Author Topic: Trump's First 100 Days  (Read 51210 times)

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Offline antigoon

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2100 on: April 07, 2017, 08:16:21 AM »
To be clear, it bothered me a great deal when Obama didn't get congressional approval too. And every other president too.

Yeah. Actually, if you go back far enough in my posting history you can see me being pretty critical of Obama for it too. I have grown less... idealistic, i suppose, in the years since but I still think there should be some sort of discussion about whether the way it gets done now is actually good or beneficial.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2101 on: April 07, 2017, 08:31:05 AM »
Coz likes to type "But her emails!" and it's funny, but as political discourse, it's a zero.

The only thing it is intended to do is to point out what a fucking bullshit circus this all is.  There was a fucking sideshow clown with absolutely zero experience running for the Republicans and all any of them wanted to do was point at her emails and Benghazi and completely ignore that they'd made a caricature into a candidate.

But friend, that's a gross over simplification.   That's "Rolling Stone" level analysis (the political guy over there, Matt Taibbi, even wrote a book about the 'Clown Car' metaphor for the campaign).

It is just as politically accurate and intellectually sound to say:   "It's a bullshit circus.  There was a fucking elitist career politician with absolutely zero integrity and morals running for the Democrats and all any of them wanted to do was point at his alleged ties with Russia and make fun of his supporters as "deplorables" and completely ignore how out of touch and entitled their candidate was."   None of this is exclusive to Trump.  He didn't' just pop up out of a vacuum.  This has been brewing now for the better part of 15 years.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2102 on: April 07, 2017, 08:44:40 AM »
We're on again about the emails eh?

Syria - what do we think of the strikes? Seems like people agree that they do nothing to seriously weaken Assad - yet beltway types from all over are praising them. I'm not sure I get it. I don't think there's any real appetite for a prolonged conflict in Syria, but what happens when Assad does something outrageous again? More strikes? Something else? It's true that HRC was more outwardly hawkish on Syria but I can't say I trust this POTUS to competently conduct some prolonged conflict.

Here, it's a matter of opinion, but it does send a message.  To Putin (so much for Trump and Putin being lovers, eh?), to the North Koreans, to Americans, to China, to Assad (and yes, in that order).   It had to be done, frankly, otherwise the aforementioned would have to wonder when and if that would ever be an option.

Quote

Have we completely moved past congressional approval for new wars? I guess that ship sailed a while ago.

One, this isn't a war, two, Congressional approval is not required for this kind of action (Bush and Obama both did this), and three, Congressional approval IS required to deploy troops in anything more than a support action as part of peacetime activities (those are my words, not anything official).    I'm sure someone will point out the Trump tweet saying that Obama should have gotten Congressional approval (thus thinking they're playing chess by showing how "hypocritical" Trump is) but the fact remains, he didn't overstep his bounds here.

Quote
Also I worry that Trump is going to take the wrong message from the positive response he's getting from this and be encouraged to conduct more military action. We all know he loves praise.

Why worry about that, and say nothing about when it works in your favor?  I would think having Jared Kushner closer to the President than Steve Bannon would be a good thing, but apparently we're not allowed to say ANYTHING good about the President, lest we lose our what?  Our moral standing?  Our integrity?   Hell, Trump is even getting advise from Rahm Emanuel's brother.  That's like Alexander Hamilton asking for help from Aaron Burr.   That's like George Steinbrenner getting baseball advice from Carl Yastrzemski.   That's like Tom Cruise getting fashion advice from Katie Holmes.    That's like David Coverdale getting singing tips from Robert Plant.

I could do this all day. ;)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2103 on: April 07, 2017, 08:47:18 AM »
To be clear, it bothered me a great deal when Obama didn't get congressional approval too. And every other president too.

Yeah. Actually, if you go back far enough in my posting history you can see me being pretty critical of Obama for it too. I have grown less... idealistic, i suppose, in the years since but I still think there should be some sort of discussion about whether the way it gets done now is actually good or beneficial.

It's a fair question as to whether the laws should be changed to require it, but you have to understand that whether they should have - theoretically, morally - is different than whether they should have LEGALLY, and legally they did not have to get that approval. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2104 on: April 07, 2017, 09:00:24 AM »
Since we're citing double standards here, the republicans blasted the bejeezus out of Obama for taking this sort of action, Trump included. Either lobbing cruise missiles against somebody is valid without congressional approval or it's not, but honestly the right has been the side with the double standard problem. Dumbass was covered under his WoT trumps all policy.

