A Song of Ice and Fire

[Dimitrius]

Yeah, it's hinted at, never confirmed. But when Tyrion meets with Oberyn before the trial by combat they talk about different poisons and bottles that the Red Viper has in his room and there's mention of one poison who liquidates your bowels/intestines and leaves you smelling horribly afterwards.

And how Tyrion finds Tywin and the smell at his wake are strong indications that Oberyn did indeed poison him.

[yorost]

Here, I found it:

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/67678-oberyn-poisoned-tywin/

Holy shit!!!

user: Twelve Angry Nonmen
title: WE CANNOT REMEMBER THE VERDICT

       

[cramx3]

Ahhh yes. I definitely remember the talk of the smelly bowels and recall the red viper showing jamie the poisons but never put that together. That's awesome. There's so many things like that which I never notice but I read about them on westeros.org

[Dimitrius]

Yeah, there's so many thing I didn't figured out until this second time around reading the books!

Also, all the foreshadowing and little hints that they dropped from the start of AGoT that Ned isn't gonna make it out alive and about the RW in ASoS.

[wasteland]

I remember reading about the poisoning when the theory first came out. I was immediately sold on it! I just love the foreshadowing in the books, especially when it's sapiently concealed. Like the poetic washed ashore dragon sequence in AFFC.

[TheVoxyn]

Just finished aFfC. I'm kinda tired of the series but I feel like I need to read aDwD as well, now that I am at it.

Ah, so you knew what happens to Tywin when you wrote that about him over in tv show's thread. That was because I thought you didn't know how close he was to getting offed.

Ah, I thought it was because my favourite character is one which all my friends claim is quite evil  .

[Cool Chris]

Ok, despite my earlier prediction, it did not take forever to read these books. they are just so damn unputdownable. Yes, I just made that word up exclusively for this series. No idea how to sum up my thoughts in one post. These books are just marvelous.

[Prog Snob]

Ok, despite my earlier prediction, it did not take forever to read these books. they are just so damn unputdownable. Yes, I just made that word up exclusively for this series. No idea how to sum up my thoughts in one post. These books are just marvelous.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unputdownable

[Jarlaxle]

I just read up on the R + L = J theory. Whoa. It all makes sense. Deep down I knew something was wrong with the story we were given, but I wouldn't have put that all together.

[ariich]

There are a whole bunch of different theories out there. Some very plausible, others seem a bit of a stretch. Definitely adds to all the mystery and intrigue though!

[cramx3]

True, but the R + L = J theory is easily the best and makes the most sense.  GRRM also stated that fans have already correctly theorized this, although I could totally seem him changing it now just to fuck with everyone.

Also, the publisher says WoW won't be out in 2015, but GRRM seemed to imply there was a chance for a 2015 release. I dont buy it and I wont get my hopes up.  We all know we will learn the ending of the story through the show albeit through a different story path.

[ariich]

True, but the R + L = J theory is easily the best and makes the most sense.  GRRM also stated that fans have already correctly theorized this,

Did he say that? I know he said regarding all the theories out there that some fans have got things spot on, but when he said that (this was a few months ago) he didn't specify or even hint at which theories he was talking about.

The ones that make the most sense, like R + L = J, are therefore most likely to be correct (now that we know at least some are correct) but I'm not aware of him confirming any specifics since then?

although I could totally seem him changing it now just to fuck with everyone.

Well, when he made the comments I just mentioned, he specifically said that he wouldn't change it, as then the story would make less sense.

[cramx3]

True, but the R + L = J theory is easily the best and makes the most sense.  GRRM also stated that fans have already correctly theorized this,

Did he say that? I know he said regarding all the theories out there that some fans have got things spot on, but when he said that (this was a few months ago) he didn't specify or even hint at which theories he was talking about.

The ones that make the most sense, like R + L = J, are therefore most likely to be correct (now that we know at least some are correct) but I'm not aware of him confirming any specifics since then?

although I could totally seem him changing it now just to fuck with everyone.

Well, when he made the comments I just mentioned, he specifically said that he wouldn't change it, as then the story would make less sense.

Sorry, I worded my original statement wrong.  He did not confirm R + L = J. He did confirm that people have correctly theorized about the ending and/or Jon's true heritage but not which theory.

[Evermind]

Sorry, I worded my original statement wrong.  He did not confirm R + L = J. He did confirm that people have correctly theorized about the ending and/or Jon's true heritage but not which theory.

Well, given how many random theories are there, that's not saying much. I agree R + L = J makes the most sense though.

[cramx3]

Sorry, I worded my original statement wrong.  He did not confirm R + L = J. He did confirm that people have correctly theorized about the ending and/or Jon's true heritage but not which theory.

Well, given how many random theories are there, that's not saying much. I agree R + L = J makes the most sense though.

You are right.

Also to note, GRRM's original notes about the books were released online and there is a huge spoiler in them although his notes about the overall story have changed very much from what was actually in the books, it still seems likely that this spoiler could be true:

He stated clearly that five characters would survive and they would be Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Bran, and Arya

[Prog Snob]

Sorry, I worded my original statement wrong.  He did not confirm R + L = J. He did confirm that people have correctly theorized about the ending and/or Jon's true heritage but not which theory.

Well, given how many random theories are there, that's not saying much. I agree R + L = J makes the most sense though.

