Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[Adami]

I think MP and DS should just call the album Sweet Beats and Indiscreet Tweets.

[XeRocks81]

thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know)

Now THAT, is definitely in the eye of the beholder   

[Stadler]

Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge.  What an open mind you have.   (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently.    

Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online.  How else am I supposed to judge you?  What other information about you do I have?

Well, if you're talking about "real life" meetings, you judge based on that.    For what it's worth, I'm the same person, I put on no airs, but in person?   I rarely if ever talk politics, and rarely if ever "lead" the conversation.  I'm a curious person, and am interested in the people I meet.   If you think a conversation with me in real life is a bunch of economics statistics and a lecture about how to post and how not to post, you'd be mistaken.  Not because I'm two-faced, or a p****, but because the mediums are different. 

I know people hate this word (because it's sticky and complicated and grey) but because the CONTEXT is different.

What about Trump?  I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.

Open mind?  How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know?  If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides".  But we don't have that information, do we?  All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.

Here's where you're wrong:  we have THREE (at least) people that know Mike, have dealt with him, and talked with him personally about these issues, and have said, repeatedly, that they KNOW there is more to the story, and that we don't know everything, and what is not known is material and would likely change at least some people's views.  Yet... some of you continue to plead ignorance about those things and stick to your world view.

So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?

Well, one, "nice" and "cool" are subjective; what I think about myself is immaterial, because I can't judge objectively.  Some people think Beiber and Kardashian are "cool".  And two, because I present who I am. None of us are one-dimensional robots.    Part of me is analytical and serious, and part of me is fun and carefree.   I've learned long ago that you can't please everyone.   So I choose to be around people that are interesting, open-minded, don't pre-judge, and are curious and willing to experience new things.   I'm not at all "hurt", per se, because it does say far more about you than it does me.   I'm not at all scared or intimidated by people that are smarter than me or that think differently than me.  I learn from them.  They have the same facts and yet draw different conclusions, and that FASCINATES me, because I'm not delusional that I'm right about everything.   I NEED to incorporate other people's world views into mine, otherwise I'm living under a rock, and may even be delusional.   Even the people I think are dicks here (and I'm being honest:  there's really only one, as far as I am concerned) I want to meet out of sheer curiosity.   

Which is what I'm doing here with Derek and Mike, et al.  I DON'T know everything, I KNOW there's more info out there, so I withhold judgment and see where it goes.   Whether Derek is "childish" or not is in the eye of the beholder, and is therefore meaningless.  The best we can do is say "I don't like it when he does that". 

[ariich]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.

[Stadler]

Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge.  What an open mind you have.   (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently.    

Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online.  How else am I supposed to judge you?  What other information about you do I have?

What about Trump?  I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.

Open mind?  How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know?  If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides".  But we don't have that information, do we?  All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.

So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?

I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what Stadler was saying. Open mind doesn't mean we need to know everything. It means taking what we see and hear with a pinch of salt because it's only part of the picture. If there is not enough information to make a meaningful judgement, then we shouldn't judge.

Interestingly enough, I disagree with Stadler when it comes to Trump, because I think we have a lot of information from a lot of different sources and it's enough to make at least a reasonable level of judgement (albeit not 100% iron-clad). But in a general sense, he's right, and I do find it frustrating the way people (in all sorts of situations, not just here) form very strong opinions on things they don't know too much about. I think it's a cultural thing in the west - many people feel they need to have an opinion on everything.

AND that "opinions matter".  I blame social media for this, but in America today, "opinions" are treated with almost the same weight as "facts" (and for the record that drives me INSANE).  That's really the essence of the "fake news" thing; people tweet opinions and accept them as factually solid, and it's a huge mistake.  It undermines credibility, and chills meaningful discussion.   This is Trump's greatest fault, in my view.   

[The Walrus]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.

Then specify -- I don't mean that as an insult or to talk down to a mod, I'm just saying, specifics matter. Your post read as if you were talking about everyone who disliked what Derek tweeted, therefore I took offense to it. At no point could I have surmised what you just clarified from that first statement.

[bill1971]

Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!" 

