Author Topic: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Cabaret and D2C (2010-2012)  (Read 21276 times)

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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Live in Tokyo (1985)
« Reply #140 on: June 17, 2017, 02:05:25 AM »
I've never heard these live recordings, I'm not that keen on live records in general anymore. But maybe I will look up some of the mentioned bootlegs.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Live in Tokyo (1985)
« Reply #141 on: June 17, 2017, 12:17:52 PM »
Just saw this thread. I know very little of QR so I'll be following and listening at the same time.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2017, 08:58:49 AM »
Rage for Order



Vocals/Keys: Geoff Tate
Guitars/Vocals; Chris DeGarmo
Guitars/Vocals: Michael Wilton
Bass/Vocals: Eddie Jackson
Drums: Scott Rockenfield

Additional keyboards by Neil Kernon

I think it is safe to say that Rage for Order is where Queensr˙che got its most “progressive,” at least in the sense of how the word is defined today. Incorporating a number of time changes, keyboard work, use of samples, and experimental guitar work, Rage for Order ended up influencing bands of note in both the progressive and gothic subgenres of hard rock and metal.

Writing for Rage for Order commenced in 1985, shortly after the tour for The Warning concluded. In an interview with Neil Kernon about Rage for Order I conducted a few years ago, he said Queensr˙che knew the sound they wanted for the record from the very start – “cold, hard, and cruel.” While most of the material was written and arranged before Kernon got involved, he said pre-production took a while because the label wanted a record that had some legs for a radio campaign.

That could have created problems, given the band's blossoming progressive tendencies, but Kernon mediated between the band and label. He explained to Queensryche that not everything had to be boiled down to less than four minutes, but they also had to have a few that fit that mold and the label's expectations.

Mission accomplished.

The band bought into the idea, and Rage for Order ended up with a bunch of shorter cuts, without sacrificing the song in order to make it happen. Aggressive tracks such as “Walk in the Shadows,” “The Whisper,” and “Surgical Strike” clock in under four minutes, yet they maintain musical complexities that set them apart from some of the band's earlier work. In addition, some of the more “epic” songs on Rage for Order, such as “Neue Regel” and “London” are only slightly longer than the aggressive cuts, but contain a distinctly powerful and magestic vibe that make them feel longer than they really are.

The music on Rage for Order is rightly lauded by fans as complex and dark, with those progressive and gothic leanings shinging through. But it's the lyrical theme that really set the stage for Queensr˙che's ascension with Operation: Mindcrime a few years later. According to Tate, while not a concept album, Rage for Order has a three-tiered lyrical theme running through the songs: Personal, Political, and Technological. The album title is also a contradiction itself: Rage and Order.

For the sake of brevity, I won't go through each song and highlight how each contains pieces of the theme. But if you sit down with the lyrics, listen to the record, and pay attention to things, you'll easily spot all the references.

Of note, however, is “Screaming in Digital,” Kernon's favorite track on the record, and a song that is a conversation between an artificial intelligence (son) and the human (father) who created it. The song encapsulates what Rage for Order is all about, lyrically, and is consider by many to be sequel (some make an argument for prequel) to “NM 156” on The Warning. Queensr˙che also played the tracks back-to-back over the years, cementing that theory.

“Screaming in Digital” straddles all three themes on Rage for Order, and creates arguably the record's strongest statement, despite it being one of Rage's shortest cuts (3:39). According to Kernon, apparently when the band came up with the initial idea for it, it was even shorter, about 2:30. Kernon said he immediately heard the potential in the track and encouraged the band to flesh it out a bit so they could use it. The demo Queensr˙che recorded for it is actually the same length as the album version, a little less polished, and significantly creepier.

Queensr˙che, at the behest of EMI Records, also included a cover song on the record – Canadian songwriter Lisa Dal Bello's “Gonna Get Close to You.” According to Kernon, the band narrowed the choices to that tune, and Dal Bello's “Wait for an Answer,” and went with the former due to its darker vibe. Heart went on to record the latter a year or so later. “Gonna Get Close to You” ended up being one of the singles from Rage for Order, and the only video the band shot for the album.

The band also recorded “Scarborough Fair” from Simon & Garfunkel during this time period. The tune wouldn't appear on the album, but was resurrected as a b-side in 1990, appearing on the CD single for “Empire” in 1990. “Prophecy,” which was tagged  onto later releases of the EP, was also recorded during the Rage for Order sessions.

