Knowing when to jump ship

[Zantera]

For me it just kinda happens if there has been enough duds to warrant me losing interest. The amount may be different. For example with Opeth, while I enjoyed PC, I would call the last 3 albums duds and I don't have faith in them making a truly great album again. With a band like Dredg, it only took Chuckles & Mr Squeezy to kill off my interest almost entirely. I've actually had a hard time going back to their good albums because Chuckles left a bad taste in my mouth.

But I'm also a fairly positive person in the sense that I hope bands can turn it around. I didn't love anything PoS put out since BE but I had faith in their most recent album and it delivered. I also haven't loved a Steven Wilson album since GFD (was kinda meh towards the last two) but I'm still interested to see what he does.

[Ben_Jamin]

Most bands I used to listen to when I was younger. Disturbed, Korn, Godsmack. Most of those types of bands.

Mudvayne was like that for me when they released The New Game. Their self-titled helped redeem them but then they never toured for it or anything and that just sucked, one of my favorite bands from the "nu-metal" scene because their only setback was the guitarist, the bass and drums were top notch musicianship.

[rumborak]

I put anything Neal Morse related in that list.  Mind you, I was absolutely gaga about Spock's Beard. After he left, I checked out his first three solo albums, and then called it quits. He is a very consistent songwriter, which however means that if you no longer connect with him, you're out for good.
Even worse, he is also very dominant, and so he tends to eventually usurp side projects he is in. Happened with FC, with Transatlantic, and of course NMB.

Other than that, yeah, of course DT to some degree. I mean, even though I was entirely on board with MM, with the 20/20 hindsight we have now, his approach to drumming cemented them into the "bigger, faster" mindset, whereas maybe a different drummer would have allowed them  to start pivoting towards a more maintainable style. The way it is now, their shows become ever more constructed and rigid in order to cover up the clear signs of age. They play slower, tuned down, with backup voices ... It feels a bit like a race car that is being held together by an increasing amount of duct tape.

[Sycsa]

I was absolutely gaga about Spock's Beard.

What are some of your favorite songs? I'm trying to get into them, but I haven't really found any good hooks yet.

[Herrick]

Okay, but if you check their new album out for free, then that goes against the idea behind this thread. 

To reiterate, when I say jumping ship, I don't mean losing interest, but still checking stuff out; I mean losing interest to where you stop listening to almost anything new (barring hearing something on the radio, TV, etc.).

In that regard, streaming services makes it much harder to jump ship on a band completely, since it's pretty easy now to check out their new stuff for free somewhere, while back in the day, it was buy the CD to hear it or you probably hear it anywhere.

The only time I will jump ship is if I completely lose interest in the band's sound/style of music. That may not even be a result of bad albums or whatever. Iced Earth could put out an album that every fan says is as good as Night of the Stormrider but I wouldn't even bother checking it out.

[jakepriest]

Definitely Disturbed.

I love their first two albums, but everything after that just sounds the same. I can't tell one song from another most of the time.

[KevShmev]

I put anything Neal Morse related in that list.  Mind you, I was absolutely gaga about Spock's Beard. After he left, I checked out his first three solo albums, and then called it quits. He is a very consistent songwriter, which however means that if you no longer connect with him, you're out for good.
Even worse, he is also very dominant, and so he tends to eventually usurp side projects he is in. Happened with FC, with Transatlantic, and of course NMB.

  

The first Transatlantic album was the most Neal-dominated CD of the four, easily.  I cannot recall the percentages of who did what on the fourth album, but the second and third were very much full band efforts.

[Mosh]

I dunno, I listen to Marillion, The Flower Kings, and of course many Portnoy projects and Transatlantic is definitely Morse dominated.

Most bands I used to listen to when I was younger. Disturbed, Korn, Godsmack. Most of those types of bands.

I bet a lot of people who were young during that time can relate to this. Linkin Park is one of those for me. Followed their first two albums, was meh on the third one and pretty much grew out of that type of music. I haven't listened to anything they've done since. 

