Examples of overplaying

[Sycsa]

So I just stumbled upon a video which inspired me to start this thread.

Example of overplaying: https://youtu.be/8Pa9x9fZBtY?t=2m26s

Someone on Facebook posted the above live version of Sultans of Swing. I clicked on it, let it play in the background without paying much attention to it, but at 1:14 something caught my ear and made me look up. Wow, you don't often hear drumming like that in classic rock. It has a modern, almost MP-esque vibe. Checked out the comments below, virtually everyone was crazy about the drummer, Terry Williams, but for me it quickly started to feel like out-of-place overplaying. Playing a bunch of huge fills like the one at 2:30 over such a characteristic and melodic guitar part, it might just be the single most blatant example of overplaying I have ever heard.

The whole thing made me think of Gavin Harrison's awesome "when to play fills" video: https://youtu.be/bedjJzQu6Lk?t=2m31s

Nevertheless, Terry's playing seemed intriguing enough, so I checked up a little on him and found this interesting article: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing
Apparently, Dire Straits recorded the entire Brothers in Arms album with Terry Williams, before deciding that the drumming wasn't fitting, so they axed him and his drum parts and brought in a replacement drummer, who knocked it out in two days. They kept the explosive intro to Money for Nothing from Terry's original drum tracks though, and brought him back for subsequent touring.

Anyway, what are your examples of some blatant overplaying?

[Kotowboy]

Any drummer in a tech metal band.

It's like the entire song is one big drum solo .

[Train of Naught]

Can't say I agree with that at all ^ I probably listen to different tech metal bands than you do then.

The guitars on the other hand.. Luke Hoskin from Protest the Hero plays some of the most technical guitar parts I've ever heard, and most of the time it's during verses which are meant to be centered around catchy vocal hooks. I don't really get it, but I've gotten to the point where I mostly ignore the guitars and try to narrow my focus down to the vocals whenever they're present.

[ariich]

Can't say I agree with that at all ^ I probably listen to different tech metal bands than you do then.

The guitars on the other hand.. Luke Hoskin from Protest the Hero plays some of the most technical guitar parts I've ever heard, and most of the time it's during verses which are meant to be centered around catchy vocal hooks. I don't really get it, but I've gotten to the point where I mostly ignore the guitars and try to narrow my focus down to the vocals whenever they're present.

No way, the busy guitars is what I find so distinctive about PTH. I love how intricate the instrumentation is.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Almost thought you stole my thread

[Train of Naught]

Can't say I agree with that at all ^ I probably listen to different tech metal bands than you do then.

The guitars on the other hand.. Luke Hoskin from Protest the Hero plays some of the most technical guitar parts I've ever heard, and most of the time it's during verses which are meant to be centered around catchy vocal hooks. I don't really get it, but I've gotten to the point where I mostly ignore the guitars and try to narrow my focus down to the vocals whenever they're present.

No way, the busy guitars is what I find so distinctive about PTH. I love how intricate the instrumentation is.

Some times I do like it, like on most of Volition it's actually really really cool. Pacific Myth is mainly where it bothered me, but then again, I'm not a huge guitar guy anyway.

And regardless, they remain one of my favourite bands, so they must be doing something right. Maybe I like it subconsciously

[Kotowboy]

Most of that super techy - super busy music annoys the crap out of me anyway.

Esp. the stuff where it's like a riff on the low string with some deliberately awkward rhythm and a semi quaver arpeggio at the end of every 4th bar.

And where the snare is almost *never* on the 2 or 4. It's just designed to sound awkward and super gated and I don't get anything out of it in the slightest.

[Chino]

I can't think of an example off hand, but one thing my dad used to tell me when I was trying to pick up guitar as a kid was "the notes you don't play are just as important as the ones you do". He'd often use the Red Hot Chili Peppers as an example of how you didn't need a million notes to sound loud and groove.



Also, this:

[TAC]

The Drummer At The Wrong Gig! Those are awesome videos.

[Kwyjibo]

Isn't overplaying a big part of what makes prog music prog? 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Isn't overplaying a big part of what makes prog music prog? 

You are my new hero.

[Nekov]

Isn't overplaying a big part of what makes prog music prog? 

lolno. You can do great prog without overplaying, but I will agree that most prog bands tend to overplay at one point or another.

I think JP has been overplaying his solos for the last couple of years, going for turbo speed instead of focusing on the melodies.

[ReaperKK]

I'm going to get shit on for this comment but I think JR overplays a lot. It makes sense in the DT realm but when it seems like whenever I check out his work on youtube of his solo releases there will be this beautiful melody in the intro followed by a section where he tries to play as many notes as possible.

[Bolsters]

I'm going to get shit on for this comment but I think JR overplays a lot. It makes sense in the DT realm but when it seems like whenever I check out his work on youtube of his solo releases there will be this beautiful melody in the intro followed by a section where he tries to play as many notes as possible.

I agree. That Notes On A Dream album is just completely unlistenable to me.

[erwinrafael]

MP in Blind Faith, keyboard solo. He was almost trying to upstage JR when it was clearly JR's moment.

Don't get me started on Wither.