There were a few leftover songs that were demoed by Queensryche for Rage for Order that have never seen a public release: The title track, “The Dream” and “From the Darkside.” The title track featured a very pre-Queensryche-like Geoff Tate vocal delivery. Geoff showed his penchant for rap/spoken type of vocal here. The tune was scrapped, but pretty much everything except the verses and chorus were resurrected as an instrumental (“Anarchy-X”) on Queensr˙che's next album, Operation: Mindcrime.

“The Dream” was only partially fleshed out, clocking in at just over 2:30. It has a big chorus, and probably could have been turned into a decent full tune on Rage for Order. It absolutely sounds like a song that could fit comfortably next to “The Whisper” or “Chemical Youth.”

“From the Darkside,” however, sounds like a fully completed tune, and has a length of just over five minutes. It has a bit of a MYTH (Tate's band prior to Queensr˙che) feel to it, and as a result, it is certainly one of the quirkier cuts Queensr˙che has ever done. The verses are more spoken-word from Tate, but it works in the context of the song, and the album's three-layered theme. The verses contain a pretty basic riff with an acoustic guitar underneath. The chorus is the title of the song, with “ohhhhh oh ohhhhh” repeated afterward, with no real instrumentation. The solo, however, really captures the dark mood of the song.

In my opinion, it is unfortunate that “From the Darkside” was never properly recorded. While it was certainly different from the rest of the songs on the record, and given the amount of mid-tempo and ballads on Rage for Order, it made sense not to move forward on this one, it really could have added to the depth of the album.

In regard to how the record was recorded, the drums for Rage for Order were captured in an office park in Bellevue, Wash., using a mobile recording truck (Le Mobile) from Montreal. Kernon had used the technique and the truck previously with Dokken and other bands. The idea was to get a “big, bashy” sound from the drums. Vocals and the other instruments were recorded in Vancouver, Canada, and Glendale, California.

Fun fact – Neil and the band recorded a ton of their own samples for the album, including squealing tires in a parking lot and some interesting vocals from Wilton. Check it out here – http://anybodylistening.net/3.html.

Release-wise, the cover art has always been an interesting conversation among fans. There are a few different versions. The original featured a “blue” ring on the cover with the words “Rage for Order.” Subsequent releases have seen the color change, from a marble black, to a flat black. The original blue one made it more difficult to see what was written, which was the reason for the change. The original “blue ring” vinyl is somewhat rare. But the most rare is the blue ring CD version of the record.

Check out the cover art here: http://anybodylistening.net/ragefororder.html (examples of vinyl and cassette)

In 2003, EMI remastered the Queensr˙che catalog, including Rage for Order. I don't recommend it to audiophiles, because it was redlined (as were all the 2003 reissues and subsequent repackages), but the Rage remaster does help boost up some of the effects so that they are audible. Kernon noted to me that the initial pressing of the record was “quiet” and “bass-lite,” which the remaster addressed. It contains four bonus tracks: live versions of “Walk in the Shadows” and “The Killing Words,” an acoustic remix of “I Dream in Infrared,” and the 12” single version of “Gonna Get Close to You.”

From a live perspective, Queensr˙che opened for AC/DC, Bon Jovi and Ozzy Osbourne during the Rage for Order tour. The tour lasted from July 31, 1986 until late February 1987, concluding with a string of East Coast headline dates on Long Island, N.Y. The band also did a short headline tour in October 1986 of the southwest and west coast of the United States before their slate of opening gigs for Bon Jovi in November 1986. In what may be a surprise to some, Chris DeGarmo booked most of these headline gigs for QR, as the band was in-between management at the time. Tate's old (and future) bandmate, Randy “Random Damage” Gane also performed keyboards with the band for parts of the tour, playing off-stage.

In addition, because, well, it's always been “a thing,” yes, Queensr˙che adopted a bit of an 80s glam image for he album, and some of the support gigs. If I recall correctly, the band just didn't feel right trying to adopt an image that didn't suit them, and quickly ditched it. (Good call. Ha ha ha.)

