping their  hard rock credibility.

The title track kicks major ass and while Silent Lucidity is overplayed, it doesn't take away from the fact that it's an outstanding song.

Thanks man!

I can't really listen to SL or Jet City much these days because of how overplayed they are. Empire is starting to get that way too. I find myself gravitating toward Anybody Listening (my favorite anyway), Della, Best I Can, Resistance...
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #286 on: July 11, 2017, 12:23:35 PM »
Not to be contrarian, but I kind of gently push back on the notion that Empire was a knowing commercial move and/or a cash grab.  If there are interviews to this effect, so be it, but to me, it was more of an organic move that paid off rather than some conscious effort to alienate the fan base.   

It is a tie between O:M and this for my favorite QR record, and sadly the last I would hold in high regard.  I think it got it's popularity because of a) the single (and all the gymnastics that went along with it, like the "live with an orchestra" nonsense) as well as b) the absolute pristine sound of that record.  Samsara noted "Gilmour" and "Floyd" in his writeup, and I see a whole shit ton of Pink Floyd on that record.   Lush, immersive, and warm, and that all lends itself to the reaction it got, moreso than the prog metal of O:M and what I consider to be the harsher, metallic sound of the two records that precede that.   

Empire is just a well-crafted, well-played, perfect sounding metal record, and that resonated with people.   I think this is a case (one of relatively few, I'll give you) of a band reaping the rewards they have earned rather than actively going to seek those rewards and having it pay off (Stay Hungry would be an example of this).  For what it's worth, I feel the same way about Metallica's The Black Album.  I don't at all consider that record a sell-out or pandering to the commercial masses.   It just so happens that as a reaction to what came before, it did strike a nerve with the masses. 

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #287 on: July 11, 2017, 12:37:33 PM »
I think when a band releases an album that is SO accessible, especially in Metallica and Queensryche's cases, that follows albums that were so unique and anything but accessible, being a "sell out" is a natural reaction for a fan to have.

I didn't find Empire to be a sell out kind of record or a cash grab or whatever. It felt like it had enough oomph (not sure what word I'm looking for..integrity maybe). My concern always was where would QR go from "here". Same concern I had with Metallica at the time. And Iron Maiden.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #288 on: July 11, 2017, 12:40:37 PM »
Not to be contrarian, but I kind of gently push back on the notion that Empire was a knowing commercial move and/or a cash grab.  If there are interviews to this effect, so be it, but to me, it was more of an organic move that paid off rather than some conscious effort to alienate the fan base.   

As I explained a little above, it's a bit of both. I think to deny that it was a commercial move to broaden the fan base is to deny the obvious staring you in the face. On the other hand, as I also said, DeGarmo was trending that way anyway. So call it a hybrid. Empire, as mentioned in the write-up, was the right record, at the right time, to both be popular, and for the band as an artistic unit.

Quote
It is a tie between O:M and this for my favorite QR record, and sadly the last I would hold in high regard.  I think it got it's popularity because of a) the single (and all the gymnastics that went along with it, like the "live with an orchestra" nonsense) as well as b) the absolute pristine sound of that record.  Samsara noted "Gilmour" and "Floyd" in his writeup, and I see a whole shit ton of Pink Floyd on that record.   Lush, immersive, and warm, and that all lends itself to the reaction it got, moreso than the prog metal of O:M and what I consider to be the harsher, metallic sound of the two records that precede that.   

Empire is just a well-crafted, well-played, perfect sounding metal record, and that resonated with people.  I think this is a case (one of relatively few, I'll give you) of a band reaping the rewards they have earned rather than actively going to seek those rewards and having it pay off (Stay Hungry would be an example of this).  For what it's worth, I feel the same way about Metallica's The Black Album.  I don't at all consider that record a sell-out or pandering to the commercial masses.   It just so happens that as a reaction to what came before, it did strike a nerve with the masses.

Not sure I can fully agree with the bolded. You're right to a degree. However, it is pretty well documented (I thought) that by bringing Bob Rock in, the band pretty much wanted commercial success, and he was the guy to get them there. As for Empire, again, you're right to a degree, they are reaping the rewards from a lot of the work that came beforehand. But those rewards, in my opinion, would have been much more limited had they followed Mindcrime with a heavier record. Queensryche knew what it was doing, in my view. They just made sure to straddle the line really well to keep their options open, and their integrity intact...


