Dear Dream Theater

[phospheneSOI]

Higher ticket prices are designed by the band intentionally. They're getting up there in age and the last thing they need is to throw a hip trying to strike a rock 'n roll pose for a large audience of enthusiastic, young, poor, fans. This way, the audience will be more their age and income level which is easier to relate to. Plus, they get no grief from the wife about young groupies in the front row screaming and pulling their hair out. Instead, the front row is filled with pot bellied men, with full wallets, who don't have any hair left to pull out. More money for merch, too.

It's actually quite clever when you think about it.

You say clever, I say depressing.

All of my friends and myself are well educated and talented, and none of us are earning over £20k a year... we're nearly 30.

[rumborak]

https://youtu.be/DF5BEcahu2Q?t=384

Dear Dream Theater, you gotta bridge those 3 meters to the audience.

[noxon]

i don't think necessarily they have a choice of where to place stuff on the stage...

[rumborak]

Lol wut? It's probably the single thing a musician gets asked about before the gig, where on stage he wants his equipment. I'm pretty sure they weren't told "sorry guys, you have to be at least 10 feet from the edge".

[Mladen]

That reminds me of the Vancouver footage from Chaos in motion, I've always wondered why they sometimes place the equipment so far away from the end of the stage. It makes no sense to me. Hopefully someone has some insight and can clarify that.

[cramx3]

https://youtu.be/DF5BEcahu2Q?t=384

Dear Dream Theater, you gotta bridge those 3 meters to the audience.

Totally agree, there is a lot of unnecessary space between the band and the fans and that only adds to the divide between the band and the fans (and the perception of there being a divide). 

Also, I forgot to add this to my list earlier today, but they also refused to give out the set list at the last show I was at.  I found that to be odd because that's usually a very much sought after piece of the live concert experience and they flat out refused to give them to anyone (the crew was quite rude about it too).  Also the no phones/cameras policy of the last tour really hurts the fan experience of sharing your experience with others and a way to spread the music.  I understand the reasons for that policy last tour, but just stating that I think things like that hurt the fan base, not help it even if some really enjoyed that rule. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Lol wut? It's probably the single thing a musician gets asked about before the gig, where on stage he wants his equipment. I'm pretty sure they weren't told "sorry guys, you have to be at least 10 feet from the edge".

That's a very odd shaped stage so I bet they have to be that far back because that's where the lighting rig is set up.  Have we ever seen them that far back?  I don't remember any time they were.  Why would they all of the sudden have one show where they were back that far?  Obviously it is beyond their control. 

[MinistroRaven]

From what I understand, DT themselves don't make the price. DT's tour manager sells the concert - it's up to the promoters who buy the concert to charge whatever they see fit to make a profit. Sure if their concert costs less the promoter need to pay less as well, but it's not DT themselves who decide the ticket price.

I don't believe this for a second.  When you are successful as DT has been, you can have a major say in how much you charge for tickets.

Of course DT has a major say on the ticket prices, they are the ones selling the concert to the promoters (I don't have the real numbers, but lets say that 5 years ago they (their manager) sold the show for $20000 the night, and now, 5 years later they are selling the same show for $100000 that will surely translate into a more expensive ticket, so yeah, DT has a major say in the ticket prices.

[MinistroRaven]

What hasn't dt done for the fans since mp left?

Rotating setlist, official bootleg releases (through Ytsejam Records and the Fan clubs), surprises every single Christmas morning, info about the recording process of new material to name a few

[rumborak]

Lol wut? It's probably the single thing a musician gets asked about before the gig, where on stage he wants his equipment. I'm pretty sure they weren't told "sorry guys, you have to be at least 10 feet from the edge".

That's a very odd shaped stage so I bet they have to be that far back because that's where the lighting rig is set up.  Have we ever seen them that far back?  I don't remember any time they were.  Why would they all of the sudden have one show where they were back that far?  Obviously it is beyond their control.

How does this even make sense? Birmingham has a venue that can't light the front half of the stage?

Not only that, but the spotlights are always coming from the back. There's zero reason for any of them to stay in the back the whole time, even if their equipment is back there.

[bosk1]

  What, you've never heard the famous song, "The Strange Lights of Birmingham?"  That's a classic, man!

[CB]

That stage was so too big (and looked so wrong for the band) it's ridiculous. I doubt it would have been possible, technically, to put everyhing in front, with not much time to think about it. I just can't imagine the band wants that distance, usually they are very close to the audience.

It seems they finally changed some melodies to adapt to JLBs voice. I'm glad they do (well, I always loved his middle and darker range the most), I hope it's not a problem for the majority of the fans.

