Author Topic: Trump's First 100 Days  (Read 36679 times)

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Trump's First 100 Days
« on: January 25, 2017, 12:34:44 PM »
A lot has been said about how Trump has wanted to take significant action in his first 100 days in office.  Since a lot of this discussion was taking place in threads not specific about Trump's political moves I figured a thread specific to this topic would make sense.

It seems this week he has been very busy starting to execute the things he said he would on the campaign trail.

Let's discuss civilly...

Here is one article http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-tells-abc-news-david-muir-construction/story?id=45007943  so it appears the construction of the wall will start soonish. 

I'm honestly surprised.  I thought this would be one of his campaign promises that wouldn't come to fruition.  I've also never been a big supporter of the wall.  I like a more controlled border, but never thought a wall fixes that, just creates another obstacle (that I feel will be overcome easily).  He is still saying Mexico will pay, so I am very interested in how that will work.  For me, it's hard to complain if we got the wall for free, although I don't believe anything is truly for free.

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2017, 12:36:36 PM »
I'd be interested in seeing how far they get on the wall, since as it stands, America is actually paying for the whole thing, with Trump promising that Mexico will pay them back, and Mexico saying "lol no".
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2017, 12:38:13 PM »
I'm not surprised. The Wall, in whatever shape it ultimately takes, is one of the real tangible promises he made. He cannot go back on that.

As far as Mexico paying, they will not be writing a check per se, but perhaps a renegotiating of NAFTA may free up funds in the US' favor that could pay for it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2017, 12:48:31 PM »
The Wall, in whatever shape it ultimately takes, is one of the real tangible promises he made. He cannot go back on that.

I would have thought so too, but Presidents of the past have not lived up to the campaign hopes and dreams.  I thought this would be one of them just because its a HUGE effort and very costly.  If in the end America does pay and we don't see any better border protection, that would be a huge stain on his presidency IMO (although I'm sure he will have many with his mouth alone).

Offline jsbru

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2017, 12:52:46 PM »
I sort of doubt there's much hidden value in NAFTA anyway.  If there is, Trump certainly hasn't studied it enough, nor does he have the economic background to figure out if there is.  I think his promise to renegotiate is little more than campaign trail bloviation.

Also, the wall isn't going to stop much illegal immigration.  Net migration to our country from Mexico these days is pretty close to zero, and much of the people that do come here have much better ways to get in beyond trekking through the desert.  More campaign trail bloviation that won't do this country any good.  Except this one is going to cause us to waste a ton of money.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2017, 01:03:01 PM »
My main concern with his actions so far are with his muting of departments and employees with regards to climate science.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2017, 01:09:46 PM »
Seconded XJ. Also, I find it concerning that he's trying to start a huge investigation on voter fraud. Either that's going to be a huge waste of money when he finds next to nothing, or he has ulterior motives.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2017, 01:18:38 PM »
Seconded XJ. Also, I find it concerning that he's trying to start a huge investigation on voter fraud. Either that's going to be a huge waste of money when he finds next to nothing, or he has ulterior motives.

He won, I don't understand his focus on this, unless it turns out to be a serious problem.  I'm not so sure that's the case though.  To me, this is his ego getting in the way. 

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2017, 01:26:27 PM »
My main concern with his actions so far are with his muting of departments and employees with regards to climate science.
Was coming to post this.

As for the voter fraud "investigation", the announcement from the President in the form of a Tweet (yes, this is the world we live in now, if there is a more in depth statement on it please let me know  :lol) is this:

"I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal and... even, those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time). Depending on results, we will strengthen up voting procedures!"

Emphasis mine, I believe if an "investigation" was to actually happen (which I doubt) that would be the real motivation. The opaque administration conducts some sort of "investigation", we'll hear something about "you won't believe how much voter fraud there was, believe me", and then they use it as a basis to push for tighter and tighter voter restriction laws.

My guess is there won't actually be any action on this, and it is just one of those statements from Trump to make himself feel better about the popular vote (even Paul Ryan, and I think Mike Pence, have  explicitly denied the baseless claims about widespread voter fraud). In terms of what he actually Tweeted about, being registered in two states isn't illegal as long as you don't vote in two states. Lots of people are registered in two states - including Trump's strategist Steve Bannon, and his own daughter Tiffany Trump.

One last potentially interesting point on the VOTER FRAUD investigations - Trump's own lawyers claimed in court that there was no evidence of significant voter fraud, as part of their argument for not going ahead with major recounts in Michigan. If there was reason to suspect widespread voter fraud then those recounts should go ahead? Or shouldn't the results of the election be considered invalid, if it genuinely is as bad as Trump would have us believe with millions of fraudulent votes?