I didn't find Empire to be a sell out kind of record or a cash grab or whatever. It felt like it had enough oomph (not sure what word I'm looking for..integrity maybe). My concern always was where would QR go from "here". Same concern I had with Metallica at the time. And Iron Maiden.

It does have that "oomph" you are talking about for sure. But I also think it was carefully crafted to give the best of both worlds. It was a natural evolution, but I think they also saw the commercial popularity and wanted to seize that while still maintaining credibility (which is why the lyrical content balance on the record is likely key, as is just enough musical complexity).
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #289 on: July 11, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
Time was running out on Queensryche. Empire would've had a much larger impact had it been released in 1988.
Mindcrime was not heavy metal, was not hair metal, was not thrash, was not all that progressive per se.  It was just good solid hard rock. No where to really compartmentalize it in 1988.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #290 on: July 11, 2017, 12:48:51 PM »
Samsara:  great post as usual.  Not arguing, just discussing, but (and you'd have no way to know this) my view of art is a little different than most.  I believe the artists' vision is the only thing that matters.   I can only say "I like this" or "I don't like this".  The only way you can say "good" or "bad" is in the distance the final product got from the artist's vision.   

To that end, if James Hetfield wanted to put out the closest thing he could to an AC/DC record, and did so, and oh-by-the-way, it went to number one and sold 30 million copies (sound familiar?) then it's an artistic statement and of pure integrity.   If Hetfield wanted to put out the sickest, heaviest, most vile metal record of all time, but ended up putting out The Black Album (which, while great, is not that), then that is selling out.   

It's why I have a problem with artists - won't name names - that are playing arenas to middle aged couples on date night while wearing "Iron Maiden" concert shirts.  That's not cool, that's showing that your music isn't where your heart is.   

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #291 on: July 11, 2017, 12:51:23 PM »
Not to be contrarian, but I kind of gently push back on the notion that Empire was a knowing commercial move and/or a cash grab.  If there are interviews to this effect, so be it, but to me, it was more of an organic move that paid off rather than some conscious effort to alienate the fan base.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that they were trying to alienate the fan base. If I gave that impression then I apologize.

However, I'm not sure that they could listen to the songs that they were producing for the record and not recognize that they were much more commercial friendly. I think that we can all agree that they are still very well written songs from any standpoint, but they are all still a huge change from the songs that are more commercial friendly that were on OM as well. Breaking the Silence, I don't believe in Love ect. ect...

My feelings about the record have evolved over time as I've matured. I was still a teen when this record came out. At the time I was beginning to explore prog a great deal more (I was a huge Gabriel era Genesis fan at that point in time), and I was a little suspect of commercially successful music. The displeasure that I felt with 80's pop music for the most part had jaded me by that time, and I was leary of anything that got played on the radio.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #292 on: July 11, 2017, 12:51:50 PM »
Empire is an album that I never get tired of spinning and that says a lot.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #293 on: July 11, 2017, 12:57:34 PM »
Time was running out on Queensryche. Empire would've had a much larger impact had it been released in 1988.
Mindcrime was not heavy metal, was not hair metal, was not thrash, was not all that progressive per se.  It was just good solid hard rock. No where to really compartmentalize it in 1988.

Really great statement. Because that's the thing with Queensryche. For sake of argument, let go of the heavy metal/hard rock monikers. With Rage, they were ahead of their time. With Mindcrime, I think it can be argued that they were right in the wheelhouse, maybe slightly highbrow because of the concept. With Empire, they hit with it right at the last high point for commercial guitar-driven rock before the more less polished form hit big. But following Empire, they were BEHIND the times a bit, and it plagued them ever since.

Samsara:  great post as usual.  Not arguing, just discussing, but (and you'd have no way to know this) my view of art is a little different than most.  I believe the artists' vision is the only thing that matters.   I can only say "I like this" or "I don't like this".  The only way you can say "good" or "bad" is in the distance the final product got from the artist's vision.   

