Author Topic: Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo  (Read 305508 times)

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Offline jakepriest

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #910 on: August 05, 2017, 12:16:15 PM »

@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Musi  is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

So basically MP fans.  :lol

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #911 on: August 05, 2017, 12:18:22 PM »

@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Musi  is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

So basically MP fans.  :lol

 :rollin
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline The Silent Cody

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #912 on: August 05, 2017, 12:25:31 PM »
I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #913 on: August 05, 2017, 12:57:29 PM »
I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....

We can't know what's on his head, but think that he started doing side projects before leaving DT.. So back then it'd have been impossible for him to think like that.. And now he's doing what he already said he would do: being in these so many bands, regardless if they're permanent bands or just temporary projects..

Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music.. His personal confrontation with DT comes more from the side of things he says publicly about them, not from what he does musically.
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Offline The Silent Cody

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #914 on: August 05, 2017, 01:52:53 PM »
I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....

We can't know what's on his head, but think that he started doing side projects before leaving DT.. So back then it'd have been impossible for him to think like that.. And now he's doing what he already said he would do: being in these so many bands, regardless if they're permanent bands or just temporary projects..

Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music.. His personal confrontation with DT comes more from the side of things he says publicly about them, not from what he does musically.
I hope You're right, I'm thinking the same way. I obviously don't know him personal, but it seems like a funny straight forward person who loves what he's doing.

Online MirrorMask

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #915 on: August 06, 2017, 03:10:03 AM »
Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music..

I agree, I don't think that should ever be in doubt - I remember reading a post somewhere from a dude attending I believe a cruise or another, and that he remembered doing a cover MP did a quite particular fill that was in the song and that the dude liked... he was like "He organized the cruise, took care of all the organization, put together all the setlist and still he remembered while playing a cover to do the exact drum fill that was on the original song", this is just an example of how the guy is just passionate about music, and how he remembers a lot of stuff just like a passionate fan would do.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #916 on: August 06, 2017, 07:02:57 AM »
Still, Portnoy is clever... He could have asked Eric Gillette and Conner Green for the band but he didn't. He chose big names, people who are well known in the music industry. Don't you think he *also* wants to make a little money.. next to the music loving thing?
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Offline ErHaO

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #917 on: August 06, 2017, 07:16:05 AM »
Offcourse he wants this project to be a success. Bigger names not only mean more money, they also lead to bigger concert attendance and increase chances to play in bigger venues, have better slots at festivals, and have better promotion and tour circumstances in general. And, in case this band also goes on hiatus, getting the most exposure possible is good for any artist involved for the sake of their careers outside of this band. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #918 on: August 06, 2017, 08:46:21 AM »


@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking. 

Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.

Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).

Offline cramx3

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #919 on: August 06, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »
I think competition often leads to better products

Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights?  That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle. 

I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to.  But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band?  So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music.  I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something.  Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #920 on: August 06, 2017, 10:20:57 AM »
But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band?

Then it's Haken
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #921 on: August 06, 2017, 10:44:43 AM »


@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking. 

Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.

Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).
Great example, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Derek has always come off as a classy guy, I see him trying to invoke a friendly competition with DT and I find it exciting. If this project lives up to the hype, DT will be motivated to do something even better.

I think competition often leads to better products

Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights?  That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle. 

I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to.  But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band?  So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music.  I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something.  Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.
Yup. And if it was to get back at old band mates then the music would inevitably not be very good. Like you said, it sounds like this was a natural progression for MP. The competition is just a bonus.

Another example: This is like when Bruce Dickinson started making metal again. I'm not implying there's a reunion coming out of this, but it definitely lit a fire under Maiden imo.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #922 on: August 06, 2017, 03:05:32 PM »
I don't really wan't to see more of the MP vs DT thing, but I do think, as some of you have said, that great things can come out of competition. To give another example, just look at how Megadeth was created. Mustaine was fired from Metallica and he hated the guys so much for that, that he wanted to make a heavier, faster, more agressive band, and he surely did.  :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #923 on: August 06, 2017, 03:56:19 PM »
@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking. 

Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.

Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).
Great example, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Derek has always come off as a classy guy, I see him trying to invoke a friendly competition with DT and I find it exciting. If this project lives up to the hype, DT will be motivated to do something even better.

I think competition often leads to better products

Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights?  That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle. 

I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to.  But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band?  So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music.  I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something.  Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.
Yup. And if it was to get back at old band mates then the music would inevitably not be very good. Like you said, it sounds like this was a natural progression for MP. The competition is just a bonus.

Another example: This is like when Bruce Dickinson started making metal again. I'm not implying there's a reunion coming out of this, but it definitely lit a fire under Maiden imo.

My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..

