2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[King Postwhore]

He was injured though.  It you have a start at key positions you build around that.  So for each team it is a little different.  Though the QB is by far the most important position on the team.

[Stadler]

I'm on the fence about the usefulness of a pass rusher, factoring in Watt's absence last year. HOU seemed to do better without him. Could just be their team and scheme though, where as they accommodate him or something.

Then again, Von Miller almost singlehandedly earned the Broncos a title (not literally, I get it, but he stepped up significantly and was the difference in TWO games). 

[Cable]

I won't fully disagree about the QB's importance in the game today. Especially as others have said with it being a passing league now, full tilt.

About other positions and rating their importance, I think it boils down to skill of the player. Outside of the O-line and interior clogging DTs, if a player is amazing, they can transform a team or games. As great as Anthony Munoz was, Ogden and so on, I don't think they could have transformed a game. There are some DEs that are more harmful them helpful- look at all the "pass rush" specialists late career, vs. when they were younger. Dwight Freeney and Bruce Smith come to mind. However, people like L-Taylor, Rice, Jason Witten, Singletary, D.Brooks, Ed Reed, D-Sanders and Lott slayed for most of their careers. And all of them were able to take over IMO.

That all said, a weak line on either side will can still mess up a team, it's just more manageable due to the numbers of lineman and scheming, especially offensive IMO. Mark Schlereth has been honest in that he couldn't due a moving block or something on Denver during their peak, yet you would have never known that based on the results.

But I don't like ranking positions by importance at all. The O-line is the number #1 reason IMO why the Pats' offense sputtered in SB42 & 46, because the line couldn't stop the pressure well enough for Brady's skillset at that time.

[Stadler]

I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play.  A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally.   The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.   

[mikeyd23]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

[PowerSlave]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.

[Cable]

I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play.  A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally.   The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.

Run vs. pass, pull vs not, double-team vs. not. Who are the other personnel, what are they doing? Where are they positioned? What down it is, how many yards to first? In the redzone? Score of game? Type of play, where is it designed to go? Audible? What are the alternate options? Status of defensive players, who is who? What play do we expect from them? Lots of variables and situations to me.

I've heard that actually the intelligence needed for O-line is higher than other positions. But I hear you Stadler of O-line needed to go on every play, as the QB- well after the exchanges and handoffs are not go time generally.

[mikeyd23]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.

Yup, but I'd consider a beat up Hayden better than a 100% Cockrell, and that's basically what this comes down to. Hayden and Burns is a much stronger starting two corners than Burns and Cockrell.

[Stadler]

I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play.  A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally.   The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.

Run vs. pass, pull vs not, double-team vs. not. Who are the other personnel, what are they doing? Where are they positioned? What down it is, how many yards to first? In the redzone? Score of game? Type of play, where is it designed to go? Audible? What are the alternate options? Status of defensive players, who is who? What play do we expect from them? Lots of variables and situations to me.

I mean "situational" in the sense of "every down".  There are several plays a game that the running backs or receivers can (though the best do not) take a down off.   Le'Veon Bell is likely not on the field during a field goal, or punt, or certain passing downs (I'm not a Steelers fan, so if ACTUALLY Le'Veon Beal is, give me a break, and substitute in another player who isn't, because if he is, he is one of the exceptions to the rule). 

[KevShmev]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

I agree that going all-in is the smart move, but they will never make the Super Bowl in the next few years if they have to play New England in the playoffs.  Let's face it, the Patriots own them.  It's no coincidence that the three times the Steelers have made the Super Bowl in the Belichick/Brady era were seasons they got lucky and avoided NE in the playoffs: 2005 (NE lost to the Broncos in the 2nd round), 2008 (Brady out of the year) and 2010 (NE lost to the Jets in the divisional round).

[mikeyd23]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

I agree that going all-in is the smart move, but they will never make the Super Bowl in the next few years if they have to play New England in the playoffs.  Let's face it, the Patriots own them.  It's no coincidence that the three times the Steelers have made the Super Bowl in the Belichick/Brady era were seasons they got lucky and avoided NE in the playoffs: 2005 (NE lost to the Broncos in the 2nd round), 2008 (Brady out of the year) and 2010 (NE lost to the Jets in the divisional round).