To that end, if James Hetfield wanted to put out the closest thing he could to an AC/DC record, and did so, and oh-by-the-way, it went to number one and sold 30 million copies (sound familiar?) then it's an artistic statement and of pure integrity.   If Hetfield wanted to put out the sickest, heaviest, most vile metal record of all time, but ended up putting out The Black Album (which, while great, is not that), then that is selling out.   

It's why I have a problem with artists - won't name names - that are playing arenas to middle aged couples on date night while wearing "Iron Maiden" concert shirts.  That's not cool, that's showing that your music isn't where your heart is.   

After reading your posts now for a while, I do understand where you are coming from. And logically, I get your line of thinking. We disagree, I guess, because for me, it's the thought pattern behind how those decisions were made, and art that was created, come into play. And to be honest, none of us really knows, as we're not jacked into DeGarmo's or Hetfield's brains at the point where they moved forward with their muse to write the music.

But our difference (you and I) on how we view it, is that I believe the reason for the vision is the driving factor. You (I think) believe the vision itself is all that really matters. And if I am correct in that, I totally respect it. I just simply don't agree, and it makes (as you no doubt will agree -- ha ha ha) discussion a bit more difficult, because I think more people align with my perspective on the reason for the vision and line of thinking developing the vision as a driving point, rather than a more stark "vision is the ultimate factor" perspective you have. To be honest, it's helped me understand you more, knowing that, if I indeed understand it correctly.

Anyway, regardless, Empire was huge, and for damn good reasons.  :metal
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #294 on: July 11, 2017, 01:03:43 PM »
Not to be contrarian, but I kind of gently push back on the notion that Empire was a knowing commercial move and/or a cash grab.  If there are interviews to this effect, so be it, but to me, it was more of an organic move that paid off rather than some conscious effort to alienate the fan base.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that they were trying to alienate the fan base. If I gave that impression then I apologize.

However, I'm not sure that they could listen to the songs that they were producing for the record and not recognize that they were much more commercial friendly. I think that we can all agree that they are still very well written songs from any standpoint, but they are all still a huge change from the songs that are more commercial friendly that were on OM as well. Breaking the Silence, I don't believe in Love ect. ect...

My feelings about the record have evolved over time as I've matured. I was still a teen when this record came out. At the time I was beginning to explore prog a great deal more (I was a huge Gabriel era Genesis fan at that point in time), and I was a little suspect of commercially successful music. The displeasure that I felt with 80's pop music for the most part had jaded me by that time, and I was leary of anything that got played on the radio.

Well, two things.  One, I'm a Night Ranger fan, so "commercially successful music" never bothered me at all.   Two, I was (and am) a prog fan as well, so put it in this context:   Marillion had Misplaced Childhood in '85, a concept much like (in structure) O:M.   And they had a random, MASSIVE hit from it.  Then came Clutching At Straws, a much darker, more mid-tempo record, with the obligatory hit single - Incommunicado, Sugar Mice, take your pick - and yet it wasn't a sellout, in my mind.  It was just the logical extension of a band that wasn't going to repeat themselves.    I very much viewed Empire in that frame of reference, as if the album was a lusher version of O:M and broken into discrete songs not a suite.

It didn't hurt that I played the SHIT out of that record (and still do).  I'm with King on this one. 

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #295 on: July 11, 2017, 01:05:49 PM »

After reading your posts now for a while, I do understand where you are coming from. And logically, I get your line of thinking. We disagree, I guess, because for me, it's the thought pattern behind how those decisions were made, and art that was created, come into play. And to be honest, none of us really knows, as we're not jacked into DeGarmo's or Hetfield's brains at the point where they moved forward with their muse to write the music.

But our difference (you and I) on how we view it, is that I believe the reason for the vision is the driving factor. You (I think) believe the vision itself is all that really matters. And if I am correct in that, I totally respect it. I just simply don't agree, and it makes (as you no doubt will agree -- ha ha ha) discussion a bit more difficult, because I think more people align with my perspective on the reason for the vision and line of thinking developing the vision as a driving point, rather than a more stark "vision is the ultimate factor" perspective you have. To be honest, it's helped me understand you more, knowing that, if I indeed understand it correctly.

