Author Topic: F#%k Everything  (Read 2491 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2017, 02:51:10 PM »

I'm not a Trump supporter, but all these people protesting...where were they on election day?

He lost the popular vote by 2.8 million.... 2.8 million marched the day after his inauguration. I think there is some correlation there?

Almost all in California.  My take only, but I think more is being made of that 2.8 million than is really there.    I don't at all think it means what some think it means.   It certainly doesn't invalidate the Trump election, and in many ways it validates it.  Much of what propelled Trump to his win was that perceived divide between the elites and the proletariat.   What better example of the elites than liberal celebrity-driven Hollywood (i.e. California) and blue-collar, United Auto Workers-driven Detroit (i.e. Michigan)?  If you're inclined to a poetic look at these sorts of things, there is a beautiful symmetry to Michigan deciding the election, and California being the primary source of that voter surplus.

I get your basic point about where voters live, but are you suggesting that liberal votes shouldn't count as much as conservative votes?

Not at all.  It has nothing to do with "liberal" or "conservative".    Votes count the same regardless of who they are for.

Offline Stadler

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2017, 03:20:45 PM »
. Though some might be, after seeing just how incompetent he's proven to be.

I still think it's way too early for this.

Yeah,  with you on that.  I don't much agree with most of what he's done, but he certainly hasn't "proven" himself incompetent.  He's only "proven" himself as a President who will do what he said he was going to do - better or worse - and who is immune to his critics, except at the most petty level.   

I have no doubt whatsoever that if his POLICIES were in line with the protestors, they would be shitting themselves with joy at the speed with which he has moved to take action.

I don't know when "incompetent" became a synonym for "I don't agree with".

Obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I called him incompetent because he is incompetent, not because I disagree with him. There are lots of people I disagree with who I don't consider incompetent. Hillary, for example, I think is an incredibly odious person, but for better or worse I don't think she's incompetent. The same could be said for any number of politicians who I find extraordinarily contemptible.

And honestly I think we could dispense with the hypothetical 'if the shoe were on the other foot' stuff. Sure, some of these people are hypocrites and would probably be fine if Trump was being an asshole about things they supported. But that's not what happened, so discussing it is kind of pointless.


I totally get  your point, and I wish very badly that it was accurate.  It's really hard not to use the hypothetical when it's being proven every day.

Obama:  we need to look harder at these seven countries    Liberal:   AWESOME.   My guy is tough, but  fair.
Trump: we need to look harder at these seven countries     Liberal:   MUSLIM BAN!   MUSLIM BAN!!!

Hillary: I have accepted donations from nine investors of [X Company] to my Foundation.  I also approved the sale of 20% of our uranium sources to [X Company] in Russia                        Liberal:  well, she's sort of odious, but she's got experience!
Trump:  I have built a building with financial backing from [Y Company] in Russia        Liberal: Commie facist traitor!!!

Obama:  I nominate Jeff Immelt CEO of GE to be our Jobs Czar!    Liberal:  Reaching across the divide, getting the experts in to help!
Trump:  I nominate Rex Tillerson, former CEO of Exxon, for Secretary of State     Liberal:  Cronyism!   Corporate Shill!

Clinton:  Had at least three affairs, two sexual assault lawsuits, and flew on a pedophile's plane   Liberal:  What does it have to do with his JOB?
Trump:  Had at least two affairs, no sexual assault lawsuits, but one tape where he admitted to "trying to kiss" a married woman who rebuffed his advances                  Liberal:  MISOGYNIST!   Pervert! 

Obama: We lost because of Fox News                    Liberal:  Yeah! Faux News!   Fascists!
Trump:  CNN is fake news                                     Liberal:  He's destroying our COUNTRY!  Undermining the press!  FASCIST!

It's not like conservatives don't do this - they do - but this notion that "Trump is somehow different" or that "Trump somehow warrants this" is really just self-justification of some very childish and repetitive behavior.

When do we break the cycle?   And if Trump is bad with his "FAKE NEWS!" nonsense, why aren't these misleading tactics just as bad? 