I agree. I see a lot of folks predicting a Steelers - Pats AFC final and as a Steeler fan, I'm not terribly excited about that. 

Now that being said, if the Steelers can luck out again, like you mentioned, and somehow avoid NE, this team might be able to win it again before Ben retires.

[King Postwhore]

Is is weird thing about how teams just match up well against each other. It's true that the Patriots really do match up well against the Steelers but they have the hardest time against the Broncos. This happens in all sports.

[PowerSlave]

Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.

I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.

Yup, but I'd consider a beat up Hayden better than a 100% Cockrell, and that's basically what this comes down to. Hayden and Burns is a much stronger starting two corners than Burns and Cockrell.

Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.

[mikeyd23]

Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.

True that. It's totally out of character for the franchise, I didn't expect them to do this at all because it's not traditionally the "Steeler way".

Makes me wonder if they changed from their usual behavior due to Ben's shrinking window or because Dan's gone and Art II is running the show completely now. Or maybe a combination of both.

[PowerSlave]

Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.

True that. It's totally out of character for the franchise, I didn't expect them to do this at all because it's not traditionally the "Steeler way".

Makes me wonder if they changed from their usual behavior due to Ben's shrinking window or because Dan's gone and Art II is running the show completely now. Or maybe a combination of both.

When I first seen the moves I thought it was all about Ben, but now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a little bit of a change in the way that they do things. As long as they don't do drastic changes then I think they will be good.

[mikeyd23]

When I first seen the moves I thought it was all about Ben, but now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a little bit of a change in the way that they do things. As long as they don't do drastic changes then I think they will be good.

Yeah if Art II can strike a balance between traditional Steeler consistency and couple that with some modern risk taking, that would be welcomed by me.

[El Barto]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731077-jacoby-brissett-reportedly-traded-to-colts-from-patriots-for-phillip-dorsett

I don't get this at all. Even under the circumstances WR isn't their most pressing need. Moreover, we've seen that you can't just drop a receiver, even an excellent one, into NE's system and have it work out. And he's not even a kick returner.

Eh, nice thing about being a Patriots fan is that I don't have to worry about these sorts of things. Bill knows what he's doing. It'll be fine.

[King Postwhore]

They were short a receiver so I guess they put it as a priority.   Lots of trades with the new set up for getting to 53.

Also, WUT?!

[TAC]

Also, WUT?!

That's nuts!

[King Postwhore]

Heath Evens even Tweeted that it wasn't his choice. Lol

[TheCountOfNYC]

Also, WUT?!

That's nuts!

Yeah...no. As much as I hate to say it, Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time and as long as he is there, New England will always have the edge in coaching.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

If anyone wants to play NFL Survivor, come on over.   https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50791.0

[Destiny Of Chaos]

My predictions for 2017. Don't feel too good about them overall. I know that Atlanta's due for a Super Bowl hangover, but the team still seems loaded to me. The AFC is all about New England unless something crazy happens. The NFC is an absolute toss up, with just about half the teams able to make a Super Bowl run.

AFCE
1. New England
2. Miami
3. Buffalo
4. N.Y. Jets

AFCN
1. Pittsburgh
2. Cincinnati (WC)
3. Baltimore
4. Cleveland

AFCS
1. Houston
2. Tennessee
3. Indianapolis
4. Jacksonville

AFCW
1. Oakland
2. Kansas City (WC)
3. L.A. Chargers
4. Denver

NFCE
1. Dallas
2. Philadelphia (WC)
3. N.Y. Giants
4. Washington

NFCN
1. Green Bay
2. Detroit
3. Minnesota
4. Chicago

NFCS
1. Atlanta
2. Carolina
3. Tampa Bay
4. New Orleans

NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)
3. San Francisco
4. L.A. Rams

MVP Aaron Rodgers
ROY Joe Mixon

Super Bowl 52 - New England defeats Green Bay

[KevShmev]

I agree with that prediction.  I think GB finally gets back to the SB this year, but NE is too loaded. It helps to play in the weak AFC, too. If NE plays to form, I can't imagine any AFC team beating them in the playoffs.  With the NFC, TB and Philly are good up and coming teams, I agree that Arizona should bounce back, and also I am not buying the Giants hype (o-line is too awful).