 

[cramx3]

From what I understand, DT themselves don't make the price. DT's tour manager sells the concert - it's up to the promoters who buy the concert to charge whatever they see fit to make a profit. Sure if their concert costs less the promoter need to pay less as well, but it's not DT themselves who decide the ticket price.

I don't believe this for a second.  When you are successful as DT has been, you can have a major say in how much you charge for tickets.

Of course DT has a major say on the ticket prices, they are the ones selling the concert to the promoters (I don't have the real numbers, but lets say that 5 years ago they (their manager) sold the show for $20000 the night, and now, 5 years later they are selling the same show for $100000 that will surely translate into a more expensive ticket, so yeah, DT has a major say in the ticket prices.

Most bands have little to no say in the ticket prices.  The ones who do are typically the bands much bigger than DT. 

[phospheneSOI]

That stage was so too big (and looked so wrong for the band) it's ridiculous. I doubt it would have been possible, technically, to put everyhing in front, with not much time to think about it. I just can't imagine the band wants that distance, usually they are very close to the audience.

Tonight in Manchester.

[Adami]

Maybe they need all that space for the elephant in the room?

[bosk1]

That's strange.  Why are those stages so deep?

[cramx3]

Maybe they need all that space for the elephant in the room?

They need to break the 4th wall!

[CB]

Maybe they need all that space for the elephant in the room?

I guess it's usually needed for the orchestra.

[King Postwhore]

Higher ticket prices are designed by the band intentionally. They're getting up there in age and the last thing they need is to throw a hip trying to strike a rock 'n roll pose for a large audience of enthusiastic, young, poor, fans. This way, the audience will be more their age and income level which is easier to relate to. Plus, they get no grief from the wife about young groupies in the front row screaming and pulling their hair out. Instead, the front row is filled with pot bellied men, with full wallets, who don't have any hair left to pull out. More money for merch, too.

It's actually quite clever when you think about it.

You forgot to add that it's also quite prejudiced and discriminatory..

To each their own, I just prefer to have the band I am paying to see acknowledge the crowd's presence.  It was only that one concert (TA in NJ last fall) that gave me that impression.  I've seen them 14 times now and I've enjoyed every experience so I'm not trying to be hard on the band, just being honest with my feelings.  Some people obviously don't care about that interaction, but I personally like that in a live setting, makes you feel apart of the show.

Fair enough.. I guess I've never thought of it.. I happen to just want to go and see them playing; never cared about what the artists say in between the songs or at the end of the show..

Someday, you'll take your serious stick out of your butt ToT-147 and catch sarcasm. 

[bosk1]

Who put the sticks up their butts?

[King Postwhore]

Their imaginary friend that has the "no sense of humor stick."

[goo-goo]

i don't think necessarily they have a choice of where to place stuff on the stage...

They have a rider with the minimum stage requirements. So if the stage is big enough (which is obviously the case in those two screenshots), then the band accepted the theater/venue. If the stage didn't fulfill the stage requirements, then the band would have rejected the venue and the promoter would either choose a different venue, or not bring the concert to the city where the promoter wanted the show.

The videos from earlier DT shows (90s era) show cramped/small stages which is normal for bands when they start. As the band grows, typically the stage is bigger (i.e. bigger venue, more people). DT has gotten pretty big (specially in Europe and Asia) compared to the 90s. It's only logical that they play in such big stages. There might be some other venues in the city that would have been more suitable for DT but maybe those were not available for this particular date.

[KevShmev]

What hasn't dt done for the fans since mp left?

Rotating setlist, official bootleg releases (through Ytsejam Records and the Fan clubs), surprises every single Christmas morning, info about the recording process of new material to name a few

They rotated set lists on the ADTOE tour.

The rest is nitpicking. I am sure we could think of some equally nitpicky things the band has done since 2010 that they never did with Portnoy. 

[Skeever]

The difference between what MP did and what the other guys do is a lot more intangible. I think the guys have definitely checked most of the "things MP did" boxes, so I'd really have to work to articulate the rest, and I'm not sure that's even on topic 

[CrimsonSunrise]

Instead, the front row is filled with pot bellied men, with full wallets, who don't have any hair left to pull out.

Now wait a minute Man!   

[TheAtliator]

I think that they don't equate crowd standing/jumping/interaction with a good show. They explained in several interviews on the TA tour that they noticed audiences were more often just sitting and intently listening/watching the show. And while it was weird to get used to and not have that extra energy boost it was neat in its own way. Each approach has its benefits and they're exploring this approach.

I actually really enjoyed just watching the Astonishing show. Not that it was sleepy or anything, but it was a neat change up from a rowdy concert vibe. I still wouldn't suggest doing it for every tour.