Personally, I think this is perfectly valid. It's not a state of war. Moreover, while I think it's Trump waiving his dick around, and a little expensive getting how little it'll accomplish, I think it was a pretty reasonable response. It very slighlty limits Assad's ability to drop nerve gas on people, and it sends him a message that we're still around.

As it relates to Putin/Trump being butt-buddies, it doesn't. Either side has a strong case to make in their favor, but we just don't know and I doubt it effects the status quo at all.
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Offline chknptpie

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2105 on: April 07, 2017, 09:56:23 AM »

As for the tweets from Trump, it's certainly not the first and defintiely won't be the last time Trump's own tweets bite him in the ass.  He also campaigned on the idea of staying out of the Syrian civil war.  I think the re-use of chemical weapons changed his opinions.  It seemed he saw images of what happened and it changed his mind.  Seems in character for Trump to react quickly to things seen on the internet.

Why are images of things occurring in Syria now making an impact? I have been seeing images of the people of Syria for years in destroyed buildings or bleeding/injured. I don't understand why now things are different?

Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2106 on: April 07, 2017, 10:04:25 AM »

As for the tweets from Trump, it's certainly not the first and defintiely won't be the last time Trump's own tweets bite him in the ass.  He also campaigned on the idea of staying out of the Syrian civil war.  I think the re-use of chemical weapons changed his opinions.  It seemed he saw images of what happened and it changed his mind.  Seems in character for Trump to react quickly to things seen on the internet.

Why are images of things occurring in Syria now making an impact? I have been seeing images of the people of Syria for years in destroyed buildings or bleeding/injured. I don't understand why now things are different?

Well everything is a rash of jugdement in the moment by Trump.  That's the best answer I can give, but I do think it is possible that people change over time when their own lifes change.  It's easy for him to sling shots at the President from Trump tower as a citizen, just as it's easy for us to type out our opinions on this forum, but it's different when you are the person with the most power to make a difference.  Just a thought.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2107 on: April 07, 2017, 10:09:30 AM »
To be clear, it bothered me a great deal when Obama didn't get congressional approval too. And every other president too.

Yeah. Actually, if you go back far enough in my posting history you can see me being pretty critical of Obama for it too. I have grown less... idealistic, i suppose, in the years since but I still think there should be some sort of discussion about whether the way it gets done now is actually good or beneficial.

It's a fair question as to whether the laws should be changed to require it, but you have to understand that whether they should have - theoretically, morally - is different than whether they should have LEGALLY, and legally they did not have to get that approval. 

I'm not convinced it's as cut and dry as you're saying.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2108 on: April 07, 2017, 12:46:42 PM »


« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 12:53:15 PM by chknptpie »

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2109 on: April 11, 2017, 11:05:00 AM »
Looks like we might be getting into two wars. Hooray!

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Apr 11, 2017 07:03:43 AM - North Korea is looking for trouble. If China decides to help, that would be great. If not, we will solve the problem without them! U.S.A.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2110 on: April 11, 2017, 11:43:08 AM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2111 on: April 11, 2017, 11:47:08 AM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2112 on: April 11, 2017, 11:47:53 AM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. We would have to attack from the air. North Korea has way too many foot soldiers for us to send in boots. It'd be a bloodbath on both side. I've read about really intricate tunnel systems under North Korea that'd make finding Kim really difficult on both on foot and with predator drones. I actually think killing him wouldn't be that difficult. The mess that it'll leave behind is why everyone is hesitant, and rightfully so.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2113 on: April 11, 2017, 11:55:30 AM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.

You do realize Kim has been killing his own family members and anyone that speaks against him?  Anyone who has managed to escape says they want him dead. It seems very likely that once he is gone, the people of the country will be much better.  I would suggest to watch a documentary on North Korea if you have not because it's really fascinating (in a bad way) how the country is brainwashed.

I also only said part of me wishes that because the other part knows assassination is not what the USA should be doing.

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2114 on: April 11, 2017, 11:57:32 AM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.

You do realize Kim has been killing his own family members and anyone that speaks against him?  Anyone who has managed to escape says they want him dead. It seems very likely that once he is gone, the people of the country will be much better.  I would suggest to watch a documentary on North Korea if you have not because it's really fascinating (in a bad way) how the country is brainwashed.

I also only said part of me wishes that because the other part knows assassination is not what the USA should be doing.

