Author Topic: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting  (Read 98955 times)

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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1645 on: November 30, 2017, 10:47:50 AM »
Er, I guess the White House is planning to replace Rex Tillerson with Mike Pompeo? What? Why?

Tillerson allegedly called Trump a moron.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!  Not that, anything but that! :lol
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1646 on: November 30, 2017, 11:29:06 AM »
Tillerson's wanted out, anyway. Moreover, I think this is part of a bigger deal. There's somebody else he wants to head the CIA and he likes Pompeo for State.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mattis follows him out the door. I reckon the sane and sensible will be the ones to jump ship. Folk like Conway and Sanders will stick around until Trump starts passing out the Kool-ade  (or until FOX offers them gazillions of dollars). Gates I'm not so sure about it. He might still be a functional human, but there are also signs that he's been zombified.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1647 on: November 30, 2017, 12:10:31 PM »
Er, I guess the White House is planning to replace Rex Tillerson with Mike Pompeo? What? Why?

Tillerson allegedly called Trump a moron.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!  Not that, anything but that! :lol

In my humble opinion, Tillerson is the smartest guy in the room, bar none, so take that for what it's worth.

Offline Kattelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1648 on: December 02, 2017, 07:16:16 AM »
Er, I guess the White House is planning to replace Rex Tillerson with Mike Pompeo? What? Why?

Tillerson allegedly called Trump a moron.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!  Not that, anything but that! :lol

In my humble opinion, Tillerson is the smartest guy in the room, bar none, so take that for what it's worth.

Seems like he's staying. At least, that's what the WH wants us to think. Who knows anymore.

And hooray for tax cuts for the rich. Just hooray.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1649 on: December 02, 2017, 11:02:39 AM »
If included in that last statement was "Spending to be decreased accordingly, well then that would be cause for celebration." I won't wait for any elected official to offer me that statement though.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1650 on: December 04, 2017, 11:19:54 AM »
Er, I guess the White House is planning to replace Rex Tillerson with Mike Pompeo? What? Why?

Tillerson allegedly called Trump a moron.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!  Not that, anything but that! :lol

In my humble opinion, Tillerson is the smartest guy in the room, bar none, so take that for what it's worth.

Seems like he's staying. At least, that's what the WH wants us to think. Who knows anymore.

And hooray for tax cuts for the rich. Just hooray.

That's like analyzing Christmas and saying "And hooray for more trash on trash day.  Just hooray."

The tax plan is ALL about repatriating the estimated $3 to 4$ TRILLION DOLLARS of foreign income that hasn't been taxed to date in this country because the corporate tax rate is EXCEEDINGLY high.

What many - and I won't say you, but it certainly sounds like you - don't get is that by continuing to make the so-called "rich" the scapegoats, they are not going to take it lying down.   The Rolling Stones weren't tax exiles to France because they were willing to continue to fund their country.  U2.   Queen.  Iron Maiden.   McCartney.  Lennon.   The list goes on.

The American people are too stupid - yeah, I said it - to accept corporate tax breaks, no matter HOW welcome and necessary, if there wasn't a quid pro quo for the individual.   Why should the rich not get some benefit as long as the rest of the country is?  Why should they be punished?  Why the need to be vindictive?    The corporate tax changes will ultimately result in INCREASED revenue for the government, to the estimated tune of $300 to $400 billion, in one article I saw.    Why wouldn't we do that?   Why wouldn't we accept some downside* in order to accomplish that?

To Chris's point, the one thing you CAN rightfully criticize the tax plan for is not reducing spending, but I sort of think that's a fight for another day at this point.

* throwing you a bone and assuming that being fair, that not playing favorites, and not showing those dirty filthy rich just how disgusting and selfish they are for actually being successful (the NERVE!) is a "downside"   

Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1651 on: December 04, 2017, 11:33:26 AM »
That's like analyzing Christmas and saying "And hooray for more trash on trash day.  Just hooray."

The tax plan is ALL about repatriating the estimated $3 to 4$ TRILLION DOLLARS of foreign income that hasn't been taxed to date in this country because the corporate tax rate is EXCEEDINGLY high.

