Author Topic: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty  (Read 209247 times)

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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #1995 on: December 05, 2017, 02:48:36 PM »
It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong.  It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it.  However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.

Isn't it better for the team if he doesn't do something stupid in the first place?  This appeal crap is nothing but damage control after the fact that he already hurt the team.  Players shouldn't even be allowed to appeal something like that.  It's not like it's alleged or anything.  :lol
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #1996 on: December 05, 2017, 02:50:59 PM »
I live in Patriots and Giants country. The Patriots fans sports radio hosts today agreed that JJSS led with his shoulder, not helmet, and helmet contact was more accidental. The taunting for sure makes it look worse though. They’re not agreed on the blind-side aspect either, they were running toward each other. Is JJSS supposed to make sure VB sees him? You can’t legislate where a player’s eyes are looking if they are running toward each other. I also don’t understand Gronk getting the same suspension for a non-football play. Both players would be smart to just serve their suspensions now so that they’re ready for the head to head matchup.

Anyway, I wish this ugliness would stop. With VB finally getting his you would like to think it could end, but probably not. Too much bad blood. Four games a year of this when you add in the Ravens games and I appreciate it every time the killer Bs survive the game. 😔




Offline cramx3

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #1997 on: December 05, 2017, 02:52:54 PM »
It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong.  It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it.  However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.

Isn't it better for the team if he doesn't do something stupid in the first place?  This appeal crap is nothing but damage control after the fact that he already hurt the team.  Players shouldn't even be allowed to appeal something like that.  It's not like it's alleged or anything.  :lol

Of course I agree with that.  No one wants dirty hits in the league.  I'd really love for the appeal to fail, because I don't think there's really much of a case personally. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #1998 on: December 05, 2017, 03:06:42 PM »
I figured I should watch the clips and see what the fuss was.   

One, let me note that I couldn't find the Smith-Schuster hit... until I went to NFL.com, so there's a head scratcher there.  It's flagrant, let's stop it, but make sure you come to our website to see it!

Two, I don't know; game, no game, Gronk's hit was poor, but is it on the level of choking someone?  I don't think so.  But if you're going to stop shit after the whistle, a game is fair.

Three, the suspension of JJSS ought to be for the taunt.  I don't see ANYTHING wrong with the hit.  In the field of play, during a play, and if Burfict's head was up, he sees JJSS coming.  I played hockey until I was in college, and it was an unwritten rule;  you skate with your head down, you were going to get flattened.    That's what happened here.   Now, in a heated game, I get it, the taunting can't happen.   But fact is, a 6'1" 250 lb linebacker got flattened by a 6'1" 215 lb. receiver.  Whaaaaaaaa.

Four, the Shazier play was creepy; no flag there, but you could see his body go limp at the hit.  I hope he's okay.   

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #1999 on: December 05, 2017, 03:13:39 PM »
Good analysis. Louis Riddick is on the front page of ESPN right explaining the ridiculousness of the same 1-game suspension.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2000 on: December 05, 2017, 03:20:23 PM »
That's Riddick you liss.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2001 on: December 05, 2017, 03:22:37 PM »
I figured I should watch the clips and see what the fuss was.   

One, let me note that I couldn't find the Smith-Schuster hit... until I went to NFL.com, so there's a head scratcher there.  It's flagrant, let's stop it, but make sure you come to our website to see it!

Two, I don't know; game, no game, Gronk's hit was poor, but is it on the level of choking someone?  I don't think so.  But if you're going to stop shit after the whistle, a game is fair.

Three, the suspension of JJSS ought to be for the taunt.  I don't see ANYTHING wrong with the hit.  In the field of play, during a play, and if Burfict's head was up, he sees JJSS coming.  I played hockey until I was in college, and it was an unwritten rule;  you skate with your head down, you were going to get flattened.    That's what happened here.   Now, in a heated game, I get it, the taunting can't happen.   But fact is, a 6'1" 250 lb linebacker got flattened by a 6'1" 215 lb. receiver.  Whaaaaaaaa.

Four, the Shazier play was creepy; no flag there, but you could see his body go limp at the hit.  I hope he's okay.   

2. To be fair, Suh didn't choke him. He got him by the neck Darth Vader style and shoved him to the ground. Still should have gotten him a game, though.

3. He tried to take the guy's head off and then celebrated when he succeeded. I don't think it was a taunt so much as a celebration of a dangerous hit.

4. Spinal contusion. He wasn't Christopher Reeved, but it'll probably take some time before he's playing pick-up games at the park.