[ariich]

I don't find this too difficult now that we have streaming services, which make it very easy to check out a new album with zero commitment or cost (beyond the streaming subscription I'm paying anyway). So there are definitely bands that I've lost interest in. But if I'm still a fan, even if their recent output doesn't interest me anymore then I'll normally still check out a new album at least once.

Okay, but if you check their new album out for free, then that goes against the idea behind this thread. 

To reiterate, when I say jumping ship, I don't mean losing interest, but still checking stuff out; I mean losing interest to where you stop listening to almost anything new (barring hearing something on the radio, TV, etc.).

In that regard, streaming services makes it much harder to jump ship on a band completely, since it's pretty easy now to check out their new stuff for free somewhere, while back in the day, it was buy the CD to hear it or you probably hear it anywhere.

Indeed, which I suppose was the point I was making. As others have suggested, there's no real need to go completely cold turkey unless you've gone off a band's style overall, even though you may still dig older albums for whatever reason (or of course if a band has drastically changed style).

Obviously it's different if you've (the general you, not you personally) totally lost interest in a band. But I struggle a bit with the idea of still being a big fan, say of the older albums, but not at some point checking out new albums (or parts of albums) once just to see what they're like, given the availability of streaming, Youtube, etc. Unless, as I say, they've completely changed their style and you know it won't interest you anymore.

I put anything Neal Morse related in that list.  Mind you, I was absolutely gaga about Spock's Beard. After he left, I checked out his first three solo albums, and then called it quits. He is a very consistent songwriter, which however means that if you no longer connect with him, you're out for good.
Even worse, he is also very dominant, and so he tends to eventually usurp side projects he is in. Happened with FC, with Transatlantic, and of course NMB.

  

The first Transatlantic album was the most Neal-dominated CD of the four, easily.  I cannot recall the percentages of who did what on the fourth album, but the second and third were very much full band efforts.

Agreed, and I remember having this discussion when The Whirlwind came out and Rumby had this assumption that anything that sounded even vaguely Neal-y must have come from him. Whereas the other members all come from bands that have some similar stylings (ok MP not so much) and so some sections sound like Neal just because he's the one singing.

[KevShmev]

I dunno, I listen to Marillion, The Flower Kings, and of course many Portnoy projects and Transatlantic is definitely Morse dominated.

Okay. but Rumbo's point was that it got more Morse-dominated as time went on, when it reality it was the opposite.  Even if TA was Morse-dominated on 2nd, 33rd and 4th albums (which the 3rd certainly was not), the 1st is still THE most Morse-dominated record.

[rumborak]

Nah, sorry. As someone who was both a big fan of SB, and TFK, I know exactly when I hear something by Neal or Roine. And especially Neal has a very specific bag of tricks that he draws from. In fact, I would hope you guys give me a bit more credit than just assuming that whenever Neal sings something, I think it must have been written by him.

[Mosh]

The thing with Transatlantic for me is that even though Roine contributes a lot (I can also mostly tell what parts were written by whom) it's still going through the Neal Morse filter. Watch any Transatlantic documentary and it's obvious that Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy are the masterminds of putting the whole thing together. The way those epics are put together is very much in the typical Morse style.

[KevShmev]

In that regard, streaming services makes it much harder to jump ship on a band completely, since it's pretty easy now to check out their new stuff for free somewhere, while back in the day, it was buy the CD to hear it or you probably hear it anywhere.

Indeed, which I suppose was the point I was making. As others have suggested, there's no real need to go completely cold turkey unless you've gone off a band's style overall, even though you may still dig older albums for whatever reason (or of course if a band has drastically changed style).

Obviously it's different if you've (the general you, not you personally) totally lost interest in a band. But I struggle a bit with the idea of still being a big fan, say of the older albums, but not at some point checking out new albums (or parts of albums) once just to see what they're like, given the availability of streaming, Youtube, etc. Unless, as I say, they've completely changed their style and you know it won't interest you anymore.
[/quote]

Right.  That is why I said it is much more difficult to jump ship nowadays and never listen to anything new.  Too much easy access out there to hear the stuff for free to not let curiosity get the best of you at some point. 

