Discovering genesis and need your help

[ori.elias5]

when I go through a new band discography it's like a triumph: I am dragging the process to enjoy the most of it: the first discovery is also the most thrilling so I put a lot of meaning for listening to an album for the first time.

I don't spoil it by listening to the good tracks of the band but save it to the first listen of the album.

I love starting from the weaker albums and save the best for last.
this way I have always something to wait for, the best is always ahead of me.

So... for this cause, i need your assistance to sort them in the best way.

I have already heard (from best to least):

And then they were three
Tresspass
Abacab
Calling all stations
From genesis to revolution

I know that the answer will probably be that Selling England to save for last therefore I am more interested in the other albums spots for example The lamb lies down in Broadway or Foxtrot or A trick of the tail, Invisible Touch or Genesis? Nursery crime or Duke?

You got it.

Much appreciate it!

[Stadler]

HUGE Genesis fan.  Sort of intrigued about how you can settle on "best for last" without listening to them... I know for me, "Abacab" is a top three album (and neither ATTWT or Trespass are).   

I think the best I can do for you, is to say, "one cannot properly assess Genesis or their catalogue, without listening to the following albums":

- Foxtrot OR Selling England By The Pound
- The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
- Wind And Wuthering
- Abacab
- Invisible Touch


If forced, I would rank the albums thusly (from Favorite to Least Favorite):

- Wind And Wuthering
- The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
- Abacab
- Duke
----------------------------------------
- Foxtrot
- Selling England By The Pound
- Invisible Touch
- Nursery Cryme
- A Trick Of The Tail
- Genesis
- And Then There Were Three
-----------------------------------------
- Trespass
- We Can't Dance
- Calling All Stations
- From Genesis To Revelations

I put the lines in because the first group are in pretty strict order; the second group are VERY close and are subject to change at any moment, and the third group are too subjective in their place in the catalogue.   No Phil on three of them, and him with one foot out the door on the fourth.   

[TAC]

Discover Iron Maiden instead!

[PowerSlave]

Discover Iron Maiden instead!

Wasn't Steve Harris heavily influenced by Genesis? If so, then from a round-about way he's moving in that direction.

[TAC]

Yes Steve Harris was a big fan. Let me know when the OP gets there!

[ChuckSteak]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

[PowerSlave]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

And then there were three had some really good songs. If you can ignore the radio single, the rest of the album very much has a classic Genesis feel to it.

[Prog Snob]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

[Stadler]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

ori-elias5, these people are fucking with you. They're trying to hog the good music for themselves, but don't let them!  Fight the power!   Duke AND Abacab have neither a Hackett or a Gabriel between them, and they will SMOKE what you've listened to already (except, of course, for Abacab itself, which you've listened to before.  But I digress.).

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970. 

[Phoenix87x]

Foxtrot, selling england by the pound and a trick of the tail. Get those three and you will be in business

[PowerSlave]

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970.

He was a team player that chose his spots to shine very wisely. There is no shame in that, and in fact may make him an even better guitarist than anyone gives him credit for.

[Cyclopssss]

Tresspass
Nursery Cryme
Selling England by the Pound
Foxtrot
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Wind and Wuthering
And then there were three
Seconds Out

Anything after that is bonus.

[Kotowboy]

.

[Prog Snob]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

ori-elias5, these people are fucking with you. They're trying to hog the good music for themselves, but don't let them!  Fight the power!   Duke AND Abacab have neither a Hackett or a Gabriel between them, and they will SMOKE what you've listened to already (except, of course, for Abacab itself, which you've listened to before.  But I digress.).

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970.

Ouch. I'm not sure what evidence you have for that or what is your basis for comparison.

[Polarbear]

Wind & Wuthering
A Trick of the Tail
Duke
Abacab
Genesis
Invisible Touch

Unpopular opinion: While the stuff with Hackett and Gabriel is interesting, the later genesis albums with Collins on vocals are so much better, it isn't even funny!

Their evolution as songwriters is very evident, from Trick all the way to Invisible Touch.

Even Gabriel's solo stuff is much better, than the stuff with Genesis.

[Fritzinger]

Wind & Wuthering
A Trick of the Tail
Duke
Abacab
Genesis
Invisible Touch

Unpopular opinion: While the stuff with Hackett and Gabriel is interesting, the later genesis albums with Collins on vocals are so much better, it isn't even funny!

Their evolution as songwriters in very evident, from Trick all the way to Invisible Touch.

Even Gabriel's solo stuff is much better, than the stuff with Genesis.