Unfortunately for Queensr˙che, and despite its influence on many artists, Rage for Order wasn't very successful from EMI's standpoint (it didn't receive much airplay anywhere). While it continued the very slow burn of upward album sales (remember, this was the 1980s, so it was the sales that really meant something, as opposed to first week debut numbers), Queensryche struggled to find a mainstream audience and really become a substantial headline act. That would change in the next few years, however...

Samsara's top-3 from Rage for Order: “Screaming in Digital,” “Neue Regel,” “Walk in the Shadows.”

Next up...Operation: Mindcrime...
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2017, 10:06:05 AM »
When I finally got this one (it was the final piece of their official discography that I added after Empire), what initially stood out to me is how different it sounded, while also sounding right at home in the band's discography, if that makes sense.  I vaguely recalled Walk in the Shadows from the Building Empires tour, but the rest of the album had been a bit of a mystery up to that point.  Other than London, I don't recall which songs initially made an impression.  I do remember not initially caring for Gonna Get Close To You.  It had such a quirky vibe.  But I didn't really pay attention to the lyrics and didn't understand what they were going for, so it just seemed odd. 

But this album was a slow grower.  The Promised Land tour helped quite a bit in that regard also by featuring some additional songs:  Neue Regel and Screaming. 

Gonna Get Close To You is still probably my least favorite tune on the album.  But time has been kind to this album in my eyes, and I really do find myself really liking all the tracks from it.  My top three would probably be:  Screaming In Digital, Neue Regel, and London.  (I was SO bummed when Geoff butchered the verse immediately after the guitar solo of London on the second night of the Live Evolution gigs--that is SUCH a powerful part of the song)  But again, any song from this album is a welcome listen.

At the time this album came out, the band weren't on my radar at all.  I think this is the team when I first started seeing adds for them in Circus and Hit Parader, but I didn't pay much attention.  And I don't ever remember seeing the video for Gonna Get Close To You.  So, unfortunately, I had no knowledge of this album at the time it was released.  Hard to say how I would have reacted to it if I had heard it at the time.  What I was mainly into during this time was guitar-driven hard rock.  Yeah, you had bands using a bit of synthesizer here and there to add a bit of texture to songs.  And bands like Van Halen had taken it further and put the keyboard more at the forefront here and there.  But it was an instrument that I felt wasn't really used properly in the rock genre.  Then you had some of the new wave and alternative bands that were very keyboard heavy and sometimes managed to use keys in a very complex way.  I was looking for a band that could bridge that gap and write complex music that sometimes incorporated complex layers of keys as a counterpoint to heavy guitar (I obviously found what I was looking for much later in Dream Theater).  So, on one hand, this album should have been just what I was looking for.  On the other hand, I'm not sure it fit my expectations for what I was looking for at the time, and if I heard it, I very well might have just dismissed it as being too "weird" and "out there."  It's hard to say, looking back now.  What I can say is that the album definitely did make an impression once I discovered it years later in the early '90s.

More to say when we get to Mindcrime.  That was the album that got me, although after the fact.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2017, 10:37:05 AM »
I remember my first listen to this album very well. I was very excited about it after being a huge fan of The Warning. You can imagine my shock. I was still quite young, and my ability to appreciate music was still early in it's development. Upon seeing the album, I had imagined a sequel to their previous efforts. The record just seemed so strange and out of left field to me at the time. The truth is that I wasn't quite mature enough at the time to really appreciate what I was hearing.

Fast forward to about a year later, and the occasional attempt to listen to the record all the way through, it finally clicked with me and I fell in love. As with The Warning, when this album clicked it had the ability to fire my imagination. The songs could tell stories, and this set the band apart from the standard fare of the day. The production also set it far apart from most other bands of the time. While it's true that the album is light on the low-end, it seemed to be very "crisp" for as many layers as there were on the recording.

I now rank this as my 2nd favorite QR album.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2017, 12:18:33 PM »
I've tried, but I just can't get into "Gonna Get Close to You".  And that's probably the only song from EP-Promised Land that I just don't have much interest in.  Overall, RFO is just such a cool strange weird album, but still kick ass.

Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #146 on: June 19, 2017, 02:34:38 PM »
I remember my first listen to this album very well. I was very excited about it after being a huge fan of The Warning. You can imagine my shock. I was still quite young, and my ability to appreciate music was still early in it's development. Upon seeing the album, I had imagined a sequel to their previous efforts. The record just seemed so strange and out of left field to me at the time. 

