Author Topic: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?  (Read 1704 times)

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Offline SeRoX

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Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« on: February 16, 2017, 04:00:32 AM »
It's like they are always touring and they are also writing new album, recording and promoting. It's like everlasting circle. I mean it's perfectly usual for a music band being in this strenuous work.

But considering their age and almost 3hour long concert each day, guys must be very tired and I even think they are overworked. I appreciate DT for this. But worry at the sametime, especially for James, for I know voice is affected by age and long concert schedule and he still tries his best. Despite all the bashing he gets from especially youtube comments James must be praised more.

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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 04:52:08 AM »
I think it's a mix of them liking what they do, and the music industry not allowing them to disappear for 4 years or something, given that they're not selling like Lady Gaga or Queen.

I don't think they're killing themselves, they never tour for more than a month at a time to not stay away from their families too long, and they have breaks between tours and albums recordings, so they're not on an album-tour spree for me, maybe they have just a month or two (I remember what a luxury it seemed to them to have 6 months after the Octavarium tour ended in April 2006) but they do take a breath here and there.

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 05:33:07 AM »
Yeah, I wouldn't think so either. In fact, their probably on a creative high for the last two years or so.
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Offline Shooters1221

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 05:46:06 AM »
Agree with above. I think they would take necessary time off if they needed. Look at whole MP situation when he wanted to take time off. ;) They know their limits.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 08:36:21 AM »
I love this topic, because it can be discussed in so many ways.

I don't think the band is overworked. But I do think the band members, themselves, probably are getting a little burnt. I expect them to take a pretty big break after the I&W 25th tour is done, at least from the public eye. I think once DT plays the big North American cities on the I&W tour, they'll have saturated the markets for DT for at least a few years.

I'm not saying DT is going on a three-year vacation, but I do think they will take a significant break to let things recharge and let their next steps, creatively, come to them. It'd be the wise thing to do. Their profile, in my opinion, took a little bit of a hit with The Astonishing. Unlike the last several releases, DT didn't seem to grow its fanbase much, and the  record polarized the fans more than anything. JP and the band may love the Astonishing, but they aren't blind to that fact either.

I think The Astonishing novel, a potential TA/I&W live release, etc., will all be spaced out to keep DT in the music fan's face a bit, but the band itself will reign itself in for a few years before rolling out something new.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 09:06:02 AM »
I don't know if they are overworked, but I think they push themselves to the limits of what they can handle.  They cut back this show a bit by cutting two songs to help with that.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 11:03:27 AM »
I don't know if they are overworked, but I think they push themselves to the limits of what they can handle.  They cut back this show a bit by cutting two songs to help with that.
Yeah, I agree with that.  I would say that, in general, no they don't overwork themselves.  At least, not from what I have seen.

That said, I think when they are on tour, they do push themselves to the brink (and perhaps, slightly past it).  All told, they play a LOT of cities.  And they often do so with fairly minimal breaks between shows.  I think that has a lot to do with the economics of touring.  DT are in an interesting position because they are popular enough where they can't just do a stripped down club tour that is (relatively) cheap to finance.  They need a full crew, and they are playing venues that are big enough where they feel the need for a big, polished production.  That costs a lot of money.  But on the flip side, they aren't playing the HUGE venues and playing to crowds big enough that they can just take their time on a tour and not care about the additional cost.  So they push the envelope to make it cost effective, and I think that is hard on them.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say it is probably hardest on James as a vocalist than anyone else.  Maybe Mangini might be the member that the touring schedule takes the second biggest toll on, since his job is very physically demanding, but also perhaps requires the most mental concentration to follow the click and keep everything perfectly on time to avoid trainwrecking the band.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 11:21:20 AM by bosk1 »
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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 11:14:05 AM »
Great post, bosk. The economic side of things, and why bands tour a certain way is often forgotten. Good reminder. Although I can't help but wonder if they'd be wiser to scale back the production moving forward a bit, in order to save themselves some of that cash. I've always found the economic issues of touring to be fascinating.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 11:20:16 AM »
Great post, bosk. The economic side of things, and why bands tour a certain way is often forgotten. Good reminder. Although I can't help but wonder if they'd be wiser to scale back the production moving forward a bit, in order to save themselves some of that cash. I've always found the economic issues of touring to be fascinating.
It's a tough call.  It may be "smart" from an economic savings perspective.  But I know that JP really feels driven to have a very polished, professional looking production.  Not sure how the others feel about that because I haven't spoken with them.  But he really wants it to have the atmosphere of, say, a Floyd concert, even if they can't match the huge production that those guys were able to do on later tours.  And even approaching that on a smaller scale is expensive.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 11:40:01 AM »
The current tour is effective enough for me, it's simple and yet the light show is good enough to create a good atmosphere. Don't know however if that relative simplicity translate in a cost less at least than the Along for the Ride tour.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 12:00:14 PM »
Yeah, I think they've stripped down the visual aspects on this tour. And they might as well, given how ambitious The Astonishing tour was visually, and let's not forget the DT12 tour might have been their best one in terms of stage set, screen projections and stuff.