I said "Too bad  I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"

I made that comment because  Nippett said

"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."



Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.

Reason: Continues to talk shit

If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.

Honest question:  was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"

I'll let bill answer, but I posted something before his that got deleted (I wrote 'Echo, echo, echo...') and perhaps that was in response to me, so it could be the first thing.

I don't think so because I noticed a few posts were deleted and at least at that time, that particular post wasn't deleted. Actually I was kind of sticking up for Nippett with that post. In other words, he is just doing what he is told. Unlike Bosk who doesn't have to answer to anybody.

[Stadler]

I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm.  I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.

I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.

Well, I think we're fighting a losing cause in trying to put things in context, since for some it doesn't matter, but think about it:  LaBrie joined in, what, 1991?  Who was big then:

Damn Yankees (1989)
LA Guns had a huge hit with "Never Enough" in 1989
Slaughter had a huge hit with "Fly To The Angels" in 1990
Skid Row had huge hits with "18 and Life" and "I Remember You" in 1989

Paul Stanley - in the Kiss box set, I think it was - talked about the late 80's as being a time when the music called for a more soaring, higher register vocal that taxed his limits as a singer.   

LaBrie as singer was not at all a stretch, and not at all an unusual move for that time, and I think given that the music was a cross of different genres, was a brilliant move tying it all into something "recognizable".   

[ariich]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.

Then specify -- I don't mean that as an insult or to talk down to a mod, I'm just saying, specifics matter. Your post read as if you were talking about everyone who disliked what Derek tweeted, therefore I took offense to it. At no point could I have surmised what you just clarified from that first statement.

That's fair, I feel it was implied but appreciate I didn't specify which posts I was referring to.

[XeRocks81]

 That's really the essence of the "fake news" thing; people tweet opinions and accept them as factually solid, and it's a huge mistake. 

But that's not what it was originally about.  This discussion is probably way off topic so I apologize, maybe we can move it elsewhere?  But anyway the problem was (and is) that there IS actual fake news,  but that very important point gets lost in the shuffle. 

[Anguyen92]

Can this band release another new song now?

[mikeyd23]

Can this band release another new song now?

For real.

[The Silent Cody]

Can this band release another new song now?

For real.

Like , hm, now. 

[bosk1]

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

 

I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!

For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.

You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.

There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.

^This.  What arriich said should have been fairly apparent--it was the sniping and sarcasm aimed primarily at Stadler that arrich was addressing, and that is fair game.  Like it or not, as a moderator, that DOES give him the right to come in here and tell you to "knock it off." One of the reasons this place functions well as a whole is because the mods have the authority to use their discretion to keep things running orderly.  And even if I disagree with an individual moderator's decision, we made a decision when we first opened this place that I had the mods' backs and they had mine.  So kindly follow arriich's and the others mods' instructions.  If you disagree with a decision, you can contact the mod and/or me via PM to address it offline.  But don't get confrontational with the mods.  That is going to be a losing battle for you 100% of the time.

Honestly, I don't care about what happens at the MP website.  Not sure why it really matters here either.  After saying I haven't been over there before, I browsed last night as it was a late night at work and found some similar discussion to here, but much much less.  Let them run the place as they see fit, it is their website, people will move on if they feel it's not an interesting community.

Exactly.  Let's keep the criticism of how other websites are run away from this forum.  I don't think it is good for either community to criticize how things are run on either site.  If you like, or at least can tolerate how things are run there, and you want to be a member, that's cool.  And that goes for any other website as well.  This isn't a place to start forum wars or to criticize how the staff there choose to do things.

Again, let's keep this thread focused on discussing Sons of Appollo, please.  I realize it's natural to go off topic a bit, especially when it is quiet and there is no news.  But we are going too far afield into areas that are only going to cause trouble.

[efx]

New song/video coming out on the 15th of this month according to a (ahem) tweet by Derek. I'll ignore the #'s on it

[The Walrus]

Duly noted, bosk, ariich, my apologies if I caused any offense. Cheers

[bill1971]

New song/video coming out on the 15th of this month according to a (ahem) tweet by Derek. I'll ignore the #'s on it

Yes, I saw the #'s I am over it. MP made sure that he can't be criticized over at his forum and here where it is allowed I don't care anymore. I will listen to the song but doubt I will get the album at this point. The first song is good but not worth my money. If the new song changes my mind, then so be it.