Offline ariich

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2017, 03:33:52 PM »
No, and I agree with your assessment. I wasn't defending the idea that Trump run because of the deplorables. Simply that he had tremendous appeal to them. And as I said above, much like the deplorables thing from Hillary, Racist assholes and fair-minded, reasonable folk can want the same thing for different reasons. Just because racist fucksticks might love Trump doesn't mean that Trump's supporters are all racist fucksticks.

Not to you, el Barto, but generally, I don't understand this line of reasoning.   Does every band, food, politician, uber driver that Ted Bundy liked become invalid?  I understand he drove a VW bug; is that now the car of choice for serial killers?   Conversely, is everyone that drives a Volkswagon a Nazi sympathizer (via their origins)?  I'm sure there are unsavory demographics that vote for ANY politician, and while the response is "well, Trump didn't specifically disavow those demographics", why should he?   His whole platform wasn't about "racists" or "homophobes", but it was about "I hear you."   And to disavow - even if politically correct to do so - was to undermine the confidence in those non-racists, non-homophobe people that haven't been heard that they were just being fed another line of bullshit.   

I don't think Trump is as dumb as people think, and I think to some degree - you don't have to AGREE with this, but at least acknowledge it - he's traded off the "anti-PC" moniker in a way that works on more levels than just "not disavowing the KKK". 


I don't disagree. Being supported by deplorables doesn't make one deplorable. At the same time by not distancing himself from them he has taken advantage of them and emboldened them in the process. If I run for governor of Vermont and make prison reform a cornerstone of my platform, promising private rooms, cable television and ribeyes every Tuesday night, won't people say that I'm running on the convict vote? Won't I be accused of empowering the criminals?
This is what I was getting at, in my hurried and probably poorly chosen wording.

Online XeRocks81

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2017, 03:36:54 PM »
. Though some might be, after seeing just how incompetent he's proven to be.

I still think it's way too early for this.

Yeah,  with you on that.  I don't much agree with most of what he's done, but he certainly hasn't "proven" himself incompetent.  He's only "proven" himself as a President who will do what he said he was going to do - better or worse - and who is immune to his critics, except at the most petty level.   

I have no doubt whatsoever that if his POLICIES were in line with the protestors, they would be shitting themselves with joy at the speed with which he has moved to take action.

I don't know when "incompetent" became a synonym for "I don't agree with".

Obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I called him incompetent because he is incompetent, not because I disagree with him. There are lots of people I disagree with who I don't consider incompetent. Hillary, for example, I think is an incredibly odious person, but for better or worse I don't think she's incompetent. The same could be said for any number of politicians who I find extraordinarily contemptible.

And honestly I think we could dispense with the hypothetical 'if the shoe were on the other foot' stuff. Sure, some of these people are hypocrites and would probably be fine if Trump was being an asshole about things they supported. But that's not what happened, so discussing it is kind of pointless.


I totally get  your point, and I wish very badly that it was accurate.  It's really hard not to use the hypothetical when it's being proven every day.

Obama:  we need to look harder at these seven countries    Liberal:   AWESOME.   My guy is tough, but  fair.
Trump: we need to look harder at these seven countries     Liberal:   MUSLIM BAN!   MUSLIM BAN!!!

Hillary: I have accepted donations from nine investors of [X Company] to my Foundation.  I also approved the sale of 20% of our uranium sources to [X Company] in Russia                        Liberal:  well, she's sort of odious, but she's got experience!
Trump:  I have built a building with financial backing from [Y Company] in Russia        Liberal: Commie facist traitor!!!

Obama:  I nominate Jeff Immelt CEO of GE to be our Jobs Czar!    Liberal:  Reaching across the divide, getting the experts in to help!
Trump:  I nominate Rex Tillerson, former CEO of Exxon, for Secretary of State     Liberal:  Cronyism!   Corporate Shill!

Clinton:  Had at least three affairs, two sexual assault lawsuits, and flew on a pedophile's plane   Liberal:  What does it have to do with his JOB?
Trump:  Had at least two affairs, no sexual assault lawsuits, but one tape where he admitted to "trying to kiss" a married woman who rebuffed his advances                  Liberal:  MISOGYNIST!   Pervert! 

Obama: We lost because of Fox News                    Liberal:  Yeah! Faux News!   Fascists!
Trump:  CNN is fake news                                     Liberal:  He's destroying our COUNTRY!  Undermining the press!  FASCIST!