Offline Herrick

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 05:56:06 PM »
I think they're fine as long as they're taking care of themselves and not making a significant amount of screw-ups live.

It was also a really good decision to start tuning down the earlier material.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 07:14:56 PM »
I just watched this video from the recent Düsseldorf Gig:

https://youtu.be/TpfXILXjEE8

While I don't necessarily think DT overall is overworked, what James is doing from 2:20 on can't be good for his voice. I really hope this kind of constant strain isn't going to send him back into the late 90s.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 07:45:18 PM »
Maybe Mangini might be the member that the touring schedule takes the second biggest toll on, since his job is very physically demanding, but also perhaps requires the most mental concentration to follow the click and keep everything perfectly on time to avoid trainwrecking the band.

I'm of the understanding that this is all very demanding of Mike. In the video that started the other thread, the "people" that watched it said he looked very tired. And these are people that know him.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 07:50:23 PM »
Actually, after I posted the above video, I checked out the other videos from the Düsseldorf concert. Yeah, the band looks tired. Maybe this was on the heels of a previous gig, but I do wonder whether they're enjoying this tour. It's a hell of a strain on James for sure.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 08:50:01 AM »
Maybe Mangini might be the member that the touring schedule takes the second biggest toll on, since his job is very physically demanding, but also perhaps requires the most mental concentration to follow the click and keep everything perfectly on time to avoid trainwrecking the band.

I'm of the understanding that this is all very demanding of Mike. In the video that started the other thread, the "people" that watched it said he looked very tired. And these are people that know him.

Mangini often posts on facebook about being physical tired.  I'd say if anyone in the band is overworked, it is him, especially since he has more learning to do on the material than the other guys.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 10:01:30 AM »
I have actually wondered why, when knowing they were going to do this tour, they didn't prepare during TA soundchecks. That's what a lot of bands do, use soundchecks as a band rehearsal.
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Offline gborland

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »
Honestly, I would enjoy DT shows a lot more these days if they scrapped the video screens and stage sets.

Just the five guys, a few basic lights, a hot sweaty venue packed to the rafters, and two hours of awesome music.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 11:56:23 AM »
While I don't necessarily think DT overall is overworked, what James is doing from 2:20 on can't be good for his voice. I really hope this kind of constant strain isn't going to send him back into the late 90s.
I think James might be onto something here.

He altered the vocal melody by dropping it for a whole octave lower, still maintaining a nice melodic touch several times throughout the verse and making it more comfortable to sing.

And guess what? It doesn't sound bad. It doesn't take away from the song. He might as well hammer it out during the next few months. It could work.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 01:00:35 PM »
And I think you're onto something actually. So far James has been approaching the tough sections like a figure skater who just landed on her butt 30 seconds earlier. That is, she will make the approach as if going for the triple toe loop, but then at the last second opt for a safer option. Similarly, James approaches the high section as if he is going for it, and then replaces the hard snippet with something else.
I think if they had said down beforehand and had worked out different melodies for the hard stuff, they even could have kept everything in the original key. I personally actually enjoy when bands evolve their tunes over the years.
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Offline Herrick

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 01:52:53 PM »
While I don't necessarily think DT overall is overworked, what James is doing from 2:20 on can't be good for his voice. I really hope this kind of constant strain isn't going to send him back into the late 90s.
I think James might be onto something here.

He altered the vocal melody by dropping it for a whole octave lower, still maintaining a nice melodic touch several times throughout the verse and making it more comfortable to sing.

And guess what? It doesn't sound bad. It doesn't take away from the song. He might as well hammer it out during the next few months. It could work.

