Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Senjutsu

[Samsara]

So, I listened to The X Factor this morning, after a long time. I tried really hard to not think of Bruce, which is difficult to do. For the most part, I think the record is an interesting, darker new beginning for Maiden.

But what bothers me is the vocals. I didn't need the vocals to sound like Bruce, but the problem with both TXF and VXI is that the vocals aren't DYNAMIC. He sings very monotone, and there's not a lot of excitement or passion in what I'm hearing. That's why it is hard not to think of Bruce on this. The missing FACTOR is dynamic vocals, which Bruce had in spades.

I don't think the record is bad, per se, but the vocals are weak. And I like Blaze. I have a live album from him that I enjoy very much. But his voice didn't translate well to what was being done, IMO.

Without getting too far ahead, I continued to VXI, and hear the same issue, although the music is more immediate.

Anyway, I am not a Blaze hater by any means. But his singing on TXF lacks a certain excitement that really drags the record down.

[Stadler]

Finally - there is NO way that Bruce's version of Sign of the Cross isn't better than the album version.  Because....he isn't Blaze.      I love the live versions of the Blaze songs that Bruce has done, especially Sign of the Cross.

I love that version from Rock in Rio; I think Bruce kills it, especially when the vocals come back in at the end and the tempo slows down a little.  I saw the tour where Maiden played sheds with Dio and Motorhead, and they did "The Clansmen", and Bruce delivered on that one too.

I know, I know, I'm begging the "but you like it because it's BRUCE" argument, but it just shows why he is so good.  He takes whatever and makes it his own, and delivers it with the energy it deserves.  Not that Gillan "I'm not singing that!" or the Sammy Hagar "I'll sing it, but I'll sing it with such detachment that you'll know I'm mocking it and not taking it seriously". 

[bosk1]

Finally - there is NO way that Bruce's version of Sign of the Cross isn't better than the album version.  Because....he isn't Blaze.      I love the live versions of the Blaze songs that Bruce has done, especially Sign of the Cross.

I love that version from Rock in Rio; I think Bruce kills it, especially when the vocals come back in at the end and the tempo slows down a little.  I saw the tour where Maiden played sheds with Dio and Motorhead, and they did "The Clansmen", and Bruce delivered on that one too.

I know, I know, I'm begging the "but you like it because it's BRUCE" argument, but it just shows why he is so good.  He takes whatever and makes it his own, and delivers it with the energy it deserves. 

I agree with all of that.  But I also am coming at it from a different angle.  I mean, I was around and listening to metal during the classic era when they were putting out albums like NOTB, POM, and Powerslave.  I wasn't a fan, but I heard some of it back then.  I didn't really dig in and start really liking Maiden until the previous album cycle for TFF.  Obviously, it was the Bruce material that made me a fan.  And some of the first albums I heard during that initial cycle a few years ago was Rock in Rio and the collection that has his live version of Man on the Edge.  So not only did I get into the band because of Bruce's singing (like most of us), but my first exposure to some of the Blaze-era tracks was with Bruce singing them rather than Blaze.  Having now heard both, I am VERY much partial to the Bruce versions.  I give Blaze his due for what he does on them.  But I strongly prefer the Bruce versions.  And I am fine recognizing that a big part of that is just bias because the Bruce versions of those songs were the ones I initially became familiar with.  But I think I can also be fair and just feel that Bruce does a better job with them.  Or at least, he renders a performance that I personally like better. 

[Mladen]

All in all, this is an album that i hold very dearly, and listen to in a regular basis. And it also turned me into a Blaze fan. I have enormous respect for him, because almost everybody hated him when he was on Maiden, and still give him grief until today about it, and he's still one of the nicest guys in metal. I went to at least 3  Blaze solo concerts here in Brazil, and they were all awesome. The guy really sings his heart out on stage, and is always thoughtful and very nice to his fans. He plays the show, and after he's done, he's on the bar stool having a beer and taking pictures, giving autographs or just having conversations with all the fans. I also admire how he keeps on constant touring around the world, playing small venues and never complains about it. I saw a show of the Syllicon Messiah tour for about 4/5000 people and a more recent tour maybe for 200 people and his enthuasiasm and performance were the same.

I'm glad someone brought this up. I've already shared my thoughts on Blaze as a singer, but his personality makes him truly an interesting figure. He performed several times in Serbia and spent almost an hour afterwards (once even prior to the gig) signing stuff and taking photos with people. He's not very talkative, he comes across as a bit shy when he talks to you in private (which is odd considering how wild he is on stage), but he still takes time to greet the fans. Once he played in front of 100 people in a local club in Belgrade and delivered a speech thanking each and every one of us, as if the audience wasn't extremely small. What a guy.