I felt the same way. I was so into the EP/Warning, that when RFO came out, I was like WTF?? The only tracks I liked were Walk In The Shadows, Surgical Strike, and I Will Remember. Obviously they are the tracks closer to Warning material.

I wasn't so thrown off by the band pics. I figured it was just a marketing thing. But wasn't this supposed to be a metal band? I kept wondering WTF are they going to do next?? I just didn't know what to think of QR at this point.

I had tix to Ozzy/Metallica in April '86. The show was cancelled/postponed until September, and when Ozzy came back, QR was opening. I actually ended up selling my ticket and didn't even bother. I didn't care for The Ultimate Sin, and had no idea what to feel about RFO. I knew I didn't care for the majority of the album.


I will say that this album has really aged well for me. For me, it's still miles behind Warming/O:M, but with each successive album QR put out after Empire, RFO continued to improve in the standings. I like it. A Lot.

As far as Gonna Get Close To You, I actually think Tate sells it pretty good. The guy is a natural creep. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline BanksD

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2017, 02:47:12 PM »
This isn't my favorite Queensryche album, and it took a long time for me to warm up to it but man when it finally did it was amazing. This one comes in right below The Warning and Operation Mindcrime for me. My favorite tracks are: Walk In The Shadows, Neue Rgel, The Whisper, Screaming In Digital, and Surgical Strike.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2017, 02:58:09 PM »
I was just re-listening to the RFO/Warning demos.  Why they didn't clean up those songs and put them on the 2003 RFO reissue seems like a lost opportunity.  The bonus songs they ended up putting on RFO seemed like a half ass effort.  I definitely didn't need a second version of "Gonna Get Close to You" lol

Out of the bonus songs I listened to, "The Dream" and "Flames Keep Rising" are the standout tracks.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2017, 03:14:40 PM »
I was just re-listening to the RFO/Warning demos.  Why they didn't clean up those songs and put them on the 2003 RFO reissue seems like a lost opportunity.  The bonus songs they ended up putting on RFO seemed like a half ass effort.  I definitely didn't need a second version of "Gonna Get Close to You" lol

Out of the bonus songs I listened to, "The Dream" and "Flames Keep Rising" are the standout tracks.

A lot of time people mistake MYTH songs as QR demos, and accidentally label them as such (given Tate's voice, it isn't a surprise). The latter is a MYTH song, not Queensryche. :) MYTH had a bunch of really cool demos. I have a slate of them somewhere. Kelly Gray has all of that stuff. A literal treasure trove of Seattle metal from the late 70s and early 80s.

The three leftover Queensryche-written songs from Rage are The Dream, From the Darkside, and the title track.

For me, Rage for Order was my first exposure to Queensryche. Summer of 1987. A friend's brother was much older than us, and a headbanger. He saw Queensryche perform in early 1987 (one of the L'Amour gigs) and got a copy of Rage for Order. He didn't live at home, so when he came back to visit, he dubbed my buddy a copy, which I then dubbed. I was HUGE of Fifth Angel at the time, and I remember putting the dubbed copy of Rage into my Walkman that summer, and being blown away at the first song, and some of the others. But it didn't quite capture me at the time. I liked it, but Queensryche was squarely #2 in my book at the time. But with each passing month I got into it more...

And that story continues in the next album (as I assume for most of us).
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2017, 03:38:24 PM »
So I'd had The Warning for a good while, and really liked it. My mate and I went to the local record shop as he had some cash and wanted to buy something. Remember this was long before we new every little thing about our favourite bands and albums would sneak up on you.

Well, we find RFO has been released. I told him how awesome TW was and he bought it. We took it back to his place and he put it on. Well, he hated it, and I admit it wasn't what I was expecting.

Anyway, I bought it off him because I felt responsible. And as I played it a few more times it just blew me away. I loved that cold, stern sound, and the little noises and voices in the background.

It was top 10 in my top 50 and I limited bands to only two albums as a maximum.

I never tire of this album.

And Samsara, no mention of the vampire concept? 😀😀😀

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2017, 05:05:47 PM »
Rage for Order is awesome. Easily my  2nd favorite QR album, behind only Promised Land.

The atmosphere in songs like The Killing Words (those verses are  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy) and I Dream in Infrared is out of this world.