All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #924 on: August 06, 2017, 11:51:44 PM »
Happy for Jeff Scott Soto. Ron Thal is ok, kinda hoping something more along the lines of Bruce Kulick.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #925 on: August 07, 2017, 08:18:08 AM »
https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/

Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...

Exactly what I thought of when I read it. Also, I didn't really like the way he talked about Jordan, makig it sound like he and JP are just cyborgs, but that's another topic of discussion. What I do find funny is the fact that he talks about his relationship with Mike as if they were always the best music partners ever, when, in reality, Mike was one of the first people to want to replace Derek with Jordan, he's even said multiple times (and in the last few years) that he still thinks it was a good call to fire him. I don't think Derek is considering all the facts here.

Why not let the guy that was IN the moment make that call?    We have no idea what was ACTUALLY said, what was ACTUALLY discussed, and what the ACTUAL emotions were at the time (or now).   If that's how Derek sees it, he was there, he had a front row seat.   He may or may not be weighing each fact at the same weight, but that's his prerogative, isn't it?

Quote

Also, something that I haven't seem discussed here is that this is, according to Mike, his new "main band"... which he also said for AMOB at first (see how that turned out) and, later, TWD (inactive since 2015 and now in hiatus for, at least, a couple more years). I do wonder if SOA will be a real priority for him if he's gonna treat it as just another band he's in for now. The potential for this band being big is already there, I hope Mike decides to do something with that.

I called TWD right at the get go, and that's not because Mike decided it wasn't a real priority.  That was because Richie decided he wanted to do something different.  He always struck me as a solo guy who dabbles in bands, as opposed to a guy that wants to be in bands and did some solo stuff on the side.    As for AMOB, well, I can't speak for that, as I've not heard anything specific about it, but one can speculate that it didn't go in a direction that Mike wanted it to, and I think it's VERY telling - to the point of being the only real point that matters - that Mike has made clear that THIS is not only his priority, but that he's back in terms of being "band leader".  He didn't lead AMOB (I believe that is Mike Orlando) and he's not really the main guy in TWD either (I believe that TWD are at the whim of Richie Kotzen). 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #926 on: August 07, 2017, 08:24:21 AM »
I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.

About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so  it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.

I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.

I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime.   As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became.  It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully.  As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault.  I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project.  I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments. 

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #927 on: August 07, 2017, 08:30:46 AM »
@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..

I disagree with that to a degree.  There has been some great, great music made from people with something to prove, and a little healthy competition or creative tension can do wonders for a band.   The Stones.   Much of the Stones catalogue after 1975 is a reaction by either Mick or Keith to top something the other has done.    I don't think you can say that there wasn't at least a LITTLE "fuck you!" in the creation of Heaven and Hell/Mob Rules versus Blizzard of Ozz/Diary of a Madman.   

Slightly different circumstances, but the 90's Yes catalogue is often a result of some friendly (and not so friendly) competition.   Megadeth's entire career has been built on the "not at all friendly" competition with Metallica.    Van Halen; I think ADKOT is a direct result of Dave saying "I have something to prove here!".  Pink Floyd.   

It's not that the MUSIC ITSELF is the basis of the competition, but I absolutely do agree that from a human standpoint, when some people get pushed up against the wall and find themselves in a competitive environment, it affects what they're doing, and often for the positive.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #928 on: August 07, 2017, 08:35:47 AM »
My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..

All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..

Isn't that up to the people involved?   All people are motivated by different things; sometimes even against their will.   Not music, but Phil Simms is a great example; he hated his coach - Bill Parcells - at the time because Parcells was mercilous in how he pushed Phil.  Now?  Phil readily admits that even though he didn't like it at all, Parcells made him a far better player than he ever would have been without him.   Meanwhile, Lawrence Taylor (on the same team) was allowed to party, and hang with hookers and blow even the night before games, because that's how LT came ready to play.   Trying to "chain him down" didn't work and stifled his playing instinct.  So Parcells let him have his head.   

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #929 on: August 07, 2017, 08:38:34 AM »
I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.

About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so  it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.

I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.

I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime.   As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became.  It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully.  As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault.  I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project.  I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments. 
The things you point out are fair.  Maybe they mean something, and maybe not.  But it is also fair to point out that, as Kev said, there is indeed a pattern.  If Mike wasn't in control of the situation, then maybe he shouldn't have spouted off about those other projects being full time and his "main thing," or whatever language he used.  Maybe the factors you mentioned do make this project distinct from those others.  Then again, maybe not.  It's not unfair to observe a pattern and be skeptical until Mike and/or the passage of time proves otherwise.  That's absolutely fair game as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #930 on: August 07, 2017, 08:52:20 AM »
For myself, I'm not interested in "public" competition between DT and MP.  If wanting to one up DT is motivation for MP and DS, and as a result they produce a better album, that's great.  They could do it without bringing DT into it in interviews, etc.  If they can't, and they actually need some kind of public feud to bring out the best in themselves creatively, so be it, but I hope DT doesn't participate in it.  Right now I'm just saying if - basing on what others are saying about competition.  I don't know that MP actually wants to start something.  That 3 part interview he recently did was great and I hope he keeps up with the positivity.  Derek's interview - I don't know if it was really "us vs them" but I think it was purposely over the top (which I think he can be).  The JR/JP cyborg comment was unnecessary.  Claiming that MP invented prog metal - definitely over the top.  Not even MP would say that. 