I remember having this discussion when The Whirlwind came out and Rumby had this assumption that anything that sounded even vaguely Neal-y must have come from him. Whereas the other members all come from bands that have some similar stylings (ok MP not so much) and so some sections sound like Neal just because he's the one singing.

Yep, I remember that, as well.  I think the lyrics being fairly spiritual gave the impression that the Whirlwind was another Neal + friends effort, but nope.  The others are all over that record.

[rumborak]

Meh. If that's what you guys want to believe, that I can't distinguish a chord progression from a piece of lyrics, whatevs.

[KevShmev]

The thing with Transatlantic for me is that even though Roine contributes a lot (I can also mostly tell what parts were written by whom) it's still going through the Neal Morse filter. Watch any Transatlantic documentary and it's obvious that Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy are the masterminds of putting the whole thing together. The way those epics are put together is very much in the typical Morse style.

I would submit that just because the structure is similar doesn't mean the pieces are the same.  To use another example, it's like being in a restaurant and having a few chefs and then the alley coordinator (the person who arranges the food on the plate in a specific way).  Just because Transatlantic always arranges the food in the way Neal likes it doesn't mean he cooked it all, if you catch my drift.

Also, I don't always put a ton of stock into the making of's release by Neal and/or Portnoy, since they tend to dominate screen time in them (see: camera hogs ).  Heck, watch the making of for the new NMB album and you'd think it was just another Neal solo record, since he dominates the screen time, but that was not the case.  Heck, you could watch that making of and come away having no clue that Bill was the one who wrote The Ways of a Fool (which Portnoy later revealed in that YT live thing he did). 

[KevShmev]

Meh. If that's what you guys want to believe, that I can't distinguish a chord progression from a piece of lyrics, whatevs.

No one said that, but you are arguing against what the band themselves have said. 

You said Transatlantic was another band that Neal usurped and dominated more as time went on.

The band themselves have said that SMPTe was very Neal-dominated, but that every record since has been more of a full band effort.

We can quibble about this song or that song, but your assertion is a complete contradiction with facts laid out by the band.

Do you think the band was pulling our leg with they talked about how much they all contributed to the Whirlwind?

[rumborak]

Come oooonnnnn, Kev. They said the same thing about NMB. Are you telling me that band isn't dominated by Neal?
That stuff is just marketing spin, to make it look like one happy family effort. The proof is in the pudding, that is in the music.

[KevShmev]

Come oooonnnnn, Kev. They said the same thing about NMB. Are you telling me that band isn't dominated by Neal?
That stuff is just marketing spin. The proof is in the pudding, that is in the music.

I never said that the band isn't dominated by Neal.

You are moving the goal posts.

I responded to your point, which was that Neal took more control and dominated it more over time.

Their first album was the MOST Neal-dominated record, so even if the following albums were still dominated by Neal, they were still dominated LESS than before.

K?

[rumborak]

And my assertion is that these statements by bands who say that an album was"written by the whole band" are not worth the paper they were written on. If TA said whatever album was less Neal-dominated, that doesn't mean it actually was, it simply means they were aware of a negative perception and tried to counteract said perception. DT had done exactly the same with DT12, and years later MM admits through gritted teeth that his input was virtually nil.

[KevShmev]

To each his own. Your ears are going to tell you what you want to hear, so have at it. 

[rumborak]

I definitely trust my ears over a marketing statement, yes 

[KevShmev]

Haha, I can't say I blame ya, even if I do not agree wholeheartedly with your conclusion.

[King Postwhore]

I've seen his ears but they've never madequate any statements while I was around.

[Skeever]

The thing with Transatlantic for me is that even though Roine contributes a lot (I can also mostly tell what parts were written by whom) it's still going through the Neal Morse filter. Watch any Transatlantic documentary and it's obvious that Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy are the masterminds of putting the whole thing together. The way those epics are put together is very much in the typical Morse style.