I thought it was the best DT concert I've seen.

It's funny because I kind of gave some negative criticism specifically for the NJ TA show I went to, but it actually was probably my favorite DT concert out of the 14 I've been to.  Performance was great and I was front row which I had never been before, I also really enjoy TA so it was great.

Yeah, you've got to read these forums with the clear notion in mind that our critiques are of small details within a bigger thing we all enjoy GREATLY. And we can talk for longer about things we would change than things we thought were perfect. Because if you think something is perfect you come up with an adjective like "awesome", say it, and move on 

[mikeyd23]

What hasn't dt done for the fans since mp left?

Rotating setlist, official bootleg releases (through Ytsejam Records and the Fan clubs), surprises every single Christmas morning, info about the recording process of new material to name a few

They rotated set lists on the ADTOE tour.

The rest is nitpicking. I am sure we could think of some equally nitpicky things the band has done since 2010 that they never did with Portnoy.

And also gave a great surprise on Christmas morning representing that ADTOE tour.

As to the stage depth question - it looks like their front of house speakers are possibly prohibiting them setting up closer to the edge of the stage. In a lot of instances, James probably wouldn't be able to go out in front of those mains, or else his mic would feedback, same would apply to JP's vocal mic set up over his pedal board. 

[noxon]

The stages are deep because they're made for theater and symphony productions.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/19/19/de/symphony-hall.jpg

The roof construction seem to limit placements quite a bit. Remember, theres a lighting rig AND a sound rig that needs to be mounted in the roof there.

It looks like something similar is going on in Manchester:
https://madebybound.co.uk/photos/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/MARK7345.jpg
https://assets3.radiox.co.uk/2015/48/the-crowd-at-the-o2-apollo-manchester-1449140433-view-0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/marklatham-site%2F381-hatebreed-manchester-apollo-26-02-2010-20100227/Hatebreed-Manchester-DSC2825.jpg



So, as I said, I don't think its something the BAND does intentionally. In fact - all 5 shows i saw with them this year had them "on the edge of the stage" - as you can see on the "backstage" video the fanclub put out.

[MirrorMask]

I took it for granted that DT find themselves in an already existing venue rather than going "Nah, this audience sucks, please put them as far away from us as possible" 

[MinistroRaven]

What hasn't dt done for the fans since mp left?

Rotating setlist, official bootleg releases (through Ytsejam Records and the Fan clubs), surprises every single Christmas morning, info about the recording process of new material to name a few

They rotated set lists on the ADTOE tour.

The rest is nitpicking. I am sure we could think of some equally nitpicky things the band has done since 2010 that they never did with Portnoy.

 Nitpicking? Really? Whatever.

They released more material through the bootleg department (ytsejam and fan clubs) than official releases through any other label.

Whould you list those nitpicking things they've done since 2010 that they never did with MP?

[rumborak]

That's a world of difference though. Look at the horizontal cabling running in front of the floor monitor for Hatebreed, it almost touches those stage indentations on each side. Now look at JP's floor monitor cable, where that goes.

[bosk1]

They release more material through the bootleg department (ytsejam and fan clubs) than official releases through any other label.

Well, they did release a lot through those avenues, yes.  But that was also not really sustainable.  Mike's vaults are huge.  I don't underestimate that, because the guy kept EVERYTHING.  But the thing is, a great deal of what fans would really want and pay for has already been put out there.  Ytsejam was slowing down during the Roadrunner years with Portnoy, and there is a reason for that. 

[nobloodyname]

I will be seeing them for the 2nd time this tour next week in Tilburg.

I would be a little disappointed if they play the exact same set as they did the first show (also Tilburg) but still be  a happy fan.

Prepare to be disappointed.  The setlist is what it is.

I am checking with the band to see (1) if they are planning on making any changes to the set list, and (2) whether I can share the answer to question #1.  I will let you all know if there is any information I can share one way or the other.

According to setlist.fm last nights show was the same setlist from the first leg.  Not sure if it's accurate or not though.

I can confirm the setlist for Birmingham had no changes from the previous dates.

I can also confirm the stage set-up for Birmingham looked ridiculous, whatever the reason. Same as with London Palladium show last year.

[Prog Snob]

So, now people are complaining about stage space...    Get a fucking hobby already. What's next - criticizing their haircuts? Oh wait...

[noxon]

That's a world of difference though. Look at the horizontal cabling running in front of the floor monitor for Hatebreed, it almost touches those stage indentations on each side. Now look at JP's floor monitor cable, where that goes.

Not really. The drum rizers and the monitors are placed almost as far back. it just seems that they're closer because there's more clutter on the stage and people are in front of their monitors.