[Mister Gold]

Ahhh, The X Factor. Glad to finally be talking about this album!

My thoughts on the album go back and forth. It took me years to really "get" the album, despite my general preferences for darker, more progressive music. I took to A Matter of Life and Death almost instantly after I first heard that album, but there's certain elements about TXF that make it a more challenging album to digest.

Is it Blaze? Well, maybe? I do think that Bruce is a better singer usually and that Blaze's ability to deliver vocal melodies improved greatly after his exit from Iron Maiden, yet at the same time Blaze pours his heart out on this album. The songs are far more emotionally intimate than usual, so Blaze's approach compliments that.

Yet the production on the album is definitely a hinderance. All the comparisons to the songs sounding like a demo are spot-on.

I'll probably come back and say more on my thoughts on the album later, but for now, I'll say that it's probably in my top three IM albums. It's not perfect, it's a bit messy, but god is it a sucker-punch to the gut once it really clicks for you.

[TAC]

I think there's a couple reasons why the Bruce live versions are better received. I'm not saying "well it's Bruce obviously", But I think in general, TXF and to a lesser extent VXI, the songs are held back. By Blaze? Maybe. The production? Surely.

But the full band live performances (with Bruce) truly show the potential of the material.
What do we have so far?
Man On the Edge
Lord Of the Flies
Sign Of the Cross
Futureal
The Clansman

I think if the full band played any number of other tracks from the Blaze albums, I think they'd all go over pretty well.

[Samsara]

I think there's a couple reasons why the Bruce live versions are better received. I'm not saying "well it's Bruce obviously", But I think in general, TXF and to a lesser extent VXI, the songs are held back. By Blaze? Maybe. The production? Surely.

But the full band live performances (with Bruce) truly show the potential of the material.
What do we have so far?
Man On the Edge
Lord Of the Flies
Sign Of the Cross
Futureal
The Clansman

I think if the full band played any number of other tracks from the Blaze albums, I think they'd all go over pretty well.

I know some are on the Rio release, but could you or Mosh list out where each of those tunes with Bruce singing van be fount (which releases). The ones i dont have, i will buy and rip a playlist.

[TAC]

The Clansman and Sign Of the Cross are on RiR
Lord Of the Flies is on Death On The Road
Futureal and Man On The Edge are on The Wicker Man CD single

[bosk1]

I listened to X and XI for the first time this morning.  Let me just say that, while they didn't do a whole lot for me overall, they were better than I expected.  And I liked XI better than X.  What I also found interesting was this:  I initially intended to listen to just X.  I found the complete album on Youtube and was listening while working.  Then it linked to XI and played that.  Then it linked to Brave New World and played that.  And even though BNW is my least favorite reunion album (I don't dislike it; I just like it less than the others), it felt like a huge step up from what I had been listening to.

That said, again, they weren't bad.  I am STILL of a similar opinion as I used to be.  Formerly, I had no desire really at all to explore the Blaze albums.  I wasn't actively avoiding them, but just didn't have any desire to listen to them.  I am perfectly content with the Maiden albums I have, with the caveat that if I happened to see FOTD or NP in the used bin for a reasonable price, I would pick them up.  I've changed that ever so slightly and have gone from having "no desire" to explore them to "no strong desire to do so immediately, but would add them to the category of: if I find them in the used been for a reasonable price, I'll pick them up." 

Going back to the Bruce renditions of the songs:

But the full band live performances (with Bruce) truly show the potential of the material.
What do we have so far?
Man On the Edge
Lord Of the Flies
Sign Of the Cross
Futureal
The Clansman

As noted above, I had heard Sign of the Cross, The Clansman, and Man on the Edge.  I REALLY like Bruce's renditions of the two former ones.  And Man on the Edge is okay.  Not great, but okay.  I just found Futureal and Lord of the Flies.  The former did nothing for me, even with Bruce singing.  I thought the latter with Bruce was great.  The studio version with Blaze that I heard earlier didn't do anything for me.  So of the four songs they've done that I actually like, I give the edge to the Bruce versions. 


EDIT:  Samsara, From Fear To Eternity also has three of them there (Man on the Edge, Sign of the Cross, and The Clansman)

[cramx3]

The Clansman and Sign Of the Cross are on RiR
Lord Of the Flies is on Death On The Road
Futureal and Man On The Edge are on The Wicker Man CD single

And of these, I only find the RiR songs to be better than the originals.  Blaze's voice works better on those, but Bruce does take The Clansman and Sign of the Cross to a new level IMO.

I really enjoy The X Factor.  The production is terrible and it really makes the album hard to listen to, as well as some of the plodding in a lot of the songs, which is a reason why it's still ranked low compared to the rest, but I don't consider it a band album.  There's a lot of really cool stuff going on musically that's really enjoyable.  I really didn't notice this when I first listened to the album, but it really does start the beginning of that reunion era style of music.  Longer progressive songs.  Sadly, most of them aren't as good as the songs to come when Bruce came back, but I really do enjoy a lot of this album, musically that is.  Blaze is a solid singer in my book, love his solo work, but I definitely feel the production holds him back as well.  He kind of sounds like shit.  It really just compounds the issues when you think about a new singer and this production.  I, once again, can't imagine what it must have been like as a fan at the time.  I can totally understand someone just hating this album while living through it. 

[Samsara]

Thanks tim. Just bought dotr and the wickerman single.

[TAC]

Thanks tim. Just bought dotr and the wickerman single.

We'll discuss it due time, but Death On the Road is my favorite Maiden live album.

And I liked XI better than X.   

Not surprised to hear that. Again, when we get to VXI, but it's a definitely more classic Maiden style album.

   I really didn't notice this when I first listened to the album, but it really does start the beginning of that reunion era style of music.  Longer progressive songs.  Sadly, most of them aren't as good as the songs to come when Bruce came back, 

Jannick has a ton of writing credits on TXF. But when you take that, and add Bruce and Adrian back to the fold, those style tracks are bound to "fill out".

[RodrigoAltaf]

I read a few years ago that Maiden played their longest ever set with Blaze when they were releasing an album - not sure if it was TXF or VXI, but I believe it was TXF. This was a private event for a fan club, and they played the album in full plus a handful of older songs. Does anyone have a clue about this? I tried to find it today, but didn´t see any info to back this up.

[TAC]

I read a few years ago that Maiden played their longest ever set with Blaze when they were releasing an album - not sure if it was TXF or VXI, but I believe it was TXF. This was a private event for a fan club, and they played the album in full plus a handful of older songs. Does anyone have a clue about this? I tried to find it today, but didn´t see any info to back this up.

https://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/iron-maiden-pictures.15614/page-48

Scroll to halfway down the page.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Great catch, TAC. I couldn´t see the pictures or the setlist though. So it was the release of The Angel and the Gambler then...

[TAC]

[Mosh]

Wow. Lots to chew on here. I'll work my through these comments throughout the week as I'm busy with school starting and a new job.

Here's my take on Blaze: He's not a bad singer at all. He's not great, but he's OK. The problem is that he was coming from what was essentially a bar band and was still very much an amateur. He developed a lot through his time in Maiden and really proved himself on his solo albums. Unfortunately, most people stopped paying attention by that point. It also didn't help that Steve was writing a lot of stuff that didn't suit his voice. His best performances are easily the songs that he had a hand in writing. He also gives more emotive performances. Look For the Truth is my vote for the album's hidden gem and it's also a fantastic performance from Blaze.

That being said, picking someone who couldn't handle the back catalog was a mistake. The least they could've done was downtune or change the melodies to better accommodate his vocals.

BTW, he did a cover of Blood Brothers a few years ago and it's fantastic. He would've done a more than respectable job had he stayed on for a third album.

- First and foremost, the notion that we "reject Blaze" because he's "not Bruce".  Look, it's painfully obvious that he's not Bruce, but I LOVE Di'anno, who isn't Bruce either.  Killers is a Top Three Maiden record for me (and potentially a Top 15 ALL TIME record for me, which I guess makes it a Top Two Maiden album, since only Powerslave is in my Top 15 all time list).  Blaze just wasn't a good fit for Maiden, period.   Di'Anno wasn't either, but the music was different and it didn't show as much.  Maiden then was 3:25 seconds of grit, grime and attitude.  That is NOT Maiden circa 1995.

There are definitely fans who rejected Blaze because he wasn't Bruce, my dad among them. As you said, you have to look at the context. Di'Anno wasn't replacing Bruce. People were either there to experience Paul in real time or in retrospect checking out Maiden's back catalog. Paul was allowed to exist in his own context while Blaze was always going to be in the shadow of Bruce. I think people are more open to his era now because he's in a similar position to Paul, as the former singer who was only there for a couple hours. But in 1995 that wasn't the case.

- Second, that it is "underrated"; it is, in my opinion, exactly correctly rated. It IS a polarizing album.  There are good points - Sign of the Cross, the Genesis rip-offs not withstanding, and The Unbeliever - but this is a classic example of that common pitfall of the mid'-90's (ironically, Genesis fell into it with "We Can't Dance" as well) and that is, just because a CD holds 80 minutes, doesn't mean that you have 80 minutes worth filling.

I think I can agree with this. I tried to refrain from the word "underrated" both because it tends to be overused and I don't think it applies here. It's much like Train Of Thought in that it's fairly one dimensional. There's a single tone and mood to the album that isn't one of the hallmarks of Maiden so it's not going to be for everyone. But for those who appreciate that kind of thing, it's a real special treat.

- What are we, fourth now?  I think the songwriting is average.   I've listened to this countless times - it's not quite "Grace Under Pressure", my least favorite Rush album that I revisit religiously about every year to see if I've missed something or to see if I have warmed to it, but it's close - and there just aren't the hooks or the melodies that the best Maiden - even the heaviest Maiden - has. 

This is where I refrain from putting the album on the pedestal that some fans have it on. I love that they tried something different and I really enjoy the result, but the songwriting doesn't hold up to most other albums. They're trying a new direction and they worked on refining it for years after. I don't think the modern Maiden formula was perfected until A Matter of Life and Death. That album is the zenith of what they were trying to achieve with The X Factor.

- Fifth, the production DOES blow, but Martin Birch notwithstanding, Maiden has never been known to be a "production paradigm".

The production is bad even for modern Maiden standards. Some of the badly produced albums (mostly the debut) have a redeeming charm, but X Factor does not. For the reunion era, some of the albums could've been improved in the production department, but only Dance of Death is ruined the way The X Factor is, all the others are more than listenable.

- Sixth, and finally, I think this album suffers because of Nicko McBrain; famously, he was (allegedly) the guy that told Steve "it's your band, your call, but you need to SERIOUSLY consider bringing Bruce back, bro."  I think he consciously/subconsciously knew that this wasn't right.  There are parts on this record (and the follow-up) where I've actually gone to Wikipedia because I wasn't convinced it was actually him playing.   That's a CRUCIAL point for a power band like Maiden.

This is the reason I give Dave and Janick more credit than Nicko for being the backbone of Maiden in the 90s. Nicko really took a back seat during the Blaze years and it gets worse on the next album. It's obvious that he took Bruce's departure really personally and Steve is lucky he's one of the most loyal guys in the business because otherwise he probably would've left shortly after.

A question regarding the lyrics - I was always sure all of the songs that list Blaze with a writing feature his lyrics. I'm surprised that's not the case. I'd question what his contributions to some of those songs were.

It's possible the details of the songwriting have been revealed, but I wasn't able to find anything. It seems that in the credits the lyricist is listed first on this album, so Blaze probably did the lyrics on Look For the Truth and 2 AM. It's also a very different writing style than Steve's, less literal and more metaphor. As for the other songs with Blaze's name in the credit, maybe he helped out with some of the vocal melodies. Bruce and Paul rarely worked as closely to Steve as Blaze did, so their creative relationship is very unique in Maiden's history.

3...Jannick's songwriting is brilliant on this album. He has a hand in 8 of the 11 album tracks plus Judgement Day. I think anyone that takes the position that TXF is a masterpiece, yet doesn't care for Jannick being in the band, is confused.

I'd take that further and say that anyone who doesn't like Janick but appreciates anything they've done since The X Factor is confused. The guy has been in the band for nearly 30 years and people still act like he's only allowed to stay in the band as some sort of courtesy. Anyway, he definitely hits his stride on this album. This album could've easily been entirely written by Harris and that wouldn't have been a good thing.

4....This would be the second half of my Bruce epiphany. Because what this album truly feels like it needs is balance. Personally, other than Sign Of The Cross, Man On The Edge, Lord Of The Flies, and 2 AM, I'm not sure the other tracks are completely fleshed out. I think you get Steve's vision, and I've often referred to TXF as  Steve Harris solo album, but I've always wondered if some of these more meandering tracks could've used a little more push back in the studio. I have a hard time thinking Jannick, and especially Blaze would've challenged Steve with an occasional "you know Steve, that really doesn't work." This is where I truly understood how Bruce's absence would be realized. Especially when comparing TXF to the fresh and exciting Picasso.

I go back and forth on whether this album would've improved with Bruce's involvement.  I think Bruce's 1998 vocal style would've been good (as proven on Rock In Rio) but definitely not his 1993 vocal style. His voice was still going through a lot of growing pains throughout most of the 90s. I also think his creative contributions might've clashed with Steve's in a negative way. This album has flaws but Steve's vision isn't one of them. Bruce would've been good on Virtual though.

Bosk: That sounds like a pretty typical first impression. I preferred Virtual too at first, but over time I've grown to prefer X Factor. X Factor is a definite grower. I didn't get it at all at first. Also Brave New World is very close to Virtual, which will be discussed when we get there.

[Mosh]

Great catch, TAC. I couldn´t see the pictures or the setlist though. So it was the release of The Angel and the Gambler then...

Nah, the album was out for a month already by the time they played that gig. It was just under the name The Angels and The Gamblers because it was a secret gig. Other secret gigs include Holy Smokers and Charlotte and the Harlots.

[wolfking]

The X Factor was an album I discovered very early in my Maiden journey.  The small second hand store that was near me when I was like 13 that I spoke of earlier in this thread comes into play here again.  I had already gotten TNOTB, NPFTD and FOTD with also the LAD VHS.  So when I went back and picked up The X Factor, it was the only album they had left in stock from Maiden.

It took me a little while to get the likes of Powerslave, SIT etc. as I had to get them new and picked up these ones for like 10 bucks so I couldn't afford those but settled for whatever I could get.  At the time I had no idea about the history of the band and Bruce leaving, in fact there being other singers in their time.  So when I opened it up and saw Blaze, I was very surprised.  I had no info, opinions or anything else to go on the Blaze era whatsoever, this was a blind listen to this style of Maiden and Blaze in general.

Right away I noticed the length of the album and the dark atmosphere when SOTC starts.  Blaze's voice was something very different and a bit confusing compared to what I had heard beforehand.  I found it interesting and something just kept making me play this over and over and I went from "this is vertainly different,' to 'Jesus, this incredible.' This was number 3 in my top 50 and my favourite Maiden album.  If I had discovered Maiden through the classic era and this was one of the albums I discovered last, it probably wouldn't be but it was one of my first Maiden experiences and I still love it.  As a struggling early teenager dealing with the struggles of school and pre purberty blues, the mood, atmosphere and simply everything about this album just hooked me. 

The production is indeed a little flat, but it's fine and fits the mood IMO.  The performances are raw and Blaze is pure raw emotion, even if he is pitchy and flat at times, it's not a downer for me.  I always took this album for what it is and that obviously helps my appreciation.  It's different and balls to Steve and the band for going this way, even though it didn't quite work.

One thing I love is the rawness of the vocals.  No harmonies, double vocals, just one track, brilliant.  Love what Dave and Jan does on here too, Janick has some really nice moments here.

For kicks I went back and see what I wrote about it when I did my top 50;

I discovered this quite like I discovered Jugulator, on a whim at a second hand store.  This was my fourth or fifth Maiden album.  Again, I wasn't up to date with what the band were doing at the time and were not aware of their history.  I got it home and discovered Blaze Bayley at the vocal helm.  Interested by the artwork and concepts and put this cd on and really, on my first listen I still remember being very confused at what was on offer here.  This did not sound like the Maiden I had discovered.  I repeated the cd a few times to try and figure out what was going on.  The extreme length of the album, the long songs, the depressing, dark mood and the very raw vocals from Blaze was different.  The more I listened to it, the more it intrigued me.  Going from, "Man what is this, this isn't Maiden," eventually turned into "Wow, this album is incredible."  I still remember listening to 'Harry's Blood on the World's Hands intro wondering what the hell was going on.

To this day, it is by far my favourite Maiden album, and I still listen to it often.  This album was written in a dark time of 'Harry's life and it showed.  As a confused teen in high school, this album was like a coping tool at times.  The power, subtleness and brilliance displayed in this album is something unique.  Blaze showed he is different to Bruce but really, Bruce couldn't have pulled this off like Blaze did.  This album and Blaze were a match made in heaven, you gotta give Steve that.  This also contains my favourite Maiden song being Sign of the Cross.  It's epic, powerful, depressing and possibly the most complex and closest thing to prog Maiden have even gone.  Yes, the production is a little flat. Yes, Blaze is also a little flat in places, and yes it has some of the most out there and misunderstood Maiden moments ever, but this album and all 71 minutes of it, to me is perfect.  Also, check out the three original b-sides which never made it to the album; Judgement Day, Justice of the Peace and I Live My Way.

Best tracks - Sign of the Cross, Fortunes of War, The Aftermath, Blood on the Worlds Hands, Judgement of Heaven, The Edge of Darkness


I find it interesting that I listed JOH as one of the best tracks.  I probably wouldn't think that now.

[jammindude]

Re: Bruce''s version of Cross

I just think he sounds bored. There's a very "let's get this over with" quality to his performance that reminds me of his live stuff during the FOTD tour.

Blaze, while not being as dynamic, sounds far more brooding...determined. ...I can actually FEEL the lyrics when he's doing it.

EDIT - Blaze makes me feel like I'm right there with him, feeling everything he's feeling.  Bruce's version,  while technically superior,  makes me feel nothing.

[wolfking]

Re: Bruce''s version of Cross

I just think he sounds bored. There's a very "let's get this over with" quality to his performance that reminds me of his live stuff during the FOTD tour.

Blaze, while not being as dynamic, sounds far more brooding...determined. ...I can actually FEEL the lyrics when he's doing it.

EDIT - Blaze makes me feel like I'm right there with him, feeling everything he's feeling.  Bruce's version,  while technically superior,  makes me feel nothing.

Agree with what you say here regarding Bruce's version.  It's fine but he almost gives me the impression that he is sort of too good to sing the song.

[TAC]

4....This would be the second half of my Bruce epiphany. Because what this album truly feels like it needs is balance. Personally, other than Sign Of The Cross, Man On The Edge, Lord Of The Flies, and 2 AM, I'm not sure the other tracks are completely fleshed out. I think you get Steve's vision, and I've often referred to TXF as  Steve Harris solo album, but I've always wondered if some of these more meandering tracks could've used a little more push back in the studio. I have a hard time thinking Jannick, and especially Blaze would've challenged Steve with an occasional "you know Steve, that really doesn't work." This is where I truly understood how Bruce's absence would be realized. Especially when comparing TXF to the fresh and exciting Picasso.

I go back and forth on whether this album would've improved with Bruce's involvement.  I think Bruce's 1998 vocal style would've been good (as proven on Rock In Rio) but definitely not his 1993 vocal style. His voice was still going through a lot of growing pains throughout most of the 90s. I also think his creative contributions might've clashed with Steve's in a negative way. This album has flaws but Steve's vision isn't one of them. Bruce would've been good on Virtual though.

No, Steve's vision is fine. And I certainly wasn't trying to say that this album would be better with Bruce on it. But I do feel like some of the tracks need a little help and rounding out.

Blaze showed he is different to Bruce but really, Bruce couldn't have pulled this off like Blaze did.  This album and Blaze were a match made in heaven, you gotta give Steve that. 

I agree with this completely.

Blaze has an awesome voice and it is perfect for this album.

Bruce would've been good on Virtual though.

Yes. Lots to talk about when comparing the two Blaze albums. We'll get there.

Re: Bruce''s version of Cross

I just think he sounds bored. There's a very "let's get this over with" quality to his performance that reminds me of his live stuff during the FOTD tour.

Blaze, while not being as dynamic, sounds far more brooding...determined. ...I can actually FEEL the lyrics when he's doing it.

EDIT - Blaze makes me feel like I'm right there with him, feeling everything he's feeling.  Bruce's version,  while technically superior,  makes me feel nothing.

I don't really disagree with this. Bruce seems to connect better with The Clansman.

[DoctorAction]

Just to big up Blaze more. I love his voice in general and think his work on SOTC is fantastic.

[Stadler]

BTW, he did a cover of Blood Brothers a few years ago and it's fantastic. He would've done a more than respectable job had he stayed on for a third album.

I think, though, that when you - like me - had "been with" Maiden since the early 80's, and seen them as a scraggly bunch of street fighters, almost "punk" without the "I don't give a fuck" ethos ("Iron Maiden" is the best punk album ever made, if you want to look at it that way), and you watched them get more and more and more epic... 'a more than respectable job' doesn't cut the mustard.  That's why they were looking for a singer to begin with, because Bruce - mentally, in himself - was finding it harder and harder to give 'more than a respectable job'.   In Maidenland, that's a fail.

- First and foremost, the notion that we "reject Blaze" because he's "not Bruce".  Look, it's painfully obvious that he's not Bruce, but I LOVE Di'anno, who isn't Bruce either.  Killers is a Top Three Maiden record for me (and potentially a Top 15 ALL TIME record for me, which I guess makes it a Top Two Maiden album, since only Powerslave is in my Top 15 all time list).  Blaze just wasn't a good fit for Maiden, period.   Di'Anno wasn't either, but the music was different and it didn't show as much.  Maiden then was 3:25 seconds of grit, grime and attitude.  That is NOT Maiden circa 1995.

There are definitely fans who rejected Blaze because he wasn't Bruce, my dad among them. As you said, you have to look at the context. Di'Anno wasn't replacing Bruce. People were either there to experience Paul in real time or in retrospect checking out Maiden's back catalog. Paul was allowed to exist in his own context while Blaze was always going to be in the shadow of Bruce. I think people are more open to his era now because he's in a similar position to Paul, as the former singer who was only there for a couple hours. But in 1995 that wasn't the case.

We're kinda saying the same thing, but in a different way and drawing a different conclusion to it.   They ARE different circumstances.   Paul was Paul.   Bruce came in and didn't "replace" Paul, per se, he became "Bruce".   The band and he jumped to the next level together (I know this, because I saw it with mine own two eyes).   I don't really know what Blaze was trying to accomplish.   He was a young, inexperienced guy - a beautiful person, no doubt, probably hungry - but the band was not.  The band was a group of vets who had toured the world, and seen everything, including two hangings and a goat fucking.   In my view, he didn't elevate the band in the way that Bruce did; that it's not really Blaze's fault is immaterial, though I might add that Bruce DID in fact RE-elevate them when he rejoined, by allowing them to be a prog metal colossus that could tour stadia internationally without a hit and in some cases without even a new album release.  There are only a handful of bands that can do that.

I think I can agree with this. I tried to refrain from the word "underrated" both because it tends to be overused and I don't think it applies here. It's much like Train Of Thought in that it's fairly one dimensional. There's a single tone and mood to the album that isn't one of the hallmarks of Maiden so it's not going to be for everyone. But for those who appreciate that kind of thing, it's a real special treat.

I don't think this needs to be said, but I'll say it anyway: I hope no one takes more from what I wrote than what is intended:  if "The X Factor" (or Virtual IX for that matter) click with you?  Awesome!  I sincerely couldn't be happier, and I'm just grateful that you have a way into the awesome world that is Iron Maiden (one of my favorite bands of all time).  I'm not at all telling anyone they are wrong, only that I disagree and hopefully giving a little insight into why. It's all with deep respect. 

This is where I refrain from putting the album on the pedestal that some fans have it on. I love that they tried something different and I really enjoy the result, but the songwriting doesn't hold up to most other albums. They're trying a new direction and they worked on refining it for years after. I don't think the modern Maiden formula was perfected until A Matter of Life and Death. That album is the zenith of what they were trying to achieve with The X Factor.

I say "Dance of Death", but we're quibbling now.  I will say this:  I was literally breathless during "Blood Brothers" on this last tour; how they have come to own that song!!!!   It took on a life of it's own in the show I saw.  I was pleasantly surprised!

The production is bad even for modern Maiden standards. Some of the badly produced albums (mostly the debut) have a redeeming charm, but X Factor does not. For the reunion era, some of the albums could've been improved in the production department, but only Dance of Death is ruined the way The X Factor is, all the others are more than listenable.

Well, in my opinion, the earlier records have an excuse; they were learning and they were setting a foundation. If you listen to the debut compared to some of the versions of those songs from even earlier, it's a vast improvement, and while some would say "BAD PRODUCTION!" I kind of think the sound of the first album fits the material.  "Prowler"; "Running Free"; "Sanctuary"; these are short, sharp tales of someone on the wrong side of the law and the production - loose, rough - fit that perfectly.   That same production (and I know it's not the same) doesn't work for an eleven minute, sixteen second epic murder mystery at a monastery during the time of the Inquisition.    Maiden circa 1995 should know better. 

I'd take that further and say that anyone who doesn't like Janick but appreciates anything they've done since The X Factor is confused. The guy has been in the band for nearly 30 years and people still act like he's only allowed to stay in the band as some sort of courtesy. Anyway, he definitely hits his stride on this album. This album could've easily been entirely written by Harris and that wouldn't have been a good thing.

I can appreciate what he's done, and certainly, I am in grudging agreement that his songwriting is integral to what we now know as "Iron Maiden".   But I have yet to see where he's "the backbone".  I think Maiden continues - and at their current level - as long as Steve, Davey and Bruce have the will and the desire.  I think they can overcome the loss of Nicko (you have no idea how much it hurts me to say that), Adrian, and Jannick. 

I go back and forth on whether this album would've improved with Bruce's involvement.  I think Bruce's 1998 vocal style would've been good (as proven on Rock In Rio) but definitely not his 1993 vocal style. His voice was still going through a lot of growing pains throughout most of the 90s. I also think his creative contributions might've clashed with Steve's in a negative way. This album has flaws but Steve's vision isn't one of them. Bruce would've been good on Virtual though.