Brother, you have me pegged spot on and I agree with what you wrote (including the thought that probably more people adhere to your way of viewing this than mine).  But I'm resigned to that, and it makes for good conversation!   Thanks!

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #296 on: July 11, 2017, 01:07:00 PM »
I don't remember Clutching At Straws producing a hit. Don't think I saw anything on either MTV or the radio.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #297 on: July 11, 2017, 01:09:07 PM »
Empire is an album that I never get tired of spinning and that says a lot.

It just sounds MASSIVE. I have a fairly expensive sound system in my car. I put on Empire the other day, cranked it, and it just is so perfectly mixed and mastered, balance-wise. And the warmth of the record just makes it stand out. Mindcrime is well mixed, but because it is colder, it sounds thinner. I never get tired of listening to Empire. I skip a few tracks nowadays, just out of killing them for years, but it is an amazing piece of music. Goes to show when you have the right songs, with the right performances, at the right time, with the right production team and budget...man how cool must it have been it to make records back then.


Brother, you have me pegged spot on and I agree with what you wrote (including the thought that probably more people adhere to your way of viewing this than mine).  But I'm resigned to that, and it makes for good conversation!   Thanks!

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #298 on: July 11, 2017, 01:11:49 PM »
It does sound awesome. And I think that means something.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #299 on: July 11, 2017, 01:19:17 PM »
I don't remember Clutching At Straws producing a hit. Don't think I saw anything on either MTV or the radio.

Fair point; certainly no hits like "Kayleigh" or "Silent Lucidity".  I just meant that both Incommunicado and Sugar Mice kind of stood out from the rest of the record (moreso Incommunicado). 

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #300 on: July 11, 2017, 01:28:09 PM »
I enjoyed yet another write up Brian - good stuff!

For me personally, I remember that era well. By that time, I had become a big fan as I mentioned earlier, so I waited with baited breath for their new album. I remember Last Time in Paris getting a lot of airplay at the time (I think around the same time Don Dokken's Up From the Ashes was getting a lot of airplay too) and I loved the track. While it was different from O:M, that didn't phase me at all, any more than RFO and the EP were different from O:M - I loved it all.

However, the first few times I heard Empire (the song), it took a little while for me to get into it. It just struck me as a bit strange, and I couldn't put my finger on why. In any case, there was a massive music store that I remember had a huge display in the front window, preparing us fans for QR's upcoming new album. But the album cover was just soooo....simple. I didn't like it. Just very weird to me. The tri-ryche itself was cool, but I hated how it was so pixellated, and then the letters to "Empire" were in a weird building-block type of style. It just didn't seem right for a band like QR, especially given all the other album art they had up to that point (aside from the debut EP).

Nonetheless, I picked up the album soon after it was released and dug right into it. For the most part, I really liked everything on it. But for me, to this day, I've never been a big fan of Jet City Woman or Another Rainy Night - neither of them have ever done much for me, and with the former getting so much overplay, I won't mind if I never hear that song again. Silent Lucidity has become much the same way (overplay) altho I really enjoyed it initially. The two songs that really stand out to me as favorites, aside from the title track and Anybody Listening are Hand on Heart and One and Only. In particular I love everything about One and Only, both musically and lyrically. To me it's a shame that it's such an underrated track.

Finally, I remember being hyped to see QR live. And then one of my cousins just had to get married on the same day in the upper peninsula of Michigan! D'oh! Even more frustrating when I found out later that the show I would've gone to (Milwaukee) was one of the shows they filmed. Still one of my greatest regrets in terms of shows I missed. Ah well.

edit: Forgot to mention that I was surprised/disappointed to find that Last Time in Paris wasn't on Empire, but I eventually got over that too!   :P
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #301 on: July 11, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
But the album cover was just soooo....simple. I didn't like it. Just very weird to me. The tri-ryche itself was cool, but I hated how it was so pixellated, and then the letters to "Empire" were in a weird building-block type of style.

Yeah, the cover is kinda horrible. Luckily just with Iron Maiden's Dance of Death the music behind said cover is way better  :D
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #302 on: July 11, 2017, 01:45:00 PM »
I don't remember Clutching At Straws producing a hit. Don't think I saw anything on either MTV or the radio.

