Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[WheyWaffles]

I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.

I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired. I know musicians not looking as metal affects my experience, though. I'm going to enjoy a concert a little bit more if all the guys on stage look badass or otherwise fit my definition of 'cool' (which fluctuates by genre). It's absolutely shallow, but it's the animal in me (and all of us). At the same time, someone into nu metal or djent or whatever is popular now might be thrown off by the looks I think are cool ('these guys look like '90s throwbacks'). Likewise, if someone thinks Dream Theater looks best with bald Jordan and inhabitable beard JP, then they're not going to agree with me that they looked cooler in the '90s, and we're going to have differing ideal concert experiences.

Whatever your personal ideas of how a band should look (or do anything else), it's classic bias based on past experience and it's in all of us. It's not much of a detriment to society when it comes to something trivial like our perception of musicians and their output, but it's a bias which we're better people if we suppress when it comes to people who look a certain way in every day life... It's often a moral decision to suppress ancient survival instincts, but it's not possible to do it perfectly.

I don't think it's that black and white.  I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites.  I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).

What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?

[KevShmev]

I don't think it's that black and white.  I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites.  I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).

What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?

I don't think so.  For me, VH is very much of a spring/summer band, and I've probably listened to them more in the last 18 months than I had the prior 15 years COMBINED (which is saying a lot considering how much music I have and how little time I have to get to a lot of it).  Certain VH songs and albums I like way more than I used to.  EVH is a douche, but when the music starts playing, I can almost always tune that out and just  .

[bill1971]

I'll just add that's the way it works for everyone. If anyone tells you they can separate what they know about musicians entirely from the music they produce and not let it affect their listening experience in some way, you know you're dealing with someone not introspective enough to realize that is simply impossible. They deny their very humanity. The subjective experience makes perfect compartmentalization an unattainable ideal. Even image affects our opinions of bands and, in some way, their music. I mean, Therion was way cooler before they started dressing like losers too lame to gain admittance to a steam punk convention, right?

If Decapitated was your favorite band, would you be as psyched for their next album as you were last week...?

Anyway, this is why I try to learn as little as possible about actors or writers I like. It can be more difficult with musicians when you spend too much time on goddamn forums. I'll never get over finding out one of my favorite musicians and lyricists, Paul Craddick, is a pseudo-intellectual tool of the worst kind.

I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.

A couple of days ago I saw MP's SF live in Mexico and I know that my excitement about watching MP play wasn't what it would usually be (he was my favorite drummer for a long time, before I listen to Mangini and some others), and I know it's because of everything he's been writing online. I was far more excited about Haken (they were the opening act that night). Of course it was awesome to hear those DT songs and the band put a great show (Eric Gillete is awesome!). It was the same situation for me when I saw The Neal Morse Band in june.

I haven't seen MP since he left DT. His personality just rubs me the wrong way. Even towards the end of his run with DT but no way was I going to miss DT.

Listening to him in older DT I am able to separate because I think as he became older and more bitter the bad side of him came out more.

[ariich]

I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.

I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired. I know musicians not looking as metal affects my experience, though. I'm going to enjoy a concert a little bit more if all the guys on stage look badass or otherwise fit my definition of 'cool' (which fluctuates by genre). It's absolutely shallow, but it's the animal in me (and all of us). At the same time, someone into nu metal or djent or whatever is popular now might be thrown off by the looks I think are cool ('these guys look like '90s throwbacks'). Likewise, if someone thinks Dream Theater looks best with bald Jordan and inhabitable beard JP, then they're not going to agree with me that they looked cooler in the '90s, and we're going to have differing ideal concert experiences.

Whatever your personal ideas of how a band should look (or do anything else), it's classic bias based on past experience and it's in all of us. It's not much of a detriment to society when it comes to something trivial like our perception of musicians and their output, but it's a bias which we're better people if we suppress when it comes to people who look a certain way in every day life... It's often a moral decision to suppress ancient survival instincts, but it's not possible to do it perfectly.

I don't think it's that black and white.  I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites.  I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).

What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?

So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?

[Kwyjibo]

I've learned a long long time ago that people who make great music aren't automatically great people, so I try to separate the music from the musicians. I idolize the music, the playing, the skill and musical vision but never the person behind it. And I'm surely interested in the musician as a person, his thoughts, his motivations etc, but I never invest too much "love" (for lack of a better word) in them, because they may turn out as absolute a-holes. Works fine for me.

If I let a musician's behaviour influence my musical linkings I would have to throw away half of my record collection, and keep the rest only because I don't know yet that they are probably as defective as the rest. A lot of my favorite musicians are tools in one way or the other, yet I still like Queensryche, Van Halen, Guns 'n' Roses, Metallica, to name just a few of the obvious ones. And even if I don't like some of MP's past behaviour and Derek's childish tweets, this is completely low level in regards to what the pros of rockstar-jerkism pull of.

So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?