Not sure I agree about ROY of the year, though. Mixon could be good, but I think Dalvin Cook is more much poised and ready to be great from the start (assuming the Vikings o-line is improved at all).

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I agree with that prediction.  I think GB finally gets back to the SB this year, but NE is too loaded. It helps to play in the weak AFC, too. If NE plays to form, I can't imagine any AFC team beating them in the playoffs.  With the NFC, TB and Philly are good up and coming teams, I agree that Arizona should bounce back, and also I am not buying the Giants hype (o-line is too awful).

Not sure I agree about ROY of the year, though. Mixon could be good, but I think Dalvin Cook is more much poised and ready to be great from the start (assuming the Vikings o-line is improved at all).

During most of the offseason, I was thinking that the Giants were ready to make a super bowl run, but you're right, that o-line is dreadful.

I was honestly torn between Mixon and Cook. I think that the Bengals are gonna have a better season than the Vikings, so that's what swayed it for me, even considering how well Cook has looked. But I hope you're right.... me being a Ravens fan and all. Do not want to see the Bengals get back to the playoffs.

Speaking of the Ravens, I think that they will be one of the best defensive teams in the league, but having not seen Flacco throw, and with having a dreadful o-line of their own... just couldn't pull the trigger on them making it back to the playoffs.

The AFC west and NFC south should be fun to watch. All of those teams are pretty close together.

[KevShmev]

Agreed.  I fear a 6-10 season is coming for the Broncos.  It is gonna be hard to finish above .500 in that division with such a shaky QB situation (and with Kubiak no longer there to coach Siemien up). 

The Saints defense is supposedly gonna be improved (which we hear every year), but if it ever does, they are back in contention as a legit threat.  What a shame to see so many of Brees' best years go to waste on a team with a dog shit defense.

[Stadler]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731077-jacoby-brissett-reportedly-traded-to-colts-from-patriots-for-phillip-dorsett

I don't get this at all. Even under the circumstances WR isn't their most pressing need. Moreover, we've seen that you can't just drop a receiver, even an excellent one, into NE's system and have it work out. And he's not even a kick returner.

Eh, nice thing about being a Patriots fan is that I don't have to worry about these sorts of things. Bill knows what he's doing. It'll be fine.

It's even more baffling why Indianapolis is doing that deal.   Brissett isn't ready yet, and he's a different QB than Luck... that shows a team in turmoil, if you're asking me. 

[Stadler]

They were short a receiver so I guess they put it as a priority.   Lots of trades with the new set up for getting to 53.

Also, WUT?!

That's insane.   Especially given that it is Andy Reid.  I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton.  Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league.  But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid?    GTFO. 

[Cool Chris]

NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)

I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?

[KevShmev]

Especially given that it is Andy Reid.  I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton.  Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league.  But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid?    GTFO.

*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*

Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).

Can't win the big game?  Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.

Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games."  But he can't win those?  The facts say otherwise.

John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).

LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).

NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)

I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?

I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.

[King Postwhore]

Kev, that's the NFL Network pic.

[KevShmev]

Okay, they suck, too. 

[King Postwhore]

 

Heath Evens who is on the right tweeted this out right away.  Damn funny.  The guy on the left is Maurice Jones-Drew.  He's the one that picked Reid because his record on week one and after byes is .722 winning %.

You think somebody would tell him that Belichick's percentage is .777.

[El Barto]

Especially given that it is Andy Reid.  I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton.  Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league.  But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid?    GTFO.

*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*

Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).

Can't win the big game?  Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.

Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games."  But he can't win those?  The facts say otherwise.

John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).

LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).

There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters. 

[King Postwhore]

Completely agree El Barto.