Fair point; certainly no hits like "Kayleigh" or "Silent Lucidity".  I just meant that both Incommunicado and Sugar Mice kind of stood out from the rest of the record (moreso Incommunicado).

Just me being an ass. ;D




@ Scott..Hand On Heart has really aged well. Not a fan of One And Only though.


Anybody Listening is awesome though.


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #303 on: July 11, 2017, 01:46:49 PM »
Just me being an ass. ;D

Fair point;



Saved you the trouble, man! ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #304 on: July 11, 2017, 01:48:36 PM »
I enjoyed yet another write up Brian - good stuff!

Thanks Scott!

Quote
For me personally, I remember that era well. By that time, I had become a big fan as I mentioned earlier, so I waited with baited breath for their new album. I remember Last Time in Paris getting a lot of airplay at the time (I think around the same time Don Dokken's Up From the Ashes was getting a lot of airplay too) and I loved the track. While it was different from O:M, that didn't phase me at all, any more than RFO and the EP were different from O:M - I loved it all.

However, the first few times I heard Empire (the song), it took a little while for me to get into it. It just struck me as a bit strange, and I couldn't put my finger on why. In any case, there was a massive music store that I remember had a huge display in the front window, preparing us fans for QR's upcoming new album. But the album cover was just soooo....simple. I didn't like it. Just very weird to me. The tri-ryche itself was cool, but I hated how it was so pixellated, and then the letters to "Empire" were in a weird building-block type of style. It just didn't seem right for a band like QR, especially given all the other album art they had up to that point (aside from the debut EP).

Nonetheless, I picked up the album soon after it was released and dug right into it. For the most part, I really liked everything on it. But for me, to this day, I've never been a big fan of Jet City Woman or Another Rainy Night - neither of them have ever done much for me, and with the former getting so much overplay, I won't mind if I never hear that song again. Silent Lucidity has become much the same way (overplay) altho I really enjoyed it initially. The two songs that really stand out to me as favorites, aside from the title track and Anybody Listening are Hand on Heart and One and Only. In particular I love everything about One and Only, both musically and lyrically. To me it's a shame that it's such an underrated track.

Finally, I remember being hyped to see QR live. And then one of my cousins just had to get married on the same day in the upper peninsula of Michigan! D'oh! Even more frustrating when I found out later that the show I would've gone to (Milwaukee) was one of the shows they filmed. Still one of my greatest regrets in terms of shows I missed. Ah well.

edit: Forgot to mention that I was surprised/disappointed to find that Last Time in Paris wasn't on Empire, but I eventually got over that too!   :P

Cool story. See, I had no idea "Last Time in Paris' existed. I had never heard it once, and didn't until well into the 1990s. And I agree about "One and Only." Great tune. One of the few after the EP that are credited to DeGarmo/Wilton alone.

My story with EMPIRE is a little personal, but it meant a lot to me. So, if you have followed my posts, you know I discovered QR in summer 1987 with Rage, became a massive fan with Mindcrime. Well, in June 1990, my family was completely uprooted and we moved to rural Pennsylvania. Suffice it to say, a kid who turned 14, from Long Island, now in the middle of Pennsylvania, having to start anew (again). It was a difficult time. The whole summer was brutal. But I kept waiting for news on Queensryche. And then, one day, I remember an MTV announcement that they'd be debuting the new video, "Empire," from Queensryche. It was like gold (it was the little things then).

I remember waiting by the TV, and finally seeing the video and hearing "my band" again, with something new, that I immediately loved with no hesitation. It was like a ray of light in a really difficult time for me. We lost cable shortly after that (wouldn't have it again until 1991, I think), but I managed to record the song on a tape, with an old tape recorder I had held against the TV speaker. It was like gold, and really held me over during a difficult period. That was all I had. I started 9th grade, and as you can imagine, some kid whose family was poor, starting school at a tough age with people who thought I talked funny, it was tough. We moved back to Long Island about a month into 9th grade. Spent like two months in one town, and then we settled in the town I'd graduate from right before Christmas. Thankfully, it was school district that I had been in previously. It was now Christmas 1990.