[ariich]

Duly noted, bosk, ariich, my apologies if I caused any offense. Cheers

It's cool, it was a misunderstanding. These things happen. There are very few things I pride myself on, but fairness is one of them, so if I say something that comes across as unfair (either because of a misunderstanding, poor wording, or occasionally if I have inadvertently been genuinely unfair), I'm always happy to be asked about it, though as bosk says preferably in a less confrontational manner.


Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!

[efx]

Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!

As a guitarist I was turned on to his album, the adventures of bumblefoot which he recorded all by himself in the early 90's using some pretty dyi techniques. Absolutely insane playing on it, the tab book looks like spagetti at times. But well worth checking out for some quirky stuff ala Steve Vai's flexable.

I'd have to say even though I'm a huge fan of Dereks (playing) Bumblefoot was the main reason this band piqued my interest. He's a monster and I hope he gets to really show off on this record.

[ariich]

Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!

As a guitarist I was turned on to his album, the adventures of bumblefoot which he recorded all by himself in the early 90's using some pretty dyi techniques. Absolutely insane playing on it, the tab book looks like spagetti at times. But well worth checking out for some quirky stuff ala Steve Vai's flexable.

I'd have to say even though I'm a huge fan of Dereks (playing) Bumblefoot was the main reason this band piqued my interest. He's a monster and I hope he gets to really show off on this record.

Yeah I don't really know what to expect from him on this album. I really liked Chinese Democracy, but it didn't have anything particularly special or "out-there" in the guitar department. And Bumblefoot's latest solo album was a lot more middle-of-the-road, particularly in terms of his playing (it's a fun album but definitely not as exciting as the two before).

I'll for sure check out his earlier stuff too.

[bosk1]

His solo stuff shows that he has incredible chops and technical ability.  But his stuff with GnR shows that he can play within the context of a more traditional band and can play to the song and not just go crazy doing his own thing.  That really makes it seem to me like he really brings everything to the table that a project like this needs.  I am pretty optimistic.

I think the only real "obstacle" is just that he was not used to writing the way Mike and Derek (and, to a lesser degree, Billy) write, where they just jam out ideas and run with them on the spot, as revealed in the recent interview footage.  But it seems like he was able to adapt to that as well.  So, again, I am pretty optimistic.

[ariich]

His solo stuff shows that he has incredible chops and technical ability.  But his stuff with GnR shows that he can play within the context of a more traditional band and can play to the song and not just go crazy doing his own thing.  That really makes it seem to me like he really brings everything to the table that a project like this needs.  I am pretty optimistic.

I think the only real "obstacle" is just that he was not used to writing the way Mike and Derek (and, to a lesser degree, Billy) write, where they just jam out ideas and run with them on the spot, as revealed in the recent interview footage.  But it seems like he was able to adapt to that as well.  So, again, I am pretty optimistic.

Yeah, that's pretty much my feeling too.

With only one song released, from a new band with no track record (as a group, rather than individually) it's difficult to get a feel for what the album might be like in terms of balance of styles, variety, etc.

[bosk1]

With only one song released, from a new band with no track record (as a group, rather than individually) it's difficult to get a feel for what the album might be like in terms of balance of styles, variety, etc.

In other words, you need to hear more before making a decision?  So...you're sexin' Bumblefoot...later?

[ariich]

I'm sexin' everyone later.

Always.

[Madman Shepherd]

I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.

Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.

Really?

The reason (for them) behind the banning was:

Continues to talk shit

How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?

I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.

This is true!  You just never know.  Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now.  They could actually be related.  He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA.   You can't really know for sure with only having facts.

Ya know, the thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know) is mildly funny and all, but it CLEARLY shows you don't have a clue (or don't care, fair enough) what anyone who doesn't agree with you has to say.  You're taking it to an absurd extreme that was never intended, at least not by me (about the only one here that has maintained that we have to have an open mind).