Good analysis. Louis Riddick is on the front page of ESPN right explaining the ridiculousness of the same 1-game suspension.
I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2002 on: December 05, 2017, 03:59:19 PM »
There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.

Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.

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Offline DT2003

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2003 on: December 05, 2017, 07:23:30 PM »
Couple thoughts: 

- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.  I'm convinced that it's not that Brady has more around him, but that Brady elevates those around him.    Look at the number of Patriots "stars" that go to other teams and fade into obscurity.   Some of it is system, I'll give you that, but that's ANY good player, otherwise you have 11 guys running around like it's multiplayer Call of Duty Zombies.    Patriots have never had a Marshawn Lynch.   Even when they've had a Jimmy Graham (Gronk), inexplably (NOT!) they have a better record when he's NOT in the lineup.

This is exactly how I feel. Brady is one of the few QBs that make average players look like stars. Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers are the two others that come to mind, but Brady absolutely elevates players around him.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2004 on: December 05, 2017, 07:30:26 PM »
That is one of many reasons why they are 3 of the greatest to ever play the position. :coolio

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2005 on: December 05, 2017, 09:01:32 PM »
There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.

Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.

Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?

Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3

Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2006 on: December 06, 2017, 12:44:53 AM »

[/quote]I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]

If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground.  There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension. 
 If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2007 on: December 06, 2017, 04:46:59 AM »
There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.

Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.

Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?

Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3

Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2008 on: December 06, 2017, 04:50:35 AM »

I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]

If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground.  There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension. 
 If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
[/quote]

You have to take in account a players history when you give discipline.   If Gronk did this before he would get multiple games.


It was a lapse of judgment,  albeit a big lapse so one game is appropriate.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2009 on: December 06, 2017, 04:51:29 AM »
There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.

Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.

Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?

Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3

Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2010 on: December 06, 2017, 06:29:50 AM »
I love going up there.  The wife and i always do a B&B for a few days.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2011 on: December 06, 2017, 06:56:12 AM »
3. He tried to take the guy's head off and then celebrated when he succeeded. I don't think it was a taunt so much as a celebration of a dangerous hit.

I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.

Barto I think I respect your opinion more than most anyone else here, but how are you making a leap and assuming intent in both situations with different conclusions? Here's the thing - we have no clue on Gronk's intent or SS's intent.

All we can do is look at what we know. What we know is that SS made a football play that landed a few inches high and he stood over the guy afterward. If he happen to land that block a few inches lower, it would simply be an awesome block. Gronk did not make a football play that missed by a few inches.

I'm cool with SS getting the one game, I also would have been cool with him only getting fined. I'm not a huge fan of those guys pretty much getting the same discipline for very different offenses. But we can't judge intent, we have no clue.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2012 on: December 06, 2017, 07:32:30 AM »
I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated.  At those speeds it really hard to tell.  Either way both deserved the game suspension.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2013 on: December 06, 2017, 07:35:24 AM »

I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]

If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground.  There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension. 
 If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
[/quote]


But I don't agree with that.    Like I said, if I was King, I mean Goodell, I would be stopping the things after the whistle.  The whistle is the almighty.  Gronk doesn't get a suspension for "wanting to hurt the guy"; he gets a suspension for playing after the whistle.  Same with JJSS; I don't care if he wanted to ring Burfict's bell, he did it legit and within the rules of the game. it's the taunt/celebration that's the problem.  If you don't think that Ronnie wanted to mash people's kidneys every time he hit someone you weren't watching him closely.   Wanting to put a solid hit on someone is not, at this point, a flaggable offense.   I don't think you can legislate players wanting to play hard.   You CAN legislate players wanting to take it past the play.

I used to play flag football with a bunch of my friends.  I'm a short, fat guy, but I'm faster than I look and I have great hands (sorry, I do), so I played like a slot guy.   We sucked, but I was second in the league in TDs (there was one team with a guy with an arm like Rodgers and a receiver that was like the wind; basically every possession was three tries at a deep bomb, and they usually hit it one of those three times).   EVERY TD, I just either put the ball down on the ground or handed it to the ref.  No games, no spikes, no nonsense.   Play's over, the play's over.   What happens between the whistles, well, other than the obvious - going for the knees, leading with the helmet (which we've seen hurts the tackler as much as the ballcarrier), etc. - is part of the game.    In my opinion, JJSS/Burfict was part of the game. 

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2014 on: December 06, 2017, 07:36:06 AM »
I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated.  At those speeds it really hard to tell.  Either way both deserved the game suspension.