Did you j-
How can you ev-
Have you lost your m-

Dude, I get that the later stuff by Genesis is also good and I got into it a lot lately.. But the early Genesis stuff is the holy grail of Prog and they composed some of the best pieces I have ever heard. A Firth Of Fifth for instance is a huge masterpiece with tons of complexity and feeling in it. The Piano intro has so much thought in it. Invisible Touch is a 3,5 min popsong consisting of 6 chords and a chorus line that had to be made longer by a "yeah" because it didn't fit the melody.

[SoundscapeMN]

Do not dismiss Duke.

[ChuckSteak]

It is fun to watch people debating a matter of taste with reason and "evidence", as if there is a right or wrong in taste, as if you can objectively prove that something is better.. 

[Polarbear]

It is fun to watch people debating a matter of taste with reason and "evidence", as if there is a right or wrong in taste, as if you can objectively prove that something is better.. 

I agree!

I should say that their evolution as songwriters is evident TO ME.

As i said, there is a lot of interesting stuff with the early Genesis albums. How should i say this?..

I just feel that they did a great job streamlining their approach with the later albums, without completely abandoning their prog roots. There is alot of complicated stuff on the later albums: Domino, Driving the Last Spike, Abacab to name a few. Their sense of melody, and through that, their skill of songwriting improved as they went on IMO.

I feel similarly with Rush, for example. Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves showed how far they had come.

[ori.elias5]

Discover Iron Maiden instead!

Maiden is my first love 

Only 2nd to DT

[ori.elias5]

HUGE Genesis fan.  Sort of intrigued about how you can settle on "best for last" without listening to them... I know for me, "Abacab" is a top three album (and neither ATTWT or Trespass are).   

I think the best I can do for you, is to say, "one cannot properly assess Genesis or their catalogue, without listening to the following albums":

- Foxtrot OR Selling England By The Pound
- The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
- Wind And Wuthering
- Abacab
- Invisible Touch


If forced, I would rank the albums thusly (from Favorite to Least Favorite):

- Wind And Wuthering
- The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
- Abacab
- Duke
----------------------------------------
- Foxtrot
- Selling England By The Pound
- Invisible Touch
- Nursery Cryme
- A Trick Of The Tail
- Genesis
- And Then There Were Three
-----------------------------------------
- Trespass
- We Can't Dance
- Calling All Stations
- From Genesis To Revelations

I put the lines in because the first group are in pretty strict order; the second group are VERY close and are subject to change at any moment, and the third group are too subjective in their place in the catalogue.   No Phil on three of them, and him with one foot out the door on the fourth.

Highly appreciate it!!!

[Mister Gold]

Do not dismiss Duke.

Yeah, Duke is a pretty damn awesome album.

[LudwigVan]

For me, Duke and Lamb are their masterpiece albums.

[Fritzinger]

Phil Collins is on FIRE on Duke.

[Prog Snob]

Phil Collins is on FIRE on Duke.

Unfortunately only metaphorical.

[RoeDent]

I'm inclined to agree re. Hackett being a bit overrated (not completely, just a touch). When I think of the sound of Genesis, I think of vocals (both Gabriel and Collins), keyboards and drums before the guitar even comes to mind. A few solos, like Firth of Fifth and Horizons, but apart from that, I don't think of Genesis as a guitar-based band at all.

And don't listen to ProgSnob. Duke is a stunning album. Progressive pop in the truest sense of the word.

[KevShmev]

Hackett was and is awesome. Just because he was underused at times doesn't mean he wasn't great when he was. 

Selling England, The Lamb and A Trick of the Tail are the Big 3 to me, with Duke, Foxtrot and Wind and Wuthering in the next tier. 

Plenty of great stuff on most of the post-Hackett albums.  Heck, And Then There Were Three... is pretty darn good, and even the more pop albums in the 80s (self-titled and Invisible Touch) had some good deep cuts on there.  And while the song I Can't Dance is one of the grossest things ever, the We Can't Dance album still gave us Fading Lights.

[SoundscapeMN]

yes, Fading Lights is wonderful.

[DragonAttack]

^
And that's why someone who has listened to a handful of albums, should simply go back and listen to them in order.  Quite a finale.

[Fritzinger]

Phil Collins is on FIRE on Duke.

Unfortunately only metaphorical.

I'll simply ignore this.

We Cant Dance is a very great album. No Son, Dreaming While, Driving are all great pop songs with a little progressive touch. Fading Lights is the best song on the album though.
Also, IF a snare drum is triggered, it should be triggered LIKE THIS. The snare drum always sounds like a slap in the face. Think about that when hearing the first drum bars in No Son Of Mine.

