Author Topic: The Fight For 15  (Read 5247 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #140 on: February 24, 2017, 10:39:49 AM »
We just have to keep in mind that everyone is different. I know, for me, if I had gone to community college, I likely wouldn't have gone anywhere in my life.

As far as making highschool more trade oriented, also keep in mind that we can't expect every 16 year old to be able to decide what to do with the rest of their life. Did all of you guys know exactly what you wanted to do at 16? I'm getting a doctorate in Psychology right now, and I had no clue I wanted to go into this field till my sophomore year of college.

It took me until about the age of 26 to really get a grip on what direction I wanted my life to take.

I'm 47 and still not really sure what direction I want mine to take, so you are ahead of me.  :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2017, 11:17:51 AM »
I'm 44.  No clue.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #142 on: February 24, 2017, 11:22:35 AM »
I said I have a direction, not a plan. My direction is to not be in a cubicle forever. That and a bunch of hydroponic crap is basically all I got, but it's a start  :lol

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #143 on: February 24, 2017, 11:22:56 AM »
I've always known what I wanted to do with my life, I was just realistic enough to know there was no way I was actually going to be able to make a living being a musician.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #144 on: February 24, 2017, 11:23:56 AM »
I have told myself ever since I graduated college that I would write a novel.  I have kept not doing it.

Recently, I have felt the itch again.  So we'll see.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #145 on: February 24, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
I have told myself ever since I graduated college that I would write a novel.  I have kept not doing it.

Recently, I have felt the itch again.  So we'll see.

If you want to immortalize me in fiction, you have my permission to do so.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #146 on: February 24, 2017, 11:25:39 AM »
I have told myself ever since I graduated college that I would write a novel.  I have kept not doing it.

Recently, I have felt the itch again.  So we'll see.

If you want to immortalize me in fiction, you have my permission to do so.
Sweet.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #147 on: February 24, 2017, 11:36:33 AM »
I don't have problem having to work most of my life. I don't have a dream job but I don't dread coming to work. My primary purpose in life right now is to provide for my family and I'll do whatever I have to do make sure my family lives comfortable lives. I get the feeling that a big chunk of society wants or even expects the right to live lifestyles that aren't compatible to their current financial situation. I'd love to drive a Lincoln but I know I can only afford a Ford. One day if I keep work hard and gaining experience maybe one day I'll be able to afford my Lincoln. I have no problem earning it.

Also, people need to realize that if their skill set/education level only leads to a fast food job then they need to think hard and fast about the number of kids they have. If you can only support one child then don't have more than that.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #148 on: February 24, 2017, 11:57:39 AM »
I want to hit on something else, though:  the ideas of "dream job" and the ideas of "self-improvement".

I sort of think that it's how you look at it.   I don't think guys like Mark Cuban or Richard Rawlings worried about "time for school" or "dream job".  They just sort of did it.   And I think you have to be honest with yourself about what your talents are and what your interest is.  If you're 4'3" and missing a leg, and your passion is "basketball", what does that mean?   Are you going to be a starting center for the NY Knicks?  Perhaps, but more than likely, perhaps not.  But you can be a photographer, or announcer, or work in the front office...  it's how you play it.   My "dream job" is probably "rock star", but my skill set is in thinking strategically, and negotiation.  So I focus on that.    But I've been lucky enough to do those things for companies that gave me a taste of the thing I'm passionate about.  I used to live in Burbank for work; I could (and did) hang at the Rainbow if I wanted (sat next to Ron Jeremy and shot the shit one night.   Great guy, but high as a kite and didn't smell very good).  I worked out of 30 Rock for a short time (not on air, but I've stood on the Saturday Night Live stage).   

My son's passion is mechanics.  So he got an associates for auto mechanics, and works as a tech - no one's dream job - but joined the Army to work on helicopters.   Gets to work on possibly the ultimate mechanical engine.   And now he has some scratch to flip cars in his spare time.   

I don't suppose that everyone who is complaining about their lot in life is just sitting on the couch playing video games, but I do wonder how much thought actually goes into the process, and how honest with themselves those people are being.   My daughter is an AMAZING artist.   Her cousin is a well-known fantasy artist - who has done work for Disney among others, and has an impressive array of album and book covers - and says she is  probably more talented than he is, if not as technically adept yet, but she has ZERO discipline.   So the idea of her being a successful freelance artist is probably not good.   But we talked and she got into cosmetology, specifically makeup design, and while she's still got zero motivation, and has a hard time getting to school, she's getting a taste of what's out there.  She did a fashion show, and some movie makeup (bullet holes and cuts and stuff) and was fascinated. 