Any documentary in particular? I started watching one on Netflix the other night that was absolutely fantastic, but I fell asleep about 30 minutes in. I can't wait to finish.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2115 on: April 11, 2017, 11:57:38 AM »
Well, so much for America first I guess  >:(
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2116 on: April 11, 2017, 12:00:03 PM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.

You do realize Kim has been killing his own family members and anyone that speaks against him?  Anyone who has managed to escape says they want him dead. It seems very likely that once he is gone, the people of the country will be much better.  I would suggest to watch a documentary on North Korea if you have not because it's really fascinating (in a bad way) how the country is brainwashed.

I also only said part of me wishes that because the other part knows assassination is not what the USA should be doing.

Oh I'm well aware. I still stand by my comment. Will some people be happy? Sure. Will it have a good positive result? Very doubtful.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2117 on: April 11, 2017, 12:07:44 PM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.

You do realize Kim has been killing his own family members and anyone that speaks against him?  Anyone who has managed to escape says they want him dead. It seems very likely that once he is gone, the people of the country will be much better.  I would suggest to watch a documentary on North Korea if you have not because it's really fascinating (in a bad way) how the country is brainwashed.

I also only said part of me wishes that because the other part knows assassination is not what the USA should be doing.

Any documentary in particular? I started watching one on Netflix the other night that was absolutely fantastic, but I fell asleep about 30 minutes in. I can't wait to finish.

Can't recall a name, but I've watched a few on netflix when I had netflix some years ago.  But I also saw a post on imgur recently that was amazing.  http://imgur.com/gallery/21eQj Just pictures and some commentary from the dude who took a vacation there.  What struck me so much about this country is that it mostly seems their leader is the only asshole.  The Korean people seem like they just want to live a peaceful life like anyone else, but are stuck in a country that sucks the life out of them to support a military made up on propaganda against the US and they have little to no actual knowledge of the outside world.  It isn't until people escape the country that they realize just how bad North Korea is. 

While I don't like at all the way the leader runs that country, it's not actionable to me until they threaten our way of life. To me, I wouldn't attack them for that.... but if Kim wants to keep threatening nukes and some of the recent deflectors are saying it's not a joke, then I'd rather not wait until he does so.  But I also don't believe he has the ability to do so yet, it's only a matter of time before this does blow up, some way or another.

And Adami, we will just agree to disagree then.  I think there would definitely be some destabilization, but I 100% believe North Korea would be better off without Kim.

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2118 on: April 11, 2017, 12:11:19 PM »
Agreed. The day Kim actually attempts to hit the US with a cruise missile, anything goes. Until then though, we need to keep our cool.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2119 on: April 11, 2017, 12:17:50 PM »
Never thought I would see this phrase: "My North Korea Holiday Photos". Was the Tehran Disneyland not an option? Four Season Nigeria booked up?

America needs to stop fucking around in these shitholes. What the hell else is the civilized world doing? Does the UN still exist for any discernible reason? Chino is right.... you attack us, you are gone from the map. If you don't, Let's fix our own problems.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2120 on: April 11, 2017, 12:29:55 PM »
Part of me wishes that the recent meeting between Xi and Trump lead to an agreement to assassinate Kim.  I've seen some articles lately that suggest assassination is on the table.

What would that do? I haven't seen anything to suggest that whoever takes over next would be any better.

Also, taking out the leader of a country rarely makes that country more friendly toward those people who killed their leader.

Lots of Americans don't like Trump. If Russia or someone else came in and assassinated Trump, we wouldn't suddenly be their best friends.
Military dictatorships are rarely civilized, but they're almost always stable. This is one of the rare instances where one would be better for everybody involved. Frankly, his own military is going to bump him off at some point anyway. If we can wait for that, dandy. If not, I'm not convinced they wouldn't be pleased to see him gibletted.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2121 on: April 11, 2017, 12:32:55 PM »
And what would a military dictator change? If he keeps the status quo, he has an entire brainwashed country to worship him.

Why would this new dictator give all of that up for the sake of freedom and kindness?