[Stadler]

yes, Fading Lights is wonderful.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but for the rest, seek out the "The Way We Walk" live DVD and watch them play Fading Lights as a trio only.  It's an incredibly moving moment, especially in light of what transpired (and if you believe Phil's autobiography it wasn't the happy accident that it seemed at the time).    Incredibly emotional moment. 

[SoundscapeMN]

yes, Fading Lights is wonderful.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but for the rest, seek out the "The Way We Walk" live DVD and watch them play Fading Lights as a trio only.  It's an incredibly moving moment, especially in light of what transpired (and if you believe Phil's autobiography it wasn't the happy accident that it seemed at the time).    Incredibly emotional moment.

I haven't seen the DVD you mention, although I wouldn't be surprised if they brought it up on the Tabletop Genesis podcast when talking about We Can't Dance.
https://tabletopgenesis.com/tabletop-genesis-episode-15-we-cant-dance/

[Stadler]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

ori-elias5, these people are fucking with you. They're trying to hog the good music for themselves, but don't let them!  Fight the power!   Duke AND Abacab have neither a Hackett or a Gabriel between them, and they will SMOKE what you've listened to already (except, of course, for Abacab itself, which you've listened to before.  But I digress.).

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970.

Ouch. I'm not sure what evidence you have for that or what is your basis for comparison.

Well, read what I wrote carefully.  KevSchmev gets it.

Hackett was and is awesome. Just because he was underused at times doesn't mean he wasn't great when he was.

He's an amazing guitar player in the absolute sense - when you've influenced Alex Lifeson and Eddie Van Halen, it's hard to say you're not - but in my opinion, you'd have to go to his solo albums to get that.   IN GENESIS, he was a bit player.  He just was.   Even when there was guitar - Musical Box comes to mind - Mike was playing as well and sometimes - Supper's Ready I think, but I'm going off memory here - Tony was as well.    Firth of Fifth is an AMAZING solo, no question, and he has some great work on Return of the Giant Hogweed.   But when you're on six albums, and you can name the nightlights in five songs or less, you're not a main contributor.   

Add to that, when you can reasonably have half of the band's top five albums be albums you're not even on (and you were never formally replaced) it's hard to say you were an integral part of the machine.   

I'm not at all saying Hackett sucks;  I'm just saying that if you look at ONLY the Genesis catalogue, it's hard to put that work in the pantheon of greats.   

[Prog Snob]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

ori-elias5, these people are fucking with you. They're trying to hog the good music for themselves, but don't let them!  Fight the power!   Duke AND Abacab have neither a Hackett or a Gabriel between them, and they will SMOKE what you've listened to already (except, of course, for Abacab itself, which you've listened to before.  But I digress.).

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970.

Ouch. I'm not sure what evidence you have for that or what is your basis for comparison.

Well, read what I wrote carefully.  KevSchmev gets it.

Jimmy Page is far more overrated.

Guitar is more than just solos and shining through the rest of the band. Now YOU sound like the snob. 

[Stadler]

Listen to everything until Wind and Wuthering, then stop.

This.

Anything without Gabriel or Hackett isn't worth soiling your ears with.

ori-elias5, these people are fucking with you. They're trying to hog the good music for themselves, but don't let them!  Fight the power!   Duke AND Abacab have neither a Hackett or a Gabriel between them, and they will SMOKE what you've listened to already (except, of course, for Abacab itself, which you've listened to before.  But I digress.).

Steve Hackett may be the single most over-rated guitar player - in terms of his contribution to his "big name band" of any rock guitarist since 1970.

Ouch. I'm not sure what evidence you have for that or what is your basis for comparison.

Well, read what I wrote carefully.  KevSchmev gets it.

Jimmy Page is far more overrated.

Guitar is more than just solos and shining through the rest of the band. Now YOU sound like the snob. 

Not even close.   In my view, Jimmy Page is UNDER RATED.  He WAS Led Zeppelin, arguably the second greatest band in the history of modern rock.  It's interesting that you slag "guitar solos" as not being all that important, then slag "Jimmy Page" as over-rated, when the one knock against him that sticks is that his solos are sloppy.  His production capabilities and his arrangement skills alone  would make him a legend.

It's not at all about solos.  I don't know why this is so hard, or why people have their panties in a wad.   I'm not at all saying Hackett sucks.  It's nothing personal.    All I'm saying is that IN GENESIS, given what he contributed, it's hard to put him in the pantheon of greats.  Genesis is first and foremost a song-writers band, and it's well-documented that his contributions often didn't make the cut.