And this.

[WheyWaffles]

So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?

I'm afraid you misunderstood. I said "far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired". I did not say anyone who isn't neurotypical is severely cognitively impaired. I wasn't speculating about someone who is autistic. I'm talking about someone who is severely brain-damaged, born with a congenital disorder, or had complications in utero so that biasing memories aren't retained or the connections with music otherwise can't be made. That includes no one in this thread--those who think they can perfectly compartmentalize feelings about musicians and their music are mistaken. There's always a biasing effect. Good luck finding a cognitive scientist who would dispute that.

"Severely cognitively impaired" has meaning. It's not coded language for "autistic". Someone born with cerebellar hypoplasia more than likely is and always will be severely cognitively impaired. It's not controversial, it's not a slur, and I could hardly put it in more neutral terms.

If I let a musician's behaviour influence my musical linkings I would have to throw away half of my record collection, and keep the rest only because I don't know yet that they are probably as defective as the rest.

Throw away half your records? I see the fact that this effect is often subtle is lost on you.

And this.

I know you're probably just tagging along, but please see the above just in case you failed to comprehend as well.

[the keyboard wizard]

Coming Home is available on streaming platforms :
https://open.spotify.com/track/3ZBRUnu3hugYS22naQyJ7K

https://www.deezer.com/track/403519162?utm_source=deezer&utm_content=track-403519162&utm_term=326664885_1505458308&utm_medium=web

[Kwyjibo]

I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.

This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"

Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.

[Anguyen92]

If people can find the ability to separate the music from the person and enjoy the music even though they know the person isn't really the greatest guy to be around, great.  More power to you.  I'm just not that kind of guy that can do that.

[Polarbear]

I listen to a song to enjoy the music, and i'm rarely interested about the background of the artist who made it.
I could not care less about what kind of personality quirks the artist has, i'm just there to enjoy the music!

I hope that makes sense!

Now, back to the topic! I really enjoyed the new track! Major Symphony X vibes. More specifically the later era Symphony X..

[ariich]

I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.

This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"

Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.

Correct.

[Art]

Loved the new song! 

[w_marano]

Coming Home = AMOB + 80's glam metal with a lot... LOT... of screaming. 

[ErHaO]

Love the new track!

[devieira73]

Really cool tune! On this song, Soto vocals really worked!

[RodrigoAltaf]

Coming Home video, just posted by MP on Facebook:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1N8kVYfkE

[ReaperKK]

This is looking to be probably the best post-dt MP project, but i really, really don't like JSS.

[AngelBack]

This is looking to be probably the best post-dt MP project, but i really, really don't like JSS.

I agree, but something about JSS voice reminds me of Grand Funk Railroad and that is just kind of out of place for a more modern "metal" sounding band. 

[Lynxo]

Another awesome song!  Can't wait for the album to come out!

[RodrigoAltaf]

Does anyone else get a Thunderstruck vibe from Derek´s keyboards at the beginning?

[jakepriest]

The first song atleast had a redeeming instrumental section. This is as generic and boring as it gets.

[w_marano]

The first song atleast had a redeeming instrumental section. This is as generic and boring as it gets.

Agree.

[Bolsters]

I like this one less than the first, and I didn't really like the first that much.

I'll still give the full album a go but I have very, very low expectations.

[The Walrus]

What a disappointment...

That's some generic ass cock rock right there, right down to the lyrics and title. How many more songs about 'coming home' do we really need? This shit is Chickenfoot 2.0 and no, that is not a good thing at all. Overhyped supergroup with the same radio friendly crap every other band is doing - where is the prog and the metal? That's probably the least interesting synth part Derek's ever played and some generic singing from Soto. I fear the 10 minute songs aren't going to be that 'prog' after all.

EDIT: *waves to Derek on Twitter* hi sweetie

[gmillerdrake]

I like this one less than the first, and I didn't really like the first that much.

I'll still give the full album a go but I have very, very low expectations.

I'm not so sure about that anymore. If it's on my Apple Music I'll check it out but I'm not going out of my way to buy it.

This is as generic and boring as it gets.

No kidding, I'm actually shocked this was even recorded. I'm curious as to if they really think this is a good song? I'm serious. Zero originality all around....structure, sound, drumming, guitar, bass....on and on. I'm confused about this song actually. I'm starting to think it's a trick song and we will hear the real ones when the album is released.

[IDontNotDoThings]

...I liked it

[gmillerdrake]

...I liked it

And there's nothing wrong with that. We all know Music is subjective and strikes differently for each of us.

My issue is that the tweets from Derek claiming they were the new 'Kings of Prog' and pitting SOA against DT like they were going to take them out or something. Nothing I've heard from SOA leads me to believe they are the Kings of anything, much less in the same realm at DT when it comes to Prog. I'd be embarrassed if I were Derek after talking smack and then giving us this cut and paste single.