If they go down the road of trying to compete or draw blabbermouth headlines, etc, I hope DT just continues to do what they do and that they disregard it. 

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #931 on: August 07, 2017, 09:00:44 AM »
I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.

About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so  it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.

I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.

I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime.   As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became.  It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully.  As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault.  I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project.  I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments. 
The things you point out are fair.  Maybe they mean something, and maybe not.  But it is also fair to point out that, as Kev said, there is indeed a pattern.  If Mike wasn't in control of the situation, then maybe he shouldn't have spouted off about those other projects being full time and his "main thing," or whatever language he used.  Maybe the factors you mentioned do make this project distinct from those others.  Then again, maybe not.  It's not unfair to observe a pattern and be skeptical until Mike and/or the passage of time proves otherwise.  That's absolutely fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Patterns ARE fair game, no question.  No argument.  I think here, though, the pattern isn't "Mike bloviating about serious bands being the full time commitment then blowing it off and moving on to something else", I think the pattern is "Mike trusting others are as committed as he is to the cause".   Look, I'm not being a Mike apologist here; I'm BAFFLED that he didn't see the Kotzen thing coming.  I'm an idiot, and the first thing I said when they were talking about it being a "main thing" was "why are Mike and Bill putting their eggs in the Kotzen basket?  I don't see him AT ALL committing to this long term.". 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #932 on: August 07, 2017, 09:09:11 AM »
I think here, though, the pattern isn't "Mike bloviating about serious bands being the full time commitment then blowing it off and moving on to something else"

Absent the "blowing off" part, which I don't think anybody was saying anyway, I think that's EXACTLY the pattern people are observing.  And I also think it is entirely accurate.  Now maybe there are plenty of distinguishing factors that should be taken into account, and maybe they include the ones you mentioned.  Fair enough.  But the pattern is still there regardless.  And that isn't necessarily a "negative" either.  It just is what it is.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #933 on: August 07, 2017, 09:48:24 AM »
Well, Mike has always been a "speak first, think later" person, and I do think he meant what he said about these bands being his main thing. However, if we talk about AMOB, for example, when Rich Ward and Paul DiLeo quit, even before the album was released, Mike was like "Yeah, no big deal, the core has always been MO, RA and me, only the three of us", but, later, when he quit, he turned it to be something like "Orlando and Allen were the main guys there" (none of these were his exact words, I just remember things happening that way, and I could be wrong about it".

I do believe Mike and Derek when they say this is going to be their main thing now, but I just don't see this happening with people as busy as Billy Sheehan or even Mike himself.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #934 on: August 07, 2017, 09:54:52 AM »
Oh, I believe him that he believes it as well.  I think he believed what he said in the past as well.  Again, I don't think there is any fault or blame here.  Just observation that he has said things like this in the past when maybe he shouldn't have been so quick to say it, and that, again, what ultimately happened was different. 
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #935 on: August 07, 2017, 11:23:49 AM »
Mike should go away from his comfort zone. I mean, his all projects are prog, metal or rock and always with his well known friends (Neal, Billy, Derek...). He should do some project with much more variety of musicians. What could be for example Dream Theater/Pendulum/Periphery/Coldplay style project? I would love to hear some electronic music from MP.
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #936 on: August 07, 2017, 11:57:44 AM »
Why "should" he?  I don't see why "should" even comes into it.  If he isn't interested in a particular type of music, I'm not sure why anyone would want to hear him (or anyone else) do it.  He "should" do what he likes, which is presumably what he is doing.
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Offline SwedishGoose

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #937 on: August 07, 2017, 02:43:11 PM »
Why "should" he?  I don't see why "should" even comes into it.  If he isn't interested in a particular type of music, I'm not sure why anyone would want to hear him (or anyone else) do it.  He "should" do what he likes, which is presumably what he is doing.