It's not like conservatives don't do this - they do - but this notion that "Trump is somehow different" or that "Trump somehow warrants this" is really just self-justification of some very childish and repetitive behavior.

When do we break the cycle?   And if Trump is bad with his "FAKE NEWS!" nonsense, why aren't these misleading tactics just as bad?

You misrepresented all your examples to suit your point. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2017, 03:40:39 PM »
Please feel free to point out where. 

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2017, 03:59:49 PM »
I totally get  your point, and I wish very badly that it was accurate.  It's really hard not to use the hypothetical when it's being proven every day.

Obama:  we need to look harder at these seven countries    Liberal:   AWESOME.   My guy is tough, but  fair.
Trump: we need to look harder at these seven countries     Liberal:   MUSLIM BAN!   MUSLIM BAN!!!

Hillary: I have accepted donations from nine investors of [X Company] to my Foundation.  I also approved the sale of 20% of our uranium sources to [X Company] in Russia                        Liberal:  well, she's sort of odious, but she's got experience!
Trump:  I have built a building with financial backing from [Y Company] in Russia        Liberal: Commie facist traitor!!!

Obama:  I nominate Jeff Immelt CEO of GE to be our Jobs Czar!    Liberal:  Reaching across the divide, getting the experts in to help!
Trump:  I nominate Rex Tillerson, former CEO of Exxon, for Secretary of State     Liberal:  Cronyism!   Corporate Shill!

Clinton:  Had at least three affairs, two sexual assault lawsuits, and flew on a pedophile's plane   Liberal:  What does it have to do with his JOB?
Trump:  Had at least two affairs, no sexual assault lawsuits, but one tape where he admitted to "trying to kiss" a married woman who rebuffed his advances                  Liberal:  MISOGYNIST!   Pervert! 

Obama: We lost because of Fox News                    Liberal:  Yeah! Faux News!   Fascists!
Trump:  CNN is fake news                                     Liberal:  He's destroying our COUNTRY!  Undermining the press!  FASCIST!

It's not like conservatives don't do this - they do - but this notion that "Trump is somehow different" or that "Trump somehow warrants this" is really just self-justification of some very childish and repetitive behavior.

When do we break the cycle?   And if Trump is bad with his "FAKE NEWS!" nonsense, why aren't these misleading tactics just as bad?

Never, I guess, based on what you're saying here.

For every one of those things that your typical liberal was fine with, there was a conservative shitting their pants in rage over it. Now we've switched, and the liberals are the ones doing the shitting. The moral here is that we are never short of people defecating furiously over the president's actions.

I mean, I get that it's frustrating to watch this kind of hypocrisy and hyperbole unfold. Personally, I'm annoyed by how each side is only against war when the other side is the one waging it, and you don't hear shit from them when it's their guy doing the waging. And this goes for a lot of stuff. I still don't think discussing it to death changes anything.

Also, you kind of used my wording when referring to Hillary. I'm not sure if that's because you assume I'm a liberal, but for the record I'm not. I think Hillary would have been better than Trump, but that's kind of like saying I'd rather have my right hand cut off than my left. I think they're both awful.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2017, 04:57:16 PM »
Please feel free to point out where.
Well, I was going to point out that Grabby did have a sexual assault lawsuit filed against him, by a child no less, which I believe he settled before the election. I decided it wasn't relevant aside from the honesty side of things so I didn't (until now). But I have no dogs in this fight.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2017, 08:50:06 PM »
Pay to play.  So what about Trump's dealings?  You can make the exact same argument.  Nothing has been proven on either side here.  But to act like you know it all is just silly.

I posted a bunch of stuff about his connection to Felix Sater in the other thread.  That involved a number of deals.  Sater's dad is a Russian mafia don.

Anyway, we will find out soon enough, because even the Republican Senate has started to investigate Trump.  And they'll be forced to actually do something, because our national security is at stake.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2017, 08:54:15 PM »
Why do you jump from his "BUSINESS" deals to his infidelity?  Your argument is all over the map with respect to continuity.