[The Walrus]

...I liked it

And there's nothing wrong with that. We all know Music is subjective and strikes differently for each of us.

My issue is that the tweets from Derek claiming they were the new 'Kings of Prog' and pitting SOA against DT like they were going to take them out or something. Nothing I've heard from SOA leads me to believe they are the Kings of anything, much less in the same realm at DT when it comes to Prog. I'd be embarrassed if I were Derek after talking smack and then giving us this cut and paste single.

And BINGO was his name-o...

[Peter Mc]

Forgetting for a minute all the silly tweeting nonsense from MP/DS, that doesn't really increase or decrease my anticipation for the album.  What does affect it though has been the string of (in my opinion) mediocre or downright bad releases Mike has been involved in since leaving DT.  I'm not counting NMB and TA in this as these were pre-existing projects he was involved in whilst still in DT and they are still releasing quality material (how much Mike has to do with that in terms of song writing is debatable though). 

The other stuff though like Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors, The Winery Dogs and Metal Allegiance have been pretty unsuccessful and have shown that maybe he wasn't such a big deal in Dream Theater after all as he has absolutely not been able to replicate that success anywhere else, not even close.  He clearly needs to be working with great songwriters in order to have success as he is not a great songwriter himself and these "super" groups he's involved in are generally with people who are not superstars with the possible exception of Billy Sheehan but he's just a bass player.  I did have some hope for Flying Colors as both Steve Morse and Neal Morse were involved but it was not as good as the sum of it's parts and I couldn't get past the forced vocal style of the singer who for some reason takes precedence over Neal in the singing department.  I have tried to support Mike in the initial aftermath of his departure and I did buy the debut albums by Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors and The Winery Dogs but noticeably didn't bother with album number 2 on any of those projects and don't get the impression I missed out despite Mike's hyperbole about how great they were.

There was a time when I would buy a MP release without question during the era of DT, LTE, TA and even OSI but those days have gone and I will have to hear more from SOA before making a purchase.  From the little I've heard (and it is very little) it sounds like a very poor mans Falling Into Infinity (again this is my opinion).  I have always been a fan of JSS but not sure he still has the pipes anymore, will have to wait and see.  I loved him with Yngwie Malmsteen and (talking of great guitar players he's played with and stable gigs) he had a great run with Axel Rudi Pell before his voice started to go and Axel brought in Johnny Gioelli who was even better.

I will definitely give SOA a go and hope Mike can pull off another great prog metal band as we need one after losing the likes of Opeth and Pain of Salvation.  I can't say he fills me with much confidence these days though.

[Kwyjibo]

That was not bad although pretty generic and I'm still not really sold on JSS vocals. Not bad singing but not the right fit imo.

But, WHERE IS THE PROG?

[SwedishGoose]

Really disappointed in "The new kings of Prog"..... where is the prog, where are the good songs?

[cramx3]

But, WHERE IS THE PROG?

This is what I am wondering considering the talk.

I feel like at this point my interest in this band is solely relying on the potential of the members and no longer about what I've heard so far. 

I enjoy this type of music too, and it's not bad.  But it's not that exciting either.  I'd rock out to a concert of this music, but this music, which doesn't feel fresh, is not getting me excited for the album.

[the keyboard wizard]

Really disappointed in "The new kings of Prog"..... where is the prog, where are the good songs?

They are coming. Mike and Derek described the songs to us and they told us that Signs of Time was chosen because it was diverse and a good way to show all the aspects of the band and Coming Home was more of a straight rock single. But don't worry, you'll get prog. But I think that the album will be more like a classic hard rock album with elements of prog.
Some videos to show you how fun the interview was :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SYsGqPQgY&feature=youtu.be&a=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaG6BbAP5BY&feature=youtu.be&a=

[Mindflux]

Not feeling JSS.

[SjundeInseglet]

I did have some hope for Flying Colors as both Steve Morse and Neal Morse were involved but it was not as good as the sum of it's parts and I couldn't get past the forced vocal style of the singer who for some reason takes precedence over Neal in the singing department.  I have tried to support Mike in the initial aftermath of his departure and I did buy the debut albums by Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors and The Winery Dogs but noticeably didn't bother with album number 2 on any of those projects and don't get the impression I missed out despite Mike's hyperbole about how great they were.

Well, I disagree. To me, the first Flying Colors record was definitely greater than the sum of its parts. That album was chock full of songs that successfully mixed the prog leanings of the majority of the band members with a focused and disciplined approach to songwriting. That yielded songs that were catchy enough to please a non prog fan but that still retained enough progressive elements to be enjoyed by the prog crowd. Granted, I also quite like Casey McPherson as a singer and never thought he had a forced vocal style. The second one was a bit different and many thought that it could do with some editing/an outside producer. Still, the follow-up still had a lot of interesting stuff to offer, particularly (in my opinion, obviously) the best song FC ever recorded, "Peaceful Harbor". It's all a matter of taste, I suppose...