Author Topic: Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo  (Read 305487 times)

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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #210 on: March 15, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »
Perhaps he has to pay a fee or something, which is likely what DT had to do when they took the albums covers of the full albums they covered and altered them a bit.

Interesting theory.  I thought of that myself.  As it stands, I deleted my initial comment because I got the MP threads mixed up when i meant to post in the other. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #211 on: March 15, 2017, 06:27:24 PM »
Okay. I threw my comments into the other thread, for the sake of continuity.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #212 on: March 15, 2017, 08:51:06 PM »
I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.

I think it's a matter of intent. If he just wants a fun project with some people he wants to make music with again, instrumental is fine. If he wants this to be a financially stable thing with a stronger future, then I absolutely think he needs a vocalist.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind it being an instrumental album. Other than LTE, he hasn't done an instrumental project. It would actually be a nice change from his very few projects with singers.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #213 on: March 16, 2017, 06:03:19 AM »
As many others said here, I hope the bassist is not Billy Sheehan. Heīs not in the studio with them anyways, and heīs done two other projects with MP. But I really canīt see why some of us think "Billyīs style doesnīt fit prog at all". I thought his sound blended perfectly with MPīs drums in PSMS. Is it his clothing style that bothers you? His stage presence? I know heīs associated with Talas, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth etc. and this carries an image, but aside from that, I really canīt see how his playing style "doesnīt fit prog".

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #214 on: March 16, 2017, 06:45:19 AM »
I can only answer for myself, but Billy has the worst bass sound of any bass player I know of.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #215 on: March 16, 2017, 06:57:40 AM »
I can only answer for myself, but Billy has the worst bass sound of any bass player I know of.

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Offline Metro

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #216 on: March 16, 2017, 07:06:13 AM »
As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.

And yeah, his tone is horrible.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #217 on: March 16, 2017, 07:10:12 AM »
Yeah, that must be why Eddie Van Halen, the king of tones, didnīt want him anywhere near Van Halen.

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #218 on: March 16, 2017, 08:19:39 AM »
As many others said here, I hope the bassist is not Billy Sheehan. Heīs not in the studio with them anyways, and heīs done two other projects with MP. But I really canīt see why some of us think "Billyīs style doesnīt fit prog at all". I thought his sound blended perfectly with MPīs drums in PSMS. Is it his clothing style that bothers you? His stage presence? I know heīs associated with Talas, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth etc. and this carries an image, but aside from that, I really canīt see how his playing style "doesnīt fit prog".

I think it's because he's a scientologist  :lol

I love Billy's playing.  The only reason I'd say I'd rather him not be involved is because he already is involved with MP's other projects.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #219 on: March 16, 2017, 08:38:55 AM »
I've never had a problem with Billy's playing or sound.  I never heard him in Talas.  He does go crazy and play more of a "lead bass" in PSMS or, say, Vai solo stuff.  But not in more "straightforward" rock.  While still definitely "flashy," I never really felt like he was taking over in Mr. Big, DLR, or Winery Dogs.  I'm not saying others can't feel that way, or that you can't feel like his style just doesn't suit you.  Just saying, it never really stood at to me as a problem.  And if he were to be in this project, I'm not sure his flashy, sometimes over the top style is out of place in a genre where bands do things like having three bassists and a "lead bass" approach.  Heck, look at JM's approach in the Majesty/WDADU days. 

That said, it doesn't seem like he is involved in this, which is fine.  I know for me, I would prefer him to NOT be involved.  But that isn't necessarily because of his playing.  Hopefully, Mike has put together a lineup and will help guide the writing of the songs such that the players compliment each other and nobody's particular playing style detracts.  For me, my reasoning is simply because he has recently worked on two projects with Billy, and adding Billy to yet another project would just feel to me a bit incestuous and like he cannot break out of the usual cast of characters.  But we'll see.  I'm optimistic, and I hope the music lives up to the hype.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2017, 09:41:58 AM »
I actually like Billy in the projects that he's been in. I love Mr Big, feel he's fine in TWD etc. He's just a very narrow player, he doesn't veer off far from his regular play.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2017, 10:12:11 AM »
As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.

And yeah, his tone is horrible.

I'm a bassist, and agree 100% with what you said, specially the bolded part.

Now, it isn't fair to criticize Billy without giving an example of someone who, imo, does all these things right. So, who is a prog/rock/metal bassist who has crazy good technique, knows when to stand out and when to lay back, who also has AMAZING tone, is very versatile and would fit this band so much better? Bryan Beller :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #222 on: March 16, 2017, 10:21:07 AM »
Colin Edwin has the best bass tone/sound that I've ever heard. I read an interview with Joey Vera a year ago where he says the same thing. I take that as high praise.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2017, 10:22:27 AM »
Colin Edwin has the best bass tone/sound that I've ever heard. I read an interview with Joey Vera a year ago where he says the same thing. I take that as high praise.

Oh yea, his tone is great.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #224 on: March 16, 2017, 10:24:53 AM »
As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.

And yeah, his tone is horrible.

I'm a bassist, and agree 100% with what you said, specially the bolded part.