(and this is addressed to Bosk's previous post as well)

Has to do with his overall honesty and faithfulness to others.  That absolutely has something to do with someone being a con man.  Same with the bankruptcies.  Same with all the contractors he stiffed.  This is a man who's shown with his past that he'll lie to anyone to get what he wants when he wants it, without any respect to his word or his commitment to others.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2017, 08:57:02 PM »
Russia isn't a tangible threat to our national security.

jsbru, took me a while to figure out that was you with your new avatar. Big upgrade, imo  :tup
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2017, 09:01:01 PM »
Russia isn't a tangible threat to our national security.

Nah, they only have about 3,000 nukes pointed at us and are at war with us via proxy over Syria and Ukraine.  And they prop up people like Hugo Chavez and Muhamar Qaddhafi to screw with our oil supply.  And are in bed with the radicals in Iran.

If you ask anyone seriously involved with national security in this country, Russia's still our #1 threat.

Quote
jsbru, took me a while to figure out that was you with your new avatar. Big upgrade, imo  :tup

Glad you like!
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

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Offline TAC

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2017, 09:01:24 PM »
  Same with all the contractors he stiffed. 

Honestly of all of the crap I heard about him during the campaign, this was the one that bothered me the most.


   This is a man who's shown with his past that he'll lie to anyone to get what he wants when he wants it, without any respect to his word or his commitment to others.

I totally understand this. And is why I didn't want to vote for him. But so far, he has at least worked toward what he said he would. And I feel like if overall, he is successful, then hopefully that translates in the country being successful.


jsbru, ...your new avatar. Big upgrade, imo  :tup

Totally agree.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2017, 09:05:22 PM »
It's easy to dismiss Senate/House investigations when R is investigating D, or D is investigating R--as pure partisan gamesmanship.

But in this hyper-partisan time, doesn't it make anyone think twice when R pledges to investigate R?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/kfile-roy-blunt-flynn-investigation/

There's a lot of smoke rising up in the air here, guys.  There's probably a fire.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2017, 09:09:04 PM »
Not to ruin it for you guys, but I started listening to that album after reading about Roger Waters' plans to do a concert on the US/Mexico border wall.  I put on Pigs (Three Different Ones) and thought this is the perfect sign of the times.  Specifically verses #1 and #3.

Hope that doesn't ruin it for you now.  ;)
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

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Offline TAC

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2017, 09:11:27 PM »
Not to ruin it for you guys, but I started listening to that album after reading about Roger Waters' plans to do a concert on the US/Mexico border wall.  I put on Pigs (Three Different Ones) and thought this is the perfect sign of the times.  Specifically verses #1 and #3.

Hope that doesn't ruin it for you now.  ;)

We're all here because we love music. It's the point of this thread really.



jsbru, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you, and where are you located in the country?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2017, 09:20:51 PM »
Nah, they only have about 3,000 nukes pointed at us and are at war with us via proxy over Syria and Ukraine.  And they prop up people like Hugo Chavez and Muhamar Qaddhafi to screw with our oil supply.  And are in bed with the radicals in Iran.

I am glad you answered succinctly, and logically. Even if I disagree.  :) I still don't know what our interests, involvement, or even care in Syria and Ukraine are. Can't we just let Putin have them, without any harm to us?

I didn't hear that about Roger, and still haven't committed to getting tix to this tour. I did see he was afraid of retaliation, (not sure what words he used) from Trump supporters. Words have consequences, so sayeth the Dixie Chicks. I sincerely hope he doesn't face any backlash. He is very outspoken of course, but not in a media whorish sort of way.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2017, 09:35:47 PM »
  Same with all the contractors he stiffed. 

Honestly of all of the crap I heard about him during the campaign, this was the one that bothered me the most.
If you're referring to the piano guys, then yeah, that was a supremely dick move. Unfortunately, it seems to be his MO. Lowball or completely stiff people. Bully them when they complain. Countersue when they file suit. Settle quietly after it's gone on far too long. Kind of sounds like the behavior of a spoiled child.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2017, 09:38:16 PM »
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2017, 09:40:53 PM »
I still don't know what our interests, involvement, or even care in Syria and Ukraine are. Can't we just let Putin have them, without any harm to us?

Mostly about access to oil pipeline pathways to certain ports.  Russia's economy is heavily based on oil production itself.