Plus, this is their best sounding album of the 80s.  By far.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2017, 05:36:42 PM »

And Samsara, no mention of the vampire concept? 😀😀😀

There's no vampire concept, per se, but some of the lyrics are inspired by Anne Rice's work from the time period.  ;)
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2017, 05:44:56 PM »
Rage was their third release.  D2C was the third from the most recent.  Vampires suck blood.  D2C sucks.  Connection!
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #154 on: June 19, 2017, 06:03:06 PM »
Rage was their third release.  D2C was the third from the most recent.  Vampires suck blood.  D2C sucks.  Connection!

Wow, now there's an argument with teeth.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #155 on: June 19, 2017, 07:00:50 PM »
After being initially disappointed with The Warning, and then seeing "the look" they had adopted, I admit to not even paying attention to the album at first.    Didn't buy it, didn't care.   I was *DEEP* into heavy, thrash, METAL phase.    Basically, between mid-85 and mid-88, I don't think I bought much of anything that was on a major label unless it came from "the big 4".   And anything from Metal Blade, Combat, or Megaforce Records was almost nearly an automatic buy.    Venom, Slayer, Destruction, Sodom, Kreator....etc...etc...  Queensryche was not even on my radar. 

But I think sometime in the spring of 1987, my cousin had a cassette of RFO sitting around, and I asked if I could borrow it to see what they were up to.   And somehow, the cerebral part of me that still listened to and adored Rush got tapped into....and I was HOOKED. 

This was THE album that officially won me over, and I became a full on "Queensryche fanboy".    I had known about them before, and liked some of their stuff.   But this was different.   I've heard it said that in some ways, this is their first album, and I tend to agree.   Front to back amazing.   Every song is amazing (even Gonna Get Close to You).    The album is so good that I even like the single.  (very rare for me for any album by anyone)   

They are all amazing, but if I had a gun to my head:

Neue Regal
Screaming in Digital
The Whisper
London
I Dream in Infrared
I Will Remember
Gonna Get Close to You
Surgical Strike
Walk in the Shadows
The Killing Words
Chemical Youth (We Are Rebellion)

(man, that list was hard)
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #156 on: June 19, 2017, 07:16:03 PM »
Scott is awesome on The Whisper.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #157 on: June 19, 2017, 07:29:19 PM »
I think "The Whisper" is the bands most underrated tune

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #158 on: June 19, 2017, 07:53:01 PM »
London and Screaming in Digital were two I loved a lot and felt a bit underrated. 

Offline Podaar

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #159 on: June 19, 2017, 07:54:40 PM »
I listened to it today for the first time in decades. I dig it!

Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #160 on: June 19, 2017, 08:04:09 PM »
London and Screaming in Digital were two I loved a lot and felt a bit underrated.

Ha! London is one of my least favorite tunes in the EP-Empire era. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #161 on: June 19, 2017, 08:20:18 PM »
London and Screaming in Digital were two I loved a lot and felt a bit underrated.

Ha! London is one of my least favorite tunes in the EP-Empire era. ;D

Just shows the strength of the bands material back then.

I think the Live Evolution version of London is what made me really like it more.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #162 on: June 19, 2017, 08:20:47 PM »
Forgot to mention that this is still my all time favorite QR album.  PL is a close second (I've nicknamed PL "Rage for Order with a budget"....I think PL has an extremely similar vibe to it.  And they *almost* recaptured the RFO magic....but not quite.  Lack of band cohesion and DeGarmo suddenly having a bit too much control to be balanced)
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #163 on: June 19, 2017, 08:24:26 PM »
I've nicknamed PL "Rage for Order with a budget

I've nicknamed PL Rage For Order with a suck it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #164 on: June 19, 2017, 08:31:40 PM »
I've nicknamed PL "Rage for Order with a budget

I've nicknamed PL Rage For Order with a suck it.

Haha, no Tim, PL is awesome.

Offline Mosh

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #165 on: June 19, 2017, 09:43:30 PM »
I like Rage For Order but not as much as the previous album. There are a lot more soundscapes and experimental things happening that would be better refined on the next albums, but all the midtempo songs make things seem a little monotonous. The few uptempo songs (Surgical Strike, for example) that are on the album don't have the same impact as En Force or Queen Of the Reich.