My parents were able to get me a single CD/cassette stereo boom box (AIWA brand, as I remember), and two CDs for Christmas. I got Empire and The Simpsons. The latter obviously was what it was, but YES, FINALLY, my own copy of Empire, on CD (my first CD). My Aunt got me Mindcrime (I had that on cassette) on CD that Christmas as well.

But I'll never forget just how much joy knowing Queensryche had another album out, and the first song being so dark and bad ass, brought me during a tough stretch for my fam. And when I finally got settled that year, and into 1991, it was nice to be surrounded by other kids who dug Queensryche just as much as me. Most of it due to Empire, but I didn't care. The record was an ice breaker for me, and a bit of a savior.

Fast forward to the end of that school year, and everyone was asking me if I was going to see Queensryche at Nassau Coliseum in July 1991. I wasn't. I was so bummed out. My parents wouldn't let me go, and although I was 15 by the time the show rolled around, they just wouldn't budge. It was a major downer when we started school in September 1991, in 10th grade, watching all my buddies walk around in Empire tour shirts and talking about how amazing the show was, and how the record was killer, and Mindcrime spectacular. Although it'd be another four years, my mom realized the error and made it up to me (by then the fam was in a little better position). But   I'll share that and my thoughts on PL when we get to that record...
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #305 on: July 11, 2017, 01:58:35 PM »
Awesome story!. Never knew you were in Pennsylvania for a bit.

Too bad you couldn't go to the show. I remember the days when my parents wouldn't let me go.





The Simpsons??  :lol
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50458.0
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #306 on: July 11, 2017, 02:44:26 PM »
Great story, Sam! Without going into great detail, I can say that one of the reasons that I'm still on this earth is in great part due to music. It's been there when nothing else seemingly has. Every range of emotion can and does get expressed. I think that this is especially true when you're a fan of music with progressive tendencies. I'd be the last one to try to speak for the forum as a whole, but I'm willing to bet that almost every member of this place could relate to your story in one way or another.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #307 on: July 11, 2017, 02:55:43 PM »
Listening to Empire right now.  Such a great record.

Empire was the first record I was waiting for after becoming a fan.  I remember taping Headbanger's Ball to see the video for Empire.  I also remember my parents not letting me buy it right away for some reason (well, I don't think they were really a fan of the story of Mindcrime) and I think I ended up waiting until after my 13th birthday to get it.  Once I got it, I'm pretty sure I wore that cassette out.  I remember telling my brother Silent Lucidity would be a huge hit, and since he wasn't a QR fan in the slightest, he disagreed, calling the song Violent Stupidity  ::).  He was ten at the time, and big into Motley Crue, so what did he know?  Anyway, I still enjoy listening to this record, and I think it's a great example of how a band can be accessible without selling out. 
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #308 on: July 11, 2017, 04:11:39 PM »
But the album cover was just soooo....simple. I didn't like it. Just very weird to me. The tri-ryche itself was cool, but I hated how it was so pixellated, and then the letters to "Empire" were in a weird building-block type of style.

Yeah, the cover is kinda horrible. Luckily just with Iron Maiden's Dance of Death the music behind said cover is way better  :D

I always liked the cover, in an understated way, quite classy and sci fi (at least for the time). At least it was meant to be pixelated and not just a cheap knock off.

I have some sort of promo cd with a 3D pop up version of the cover, which I've never seen anywhere else.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #309 on: July 11, 2017, 05:01:57 PM »
Silent Lucidity was my introduction to Queensryche, but I think it was still a couple years before I bought the CD, thanks to a friend's wife who loved them and always had them on when I was at their place. 

To me, Empire is a great collection of songs.  It doesn't flow like some of their other albums - you could almost reassemble most of the album randomly and the running order would still work - but that's okay.  Della Brown is one of their most underrated songs ever, and the title track and Anybody Listening? are hard to beat.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #310 on: July 11, 2017, 06:41:44 PM »
Great writeup.

Love this album. Sometimes I have a hard time deciding whether I like Mindcrime or Empire better. Mindcrime has the full album experience, but Empire is just slightly more consistent. The only song I don't really care for is One And Only.