Personally, I think there should be more of this kind of discussion in high school and college.   No, not everyone can be this - the world needs janitors too (and no knock; that's still the best job I ever had) - but there are people with the temperament and skill set to be janitors.    To some, that is their dream job.

We're talking here about "changing mindsets", and some of the talk is transcendent change.  Well, we need at least INCREMENTAL change.   We need to start thinking about our careers as something proactive and that we can manage. We have to start being more "macro" on our careers.  Or, if we're not willing or capable of doing that, we have to be honest with ourselves.   If we're going to limit our careers to 37.5 hours per week, and we're not willing to move, not willing to "give up our weekends", not willing to put our pay at risk (performance incentives, etc.) then we have to accept that we are in effect saying we're not willing to be more than what we are right now.   
 





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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #149 on: February 24, 2017, 01:05:11 PM »
I have told myself ever since I graduated college that I would write a novel.  I have kept not doing it.

Recently, I have felt the itch again.  So we'll see.

If you want to immortalize me in fiction, you have my permission to do so.
Sweet.
Just make sure it's a five story anthology.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #150 on: February 24, 2017, 02:41:06 PM »
I think that trade schools and community colleges are woefully understressed in this country.  So much of high school in this country is about college prep (meaning 4-year colleges/universities), but frankly, a lot of people don't really need bachelors degrees, and also there are lots of careers that wouldn't require any more than vocational training or an associates degree that are just as lucrative (if not more) than many degrees requiring bachelors degrees.

The amount of friends I have that needed a bachelor's degree to do something they could have been trained to do in four weeks boggles my mind. One of them literally spends 8 hours a day handing people plastic cups and watches them piss in it for the state. When they're done he tapes the lid shut and slaps a sticker on it. A justice and law degree was needed to get that job. Even my job in corporate America could have easily been covered in 6 months of dedicated courses. So much time is wasted in college. Don't get me wrong, I love anthropology, history, and bio, but I shouldn't have had to waste one cent taking those classes if my goal was to get into a technical field. Two art classes, two PE classes, music appreciation classes, photography... c'mon. I spent at least 2 years of my college career taking unnecessary filler bullshit. I'm already hating the master's degree trends. They have value in certain fields, but the amount of 40+ year olds that I work with that are back in school is crazy. You do not need a master's degree to be a project manager.

But you did it, and you are now eligible for that job.   The other people that said "F*** this noise" are not.   That's not the only reason for college, but it is one of them.   You also have "runway".  No (good) company is hiring you JUST for their current position. 

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #151 on: February 24, 2017, 02:51:15 PM »

It took me until about the age of 26 to really get a grip on what direction I wanted my life to take.

Same for me pretty much.

1. Upon graduation at 18, I had absolutely no clue whatsoever what I wanted to do.
2. Around 24, I started to have an idea about what I wanted to do, but was still pretty nieve about the world.
3. Only now, at 29 do I finally feel like I have my life where I want it and have a good grasp and understanding of both my life and the world around me. Took many, many years though.

Incidentally, it was around 29 that I actually enjoyed being alive for the first time in my adult life, and I feel that was due to finally grasping some sense of self actualization and agency.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:29:36 PM by Phoenix87x »
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Online El Barto

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #152 on: February 24, 2017, 03:44:34 PM »
I don't think anybody here is making this suggestion so this is not accusatory in any way. But, we seem to have established that there are many variables about college including how to do it and whether or not to do it. We've established that some people know what they want to do and others have no idea. I'm 46 and still in that camp whereas there are the happy wanderers that just land in the right place the right time through no skill or effort on their part. We've established that some people are just driven to make what they want happen, and others don't reach that point until later or not at all. Drive and ambition are psychological traits that may or may not develop.

So what do way say to the people who don't find their way? Tough shit, make a new plan? Part of what troubles is me is that none of us choose our own personality types or brain wiring. It's real easy for the motivated personality types to say "figure out what you want to do and do it," but of course it's never that simple. Or that if you want a living wage get some sort of education, which might or might not be applicable. I don't think anybody here is going to cop to "buck up and get a real job if you want to live," but it still comes back to where we started. Whether or not somebody with no aspirations beyond flipping burgers, playing CoD 17 and banging his girlfriend should be afforded a living wage. Or the guy who wants to work around until he finds his way in life. Or the person who mistakenly thought he was going to be the next James Hetfield and dropped out of school due to youthful ignorance. How do we hold all of these people to the same standards?
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #153 on: February 24, 2017, 04:01:41 PM »
  How do we hold all of these people to the same standards?
This should come as no surprise but I have no idea what you are asking. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #154 on: February 24, 2017, 04:18:52 PM »
I don't either.  I was waiting for someone who did to respond so I could figure it out.  :lol
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #155 on: February 24, 2017, 05:01:25 PM »
This has frequently fallen back to the question of whether or not a burger flipper should earn a living wage. We've established that ambition, vision, and the role of advanced education are variable across the population and the job market. Does/should "if you want a living wage better yourself and find a real job, asshole!" hold true in all cases?