Still a good album. Love the opening tune as well as The Whisper and I actually really dig Gonna Close To You. Love the creepy vibe on there. I kinda see RFO as a necessary stepping stone to Mindcrime. There's more adventurous stuff on here compared to Warning, but the songs aren't there yet IMO.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #166 on: June 20, 2017, 08:25:44 AM »
I think "The Whisper" is the bands most underrated tune

It's very underrated for sure. I believe that one is entirely penned by DeGarmo, and was pretty challenging to sing following the 1980s for Geoff. It's sung entirely at the near top of his register. That is probably why they didn't play it again until 2005. And when they did, Tate sang the lower harmony as the lead. I was happy to hear it again, so I didn't care much. But my wife (who is a singer) was disgusted. When current Queensryche did it live back 2012-2014, Todd really nailed it. He metaled it up a bit, and lost a bit of the creepiness, which was a bummer, but man, did he knock it out of the park. He even went higher in some parts. I remember in Tempe, Az., Dec. 2012, we were talking with him after the show, and I asked him about taking it higher - he laughed and said "yeah, I wanted to have some fun with it." ha ha ha. So it was nice to hear it sung in the right range, even if the creepy vocal tone isn't there with Todd (his voice is naturally thinner than Tate's, so it doesn't come off quite the same way. But Todd still owned it. Great rendition).

Forgot to mention that this is still my all time favorite QR album.  PL is a close second (I've nicknamed PL "Rage for Order with a budget"....I think PL has an extremely similar vibe to it.  And they *almost* recaptured the RFO magic....but not quite.  Lack of band cohesion and DeGarmo suddenly having a bit too much control to be balanced)

Interesting way to put it. I agree to an extent. The solo in "Lady Jane," and some of the darker moments scream RFO for sure. As for the reasons not to recapture the vibe, I don't think they were attempting to. We'll get to it more with PL, but the b-sides to that record (Real World, Dirty Lil Secret) are absolutely more Empire-sounding. I think (just me surmising here) they weren't quite sure where to go with the record at first. I think it was less about band cohesion, and more about indecisiveness on direction. but again, just a gut feeling. And after re-reading, maybe we're saying the same thing. lol

I like Rage For Order but not as much as the previous album. There are a lot more soundscapes and experimental things happening that would be better refined on the next albums, but all the midtempo songs make things seem a little monotonous. The few uptempo songs (Surgical Strike, for example) that are on the album don't have the same impact as En Force or Queen Of the Reich.

Still a good album. Love the opening tune as well as The Whisper and I actually really dig Gonna Close To You. Love the creepy vibe on there. I kinda see RFO as a necessary stepping stone to Mindcrime. There's more adventurous stuff on here compared to Warning, but the songs aren't there yet IMO.

Great post. I think the more aggressive songs on Rage don't get nearly the love they should. Chemical Youth and Surgical Strike are really good songs. I also prefer The Warning to RFO, but I have a tremendous respect for the experimental aspect of RFO. Over time, my appreciation for the songwriting has gone up. The bad thing about RFO to me is that the production sounds dated. I mean really dated. But the songs are a lot more forward-thinking.

I asked Kernon when I interviewed him if he ever considered looking into doing a 5.1 remix of the record to really spruce up the sound, and he said he'd totally be into it. He was in touch with Scott at the time on other things, so I am sure they talked about it. But one of the key things with Queensryche is -- DeGarmo and Tate were the more 'go getters' of the band. If there is a project with the band, the other three principals kind of laid back a bit and didn't want to do that sort of thing (this is coming from a couple of people that knew them). So I'm speculating that a 5.1 mix of the record likely wouldn't happen, just given the personalities of the current band members.

It sucks, honestly. I was hoping that at some point, DeGarmo might want to do some of this stuff and approach the band about him taking control of some of these projects with the back catalog (sorta how Steve Perry did some stuff behind the scenes for Journey a few years back in regard to live recordings of the band), and work as a go-between, between the band and the Tates on projects like a 5.1 of Rage, or tweaks to The Warning. But it hasn't happened, and I think the ship has sailed.

But Rage absolutely set the table for the next three records from QR...
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #167 on: June 21, 2017, 05:49:17 AM »
This is were it’s at, this is the most experimental and most varied QR record. And Rage For Order (and to a slightly lesser degree Operation Mindcrime) is why QR is considered progressive metal. Surprising that they show such creativity and maturity on only their second full-length record.