What many - and I won't say you, but it certainly sounds like you - don't get is that by continuing to make the so-called "rich" the scapegoats, they are not going to take it lying down.   The Rolling Stones weren't tax exiles to France because they were willing to continue to fund their country.  U2.   Queen.  Iron Maiden.   McCartney.  Lennon.   The list goes on.

The American people are too stupid - yeah, I said it - to accept corporate tax breaks, no matter HOW welcome and necessary, if there wasn't a quid pro quo for the individual.   Why should the rich not get some benefit as long as the rest of the country is?  Why should they be punished?  Why the need to be vindictive?    The corporate tax changes will ultimately result in INCREASED revenue for the government, to the estimated tune of $300 to $400 billion, in one article I saw.    Why wouldn't we do that?   Why wouldn't we accept some downside* in order to accomplish that?

To Chris's point, the one thing you CAN rightfully criticize the tax plan for is not reducing spending, but I sort of think that's a fight for another day at this point.

* throwing you a bone and assuming that being fair, that not playing favorites, and not showing those dirty filthy rich just how disgusting and selfish they are for actually being successful (the NERVE!) is a "downside"
And I'm sure the government is going to spend its new windfall on welfare programs to help the poor and needy, so it's all good.  :lol
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1652 on: December 04, 2017, 11:34:53 AM »
I've never claimed to be some tax code scholar but every report I've seen on it tells me that the corporate tax breaks are permanent, and the rest are not, meaning even if the middle class gets some cuts in the near future, over time it's going to creep back up again while the corporations have their permanent break - that Trump himself will save quite a lot of money on this despite proclaiming it to be "a big win for the middle class." My problem isn't inherently with the rich, it's with the way politicians and government act like they care about the average person but in reality are partial to those with the most money.

Also, what EB said. Like the government knows how to spend money well.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1653 on: December 04, 2017, 11:55:43 AM »
And I'm sure the government is going to spend its new windfall on welfare programs to help the poor and needy, so it's all good.  :lol

Those programs that have been doing so well for the past 50 years?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1654 on: December 04, 2017, 12:11:55 PM »
And I'm sure the government is going to spend its new windfall on welfare programs to help the poor and needy, so it's all good.  :lol

Those programs that have been doing so well for the past 50 years?
Yup. Those very ones.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1655 on: December 04, 2017, 12:14:37 PM »
And I'm sure the government is going to spend its new windfall on welfare programs to help the poor and needy, so it's all good.  :lol

Those programs that have been doing so well for the past 50 years?

So just not try anymore?
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1656 on: December 04, 2017, 12:21:37 PM »
Or try something different?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1657 on: December 04, 2017, 12:24:23 PM »
Or try something different?

I would love that! I think Barto was just talking about helping poor people in general, not just trying the same failing programs over and over.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1658 on: December 04, 2017, 12:47:28 PM »
Or try something different?

I'd like to see a public option for healthcare.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1659 on: December 04, 2017, 01:00:14 PM »
My problem with the tax bill is everything that was added that has nothing to do with a "corporate tax break."

Why are fetuses being recognized as humans in a freaking tax bill?

How about drilling in the Alaskan wildlife refuge?

Why are we now taxing graduate student stipends as income? That makes it literally impossible for many, many students to even consider grad school in the US. Look forward to many high tech grad students in engineering and sciences going to places like Germany, and innovation growing in those places.


I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1660 on: December 04, 2017, 01:05:01 PM »
Unrelated items in a bill?

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1661 on: December 04, 2017, 01:15:29 PM »
I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.

And we SHOULD have a problem with it.  Pushing a massive bill through by the majority party when nobody has time to read or seriously debate it is just the wrong way to get something done.  But ACA was the same.  This has become the political norm, unfortunately.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1662 on: December 04, 2017, 01:16:15 PM »
My problem with the tax bill is everything that was added that has nothing to do with a "corporate tax break."

Why are fetuses being recognized as humans in a freaking tax bill?

How about drilling in the Alaskan wildlife refuge?

Why are we now taxing graduate student stipends as income? That makes it literally impossible for many, many students to even consider grad school in the US. Look forward to many high tech grad students in engineering and sciences going to places like Germany, and innovation growing in those places.


I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.
I think they're also taxing the value of their tuition as income, so it's actually worse than that. The congressman (GOP) I heard talking about it last night agreed that it was bullshit and was hoping that they'd take it out during reconciliation. Guess we'll just have to pass the thing to see what's actually in it.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1663 on: December 04, 2017, 01:18:45 PM »
I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.

