2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[Cool Chris]

So glad I can't watch this game because the Seahawks are playing in Seattle at the same time.

[King Postwhore]

Tony Romo is correct. How do you let Gronk go one-on-one in that two point conversion?

[King Postwhore]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[King Postwhore]

Well Pats D.  You blew it.

[El Barto]

What a fucking game. 

[mikeyd23]

Dear lord, James caught that TD from where I’m sitting....

Highway robbery at its finest.

[max_security]

Damn , 2 wild endings in the same game.

[El Barto]

I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.

[King Postwhore]

By the rules of the game that wasn't a catch. Instant replay is ruining the game.  That being said, thst was one hell of a win for the Pats.

I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.

Agreed.  I still hate instant replay.

[El Barto]

Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.

[Ben_Jamin]

Two great endings back to back was nice to watch.

[mikeyd23]

I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.

Looked like a clean football catch to me.

[TAC]

Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.

Their kicker kicked 6 FGs!! Wow!!

[King Postwhore]

Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.

It's amazing what a real quarterback for team can do. So far few in between.

[Nick]

Jimmy G and Gould FTW!

I know it doesn't matter for shit this year, but I'm ready for next season!

[jingle.boy]

I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.

Not sure what you define "bobbling", but I certainly wouldn't see it that way.  His left hand rolled over the ball, while his right was still mostly underneath it.  So, I guess for the NFL, the definition of a catch is "2 palms on the ball"?  Just because the back of his hand was on the ball, that means it's not a catch?  His knee and elbow were down when he crossed the plane of the goal-line.  Why then does it matter what happens when the ball hits the ground?  Where's the rule that "the ball can't cause a fumble"?  If the ground can't cause a fumble, then it can't cause ANY loss of control.  Doesn't the downed knee AND elbow give him control of the ball regardless of what the ground does AFTER that - IN THE ENDZONE?

Funny how the north-eastern members are validating the call; the PA residents are bitching about it.  I don't have a horse in the race, and I think that it's utter bull-shit.  He had full control of the ball.

[TAC]

  I don't have a horse in the race

Then STFU!













 

[King Postwhore]

Because I've seen it happen against us. I'll be the first to say I hate replay and I wish they get rid of it but if they using it that's the right call.

[TAC]

Honestly, I don't have any issue with Instant Replay, in any sport. Get it right.

[KevShmev]

I only saw the last 5-6 minutes of the game (family Christmas party today), but catch or not, that loss is all on Roethlisberger. You simply cannot throw that ball at the end into triple coverage.  Once no one got open right away, throw it away, kick the FG, and go to OT.  Of course, I thought they should have gone for it on 4th at 1 with just over 2 minutes ago to win the game right there, but what a surprise that Mr. Aggressive Mike Tomlin wimped out and punted. Because punting and hoping your D will stop Tom Brady when it counts has worked so well for teams over the years.

[PowerSlave]

Congrats to the Pats. That was an amazing game by both teams.

Having said that, I still believe the Pats are the best team in the league, but I also believe that the Steelers are very capable of competing with them and beating them in the future. That's not something that I could have said in recent years. The playoffs should/could be very interesting.

[King Postwhore]

 it's too bad that Brown got injured. He's one hell of a player.

[DragonAttack]

The Calvin Johnson 'non catch' when all this crap of 'no one knows what a catch is anymore' started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq2ohfX_AzI  (no bobble, two steps, an elbow and his behind touching the field....)

[El Barto]

I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.

Not sure what you define "bobbling", but I certainly wouldn't see it that way.  His left hand rolled over the ball, while his right was still mostly underneath it.  So, I guess for the NFL, the definition of a catch is "2 palms on the ball"?  Just because the back of his hand was on the ball, that means it's not a catch?  His knee and elbow were down when he crossed the plane of the goal-line.  Why then does it matter what happens when the ball hits the ground?  Where's the rule that "the ball can't cause a fumble"?  If the ground can't cause a fumble, then it can't cause ANY loss of control.  Doesn't the downed knee AND elbow give him control of the ball regardless of what the ground does AFTER that - IN THE ENDZONE?

Funny how the north-eastern members are validating the call; the PA residents are bitching about it.  I don't have a horse in the race, and I think that it's utter bull-shit.  He had full control of the ball.

The definition of a catch is that you have to maintain control throughout, including contact with the ground. He didn't control the ball when it hit the ground. Not a catch.

And no, the knee and elbow down don't give him control. Controlling the ball gives him control. The knee and elbow make him down, if control is established. It was not.

For the record, I'm not fond of this "what is a catch" shit anymore than anybody else. Megatron scored the game winning TD, IMO. But the genie's out of the bottle now.  Since the networks are going to show 9 angles after every catch, do we want to just go back to "looked like a catch to me. Touchdown!"? There's the ability to get calls right now and that's what needs to be fixed.