[jakepriest]

MP in Blind Faith, keyboard solo. He was almost trying to upstage JR when it eas clearly JR's momeng.

lol no

[Bertielee]

MP in Blind Faith, keyboard solo. He was almost trying to upstage JR when it eas clearly JR's momeng.

lol no

Strange, but I've never felt that MP overplayed, like at all.

B.Lee

[Kotowboy]

I have - even when I was a big fan of his before he left the band.

[RoeDent]

I'm going to get shit on for this comment but I think JR overplays a lot. It makes sense in the DT realm but when it seems like whenever I check out his work on youtube of his solo releases there will be this beautiful melody in the intro followed by a section where he tries to play as many notes as possible.

In 2011, at the show where JR and JLB debuted Space Dye Vest live, they improvised a blues 'song' for fun, and JLB said "That's the most notes I've heard in a blues in my life!" I agree to an extent though. Sometimes it's cool, other times he uses 50 notes where just 5 are needed.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Honestly as a drummer that Terry Williams clip wasn't that bad, i've heard worse. What I can tell from the video he just seemed excited to be free man. I get your point though because it's still a bit too much even if he was excited.

I pretty much has the same approach as Gavin when it comes to fills and such.

[Kotowboy]

Honestly as a drummer that Terry Williams clip wasn't that bad, i've heard worse. What I can tell from the video he just seemed excited to be free man. I get your point though because it's still a bit too much even if he was excited.

I pretty much has the same approach as Gavin when it comes to fills and such.

Also John Illsley makes that bass look really small

[Sycsa]

Honestly as a drummer that Terry Williams clip wasn't that bad, i've heard worse. What I can tell from the video he just seemed excited to be free man. I get your point though because it's still a bit too much even if he was excited.

I pretty much has the same approach as Gavin when it comes to fills and such.

I didn't necessarily think of it as "bad" either (I even labeled it intriguing), just that it's blatant overplaying in the context of that song. I don't consider overplaying to be always and inherently a bad thing, especially live. If a drummer is excited and has that much energy, he's more than welcome to channel it and give it out. This is rock and roll, after all. I enjoyed his playing, even though I thought that less would have been more. Still interesting to hear this version compared to the studio version. As a DT fan, I would even say that, in general, I appreciate flashy "overplaying" more than subtlety. I never liked Porcupine Tree and I'm not really into Gavin's playing, albeit that video of him explaining drum fills is great in and of itself.

Yes, I realize that the word "overplaying" has a negative ring to it, and me saying that it's not necessarily a bad label seems contradictory, but I find that this is often the case in prog world, as this meme illustrates it eloquently.

[KevShmev]

Examples would be just about any time Jordan Rudess plays a solo originally played by Derek Sherinian or Kevin Moore. 

[SystematicThought]

In that Dire Straits video, the keyboard player is definitely over dancing 

[nobloodyname]

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but Petrucci's solo in Hollow Years on the Train of Thought tour.

Good grief, John.

[Adami]

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but Petrucci's solo in Hollow Years on the Train of Thought tour.

Good grief, John.

Man, talk about an overrated solo. It has some AMAZING parts at the beginning and the end, but when he just shreds, I lose interest.

[Cyclopssss]

Hate to say it and as much as I love their cd 'Winter', the drummer of Oceans of Slumber, on almost ALL of the tracks. There's displaying your virtuosity and then there's overstating that by a mile.

[Sycsa]

Hate to say it and as much as I love their cd 'Winter', the drummer of Oceans of Slumber, on almost ALL of the tracks. There's displaying your virtuosity and then there's overstating that by a mile.

I had a hunch that his drumming will be praised on YouTube the same way as in the Dire Straits video. Nailed it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzqnetYSbk

Unsung hero of this band: The drummer. Like that guy is REALLY good. He manage to both have a LOT of diversity and epic rythm at the same time. It is rare that I can listen to a band with such profound (in the sense of being loud and easy to hear) drumming and still love it!

jesus these drums are absolutely unparalleled. Goddamn, not since I heard Dream Theater for the the first time have I been so impressed be a drummer.

[Architeuthis]

 One word. "Dragonforce".    The drummer just loves to prove over and over that he can play the double bass..lol!

[Art]

The drumming on Crimson Idol by WASP.

[?]

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but Petrucci's solo in Hollow Years on the Train of Thought tour.

Good grief, John.

Man, talk about an overrated solo. It has some AMAZING parts at the beginning and the end, but when he just shreds, I lose interest.

Agreed.

[PixelDream]

Gavin Harrison on Hatesong from the Arriving Somewhere DVD. The second half just gets totally off the rail with unnecessary polyrhythms that don't do the song any good.

[Cool Chris]

Keith Emerson.

[Phoenix87x]

I apologize to anyone who likes them, but Animals as leaders.

Two separate times they were an opening band at concerts I went to and despite being a huge prog nerd and a guitar player, I just felt like it was going on and on.

[jakepriest]

I apologize to anyone who likes them, but Animals as leaders.

Two separate times they were an opening band at concerts I went to and despite being a huge prog nerd and a guitar player, I just felt like it was going on and on.

I like Joy Of Motion but the entire second album and a good majority of their first album are unlistenable for me. To quote Amadeus: "Too many notes."