And we SHOULD have a problem with it.  Pushing a massive bill through by the majority party when nobody has time to read or seriously debate it is just the wrong way to get something done.  But ACA was the same.  This has become the political norm, unfortunately.
They're really not the same.

Quote
The ACA made it out of committee in the House of Representatives in July 2009, after a month-long markup and 160 Republican amendments. The House didnít vote on it until November 7th.

In 2010, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over the course of 13 days marking up the legislation that would become the ACA.

The Senate Finance Committee held 53 meetings about the ACA and an eight-day markup of the bill, which was the longest markup for the committee in over 20 years. The committee considered 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes.

There were 44 hearings and public events about the plan in the Senate alone.

The bill was signed into law in March 2010, 8 months after it emerged from committee in the House.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1664 on: December 04, 2017, 01:21:40 PM »
I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.

And we SHOULD have a problem with it.  Pushing a massive bill through by the majority party when nobody has time to read or seriously debate it is just the wrong way to get something done.  But ACA was the same.  This has become the political norm, unfortunately.

I was reading that the draft that was voted on had stuff written in smudged pencil in the margins. Because this wasn't a digital copy, they had to use copy machines to duplicate it. People were receiving copies that were not aligned properly when they were copied and were therefore missing what was handwritten in those margins. Also, this was rushed through way faster than the ACA was.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1665 on: December 04, 2017, 01:47:08 PM »
They're really not the same.

Quote
The ACA made it out of committee in the House of Representatives in July 2009, after a month-long markup and 160 Republican amendments. The House didnít vote on it until November 7th.

In 2010, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over the course of 13 days marking up the legislation that would become the ACA.

The Senate Finance Committee held 53 meetings about the ACA and an eight-day markup of the bill, which was the longest markup for the committee in over 20 years. The committee considered 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes.

There were 44 hearings and public events about the plan in the Senate alone.

The bill was signed into law in March 2010, 8 months after it emerged from committee in the House.

Let's not get all revisionist history about the ACA and pretend like it was a textbook process of Congress.....It was just as shady and was slammed through in a disgusting manner as well at a time when 7/10 DID NOT want that bill to be passed. As Bosk said....the tax bill is just another example of business as usual by a group of people who have declared themselves elite and above us common folk. We mean sh%t to these people. period.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/06/22/history-lesson-how-the-democrats-pushed-obamacare-through-the-senate/?utm_term=.8830984025af

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physiciansfoundation/2014/03/26/a-look-back-at-how-the-president-was-able-to-sign-obamacare-into-law-four-years-ago/#22c49c5d526b

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/22/us-healthcare-bill-passes-congress



All told, from the Friday night, Dec. 18, when Nelson and Boxer agreed to abortion language, to the Thursday morning/Christmas Eve of final passage, there were about five days of consideration for the final bill in the Senate.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1666 on: December 04, 2017, 05:22:24 PM »
^Exactly.  We can pick apart the differences.  But for the point I was making--which is that unilaterally ramming legislation through when opponents are not in a position to mount an effective opposition has increasingly become the norm--the differences are inconsequential.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1667 on: December 04, 2017, 05:32:23 PM »
^Exactly.  We can pick apart the differences.  But for the point I was making--which is that unilaterally ramming legislation through when opponents are not in a position to mount an effective opposition has increasingly become the norm--the differences are inconsequential.
I'm fine with that, and I agree. I was pushing back about no time to read or debate part. When everything they do comes with artificial deadlines to stifle debate (even among one's own constituents) it's a pretty different problem.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1668 on: December 04, 2017, 06:43:29 PM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.
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Offline Cable

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1669 on: December 04, 2017, 06:54:06 PM »
My problem with the tax bill is everything that was added that has nothing to do with a "corporate tax break."

Why are fetuses being recognized as humans in a freaking tax bill?

How about drilling in the Alaskan wildlife refuge?

Why are we now taxing graduate student stipends as income? That makes it literally impossible for many, many students to even consider grad school in the US. Look forward to many high tech grad students in engineering and sciences going to places like Germany, and innovation growing in those places.