Many people. Different circumstances and mindsets. One standard.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #156 on: February 24, 2017, 05:26:27 PM »
I don't either.  I was waiting for someone who did to respond so I could figure it out.  :lol
I gotcha bro!




But doesn't the Gov't supplement shortfalls, ie Food Stamps, WIC programs? Why should someone running a business not be able to set what they will pay for each job, minimum wage not withstanding.

I think most people support a minimum wage. But how high can it go?

At some point, the rate will be too high for some businesses to continue. There's only so much margin.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online El Barto

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #157 on: February 24, 2017, 05:34:50 PM »
I'm not sure most people actually do support a minimum wage. But for those that do, what's the point of it if it doesn't supply a living wage? If you can't live off of $7.25/hr, and I don't think you can, then why can't it be a buck-fifty? Or nothing?

And I don't think margins are an issue as they'll just pass the price along to consumers. Consumers will obviously bitch if their Big Mac goes from $3.99 to $4.25, but the price changes all the time, and for lesser reasons than the cost of living for their employees.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #158 on: February 24, 2017, 05:53:56 PM »
I'm not sure most people actually do support a minimum wage. 

No? That would surprise me.

  And I don't think margins are an issue as they'll just pass the price along to consumers. Consumers will obviously bitch if their Big Mac goes from $3.99 to $4.25, but the price changes all the time, and for lesser reasons than the cost of living for their employees.

Of all of the things that increasingly bite into margins, I would think labor costs would take the most, besides utilities. Most places, even ones dependent on minimum wage employees do yearly reviews with small wage increases attached. Total labor dollars rises each year. And maybe $4.25 for a Big Mac isn't a big deal, but is $5.99? $6.99? At some point, they'll not sell enough Big Macs to pay for their workers.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 05:59:38 PM by TAC »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #159 on: February 24, 2017, 06:10:21 PM »
Bart, of all the people your answer surprised me.  You big business will never lose their profits.   It would a lot more than you are stating.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #160 on: February 24, 2017, 06:25:46 PM »
I'm not sure most people actually do support a minimum wage. 

No? That would surprise me.
To be honest, I'm not sure I do. What I do know is that in the current model they don't make much sense. Why force Walmart to pay their people some arbitrary wage that doesn't amount to a living? If it's not tied to the cost of living it seems rather pointless. Particularly when we have to pay for their medicaid and foodstamps anyway.

Bart, of all the people your answer surprised me.  You big business will never lose their profits.   It would a lot more than you are stating.
English, motherfucker! Do you speak it!

If my King translator is working correctly, I think you're suggesting my estimate of twenty five cents more per Big Mac was incorrect, and you were right. It's sixteen cents. Or in better terms, a 4.3% increase across the board.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #161 on: February 24, 2017, 06:27:25 PM »
So Bart, what is your actual position on this issue? And you can't answer with a question! :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Online El Barto

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2017, 06:36:49 PM »
In a nutshell, the current system is inadequate and we're not really apt to change it. I haven't claimed to have the answer, simply because I'm not sure there is one at this time. Mostly I'm exploring a couple of points this thread has hit upon. Are we entitled to a living wage? Is the current system well suited for the vagaries of the population? Of the ever-changing status of employment? 
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #163 on: February 24, 2017, 06:39:31 PM »
 
  Are we entitled to a living wage? Is the current system well suited for the vagaries of the population? Of the ever-changing status of employment? 

Um...

So Bart, what is your actual position on this issue? And you can't answer with a question! :lol
Guess I should have pluralized that!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #164 on: February 24, 2017, 06:53:08 PM »
 :lol
 :lol

Sam always wins.

Big business never will lose a penny.  It's always on the consumer and basically a $5 raise is big time money that we will pay for.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #165 on: February 24, 2017, 06:54:40 PM »
I wasn't answering with questions. I didn't even ask questions. I related the questions I've been mulling over the last two days.
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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #166 on: February 24, 2017, 06:57:04 PM »
I wasn't answering with questions. I didn't even ask questions. I related the questions I've been mulling over the last two days.

 :lol Wut?

Reminds me of this quote!

English, motherfucker! Do you speak it!

 ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2017, 07:00:15 PM »
Oh I get it.  I've often wondered how it would effect commerce.   How it would effect the economy.   Too many unanswered questions.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #168 on: February 24, 2017, 07:04:41 PM »
Oh I get it.  I've often wondered how it would effect commerce.   How it would effect the economy.   Too many unanswered questions.
Dude, I'll generally welcome you to my side of an argument, but don't you ever defend my usage of English!  :lol
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #169 on: February 24, 2017, 07:08:17 PM »
 :rollin

I defer to the master.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2017, 08:27:54 PM »
I have told myself ever since I graduated college that I would write a novel.  I have kept not doing it.

Recently, I have felt the itch again.  So we'll see.

If you want to immortalize me in fiction, you have my permission to do so.
Sweet.
Just make sure it's a five story anthology.

:clap:

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #171 on: February 27, 2017, 07:51:39 AM »
I don't think anybody here is making this suggestion so this is not accusatory in any way. But, we seem to have established that there are many variables about college including how to do it and whether or not to do it. We've established that some people know what they want to do and others have no idea. I'm 46 and still in that camp whereas there are the happy wanderers that just land in the right place the right time through no skill or effort on their part. We've established that some people are just driven to make what they want happen, and others don't reach that point until later or not at all. Drive and ambition are psychological traits that may or may not develop.

So what do way say to the people who don't find their way? Tough shit, make a new plan? Part of what troubles is me is that none of us choose our own personality types or brain wiring. It's real easy for the motivated personality types to say "figure out what you want to do and do it," but of course it's never that simple. Or that if you want a living wage get some sort of education, which might or might not be applicable. I don't think anybody here is going to cop to "buck up and get a real job if you want to live," but it still comes back to where we started. Whether or not somebody with no aspirations beyond flipping burgers, playing CoD 17 and banging his girlfriend should be afforded a living wage. Or the guy who wants to work around until he finds his way in life. Or the person who mistakenly thought he was going to be the next James Hetfield and dropped out of school due to youthful ignorance. How do we hold all of these people to the same standards?

I think the answer to your question might be in "how do we define the standard"?   I don't at all suggest that we assess everyone the same (and I'm with you 1000% on the personality type thing) but what's the standard we're talking about?  Making ends meet?   

Offline Chino

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #172 on: February 27, 2017, 08:12:56 AM »
Might be a little derail, but the comment below made me think of this thread. Back Story: There was a 3D printer campaign that cost $179 plus $55 for shipping. I received a defective unit, and 12,000+ backers got burned entirely and received nothing.

People need to learn how to budget their money in this country. I'm certainly guilty of pissing money away. I just chose to put $700 into a new remote control race truck over needed housework. But if I was shit broke, I would not be buying expensive toys on Kickstarter.

Leadergg about 6 hours ago

I can't believe it failed
179+55 $ this is my one month's salary
How can I tell my family I was cheated
I'm a hard-working man, but now I'm stupid
You stole the money from the poor people
My dream is dead I hate you
Pay back the money
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 08:28:11 AM by Chino »

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #173 on: February 27, 2017, 08:25:08 AM »
I hear you Chino. One of my biggest hobbies entails going to a bunch of conventions each year. Every time there are people complained that they are so expensive or that they spent so much on merchandise they'll have to eat ramen for the next week.

On one hand I don't want to be a gatekeeper or sound elitist, but on the other hand, this is an expensive hobby. If they literally are spending their food money, they need to reprioritize.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Fight For 15
« Reply #174 on: February 27, 2017, 08:34:48 AM »
Might be a little derail, but the comment below made me think of this thread. Back Story: There was a 3D printer campaign that cost $179 plus $55 for shipping. I received a defective unit, and 12,000+ backers got burned entirely and received nothing.

People need to learn how to budget their money in this country. I'm certainly guilty of pissing money away. I just chose to put $700 into a new remote control race truck over needed housework. But if I was shit broke, I would not be buying expensive toys on Kickstarter.

Leadergg about 6 hours ago

I can't believe it failed
179+55 $ this is my one month's salary
How can I tell my family I was cheated
I'm a hard-working man, but now I'm stupid
You stole the money from the poor people
My dream is dead I hate you
Pay back the money


Chino, you're my guy and all, but at the risk of sounding insensitive, the italicized piece drives me batty.  I'm assuming that's not you, but some other poster; why is any of that the seller's fault?  That "Leadergg" is presumably an adult, presumably of sound mind.  HE made that choice.  True, they have to deliver on the goods (or give a refund) but that he wagered the well-being of him and his family to make that purchase is no one's fault but his.