Since Trump won this election, there's only two reasons I can see to go out of his way to undermine the credibility of the election process; to massage his own ego about the fact he didn't win the popular vote (which clearly bothers him), or to undermine credibility of future elections. My guess would be that for Donald himself it's about the former, for the men behind the throne it's the latter.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:52:31 PM by RuRoRul »

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2017, 01:32:23 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2017, 01:33:36 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
Why would he feel that?

Oh yeah, because it makes him feel better about losing the popular vote.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2017, 01:35:59 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
Why would he feel that?

Oh yeah, because it makes him feel better about losing the popular vote.

Or because it does happen.  The difference is on what scale does it happen, it's most likely a very small scale and not significant enough to change elections. But yes, his ego is the driving factor IMO for an investigation (if there is one).

Offline XJDenton

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2017, 01:36:19 PM »
Quote
Hannah Arendt in her book The Origin of Totalitarianism provides a helpful guide for interpreting the language of fascists. She noted how decent liberals of 1930s Germany would "fact check" the Nazis' bizarre claims about Jews like they were meant to be factual. What they failed to understand, Arendt suggests, is that the Nazi Jew hating was not a statement of fact but a declaration of intent. So when someone would blame the Jews for Germany's defeat in WW1 naive people would counter by saying there's no evidence of that. What the Nazis were doing was not describing what was true, but what would have to be true to justify what they planned to do next. Did 3 million "illegals" cast votes in this election? Clearly not. But fact checking is just a way of playing along with their game. What Trump is saying is not that 3m illegals voted. What he's saying is: I'm going to steal the voting rights of millions of Americans.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2017, 01:40:03 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
Why would he feel that?

Oh yeah, because it makes him feel better about losing the popular vote.

Maybe. But maybe he believes it was happening. I mean, at this point, I'm not sure why this is even a story. Let him investigate. Why is it an issue?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2017, 01:47:54 PM »
If he gave a shit about the democratic process he wouldn't have scoffed at intelligence reports that suggested problems. Legitimate concerns are merely a smear campaign against him. Stuff he pulls out of his ass deserve investigations. As demonstrated over and over, he's only concerned about things that effect him negatively. Right or wrong is completely inconsequential. Comes with having the emotional temperament of a 7 year old.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2017, 01:49:01 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
Why would he feel that?

Oh yeah, because it makes him feel better about losing the popular vote.

Maybe. But maybe he believes it was happening. I mean, at this point, I'm not sure why this is even a story. Let him investigate. Why is it an issue?

I'm with you on that one TAC, well said. If his administration wants to investigate voter fraud, they can go ahead and do it. There's a lot of things happening that seem to be more important. This move by Trump and his team doesn't bother me greatly.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2017, 01:51:21 PM »
Quote
Hannah Arendt in her book The Origin of Totalitarianism provides a helpful guide for interpreting the language of fascists. She noted how decent liberals of 1930s Germany would "fact check" the Nazis' bizarre claims about Jews like they were meant to be factual. What they failed to understand, Arendt suggests, is that the Nazi Jew hating was not a statement of fact but a declaration of intent. So when someone would blame the Jews for Germany's defeat in WW1 naive people would counter by saying there's no evidence of that. What the Nazis were doing was not describing what was true, but what would have to be true to justify what they planned to do next. Did 3 million "illegals" cast votes in this election? Clearly not. But fact checking is just a way of playing along with their game. What Trump is saying is not that 3m illegals voted. What he's saying is: I'm going to steal the voting rights of millions of Americans.

-Elliott Lusztig
:clap:

Anyway, at this point the VOTER FRAUD investigation really is just all talk with nothing substantial to discuss. Genuine evidence-based investigation or study into the existence of voter fraud would be welcome. My previous post contains my thoughts on this particular Tweet statement.

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2017, 01:53:12 PM »
But what if he feels that there was voter fraud?
Why would he feel that?

Oh yeah, because it makes him feel better about losing the popular vote.

Maybe. But maybe he believes it was happening. I mean, at this point, I'm not sure why this is even a story. Let him investigate. Why is it an issue?

He also railed against a look into voter fraud into states that he won. That says a lot.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2017, 01:55:25 PM »
Is that right?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2017, 01:57:36 PM »
Quote
Hannah Arendt in her book The Origin of Totalitarianism provides a helpful guide for interpreting the language of fascists. She noted how decent liberals of 1930s Germany would "fact check" the Nazis' bizarre claims about Jews like they were meant to be factual. What they failed to understand, Arendt suggests, is that the Nazi Jew hating was not a statement of fact but a declaration of intent. So when someone would blame the Jews for Germany's defeat in WW1 naive people would counter by saying there's no evidence of that. What the Nazis were doing was not describing what was true, but what would have to be true to justify what they planned to do next. Did 3 million "illegals" cast votes in this election? Clearly not. But fact checking is just a way of playing along with their game. What Trump is saying is not that 3m illegals voted. What he's saying is: I'm going to steal the voting rights of millions of Americans.