Exactly.... He should do what he wants to do and not care too much about what the fans want. If playing with about the same group of peoples brings him happiness then I am all for it. And if I then happen to like the music they put out that is a bonus.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #938 on: August 07, 2017, 04:09:25 PM »
And even if Mike did, you know half of his fans would whine and moan about it. Look at Steven Wilson "going out of his comfort zone", and see what's happening there. Just because someone is doing mostly the same thing with a lot of their albums and projects doesn't mean they *should* do something else. No one is going to force anyone to listen to anything by a single artist. Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned. Mike has always had a fondness for his fans, through good and bad, but he strikes me as the kind of guy who will still do things his way, the way he wants, be it between him and his fans, or him and his bands.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #939 on: August 07, 2017, 04:12:49 PM »
I got to think there's only a small amount of fans that want to see MP doing electronic music

But I do think that working outside your comfort zone does help you grow, however, I don't see any reason MP "should" do that.  He "should" do what he wants and clearly that is a prog metal band with people he's worked with before.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #940 on: August 07, 2017, 04:22:30 PM »
Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned.

Well, no, that's not what I was saying at all, and that's WAY too extreme.  Most successful artists understand that they are where they are because of the fans, so they aren't going to turn completely indifferent to the fans that put them where they are.  But that isn't what I was talking about.  What I was addressing is the audacity of some fans to demand that an artist go far outside the norm and do something that is not remotely like anything the artist has ever done, simply to indulge the whim of said fans who can't be bothered to appreciate the artist's work for what it is.
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #941 on: August 07, 2017, 05:10:53 PM »
Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned.

Well, no, that's not what I was saying at all, and that's WAY too extreme.  Most successful artists understand that they are where they are because of the fans, so they aren't going to turn completely indifferent to the fans that put them where they are.  But that isn't what I was talking about.  What I was addressing is the audacity of some fans to demand that an artist go far outside the norm and do something that is not remotely like anything the artist has ever done, simply to indulge the whim of said fans who can't be bothered to appreciate the artist's work for what it is.

Pardon my misunderstanding then, but I still do agree with your points here at any rate. Some fans can feel so entitled some times, and can be easily offended when a celebrity does just ONE thing wrong or different than what fans expect. We can all like and appreciate different things that our favorite artists and celebrities do, but demanding anything from them seems quite foolish, especially for an artist like Mike, who has actually done a lot for his fans over the years. I never would have dreamed of owning "drum videos" of behind-the-scenes footage from studio sessions, but here I am, with over a dozen MP videos of his drumming, because he knows his fans will like it, so he puts it out there for his fans to enjoy.

As for MP doing electronic stuff, I don't really see it happening. He is firmly rooted in rock and roll, from his earliest influences to his current social circles. The most out-of-his-comfort-zone I've seen him really get is probably doing stuff with Neal Morse, like some of the covers they do, which, while still fundamentally all rock and roll, are pretty unusual choices for a man who champions progressive rock and metal. I think if he were to do anything electronic, it would probably be purely in a production sense, and not really performing, though I don't really see him as "just a producer" when he seems to enjoy playing so much (with exception of his work with Next To None). Maybe after he retires from drumming, he may produce albums, which would be neat.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #942 on: August 07, 2017, 05:15:22 PM »
And I don't disagree with any of that, Marc.
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #943 on: August 07, 2017, 09:56:48 PM »
My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..

All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..

Isn't that up to the people involved?   All people are motivated by different things; sometimes even against their will.   Not music, but Phil Simms is a great example; he hated his coach - Bill Parcells - at the time because Parcells was mercilous in how he pushed Phil.  Now?  Phil readily admits that even though he didn't like it at all, Parcells made him a far better player than he ever would have been without him.   Meanwhile, Lawrence Taylor (on the same team) was allowed to party, and hang with hookers and blow even the night before games, because that's how LT came ready to play.   Trying to "chain him down" didn't work and stifled his playing instinct.  So Parcells let him have his head.     

Again, your examples are no different than the others.. They just describe situations were there was some kind of competition going on, and the final result was better than before.. What you're missing is that that final result is not only possible due to that initial motivation.. First, as you're saying, motivation can come from many different places, but second and third and etc you should have all the elements that you need to do what you're trying to do.. In the music field that would be, besides the motivation, the talent, the patience, the time, the equipment, etc, to actually make the music happen.. You won't need all of them, but at least some of these and many others things (whether physical or psychical) will probably guide you to make good music.. Not competition just for the sake of it.. If a person manages to create something beautiful after getting angry with someone, the magic was all along within that person, and not in that unnamed negative feeling..
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 10:01:57 PM by ToT-147 »
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #944 on: August 07, 2017, 10:01:57 PM »
Well that seems a bit silly. Obviously one factor alone doesn't make anything good.

Just like a strong desire to make great music won't result in anything good.

I think the assumption is that under the right circumstances, along with the proper talent and everything else, competition CAN be a very good thing.


No one is actually arguing that all you need is competition and nothing else to automatically create brilliant music.
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