Right, and what I'm saying is that we have no clue if that's the case. To me, SS went to throw a block during a play and it landed a little high. For me to say it's premeditated would be a huge leap, there's no way of knowing that.

Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2015 on: December 06, 2017, 08:16:10 AM »
You can say he lost his cool and also say it was dirty.  It's not exclusive. 
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2016 on: December 06, 2017, 08:24:08 AM »
I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated.  At those speeds it really hard to tell.  Either way both deserved the game suspension.

Right, and what I'm saying is that we have no clue if that's the case. To me, SS went to throw a block during a play and it landed a little high. For me to say it's premeditated would be a huge leap, there's no way of knowing that.

So why do we have sportswriters, TV personalities, and people on this forum saying that Gronk deserved more than JJSS? Didn't one of them call it insulting? I'm simply going by what I've seen and what I knew leading up to this. Other people are, as well, but it seems to me they're making more out of it than I am.


Quote
Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.
I'm not explaining it away. I think he fucked up and deserved his suspension. I'm also recognizing that from what I saw it looked like a spontaneous thing, much as he described.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2017 on: December 06, 2017, 08:36:51 AM »
Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.

I don't know that anyone is "explaining it away."  Just explaining it.  Look, I can't stand Gronk for a variety of reasons.  And I'm no Patriots fan.  But I see a difference in the two plays for sure, and I see Gronk's as less severe.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for him.  There absolutely should.  I'm not about to argue otherwise.  But I do support what I believe is being said here, which is that while he needs to face the music for what he did, it's less severe than the other play we are talking about.  We draw this distinction all the time.

Let's take a murder case for example.  Killer A decides he has had it up to here with the guy down the street.  He spends the next week or so following the guy to discern his routine and figure out when would be the best time to strike.  He then researches and buys the weapon he thinks will be the most effective.  He plots and comes up with the perfect plan to get the deed done with maximum efficiency.  When the time is right, he strikes, and in cold blood, puts a bullet in the back of the guy's head, taking him out instantly.  Killer B is your average guy who does to work every day, loves his wife and kids more than anything, and does his best to follow the rules and never hurt anybody.  One day, he comes home early to surprise his wife with flowers and a ticket to that thing she loves, only to find her in bed with the guy down the street.  Killer B loses it, and in a fit of rage, picks up the Louisville Slugger he keeps by the bedside and beats both to the bloody pulp.  In the minute or so that it takes, they two suffer in excruciating pain, which only lingers and increases in the several minutes it takes before their lives slip away.  Killer B is horrified at what he did, and can't believe he just "snapped" like that.  Our criminal justice system typically makes a distinction between these two cases.  Both have severe consequences.  But the law recognizes that snapping in the heat of the moment is different than plotting and premeditating something and deliberately carrying it out in cold blood. 

Or let's bring it back to sports.  Basketball player A hates a player on the opposing team and wants to "teach him a lesson."  All game long, he finds a way to be close to that player and in his face.  He initiates a lot of contact throughout the game.  Then, when the time is right and he thinks the refs aren't looking and they are sort of tangled up and it will look like an accident, but the play is over and the other player is disengaging, Player A deliberately throws an elbow that catches the other player in the jaw.  Now on the other side, we have Player B, who basically follows the rules and plays clean.  The guy defending him has been playing dirty all night, doing cheap things and not getting called for it.  On one play in particular, Player B is going for an easy shot, and the defender doesn't even try for the ball, but just shoves Player B into the seats and then stands there laughing.  Player B snaps, and before he can think about it, jumps up and takes a swing.  Again, both plays are unacceptable.  Both have consequences.  But the heat-of-the-moment bad act after the play is over is much more understandable. 

I'm not saying Gronk is the guy in either of those scenarios.  But he is like the guy who just snapped and acted in the heat of the moment.  So, while I don't think anyone here is excusing what he did, I think people are just saying that it is understandable, and once he pays the piper for it, we should just move on.  And we shouldn't have much grief over it either.  He's stupid.  He lost his cool and his self control.  But, best I can tell, he isn't a thug who has a practice of trying to go outside the rules and hurt people.  So, yeah, to me, it's less egregious than a premeditated act.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:54:01 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2018 on: December 06, 2017, 08:48:19 AM »
Reading Bosk's (excellent) post, I'm sort of amending what I said before.   I thought both Gronk and JJSS were both more guilty of "after the whistle antics", but I sort of see both in the same light.   Gronk's emotions got the better of him, and he hit the guy, and JJSS's emotions got the better of him, and he taunted/celebrated his big hit.