North Korea cannot sustain itself as a free country. It would fall apart in a minute and be either incorporated into China or South Korea. I doubt any future leader would want that, and would thus likely keep things as close to as they as possible in order to maintain the country's existence.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2122 on: April 11, 2017, 12:48:01 PM »
A military leader can be counted on to behave rationally. Jong-Un can not. And sadly, we can't give them freedom and kindness. As much as we might wish to try, the results are invariably contrary. Some day they might demand it for themselves, but if we try to expedite it things will only go to shit for them. Hell, you're a Star Trek guy. You know these things.  :lol

Also, the North Koreans are very likely nowhere near as brainwashed as people here think. They play ball because it's required, but they know the score. The brainwashing ended once it became impossible to keep information out.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2123 on: April 11, 2017, 12:50:31 PM »
A military leader can be counted on to behave rationally. Jong-Un can not. And sadly, we can't give them freedom and kindness. As much as we might wish to try, the results are invariably contrary. Some day they might demand it for themselves, but if we try to expedite it things will only go to shit for them. Hell, you're a Star Trek guy. You know these things.  :lol

Also, the North Koreans are very likely nowhere near as brainwashed as people here think. They play ball because it's required, but they know the score. The brainwashing ended once it became impossible to keep information out.

I think we're agreeing. My main point was that going in and taking out their leader wasn't going to result in much change. They're not going to suddenly embrace us and our ideals if we kill their leader. A natural coupe or whatever is fine.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2124 on: April 11, 2017, 01:50:25 PM »
A military leader can be counted on to behave rationally. Jong-Un can not. And sadly, we can't give them freedom and kindness. As much as we might wish to try, the results are invariably contrary. Some day they might demand it for themselves, but if we try to expedite it things will only go to shit for them. Hell, you're a Star Trek guy. You know these things.  :lol

Also, the North Koreans are very likely nowhere near as brainwashed as people here think. They play ball because it's required, but they know the score. The brainwashing ended once it became impossible to keep information out.

I think we're agreeing. My main point was that going in and taking out their leader wasn't going to result in much change. They're not going to suddenly embrace us and our ideals if we kill their leader. A natural coupe or whatever is fine.
It won't change for the North Koreans. It might buy them time, though. The current situation is increasingly untenable, and one thing military dictatorships tend to enforce is stability.
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Offline chknptpie

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2125 on: April 11, 2017, 02:33:27 PM »

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2126 on: April 11, 2017, 02:41:04 PM »

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2127 on: April 11, 2017, 03:05:31 PM »
I was going to say......I wonder how SNL will handle this, but then I realize that it's not actually easy to mock something THAT dumb.

It reminds me of that episode of 30 Rock where they couldn't mock the politician, so they just literally repeated what he said word for word, which worked because of how dumb the guy was.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2128 on: April 11, 2017, 05:20:32 PM »
So, honest question:

What has trump actually achieved in his first 100 days?

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2129 on: April 11, 2017, 05:29:14 PM »
So, honest question:

What has trump actually achieved in his first 100 days?

Marvelous stuff. Believe me.








Honestly though, I really haven't kept up with it, and I'm sure Stadler can give you a pretty big list of his achievements, but from what I've seen........jobs? Seems like he's done stuff to make jobs, though I've also heard that most of them were deals under Obama.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2130 on: April 11, 2017, 05:57:38 PM »
So, honest question:

What has trump actually achieved in his first 100 days?

Played golf 16 more times than Obama did in his first 200 days.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2131 on: April 11, 2017, 06:25:53 PM »
Honestly though, I really haven't kept up with it, and I'm sure Stadler can give you a pretty big list of his achievements, but from what I've seen........jobs? Seems like he's done stuff to make jobs, though I've also heard that most of them were deals under Obama.

American manufacturers only added 98k jobs last month. Approximately half of what was expected. So, no he hasn't really achieved that, either.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2132 on: April 11, 2017, 06:41:35 PM »
So, honest question:

What has trump actually achieved in his first 100 days?

He's achieved exactly why i voted for him. Installing A SCOTUS Judge that wasn't appointed by Hilary Clinton. And I'm not going to waste too much time as I'm well aware of the temperature of the water in the P/R subforum.... but attempting to list and discuss any of Trumps accomplishments this far with any of the 'regular' liberal/democrat posters in P/R is such a futile effort that falls on deaf ears given the amount of distain that is felt towards the man. What I'd classify as an accomplishment would be deemed completely different by the majority here and judging from the standing opinions and documented arguments any suggestion of an accomplishment would be met with condescension and immediate dismissal no matter how well presented.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2133 on: April 11, 2017, 07:05:48 PM »
Horseshit.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2134 on: April 12, 2017, 01:50:33 AM »
You have to realise that with Kim Un, you're dealing with a real grade A psycho here. As soon as a real move is made, he'd nuke the hell out  of the West.
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