Now, it isn't fair to criticize Billy without giving an example of someone who, imo, does all these things right. So, who is a prog/rock/metal bassist who has crazy good technique, knows when to stand out and when to lay back, who also has AMAZING tone, is very versatile and would fit this band so much better? Bryan Beller :metal

Bryan is awesome too. Hereīs an example of his chops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8KBvUCV6Co&list=PLJltKoeJOXNPeepHQn0Sj4bkfMh707PqN

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #225 on: March 16, 2017, 12:56:38 PM »
I've never cared for Sheehan's rock style of playing at all, and as others have said he's pretty rigid in that regard; a guitarist playing a bass. I dug the hell out of him in Niacin, though, and that suggests to me he could play quite well in a prog group, but only if he commits to not trying to be EVH for a while. I agree with others that I'd really prefer for him to not be the bass player in this gig, but I'm certainly interested in hearing him do something different for a change. Dude's too talented to keep playing the same boring stuff all the time.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #226 on: March 16, 2017, 12:59:24 PM »
The problem with having Derek Sherinian and Billy Sheehan in a project together is that they both play their instruments as if they are guitars. It was ok with PSMS because it seemed like a part of the project was giving all the players their own spotlight. If this project is going to have original music, I'd rather have a bass player who can lock in better with Portnoy. Otherwise it risks going off the rails. LTE was great partly because Tony Levin could hold it down while everyone else took off. I'm sure his background as a session player helped in that area.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #227 on: March 16, 2017, 02:08:25 PM »
I'd rather have a bass player who can lock in better with Portnoy.

I might be wrong, but as a bassist and drummer myself, I don't think Mike's approach has ever been "I should keep grooving with (insert bass player's name here) so everything sounds tight". I think he's much more concerned on the musical relationship he has with the guitarists or the other lead instrumentists he plays with. That's why most of the time his drum lines don't acknowledge what the bass part is doing, but instead he tends to overplay in an effort to make his drum parts stick out.

I find MP has never had, in my opinion, a bass/drums connection with any bassist he's played with, as good as, let's say, Peart/Lee.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #228 on: March 16, 2017, 03:07:07 PM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #229 on: March 16, 2017, 03:35:37 PM »
In my humble opinion, Billy and MP have something very big in common which is probably why they work so well together. They both excel at the styles they play and their very own unique sound, but they're not versatile musicians in any sense of the word in a way that, for example, Virgil Donati is. Also, they both know what their respective fans expect from them and they know how to deliver them that, which is a skill hardly mastered by lots of musicians.

Billy sounds great in his Billy stuff, but I can't imagine him going out of his comfort zone; and I think that such same thing applies with MP.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #230 on: March 16, 2017, 04:03:07 PM »
I just don't want to see them in 2 bands.  I want diversity in the sound of each band.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #231 on: March 16, 2017, 04:49:52 PM »
I just don't want to see them in 2 bands.  I want diversity in the sound of each band.
MP is not the poster boy for diversity lol
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #232 on: March 16, 2017, 05:46:51 PM »
I just don't want to see them in 2 bands.  I want diversity in the sound of each band.
MP is not the poster boy for diversity lol

Well, Mike is in 3 bands with Neal Morse, so...

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #233 on: March 16, 2017, 07:10:19 PM »
 :lol


Leave Neil out of it!  Well, now you know why I said that, it's the other players.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #234 on: March 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.

That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Mosh

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #235 on: March 16, 2017, 10:26:36 PM »
I've never seen Mangini's style described as simple. one of the major criticisms of him is that his playing isn't simple enough.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #236 on: March 16, 2017, 10:41:26 PM »
Pretty sure if we turn the MP thread into an MM discussion, MP will explode in rage.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #237 on: March 16, 2017, 11:26:29 PM »
50$ says this won't be the only or last time MP tours with DT songs within the next 5 years.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #238 on: March 17, 2017, 01:49:48 AM »
50$ says this won't be the only or last time MP tours with DT songs within the next 5 years.

I don't think anyone would take you up on that bet. I'm happy that he's revisiting them as long as the songs are done well. In fact, I haven't seen DT since they toured for SC, but I'm thinking about checking this out live if the material is good. I had to give away a ticket to see him with NMB a couple of months ago due to work obligations. I don't plan on missing him play live the next time I get the chance.
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #239 on: March 17, 2017, 06:51:38 AM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.

That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.

It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do.   I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy.    And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me.   I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable:   Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96. 

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #240 on: March 17, 2017, 07:24:44 AM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.

That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.



It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do.   I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy.    And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me.   I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable:   Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.

100000% agreed!!!!

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #241 on: March 17, 2017, 08:00:51 AM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.

That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.

It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do.   I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy.    And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me.   I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable:   Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.

What? If anything, it's MP who sounds complicated when you hear him but is actually easy to play while Mangini sounds like he's playing something basic (like in Enigma Machine) but is actually difficult.

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #242 on: March 17, 2017, 10:06:43 AM »
Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.

I have been trying to figure out why I enjoy MP's drumming more than MM's. I think you nailed it for me. This is a more precise description than "MP has better groove than MM". Thanks, man.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #243 on: March 17, 2017, 10:08:40 AM »
I think both are true. True, you don't hear it directly, i.e. especially the snare and bass drum usually just follow the instruments, but when you listen and hear the complicated stuff he plays on say the cymbals, a lot of us think "impressive, but not really adding much".

Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.

I have been trying to figure out why I enjoy MP's drumming more than MM's. I think you nailed it for me. This is a more precise description than "MP has better groove than MM". Thanks, man.

You should check out Gavin Harrison's explanation of his beat in "Sound of Muzak". It's exactly that, he plays a twisted beat, but it oddly sounds straight.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:15:25 AM by rumborak »
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Re: Mike Portnoy Progressive Metal Supergroup
« Reply #244 on: March 17, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »
I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.

That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.

It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do.   I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy.    And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me.   I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable:   Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.

What? If anything, it's MP who sounds complicated when you hear him but is actually easy to play while Mangini sounds like he's playing something basic (like in Enigma Machine) but is actually difficult.

I'm not at all referring to the actual difficulty of playing.  I'm not a drummer, so to me, what both of them play is "actually difficult", and besides, I find in my own playing (guitar), what I find "easy" and what another player finds "easy" are often different.  I'm just referring to the impression I get from listening.