I'm moving now to "Gronk: one game, JJSS: fine".  Or, if we insist on suspending JJSS, then "Gronk: two games, JJSS: one game". 

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2019 on: December 06, 2017, 09:02:27 AM »
You can say he lost his cool and also say it was dirty.  It's not exclusive.

I agree.

So why do we have sportswriters, TV personalities, and people on this forum saying that Gronk deserved more than JJSS? Didn't one of them call it insulting? I'm simply going by what I've seen and what I knew leading up to this. Other people are, as well, but it seems to me they're making more out of it than I am.

I think Gronk probably does deserve more than SS, but I'm just basing that on my read of both plays, not trying to make more of the Gronk thing in any way. I just feel like what he did deserves more discipline than what SS did, that's all. I'm not saying he should miss a ton of games or anything, but simply that, to me, his action was worse.

I'm not explaining it away. I think he fucked up and deserved his suspension. I'm also recognizing that from what I saw it looked like a spontaneous thing, much as he described.

Maybe "explaining it away" was a bad way to phrase it on my part. You and I agree on the Gronk play in a vacuum, I think. It seems like where we disagree is in the comparison. To me, SS's play was less of an offense. It was a good block that landed a little high in the middle of a quick developing play. He then stood over the guy. To me, that is less severe than what Gronk did, that's all I'm trying to say.

I don't know that anyone is "explaining it away."  Just explaining it.  Look, I can't stand Gronk for a variety of reasons.  And I'm no Patriots fan.  But I see a difference in the two plays for sure, and I see Gronk's as less severe.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for him.  There absolutely should.  I'm not about to argue otherwise.  But I do support what I believe is being said here, which is that while he needs to face the music for what he did, it's less severe than the other play we are talking about.  We draw this distinction all the time.

Let's take a murder case for example.  Killer A decides he has had it up to here with the guy down the street.  He spends the next week or so following the guy to discern his routine and figure out when would be the best time to strike.  He then researches and buys the weapon he thinks will be the most effective.  He plots and comes up with the perfect plan to get the deed done with maximum efficiency.  When the time is right, he strikes, and in cold blood, puts a bullet in the back of the guy's head, taking him out instantly.  Killer B is your average guy who does to work every day, loves his wife and kids more than anything, and does his best to follow the rules and never hurt anybody.  One day, he comes home early to surprise his wife with flowers and a ticket to that thing she loves, only to find her in bed with the guy down the street.  Killer B loses it, and in a fit of rage, picks up the Louisville Slugger he keeps by the bedside and beats both to the bloody pulp.  In the minute or so that it takes, they two suffer in excruciating pain, which only lingers and increases in the several minutes it takes before their lives slip away.  Killer B is horrified at what he did, and can't believe he just "snapped" like that.  Our criminal justice system typically makes a distinction between these two cases.  Both have severe consequences.  But the law recognizes that snapping in the heat of the moment is different than plotting and premeditating something and deliberately carrying it out in cold blood. 

Or let's bring it back to sports.  Basketball player A hates a player on the opposing team and wants to "teach him a lesson."  All game long, he finds a way to be close to that player and in his face.  He initiates a lot of contact throughout the game.  Then, when the time is right and he thinks the refs aren't looking and they are sort of tangled up and it will look like an accident, but the play is over and the other player is disengaging, Player A deliberately throws an elbow that catches the other player in the jaw.  Now on the other side, we have Player B, who basically follows the rules and plays clean.  The guy defending him has been playing dirty all night, doing cheap things and not getting called for it.  On one play in particular, Player B is going for an easy shot, and the defender doesn't even try for the ball, but just shoves Player B into the seats and then stands there laughing.  Player B snaps, and before he can think about it, jumps up and takes a swing.  Again, both plays are unacceptable.  Both have consequences.  But the heat-of-the-moment bad act after the play is over is much more understandable. 

I'm not saying Gronk is the guy in either of those scenarios.  But he is like the guy who just snapped and acted in the heat of the moment.  So, while I don't think anyone here is excusing what he did, I think people are just saying that it is understandable, and once he pays the piper for it, we should just move on.  And we shouldn't have much grief over it either.  He's stupid.  He lost his cool and his self control.  But, best I can tell, he isn't a thug who has a practice of trying to go outside the rules and hurt people.  So, yeah, to me, it's less egregious than a premeditated act.