You are right.

Also to note, GRRM's original notes about the books were released online and there is a huge spoiler in them although his notes about the overall story have changed very much from what was actually in the books, it still seems likely that this spoiler could be true:

He stated clearly that five characters would survive and they would be Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Bran, and Arya

I forgot about this thread.

I'm surprised it's that amount of characters surviving considering seven seems to be the recurring number theme.  Just a thought.

I am finally speeding my way through ADWD.  I should be finished with it next week sometime but right now am definitely safely ahead of whatever could happen in tomorrow's episode.

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, there are some crazy theories out there.

[BlackInk]

I stopped reading theories about a year ago. They're either wrong, and might disappoint you, or they're right, and then it won't surprise you.

[Prog Snob]

Wow, there are some crazy theories out there.

There are many theories out there. From the realistic and almost definite of R+L=J all the way to Varys is really Ned Stark. The intriguing part is that people know the books so well that even the less probably theories are backed up with a few facts. It's like saying a pepper is a fire engine because it's long and red. Well, there you have it. Two facts. It must be true.

[cramx3]

Wow, there are some crazy theories out there.

There are many theories out there. From the realistic and almost definite of R+L=J all the way to Varys is really Ned Stark. The intriguing part is that people know the books so well that even the less probably theories are backed up with a few facts. It's like saying a pepper is a fire engine because it's long and red. Well, there you have it. Two facts. It must be true.

Ser Pounce is the Prince that was Promised!!!

[masterthes]

He will save the Seven Kingdoms with one ferocious meow

[hefdaddy42]

I read one today on the "Edlritch Apocalypse".  Wow, that would be a significant change in tone for the series.

[Cool Chris]

Why did I click this thread hoping for an update on the next book?

[hefdaddy42]

Why did I click this thread hoping for an update on the next book?

Not sure.  It's George Martin, I wouldn't expect another update until this time next decade.

[Genowyn]

That newest Aeron chapter lends a lot of weight to the eldritch theory.

[cramx3]

That newest Aeron chapter lends a lot of weight to the eldritch theory.

I refuse to read these pre-release chapters, they will just make me want more.  I can't take such a tease.

[Jarlaxle]

A large part of me wants to read this Eldritch theory, but after reading the R+L=J theory and how it made me think it has to be true, I don't want any more "spoilers." But I agree with you cram, I will not read any of these chapters.

Assuming GRRM has at least half the book done, why doesn't the first half get released as a tide-me-over to catch up a bit to the show? When I travelled to New Zealand I noticeded all of the ASOIAF books were sold in parts, as opposed to 5 books.

[Prog Snob]

I read it.. very Lovecraftian. That's all I'll say.   

[cramx3]

A large part of me wants to read this Eldritch theory, but after reading the R+L=J theory and how it made me think it has to be true, I don't want any more "spoilers." But I agree with you cram, I will not read any of these chapters.

Assuming GRRM has at least half the book done, why doesn't the first half get released as a tide-me-over to catch up a bit to the show? When I travelled to New Zealand I noticeded all of the ASOIAF books were sold in parts, as opposed to 5 books.

But was the book finished before it was seperated?  I actually have two half books for Dance of Dragons, but I assume you wouldn't be able to do this without having the full books written, or at least written enough to break down.

[Kwyjibo]

I'm sure Martin doesn't write the books strictly chronological, so cutting it in half would be a problem with timelines. And we had something like that with Feast and Dance, leading to books which are missing whole character arcs.

Separation of books is done in some countries by the publisher, but only after the book is finished and released. For instance in Germany every book is separated in two parts, leading to ten books now, instead of five. Not sure if that's the reason, but with each of the ten books sold at a normal prize they can double their income.

[hefdaddy42]

I read it.. very Lovecraftian. That's all I'll say.   

Yep.  And there is some precedent, given some of the location names and histories given for some of the Far East places in The World of Ice & Fire.

[Prog Snob]

I read it.. very Lovecraftian. That's all I'll say.   

Yep.  And there is some precedent, given some of the location names and histories given for some of the Far East places in The World of Ice & Fire.

Yes. He has mentioned on more than one occasion that Lovecraft has influenced him greatly.

[hefdaddy42]

That would lead me to believe that there is a significant possibility for shit to get really fucked up.

[Evermind]

Separation of books is done in some countries by the publisher, but only after the book is finished and released. For instance in Germany every book is separated in two parts, leading to ten books now, instead of five. Not sure if that's the reason, but with each of the ten books sold at a normal prize they can double their income.

Sometimes it's also the convenience problem. I've got ASOS and ADWD in paperbacks split in halves and even then they're pretty massive books. I think the full ADWD paperback would be even bigger and inconvenient to read / carry around.

Curiously, when Brandon Sanderson (another fantasy writer) turned in his initial Words of Radiance script to the publisher (Tor Books), they said they can't print a book so large because the binding machine just won't allow so many pages. So there's that too.

[cramx3]

I'm sure Martin doesn't write the books strictly chronological, so cutting it in half would be a problem with timelines. And we had something like that with Feast and Dance, leading to books which are missing whole character arcs.

I understand that, but my point was more if the books aren't finished, then he may not have the exact direction of each character down to want to release half a book.  Might lead to inconsistencies if he isn't finished.