Quote
I didn't hear that about Roger, and still haven't committed to getting tix to this tour. I did see he was afraid of retaliation, (not sure what words he used) from Trump supporters. Words have consequences, so sayeth the Dixie Chicks. I sincerely hope he doesn't face any backlash. He is very outspoken of course, but not in a media whorish sort of way.

I don't think he has as much to worry about--not the same fan base!  I know bands like Floyd are big enough to have universal appeal, but most people I know who like them are either hippies or ex-hippies.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2017, 09:42:14 PM »
jsbru, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you, and where are you located in the country?

I'm in the St. Louis area.
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Offline Adami

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2017, 09:42:55 PM »
God damn, why is St. Louis so represented on this forum?

Where in Stl are you man? I grew up in Ladue.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2017, 09:46:26 PM »
God damn, why is St. Louis so represented on this forum?

Where in Stl are you man? I grew up in Ladue.

CWE.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2017, 09:47:30 PM »
More smoke rising from the trees.  No confirmed fire yet, but smoke nonetheless:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/paul-manafort-blackmail-russia-trump-235275
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

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Offline Adami

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2017, 09:55:53 PM »
God damn, why is St. Louis so represented on this forum?

Where in Stl are you man? I grew up in Ladue.

CWE.

Hipster.

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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2017, 10:00:32 PM »
All the hipsters live either in the Grove or on Cherokee Street now.  CWE is turning into a yuppie fest.  But I don't make enough money to be a yuppie.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Offline KevShmev

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2017, 10:05:33 PM »
I can't remember the last time I was in the CWE.  As someone who now lives in the Manchester/Valley Park area, I don't stray too far from my comfortable surroundings, except for concerts, sporting events, etc.

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2017, 10:13:44 PM »
All the hipsters live either in the Grove or on Cherokee Street now.  CWE is turning into a yuppie fest.  But I don't make enough money to be a yuppie.
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Online gmillerdrake

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2017, 10:20:31 PM »
I can't remember the last time I was in the CWE.  As someone who now lives in the Manchester/Valley Park area, I don't stray too far from my comfortable surroundings, except for concerts, sporting events, etc.

When y'all want to get real crazy you can come on down to Imperial. I'll take you on a tour and point out all the local Meth houses and Red Neck bars   :lol
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2017, 10:22:58 PM »
I am going to be down in Hillsboro pretty soon on business.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2017, 10:35:20 PM »
I am going to be down in Hillsboro pretty soon on business.

Drive through it every Wednesday on my weekly trip to Farmington for my project meetings at Parkland Hospital.

I tease about Imperial....I love this area. I'm 40 minutes from downtown but it feels like i live out in the middle of nowhere.....kids are thriving in school.....love it.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Adami

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2017, 10:39:33 PM »
it feels like i live out in the middle of nowhere....

You do.

Also I hope to be visiting Stl in about a year and a half. Meet up? Fight up? Blow up?
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Offline jsbru

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2017, 10:47:07 PM »
it feels like i live out in the middle of nowhere....

You do.

Also I hope to be visiting Stl in about a year and a half. Meet up? Fight up? Blow up?

Cook out.  JeffCo style.

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Online gmillerdrake

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2017, 05:06:18 AM »
it feels like i live out in the middle of nowhere....

You do.

Also I hope to be visiting Stl in about a year and a half. Meet up? Fight up? Blow up?

Would love to meet up.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Stadler

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2017, 12:03:05 PM »
Why do you jump from his "BUSINESS" deals to his infidelity?  Your argument is all over the map with respect to continuity.

(and this is addressed to Bosk's previous post as well)

Has to do with his overall honesty and faithfulness to others.  That absolutely has something to do with someone being a con man.  Same with the bankruptcies.  Same with all the contractors he stiffed.  This is a man who's shown with his past that he'll lie to anyone to get what he wants when he wants it, without any respect to his word or his commitment to others.

HE never filed bankruptcy, his company(ies) did.  To my knowledge, HE didn't stiff contractors, his company(ies) did.   Not a minor difference.   Yes, you could say he provided direction, yes, you can say he set the strategy.   But while you can criticize those strategies, it's not entirely fair to pin them all on HIM, in my opinion.   

Offline Ryzee

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Re: F#%k Everything
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2017, 12:08:27 PM »
The buck stops here.