-Elliott Lusztig
:clap:

Anyway, at this point the VOTER FRAUD investigation really is just all talk with nothing substantial to discuss. Genuine evidence-based investigation or study into the existence of voter fraud would be welcome. My previous post contains my thoughts on this particular Tweet statement.

Catch me up, cause I guess I'm a little slow... So now we are saying that Trump's administration investigating voter fraud somehow makes Trump the next Hitler who is trying to take away voting rights from Americans...?

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2017, 01:58:23 PM »
Is that right?

Yup. When Jill Stein wanted to look into voting problems in states that Trump won, he got super pissed about it.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2017, 02:00:53 PM »
Trump's own lawyers claimed in court that there was no evidence of significant voter fraud, as part of their argument for not going ahead with major recounts in Michigan.



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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2017, 02:03:28 PM »
If he gave a shit about the democratic process he wouldn't have scoffed at intelligence reports that suggested problems. Legitimate concerns are merely a smear campaign against him. Stuff he pulls out of his ass deserve investigations. As demonstrated over and over, he's only concerned about things that effect him negatively. Right or wrong is completely inconsequential. Comes with having the emotional temperament of a 7 year old.

Can't argue with that.

Is that right?

Yup. When Jill Stein wanted to look into voting problems in states that Trump won, he got super pissed about it.

OK. Thanks.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2017, 02:11:52 PM »
In reading this article, it mentions a lot of what you guys are saying.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seeks-%e2%80%98major-investigation%e2%80%99-into-unsupported-claims-of-voter-fraud/ar-AAmejnl?li=BBnb7Kz

I have a question though. In the article there is this paragraph:
“Republicans in statehouses across America have passed restrictive laws that impair the ability of legitimate voters to participate, and they use the myth of voter fraud to justify their abuses,” Cummings said in a statement.

What is an example of a restrictive law that impairs one's ability to vote?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2017, 02:39:32 PM »
In reading this article, it mentions a lot of what you guys are saying.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-seeks-%e2%80%98major-investigation%e2%80%99-into-unsupported-claims-of-voter-fraud/ar-AAmejnl?li=BBnb7Kz

I have a question though. In the article there is this paragraph:
“Republicans in statehouses across America have passed restrictive laws that impair the ability of legitimate voters to participate, and they use the myth of voter fraud to justify their abuses,” Cummings said in a statement.

What is an example of a restrictive law that impairs one's ability to vote?
Voter ID requirements. Statistically speaking, the poor and minorities are going to be slightly less likely to possess a license or passport. They're also going to be more likely to vote democrat.

Truth be told, in-person voter fraud is trivial, at best. It's the larger scale instances that are problematic. A great example is people canvassing the neighborhoods to register people to vote, and then throwing the registrations of people unlikely to vote for their candidate in the nearest river.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2017, 02:51:21 PM »


What is an example of a restrictive law that impairs one's ability to vote?
Voter ID requirements. Statistically speaking, the poor and minorities are going to be slightly less likely to possess a license or passport. 

But if you want to vote, shouldn't you be able to prove who you say you are?

I can see the Republicans not wanting the Democrats to put 50 homeless guys on a bus and bring them to a voting facility, but is it really too much to ask that if you want to vote, you have some sort of legal identification.

I'm not looking at this politically because I don't care who wins, but I'm trying to look at it with some common sense. Unless I'm missing something.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2017, 02:56:34 PM »
I agree with that to a point, but there are a lot of shenanigans going on. For instance, I read that in a certain state (I forgot which it was) the Republican legislature pushed to enforce that a gun license was legitimate ID to vote, but a student's ID was not because of the vote breakdown between the two groups. And I wouldn't be surprised if you had reverse efforts in Democratically-dominated states, though I haven't read of any examples of that specifically.

Coming from a country where having ID is mandatory, I always found it rather weird that that's not the case in the US. I'd probably be in favour of a system where you have to have some form of ID, but I often see complaints about that when an election is immanent, which seems like changing the rules just before the end of the game. If there is a push toward needing ID to vote, it should be done directly after an election to give everyone a chance to adjust to the new laws in time before the next election.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2017, 03:05:32 PM »
Yeah, Voter ID laws were something I think I might have first became aware of seeing them discussed on here many years ago... one of those things that seem like common sense to me, and if done in conjunction with making sure that there is a valid ID that is free and easy to obtain for voting, it would be great. But it seems as though they are often implemented as a way to strategically suppress voting from groups that would vote against whoever is in charge.