This is KEY for me:   I think Bruce's "The Sign Of The Cross" blows Blaze's out of the water, but because he's singing in the style he did for the reunion.  I love Bruce, but I really, REALLY don't like the choices he made in that early 90's time frame.  I have Dio already; I don't need Bruce singing that way too.  I like the Air Raid Siren!!! 

[Stadler]

Re: Bruce''s version of Cross

I just think he sounds bored. There's a very "let's get this over with" quality to his performance that reminds me of his live stuff during the FOTD tour.

Blaze, while not being as dynamic, sounds far more brooding...determined. ...I can actually FEEL the lyrics when he's doing it.

EDIT - Blaze makes me feel like I'm right there with him, feeling everything he's feeling.  Bruce's version,  while technically superior,  makes me feel nothing.

There's a lot of mutual respect, here, Jammin, and you know that.   But I can't agree with that.  I actually think it's so good because he DOESN'T sound bored.  I've written a lot about how Bruce doesn't seem to give two craps who originally sang the songs he sings live.   When I saw him sing "The Clansman", it was almost as if Maiden was debuting a new song, though I knew what it was.  I did go back and relisten to see how closely it was played to the original (very close).  I get it; I'm not naïve; Bruce is a professional, and it's not physically humanly possible to not have ONE NIGHT that is phoned in, so I imagine some of his stage mannerisms and energy is forced (and the repetitiveness of his stage raps reinforces this point), but it is still energy and it still works.  Contrast with this: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=iron+maiden+live+blaze&view=detail&mid=AFDA8C5170EE5CF71E43AFDA8C5170EE5CF71E43&FORM=VIRE where Blaze doesn't move his feet - he LITERALLY DOES NOT MOVE HIS FEET - until two and a half minutes into the song when the solo starts.   

[Samsara]

You got a foot fetish or something, Stadler? 

[Stadler]

You got a foot fetish or something, Stadler? 

NO! Just the opposite, actually.  I hate feet.  Foot fetish porn is like a horror movie to me.  TMI! 

[Lowdz]

Just to big up Blaze more. I love his voice in general and think his work on SOTC is fantastic.

All these comments about Blaze's supposed amazing voice... I can say he has an original voice, but there is no range at all. I'm not even sure he covers a full octave. Everything is delivered in the same monotone and he has nowhere to go when the song  needs a change of atmosphere.

I'd take a bored Bruce every time. Even DiAnno could express different moods.

[TAC]

We're kinda saying the same thing, but in a different way and drawing a different conclusion to it.   

WTf'nF? 

[Grappler]

So I've listened to X-Factor a few times over the past 2 days and found a lot more to enjoy than just the first 3 songs, which is where my interest usually drops off.  What's weird is that me, Mr. Metalhead, king of dark, evil, music....enjoys the mood and feel of the next album more than this one.   

I think I just like my Maiden to sound happy and upbeat/uptempo.  I had never really put much thought into X Factor being such a dark album before, but it truly is.

[jammindude]

Stadler -

I made no comparisons to Blaze live, which is obviously inferior. But I think that part of the criticism of his performance can be leveled at Mr Harris, who speeds up the tempo to something I don't think Blaze was comfortable with. As proof of this, Blazes solo live version is slowed way down.

[Samsara]

I think the solo versions of Blaze-era Maiden tunes are often better. For example, I much prefer the version of "Sign of the Cross" from Blaze's "As Live as it Gets" live solo record to the studio version of him with Maiden. He's not as monotone and lifeless.

I prefer Bruce overall, but I think, maybe, that Blaze's inexperience in the studio environment on those two Maiden records, along with not having a very experienced true producer, may have impacted the quality, no doubt.

[TAC]

I prefer Bruce overall, but I think, maybe, that Blaze's inexperience in the studio environment on those two Maiden records, along with not having a very experienced true producer, may have impacted the quality, no doubt.

Yes, totally.

[DoctorAction]

Just to big up Blaze more. I love his voice in general and think his work on SOTC is fantastic.

All these comments about Blaze's supposed amazing voice... I can say he has an original voice, but there is no range at all. I'm not even sure he covers a full octave. Everything is delivered in the same monotone and he has nowhere to go when the song  needs a change of atmosphere.

I'd take a bored Bruce every time. Even DiAnno could express different moods.

He's no Bruce. Different league. Almost a different art form. But Blaze has a gift too.

I've always just felt so bad for him over the Maiden thing!

[wolfking]

I've always just felt so bad for him over the Maiden thing!

Same.  He tried his best and put everything into it, it just didn't work.  Why Steve would make him sing some of these songs live and not alter the tunings is beyond me.