Della Brown is great. I dig the minimalist vibe, just a great groove and some of Tate's most immersive lyrics. I suppose Silent Lucidity is the other "controversial" tune, but I love that one too. I wasn't sure what to think of it at first, but it quickly grew on me.

Lots of talk about the Pink Floyd influence, which is deserved, but what about Rush? I hear a lot of Rush on this album, especially in the first two tracks. Similar rhythmic parts, similar bass driven grooves, similar keyboard sounds. I hear Pink Floyd on all their albums, but this is the first time I hear a lot of Rush too.

This is one of the few albums where the singles and the deep cuts are equally good. I love all the singles. Already talked about Silent Lucidity, but the other 5 I never tire of, even though a few of them are somewhat overplayed.

Interesting that Metallica is being brought up, I never considered that these came out around the same time. I hate The Black Album though. I wasn't there, so I didn't have any connection to the band or any sort of loyalty to their thrash roots, I just don't think the songs are good. The more commercial sound fit Queensryche better IMO. They already had a knack for great songwriting and were showing signs of it as early as Rage For Order. It's difficult to argue against it being an intentional move in a more commercial direction (the fact that the producers had to persuade the band to include Silent Lucidity because of its commercial potential is hard to ignore) but sometimes the best commercial decision is also the best artistic one, and I would say that's the case with Empire.

Also glad you brought up the remaster Samsara. I was wondering if it was just me, but all the Queensryche remasters sound awful to me. I'm not even really an audiophile and I hear it. One of the worst remastering jobs out there, even the Iron Maiden remasters were better.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #311 on: July 11, 2017, 06:57:48 PM »


Della Brown is great. I dig the minimalist vibe

I suppose we'll discuss this with HITNF but this backs up the fact that HITNF's problem was the songs themselves, and NOT the approach they took.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #312 on: July 11, 2017, 06:58:02 PM »
Just heard Empire for the first time. I knew Silent Lucidity and Jet City Woman but haven't heard any of the other songs. There are some really killer songs on here and the record is the best so far. Della Brown is easily the best song on the album IMO. I think the only thing that irked me was the spoken part in "Empire" the song.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #313 on: July 11, 2017, 07:46:40 PM »
'Anybody Listening?' from MTV 'Unplugged'.  Great to see the camaraderie before and after (sad to think of how things changed).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DBVql6-ZXw

A band at their zenith.  They could kick axe and melodic, 'easy' and melodic, with a style and image that was looked at in such a positive light by the public. 

The performance by 'Geoff Tate:  Voices and 'No' whistles':  I'm a big Freddie Mercury fan, as well as Steve Perry (up through 'Frontiers').  O:M and this album put him on their level to me (and made me wish Queen would have put out something like this during the 80s).

Briefly, saw them in Auburn Hills for this tour (superb).  The album is in my Top 25, and the music is timeless.  Hasn't changed a bit.  Back when it came out, I did have to remove 'One And Only', and, instead of ending the A side of a cassette, I had to move the title track to the B side of the 60 minute tape for the album to fit (still no car CD player).  Certainly gave it a different 'feel' then, and just seemed as a better fit there than as an album side closer.

Did anyone buy the vinyl version?  I never think of this as being a double album.

I think back to the days when I'd crank up 'Best I Can' on my way to work at 545 AM, try to maintain that attitude when things weren't going so well, and then, at a much lower volume,  play 'Anybody Listening?' or 'Silent Lucidity' to relax to on my way home at 10 PM. 

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 09:43:50 PM by DragonAttack »
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: EMPIRE (1990)
« Reply #314 on: July 11, 2017, 07:54:09 PM »
Just heard Empire for the first time. I knew Silent Lucidity and Jet City Woman but haven't heard any of the other songs. There are some really killer songs on here and the record is the best so far. Della Brown is easily the best song on the album IMO. I think the only thing that irked me was the spoken part in "Empire" the song.

Not to go off topic, but wouldn't it be great to hear any album you love for the first time again?

Empire is great. I remember getting the cassette and replaying Silent Lucidity numerous times, it was just so gorgeous. Unfortunately radio killed that feeling. Anybody Listening may be my favorite QR song of all time.
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