I have no problem with the idea of a corporate tax break. I have a problem with how this was implemented.
I think they're also taxing the value of their tuition as income, so it's actually worse than that. The congressman (GOP) I heard talking about it last night agreed that it was bullshit and was hoping that they'd take it out during reconciliation. Guess we'll just have to pass the thing to see what's actually in it.


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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1670 on: December 05, 2017, 07:33:47 AM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.

I hear you. This is why I've been voting to get new blood in there. And I also think this is a big reason why Trump is president. A big part was Clinton but I truly believe that the average middle class joe is fed up with the career politician. It may take a few more years but I ultimately think Trump's legacy will not be the tweets or the pussy grabbing, it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics. These old bastards who have been office for decades are going to be the minority in another decade.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1671 on: December 05, 2017, 07:41:12 AM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.

I hear you. This is why I've been voting to get new blood in there. And I also think this is a big reason why Trump is president. A big part was Clinton but I truly believe that the average middle class joe is fed up with the career politician. It may take a few more years but I ultimately think Trump's legacy will not be the tweets or the pussy grabbing, it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics. These old bastards who have been office for decades are going to be the minority in another decade.

I sort of get what you're saying, but aren't you worried about getting a lot more Trumps along the way?

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1672 on: December 05, 2017, 07:56:42 AM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.

I hear you. This is why I've been voting to get new blood in there. And I also think this is a big reason why Trump is president. A big part was Clinton but I truly believe that the average middle class joe is fed up with the career politician. It may take a few more years but I ultimately think Trump's legacy will not be the tweets or the pussy grabbing, it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics. These old bastards who have been office for decades are going to be the minority in another decade.

I sort of get what you're saying, but aren't you worried about getting a lot more Trumps along the way?

I'm more concerned with getting a guy that thinks like Trump but can talk like Obama.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1673 on: December 05, 2017, 08:06:43 AM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.

I hear you. This is why I've been voting to get new blood in there. And I also think this is a big reason why Trump is president. A big part was Clinton but I truly believe that the average middle class joe is fed up with the career politician. It may take a few more years but I ultimately think Trump's legacy will not be the tweets or the pussy grabbing, it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics. These old bastards who have been office for decades are going to be the minority in another decade.
. . .but probably should be.
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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1674 on: December 05, 2017, 08:08:21 AM »
I don't think the US has hit a rock bottom so of course there is always a worry of someone worse than Trump.  But we still have checks and balances, Trump hasn't ruined the country because he can't really do anything too drastic without the rest of congress.  He's pretty hated on both sides.  I'd think anyone worse than Trump would still be faced with the same issues.  Hopefully we don't get to that point, and I don't think we will personally.  This presidential run hopefully gets both sides to have some more respect for the next president and put up better candidates for their respective parties. 

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1675 on: December 05, 2017, 09:52:31 AM »
it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics.

You just have to be filthy rich and use foreign power to influence the outcome of the election.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1676 on: December 05, 2017, 09:53:45 AM »
I've never claimed to be some tax code scholar but every report I've seen on it tells me that the corporate tax breaks are permanent, and the rest are not, meaning even if the middle class gets some cuts in the near future, over time it's going to creep back up again while the corporations have their permanent break - that Trump himself will save quite a lot of money on this despite proclaiming it to be "a big win for the middle class." My problem isn't inherently with the rich, it's with the way politicians and government act like they care about the average person but in reality are partial to those with the most money.

Also, what EB said. Like the government knows how to spend money well.

So what?  Do you know why that's important?   Thankfully, Uncle Stadler is here to tell you.   If you don't make them permanent, then you have a sliding scale for calculation and reporting of taxes.   Stock price is, at it's most basic level, a measure of future income.   If you keep the change "temporary" it becomes almost impossible to plan for future "repatriations".  It also provides no incentive for those countries that DIDN'T expand globally because of the onerous tax policies.    SO you get a one-time windfall, and then the revenue dries up, AND you don't get any new companies playing globally on the presumption that, say, 10 years from now they can safely and cost-effectively repatriate their earnings.   As such, stock prices now likely FALL because you have a bubble of income, and a limited window of opportunity.  It's all about stability and predictability - even if it is only the perception of same - which breeds "consumer confidence", which is at heart the biggest reason we have had record stock numbers over the past year. 