Good post bosk, I agree with your overall point. But once again, why are we determining that the SS play was some sort of premeditated attack, that's the assumption I'm pushing back on. If you watch the play, it develops quick and SS throws a great block that happens to land high. There's nothing there that shows me it was premeditated at all.

He isn't a dirty player who has a history of issues, he threw a block that ten years ago, wouldn't have even gotten looked at.

Reading Bosk's (excellent) post, I'm sort of amending what I said before.   I thought both Gronk and JJSS were both more guilty of "after the whistle antics", but I sort of see both in the same light.   Gronk's emotions got the better of him, and he hit the guy, and JJSS's emotions got the better of him, and he taunted/celebrated his big hit.

I'm moving now to "Gronk: one game, JJSS: fine".  Or, if we insist on suspending JJSS, then "Gronk: two games, JJSS: one game". 

THIS. I agree Stads, and that's all I'm really trying to say (maybe I'm doing a bad job of it).

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2020 on: December 06, 2017, 09:09:44 AM »
Good post bosk, I agree with your overall point. But once again, why are we determining that the SS play was some sort of premeditated attack, that's the assumption I'm pushing back on.

That was poor wording on my part.  I'm not assuming the SS play was a premeditated attack.  The taunting afterward sure does make it look that way though.  But either way, my point wasn't to judge that play.  My point was to explain the explaining of the Gronk play.  That's where my focus was.  Sorry if I worded the other part of it poorly.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2021 on: December 06, 2017, 09:13:09 AM »
That was poor wording on my part.  I'm not assuming the SS play was a premeditated attack.  The taunting afterward sure does make it look that way though.  But either way, my point wasn't to judge that play.  My point was to explain the explaining of the Gronk play.  That's where my focus was.  Sorry if I worded the other part of it poorly.

I gotcha. I honestly think SS tried to throw a big block and thought he landed it - so he (very foolishly) stood over VB and celebrated. I think that was definitely a mistake, and while I understand where you are coming from, that doesn't necessarily mean it was something he pre-planned.

Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2022 on: December 06, 2017, 09:33:37 AM »
Losses suck, but there was a lot of good to take out of this one. So no 15-1. No biggie, still plenty to be excited for.
Bring on the Rams!

Oh, the Rams are coming.... :lol  Be careful what you wish for, big dawg! :yarr

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2023 on: December 06, 2017, 09:46:23 AM »
Losses suck, but there was a lot of good to take out of this one. So no 15-1. No biggie, still plenty to be excited for.
Bring on the Rams!

Oh, the Rams are coming.... :lol  Be careful what you wish for, big dawg! :yarr

I feel like with the Eagles, we're going to see that kind of post again:  "So no x-2.  No biggie...".   "So no NFC Championship Game.  No biggie..."   "So no Super Bowl.  No biggie..."   

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2024 on: December 06, 2017, 10:29:01 AM »
Sounds good to me.  Keep the tradition going.  :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2025 on: December 06, 2017, 10:36:29 AM »
Sounds good to me.  Keep the tradition going.  :lol

That sounds good to me, too.  But it largely depends on who they are facing.  My ranking of the current playoff-eligible teams goes something like:

Chiefs
Saints
Vikings
Jaguars
Titans
Steelers
Patriots
Falcons
Eagles
Ravens
Panthers
Rams
Seahawks

So, yeah, there are plenty of scenarios where I might root for them in particular playoff games and even the Super Bowl.  But by and large, I don't support them.
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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2026 on: December 06, 2017, 10:41:15 AM »
The 49ers game unsurprisingly wasn't broadcast here last week, so I didn't get to watch, but the more I read and see clips, the more excited I get about Jimmy G and what he can mean to the team.

The Athletic (paid service, so no point in link), had a great article (aside from others about his offensive abilities) on how much he helped the defense. Last few seasons the 49ers D has been one of, if not the most overworked. That game against the Bears... fewest plays in about 25 years by the defense.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2027 on: December 06, 2017, 11:00:06 AM »
Iloka doesn't get suspended at all for his shot to AB  :lol

https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine

Way to care about head shots NFL  :tup

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2028 on: December 06, 2017, 11:55:06 AM »
Iloka doesn't get suspended at all for his shot to AB  :lol

https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine

Way to care about head shots NFL  :tup

Well we already know the league is a joke. So hypocritical. How much you wanna bet the schedule a Steelers - Bengals primtime game next year? Ratings!

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: 2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty
« Reply #2029 on: December 06, 2017, 12:12:22 PM »
So, there's a fine line between ratings and concussion protocol.   :corn
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