It was absurd long before my post and furthermore it doesn't seem like you have an open mind.  Could it be that we have actually just examined the evidence and thought, "Yup.  It seems to be pointed in this direction." 

While sarcasm may not be to your taste, the "You just don't know" argument also seems to be one of the lowest forms of debate.  Of course nobody knows.  You also don't know that Derek and Mike don't hate John and Jordan's guts and are hoping their feelings are hurt.  I don't think that but hey, I guess I don't know for sure. 

What's actually kind of alarming though is that you apparently don't know you posted something blatantly false about James.  He never said "We're happier now that Mike's gone" or whatever misquote you wrote.  That's not one you can chalk up to, "Ya just don't know."  We know for a fact that he never said that.  At least publicly.  Private conversation with family?  Ok, I guess we don't know.  But we have no evidence that ever happened. 

So if your main argument has been repeated over and over that you can just never know, why do you all of the sudden think you know that I don't care about other peoples opinions.  That's what was the most bizarre about your argument.  In this instance, you clearly don't know...especially on a day where I gave a shoutout to a coworker for always being willing to debate despite our opposite opinions and always maintaining a great working relationship and friendship despite our political differences.  Are you just being indignant?  Sensitive?  Honest question.  I thought we were told not to be sensitive and yet now I'm being called names because it seems I touched a nerve.  This whole time I was having fun.  Again, the people that tell me not be sensitive (even though I wasn't) and we should just have fun with it (which I feel I was) have a big problem with this?

[KevShmev]

But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!! 

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!

Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago. 😉

[SwedishGoose]

But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!

Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago. 😉

Yes that is probably why Mike hates one canadian....

[Anguyen92]

But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!

Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago.

Yes that is probably why Mike hates one canadian....

And again, I will refute that it could very well not be JLB.  There are a fair amount of Canadians that people may find despicable that Portnoy could hate.  Beibs, Celine Dion, Chad Kroger from Nickelback, and yes, maybe even Neil Peart after Portnoy met him at some point, etc.

[SwedishGoose]

Well yes of course there is a million to one chance that he meant someone else than JLB....

[Peace and Love]

#godsofprogmetal #gamechangers #noCheeseWiz

Actually, I think this latest set of "jokes' by Sherinian is the most insulting, and the most directly aimed at DT. I would be very surprised at CheezeWiz isn't pointing to JR - given that Sherinian has been mocking cheesy keyboard sounds, apps, ipads, and finally, making this incredibly poor joke mocking JR's company's apps like Morphwiz, Samplewiz, etc.

For me personally this was the last straw actually. Fuck it, I'm not going buy their album and support this kind of asshole behaviour, or even bother to listen to their songs. Just a personal choice, I don't expect people here to agree with me.

[SwedishGoose]

Well you know there is a million to one chance that Sherinian ment something else....

Definitely bad taste jokes / insults

I will however give the music a fair chance... if the next song released blows my socks of I might even preorder. But given the first song my hopes are not high...

[Mladen]

The music will be what matters in the end. Derek's tweets got old, boring and not even funny anymore - this isn't how I see a fair, intelligent or creative way to promote a band. It's more than cheap.

[Peace and Love]

.

[Lowdz]

#godsofprogmetal #gamechangers #noCheeseWiz

Actually, I think this latest set of "jokes' by Sherinian is the most insulting, and the most directly aimed at DT. I would be very surprised at CheezeWiz isn't pointing to JR - given that Sherinian has been mocking cheesy keyboard sounds, apps, ipads, and finally, making this incredibly poor joke mocking JR's company's apps like Morphwiz, Samplewiz, etc.

For me personally this was the last straw actually. Fuck it, I'm not going buy their album and support this kind of asshole behaviour, or even bother to listen to their songs. Just a personal choice, I don't expect people here to agree with me.

Kinda goes against your user name 😀😀😀

I kinda know what you mean. There's no need for it and the more it goes on the more tiring it gets.
When Guns n Roses came out I loved Appetite. But as they went on, Axl's behaviour just started to piss me off and after a while I just couldn't be bothered anymore and didn't bother buying the follow up albums.