No such factors play in on the individual side.   Part of the problem is the liberal nomenclature of "TAX CUTS".   Yes, we're effectively reducing the tax rate for both groups, but it's not at all the same thing.   The individual tax "cuts" take the form of a revised tax bracket, but also a revision to the various metrics in the equation, like the amount of the personal deduction, etc.  By making them TEMPORARY, you have to revisit them in a couple years and revise the numbers.    Sure, we run the risk of having a tax and spend Democrat legislature, but in that event, it doesn't matter whether they were "temporary" or "permanent", because they can be changed anyway.   

TL;DR:   "Permanent" changes on the corporate side are good in that it provides a measure of certainty, which promotes good decision-making by corporations, and gives investors incentive to fund those decisions.   "Temporary" changes on the individual side are good in that it provides a measure of accountability to revisit the rates, where even small changes have a much bigger impact on individuals. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1677 on: December 05, 2017, 09:54:55 AM »
Or try something different?

I would love that! I think Barto was just talking about helping poor people in general, not just trying the same failing programs over and over.

Of course, one has to assume that "giving programs" to the poor is the best way to help them.    Jury's out on that one, at least in the Stadler household.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1678 on: December 05, 2017, 10:00:37 AM »
Or try something different?

I would love that! I think Barto was just talking about helping poor people in general, not just trying the same failing programs over and over.

Of course, one has to assume that "giving programs" to the poor is the best way to help them.    Jury's out on that one, at least in the Stadler household.

the 1930's called and said the jury decided long ass time ago  ;)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #1679 on: December 05, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »
Is there any other way to describe the Politicians in Washington other than elitist? None of them are in touch with reality as 'we' see and live it. They are in an entire different realm of living where even the laws they enact don't apply to them. Sure, every now and then there is a sacrificial lamb so to speak where one of them gets nailed and presented to the common folk as a participation trophy but all in all they've created an entire new class of people that are so devoid of what it means to have to actually live in the country they're supposedly running....it's reached a level that'd be comical if it weren't so frightening.

I hear you. This is why I've been voting to get new blood in there. And I also think this is a big reason why Trump is president. A big part was Clinton but I truly believe that the average middle class joe is fed up with the career politician. It may take a few more years but I ultimately think Trump's legacy will not be the tweets or the pussy grabbing, it will be that he showed you don't have to be a politician to be in politics. These old bastards who have been office for decades are going to be the minority in another decade.

I go both ways on this.  I think there has to be a middle ground.  I feel like it is almost negligence that we elected a guy that has LITERALLY never held elected office to the most powerful position on the planet, but then again, career opportunist politicians like Hillary Clinton disgust me equally.    I've never been a fan, but - lest anyone say that "no one ever changes their mind!" - I'm starting to think that term limits are necessary.  We can't have more Nancy Pelosi's and Mitch McConnell's, who's very job is to preserve their position in their respective Chamber.  I used to think that that 'preservation' would keep them honest, keep them from taking too radical a position, but we've certainly shot that idea to hell. 

I think we need politicians that KNOW THE PROCESS better than Trump does, but also who have a touch with the people.  Who work with the people and who are PART of the people.  Hillary Clinton (or Donald Trump for that matter) hasn't been a "regular citizen" for DECADES, and even then she was part of the elite.  The Left screams "RACISM!!!!" as loud as they can to explain the loss in November, but I think this played the biggest part of that; you had the grass-roots campaign of Obama - legendary; we'll be talking about that campaign 50 years from now - and then you had an elitist who couldn't even be bothered to visit the STATE of Wisconsin or Michigan.

I was living in Philly in '08, and my daughter went to school at a private school* in the city, right across the street from a Sheraton Hotel.   During the primaries, this young upstart from Chicago was in town campaigning, and as I was going to pick up my daughter at school, I noticed a crowd in the street - the kind that group around a bad accident or something like that.   Turns out, it was Barack, who LITERALLY walked out the front door of his hotel and started glad-handing.   Shaking hands, talking to people.  I'm sure they were there, but I never saw any real security  and though I didn't actually see HIM - he's a liberal (I'm kidding; I had to get my kid and get out of the traffic else I'd sit there for HOURS) - it was refreshing on at least one level.  I'm sure she went, but I don't actually recall one appearance by Hillary in the city.