One thing I do like is that the decisions are made in NY now. Gives multiple refs a good opportunity to look at it, discuss, make the right call, along with the refs on the field.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, I remember that Megatron catch, which was total bull-shit.  And you're right EB, the genie is out of the bottle.  But again, how did it look like James lost control yesterday - because his right hand was still under the ball, and his left hand rolled over from palm-to-back.  That constitutes a loss of control?  The way I see it:

Exhibit A) a knee/elbow to be considered a catch when at the sideline (assuming a player keeps "control")
Exhibit B) when the ball crosses the plane of the goal-line and subsequently becomes dislodged (ie, they lose control even 1" after crossing the line), it's a TD
BUT... when a player makes a good catch with 2 steps and/or elbow/knee down at the goal-line, then "loses/bobbles" it when he hits the ground, it's not a catch.

A is a catch; B) is possession, but A+B is not?

[mikeyd23]

Congrats to the Pats. That was an amazing game by both teams.

Having said that, I still believe the Pats are the best team in the league, but I also believe that the Steelers are very capable of competing with them and beating them in the future. That's not something that I could have said in recent years. The playoffs should/could be very interesting.

I agree. After the emotion of how the game ended, this is my biggest takeaway. I'm clearly on record in this thread as a Steeler fan, I'm also clearly on record in this thread as saying that I don't think the Steelers can beat the Pats. After yesterday, I have hope, which is something I didn't have before. I think this Steeler team is totally capable of beating the Pats in the Playoffs, especially if they have their MVP playing the whole game. Before yesterday, I couldn't have said that.

Also - jingle is totally right - James should have had a TD there, and honestly I'm still not sure how they overturned that call. Specifically, James caught the ball, made a football move by turning and throwing his body toward the goal line, and crossed the line. Period. Even if the bobble mattered, he kept one hand under the ball at all times and never lost control.

[King Postwhore]

I believe the football move has to be steps.  It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground.  That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.

[mikeyd23]

I believe the football move has to be steps.  It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground.  That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.

Does it? Then why don't they use verbage in the rule that simply says steps? Why use a weird term like football move? Even still, if that is the case, James did more than enough to maintain possession of that ball when he went down to the ground. Especially since the call on the field was a TD, I'm still very surprised they saw enough to over turn it.

Oh also - an interesting note on what happened after that. Apparently, Ben was calling the play on the field, and was telling everyone to "clock it" meaning he wanted to down the ball, stop the clock, breath, and then either set up a play to go for it or kick the field goal to send it into OT. As Ben was doing this - the coaches on the sideline were yelling "don't clock it". So half the dudes on the team thought Ben was spiking it on that play that got picked.

Unreal incompetency. I've said it before, but Tomlin and Haley drive me insane. Ben was totally in the right with his line of thinking. Now that all said, Ben shouldn't have thrown that ball where he did, he should have just thrown it away, but the dude shouldn't have been put in that position to begin with...

[jingle.boy]

I believe the football move has to be steps. It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground.  That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.

I see your point, but still think it's BS.  A knee/elbow is the qualifying "football move" at the sideline.  Why isn't it the qualifying move at the goal-line?

Regardless, I still think the NFL has a very ... fluid ... definition of "control".  If James only had one hand on the ball (his bottom hand), would it have been a catch?  If the answer is "yes", then why does the position of his top hand (palm vs back of the hand) deem he lost control of the ball.  That's the real point here (now that I've read the rule that someone posted)



It's the very last sentence... *if* he loses control, *and* the ball touches the ground.  I guess I just never saw him losing control of the ball just because his top hand rolled over the ball.

[King Postwhore]

I do too guys.  I think replay blows.

[jingle.boy]

I do too guys.  I think replay blows.

Replay is fine if they get it right.  And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.

[King Postwhore]

I do too guys.  I think replay blows.

Replay is fine if they get it right.  And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.

Well then by the rule you posted above he did not maintain control when his arms hit the ground and the ball in fact moved and hit the ground.  That is an incomplete pass.

[jingle.boy]

I do too guys.  I think replay blows.

Replay is fine if they get it right.  And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.

Well then by the rule you posted above he did not maintain control when his arms hit the ground and the ball in fact moved and hit the ground.  That is an incomplete pass.

That's the issue.  "Control" is far too ambigous.  I've explained clearly my belief as to why he *did* have control.  Why is it that you feel he *did not* have control?

[King Postwhore]

I do not feel that way.  The rules do.  A receiver has to have full control of the ball going down to the ground unless he is in a running position after the catch.  What everybody gets confused about is how many steps constitutes control. he turned as he caught it never making a running motion so he had to have control when hitting the ground.  He did not.

[El Barto]

If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.

The Dallas game was a hoot. After making one of the stupidest PIs you'll ever see Dallas deserved to lose that game. If you're in perfect position to make a play for the ball don't mug the receiver. It's completely unnecessary. I started rooting for Oakland after that. The only way I'd want Dallas to win that game is if the Raiders did something even more stupid. And boy did they.