Nail on the head. Neal Morse is an artist I had no problem jumping ship on several years ago. I did catch some material from the cruise, and honestly, it looked comical.

[Kotowboy]

I don't think i've ever quit a band...


Even if their most recent album is total shit. I'll always listen to their albums.

I'm also not one of those people who - if their "favourite" band puts out a crap album - suddenly finds massive flaws with all previous albums and never really liked them anyway...

[MirrorMask]

I never really "stopped" to listen to a band by conscious decision, telling to myself "Ok, this album sucks, I have to remind myself that I don't want to listen to their future efforts anymore". It happens naturally, there's only so much free time and there's so much music out there, so when a new album by the band that made me lose interest comes out, I simply find myself not eager to check it out.

[ytserush]

Queensryche.

Haven't heard note one after Mindcrime II.

Totally bailed. Not interested at all anymore.  Tate's second solo album holds some interest (I liked the first) but haven't even been motivated to check that out.

[Mosh]

I quit Queensryche too, though I gave the self titled a chance. Didn't bother with Condition Human and probably won't bother with the next one.

[TioJorge]

I never really "stopped" to listen to a band by conscious decision, telling to myself "Ok, this album sucks, I have to remind myself that I don't want to listen to their future efforts anymore". It happens naturally, there's only so much free time and there's so much music out there, so when a new album by the band that made me lose interest comes out, I simply find myself not eager to check it out.

Came here to post almost this exactly. It seems a little odd to me to do such a thing. If it happens naturally then that's almost more definite and assured that you're "done with the band". To force yourself into a conscious effort to not listen to them anymore seems very weird to me. Perhaps I misconstrued the statement though and I do get the idea behind it.

But yeah for me personally it just happened unconsciously. Like with DT and Metallica, two bands I listened to religiously and loved just as much, my preferences just changed and I simply stopped listening to them. It wasn't a conscious effort but I just developed different tastes. Now, I know that's different than a band you love that eventually puts out horrible music, but I'd imagine after that initial bad album (or two...three, whatever it is), you'd just stop listening to them.

[Kotowboy]

I can't think of any band that i've been properly into putting out two or three terrible albums on the trot which has made me stop listening.


After St. Anger and Death Magnetic and the 8 year gap after that plus two orion fests, one 3D movie and the Lulu album ( which i did appreciate ) -

I was about ready to give up on Metallica. Then they dropped Hardwired To Self Destruct and from the day they debuted Hardwired - they seem to be making all the right choices again.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Man... great topic!  Where to even start?

Queensryche - Empire was last album I bought
Metallica - Black album was the last
Dio - Sacred Heart was the last
Iron Maiden - Seventh Son was the last
Pearl Jam - Vitology was the last

[Adami]

Queensryche is an odd one for me. I really like their first few albums through promised land, but I got into them all relatively recently and have had no desire to check out anything past those albums. Does that count as jumping ship since it was all retrospective? I dunno.

[Kotowboy]

Man... great topic!  Where to even start?

Queensryche - Empire was last album I bought
Metallica - Black album was the last
Dio - Sacred Heart was the last
Iron Maiden - Seventh Son was the last
Pearl Jam - Vitology was the last

Have you checked out Hardwired...To Self Destruct ? Without any shadow of doubt - Metallica's best album in 25 years. Black Album 2.

Oh Bingo ! Pearl Jam !! Yeah I was a massive fan until and including Yield. After that - Binaural really didn't do anything for me and self titled only slightly held my interest.

haven't even checked out anything after that... Thank you.

[Accelerando]

Yeah, quite a few

Kamelot, DragonForce, Children of Bodom, Linkin Park, P.O.D., Coldplay, Disturbed

[Adami]

Yeah, quite a few

Kamelot, DragonForce, Children of Bodom, Linkin Park, P.O.D., Coldplay, Disturbed

When did you give up on Kamelot?