Yeah when I read rumborak's post and clicked the link, I thought LaBrie was going to go for the high stuff. It doesn't sound like he's really straining himself at all. Smart move.
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Offline CB

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 02:09:22 PM »
Definitely onto something. He did the same thing (or at least something very similar) with that line in Hamburg last tuesday and it worked very well, sounded better than in Düsseldorf (imo the background vocals ruined the part there, I didn't hear them in Hamburg). If I hadn't known the song I'd thought that was the original melody. JLB altered only few notes/lines in Hamburg, despite being still sick. I don't mind a few notes being lower than in the original and a few different melody lines, that makes the live show even more interesting for me. I wonder if JLBs so called "missed" notes aren't (in most cases) deliberately done to avoid straining the voice too much, they just don't sound out of tune enough for being mistakes. I&W has far too many very high notes to sing almost every evening for weeks, and sparing the voice for the more important climax parts makes sense, especially if a singer is tired from touring or ill. JLB definitely can still sing high notes, the F in LTL is proof of that, or this video I found on YouTube (also from the Hamburg Show, starting 2:30).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo1NH9sF-os

Offline SeRoX

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 02:55:23 PM »
This is TTT from Malmö which JLB alter the melody and I like it. It sounds better that way and plus it's safer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsofnWGIdg

It has a story about John Myung LaBrie telling and one thing is sure, I can listen all day JLB talking. What a great Canadian accent.
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Offline Devin Townsend

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 03:11:10 PM »
Honestly, I would enjoy DT shows a lot more these days if they scrapped the video screens and stage sets.

Just the five guys, a few basic lights, a hot sweaty venue packed to the rafters, and two hours of awesome music.

I agree, they need to get back to entertaining, interacting with the fans more too.

James: "You crowd fuckin' enjoying it tonight?" *crowd cheers unabashedly "This next song is called Metropolis, it's the story of superman. Who wants some motherfucking shredding? *crowd is hysterical and Metropolis starts



"this song is dedicated to everyone mad at their dad" *James rips off shirt and does chicken dance

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Offline Mladen

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 03:27:18 PM »
This is TTT from Malmö which JLB alter the melody and I like it. It sounds better that way and plus it's safer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsofnWGIdg
This has potential. If he keeps hammering it out, he might not only survive the tour, but deliver some fine, consistent performances.

So far James has been approaching the tough sections like a figure skater who just landed on her butt 30 seconds earlier. That is, she will make the approach as if going for the triple toe loop, but then at the last second opt for a safer option. Similarly, James approaches the high section as if he is going for it, and then replaces the hard snippet with something else.
That would be a good way to put it, actually. However, judging by the Malmo clip, he is kind of getting rid of trying to go high and then alter the melody if he finds out it won't turn out too well. This way, he's keeping it safe from the start.

Offline Ravenfoul

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 10:12:36 PM »
I just want to say that I think when LaBrie goes with a planned accent, instead of trying to go for the notes his pipes won't let him hit and going 'oh shit'... that he sounds way, way better. I really like what he's doing in that last video. His voice has a lot of character and variety to offer.

Offline Evai

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2017, 07:43:41 AM »
I just want to say that I think when LaBrie goes with a planned accent'... that he sounds way, way better.

I dunno, I think people might have a problem if he sounds like this the whole concert

https://youtu.be/Nls-xJbMhS0?t=262
eh

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 12:12:25 PM »
I always wondered why DT tried to cram so many gigs into so few days. I guess their budget just can't support too many unpaid days for them and the crew. It's going to hit a wall eventually, they'll either need more days off or will have to completely scrap I&W type songs for James' benefit.

Offline will_gordon

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2017, 02:03:43 PM »
Classically trained singers don't seem to suffer from vocal strain or injury as much as rock singers. Many have similarly rigorous schedules, so what gives? Example: Barbara Streisand killing it at 74.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2017, 02:21:18 PM »
Classically trained singers don't seem to suffer from vocal strain or injury as much as rock singers. Many have similarly rigorous schedules, so what gives? Example: Barbara Streisand killing it at 74.

My theory would be that classical music has had hundreds of years of creating a maintainable art form. That is, for example, singers are classified into their range (tenor, soprano etc) and are thus not expected to be able to sing outside of their range. And a composer will write music with the staff constraints in mind, e.g. "I'm writing my piece for two singers, and I want the man to be a tenor and the woman to be an alto. So, I will write the music to those constraints." Not only that, they will know that they can't push the limits of a singer 5 times in 10 minutes. Instead, they will keep a tab, and spread out those things. Long story short, classical composing is much more a craft.

In contrast, I think to some degree the expectations on especially prog rock/metal musicians is that they can do *everything*. And so, stuff gets written that is both above and below what should be written for the staff at hand.
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Offline will_gordon

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2017, 02:24:03 PM »
Thanks. That's an excellent point.

Offline Scottjf8

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Re: Unpopular Opinion: Is DT overworked?
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2017, 04:09:33 PM »
I just want to say that I think when LaBrie goes with a planned accent'... that he sounds way, way better.

I dunno, I think people might have a problem if he sounds like this the whole concert

https://youtu.be/Nls-xJbMhS0?t=262

LOL