I liked Rage For Order from the beginning, but then I came backwards from Mindcrime and was used to a little bit progressiveness in their music. If I had known them from The Warning/EP on, I’m not sure if I would have readily accepted this record as being great.

Geoff here sings better (imo) than before but still is not at the top of his game, too quacky sometimes for my liking.

My favorite tracks are (not in order): Walk In The Shadows, I Dream In Infrared, Gonna Get Close To You, London and I Will Remember (the precursor to Silent Lucidity).

Gonna Get Close To You: I love this track and especially the quirky vibe. It has such a great arrangement and unusual guitar work, and one of Geoff’s finest vocal performances. You can hear the madness and the creepiness right there. Probably because, as TAC mentioned, Tate is creepy, so it was natural for him . :biggrin:  Fits the quirky vibe of the song and the dark theme of the album perfectly. I never heard the original version by Dalbello so I don’t know how much QR made this song their own. But as I said, it fits perfectly on the record, and I'm surprised that so many don’t seem to like it.

Neue Regel: Interesting track and funny how Tate gets the accentuation completely wrong. :biggrin:

Overall this is a really great record, probably second in my personal ranking after Operation Mindcrime, although sometimes Empire takes that spot.

Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #168 on: June 21, 2017, 06:17:22 AM »
If I had known them from The Warning/EP on, I’m not sure if I would have readily accepted this record as being great.
 

Right. Not that there was anything wrong with RFO per se, but it was quite a jarring departure from the type of band I thought Queensryche was.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline romdrums

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #169 on: June 21, 2017, 06:57:02 AM »
Rage was my first QR record.  I think I was 11 or 12 when I got it, so that would have put it somewhere around 1988 or 1989.  Mindcrime was already out, but for some reason, I wanted to get Rage.  I certainly wasn't disappointed.  I loved everything about the record.  I actually got it on cassette, so there was no lyric sheet or photos (I didn't know what they looked like on that record until a few years later).  Given that I grew up in a prog rock household (my dad was a big Genesis and ELP fan), Rage was right in my wheelhouse.   I had discovered Metallica around that same time, so I was on a pretty steady diet of Metallica and Queensryche through much of 1989 and 1990.  I remember going back and getting the Warning before moving up to Mindcrime and I remember being surprised at just how different sounding those two records were, but I loved them both.  Neue Regel and Screaming in Digital were my favorites, and still are.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #170 on: June 21, 2017, 07:12:56 AM »
I'm pretty sure that I got RFO around the same time that I got the EP and Warning, maybe less than a year before I saw them on the Q2K tour in 1999. 

I always gravitated towards the heavier songs on the album - Walk in the Shadows, Whisper, Surgical Strike and Chemical Youth.  Later on, I got into more of the other songs.  With the exception of Gonna Get Close to You, I there really aren't any songs that I actively dislike, though London isn't really my cup of tea. 

Fun fact:  Neil Kernon used to hang out at the Perpetual Motion/PMX:2 forum (https://pmx2.krose.org/) and post as NK.  He would often answer questions and share anecdotes about Queensryche and RFO. 

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #171 on: June 21, 2017, 07:23:35 AM »
Not really following this thread, and I'm one of the many who completely lost interest in Queensryche post 1997 or even earlier, but I have to join in the praise for Rage of Order. The perfect lead-up to their magnum opus and a very great record, it showed a band clearly maturing and progressing and the best was yet to come.

Walk in the Shadows, I Dream in Infrared, The Whisper, The Killing Words, I will Remember... all fantastic songs!!!

Offline T-ski

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #172 on: June 21, 2017, 08:48:57 AM »
R4O was my second QR album after Mindcrime.  Needless to say, I was a bit perplexed by what I was hearing especially after immersing myself in Mindcrime for quite a long time.

I was not a fan initially, but through the years I came to appreciate just what they put together on this album. 

Til this day though, "I Will Remember" is one of my least favorite QR songs.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #173 on: June 21, 2017, 06:28:57 PM »
So Following this thread I listened to the debut ep and the warning and it was really good. I only knew "Real World" and "Silent Lucidity" as well as O:M. I didnt really care for the debut ep but The Warning was really solid, im surprised how much I liked it considering how much I didn't like O:M.

Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Rage for Order (1986)
« Reply #174 on: June 21, 2017, 06:32:04 PM »
I didn't realize not liking O:M was even an option.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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