Here's an example I recall of one of these laws in North Carolina: Supreme Court won't let North Carolina use strict voting law. Since this was struck down by the Supreme Court this is probably a good example of the type of Voter ID laws that you wouldn't want to see, rather than a fair and sensible one.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2017, 03:06:00 PM »
It seems the Airlines might end up having an influence on ID in the US as many states Driver License will not be good enough proof of ID to fly soon.  I haven't researched this, but I believe it's states that give out license to pretty much anyone that TSA is saying those IDs are not good enough proof to fly.  It's leading states to change their ID laws so you don't need a passport to fly domestically.  It may have an impact indirectly to proof of ID for voting in some states.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2017, 03:10:58 PM »
That airline thing isn't new; that's been floating in the water now for the better part of five years.  Most states are now up to snuff but there's still about five or so that aren't.


As for IDs, there was a great video of an on the street interview where the guy was asking black people on the street about IDs and voting places, and they pretty much shot holes in the notion that "minorities and poor are disadvantaged".   It wasn't scientific, and I'm sure we could poke holes in it all day long, but it's still anecdotal evidence.

I have no problem in being required to show WHO you are.   It's not spoof proof - as most of my drinking from the age of 17 to 21 is proof of - but there are compromises all the time if the state has a compelling interest, and the integrity of our elections is likely sufficient for that.

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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2017, 03:14:34 PM »


What is an example of a restrictive law that impairs one's ability to vote?
Voter ID requirements. Statistically speaking, the poor and minorities are going to be slightly less likely to possess a license or passport. 

But if you want to vote, shouldn't you be able to prove who you say you are?

I can see the Republicans not wanting the Democrats to put 50 homeless guys on a bus and bring them to a voting facility, but is it really too much to ask that if you want to vote, you have some sort of legal identification.

I'm not looking at this politically because I don't care who wins, but I'm trying to look at it with some common sense. Unless I'm missing something.
Of course. The polling places have a role book of people in the district and they're checked off as the person votes. In the past anything that had your name and address was acceptable. You take your water bill (you're old enough to remember when that was ID), they check your name, into the booth you go. The only fraud is if somebody voted instead of you. In those cases you vote a contested ballot and it's sorted out later. Worked just fine for 100+ years.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2017, 03:17:05 PM »
I agree with that to a point, but there are a lot of shenanigans going on. For instance, I read that in a certain state (I forgot which it was) the Republican legislature pushed to enforce that a gun license was legitimate ID to vote, but a student's ID was not because of the vote breakdown between the two groups. And I wouldn't be surprised if you had reverse efforts in Democratically-dominated states, though I haven't read of any examples of that specifically.

Coming from a country where having ID is mandatory, I always found it rather weird that that's not the case in the US. I'd probably be in favour of a system where you have to have some form of ID, but I often see complaints about that when an election is immanent, which seems like changing the rules just before the end of the game. If there is a push toward needing ID to vote, it should be done directly after an election to give everyone a chance to adjust to the new laws in time before the next election.
Americans have traditionally been resistant (the right, ironically) of having national IDs. As a rule The Man doesn't need to know who you are unless you have business with him. Paying taxes, for example. States don't require them, presumably for the same reason. It's just that there are plenty of things you can't do without one. Flying, for example.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2017, 03:21:18 PM »
I have no problem in being required to show WHO you are.   It's not spoof proof - as most of my drinking from the age of 17 to 21 is proof of - but there are compromises all the time if the state has a compelling interest, and the integrity of our elections is likely sufficient for that.
I believe we're going to run into a compelling state interest problem here. As long as the polling stations know who's allowed to vote, and that still is the case I believe, then there's no problem with too many people voting. Only one vote per registered voter, name and address, is accepted. Did you need ID the first day of 5th grade when your teacher called role? Since there is the potential for hardship, you're going to need a legitimate reason for the requirement, and the reason at the moment is pretty damned squirrelly.
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2017, 03:26:24 PM »


Here's an example I recall of one of these laws in North Carolina:

This paragraph stood out to me:
For instance, the law allowed the use of photo IDs, such as driver’s licenses and passports, held disproportionately by whites, but not photo IDs issued by colleges or state assistance programs, which blacks were more likely to possess

OK,  I can see that.

But honestly, I feel like if you want to vote, then get the necessary paperwork done. You have 4 years to do so.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Trump's First 100 Days
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2017, 03:59:46 PM »
Seconded XJ. Also, I find it concerning that he's trying to start a huge investigation on voter fraud. Either that's going to be a huge waste of money when he finds next to nothing, or he has ulterior motives.

Both this and The Wall are absolute wastes of money entirely for Trump's own vanity.

Welcome to government by emotion.  Twisted, messed-up, pathological emotion.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson