Author Topic: Women's March  (Read 5724 times)

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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2017, 01:26:43 PM »
Of course.  When I respond to someone about their posting, it is only because they have posted something that is a problem.  The rules apply to everyone.  And the vast majority of what I have seen you post is fine, Harmony.  I only speak up when I need to.

Or when the wife allows you to.  *Women power*

I was happy to see a nice peaceful march in many cities.  That's how you bring attention to the forefront.  You girls rule.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2017, 01:33:51 PM »
I've been pretty much staying out of this conversation, just reading.  But I wanted to add to what King just said because I was thinking about it the last couple days.

The march was pretty peaceful from my understanding.  They didn't block highways, hurt people, break into buildings.  Just a peaceful gathering.

That is such a better way to get your point across than the opposite that we've seen a lot lately. 

Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2017, 01:34:02 PM »
Back to a prior topic.  What I want to know is why everything DJT says is automatically true (for some people, at least), except when he is only "talking macho BS" when bragging about sexually assaulting multiple women.  Then, suddenly, he's lying and exaggerating.

Whereas on the campaign trail, he would never, ever lie or exaggerate.  ;)
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2017, 01:39:32 PM »
I know other people (some post here) that only engage in relationships where they are free to pursue partners as their sex drive dictates.  You are laying your morals on someone else.

But if they both agree to this kind of relationship in the first place, than nobody's really breaking any promises, are they?  IMO, that's perfectly fine.

That's different from being in a relationship that both people understand to be monogamous, and then someone cheats behind the other's back.  Without getting into moral judgments, I simply wanted to make the point that this involves breaking a pretty major promise.  To the point where adultery is still technically a crime in almost all states (although it generally doesn't rise to the level of felony).

No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #109 on: January 24, 2017, 02:00:21 PM »
No, that isn't what "respect" means to me.  Hardly.  You may have forgotten some past exchanges we've had on this board.  But trust me, I have not.  Especially when this is more of the same here.

We can completely agree to disagree.  I'm fine with that.  Just don't couch it in flowery language, blow smoke up my skirt, and tell me about how much you respect me.  You have done almost nothing but negate my feelings and the feelings of many who marched (not that I shall speak for them) - you won't find any homogeneity among 2.8 million humans of that you can be sure.  More on that later.

And as for taking "great pains to affirm my beliefs" I don't need your "great pains".  When the premise of the discussion boils down to a "yes, but" then that is not an affirmation.

I haven't forgotten either; and if memory serves (it does, trust me) it was more of the same.  Any response other than "Yes, Harmony, you're right Harmony, and I agree 100% Harmony" is not acceptable.   Life is all about "yes, but's" because life isn't neat and clean, black and white.  The "yes" is very much an affirmation.  The "but" doesn't negate that, it adds to it, or compliments it.  That's all.  I don't know what is more affirmative than "yes, you're my equal, and yes your opinion matters", which is a very large part of what I said to you.  It's actually a form of respect to say "but, I read your point, understand it, and have taken the time to digest it, and here's something to think about."    EVERYONE has something to learn.  NONE of us have it all sussed out 100%.  Not you, not me, not Trump. 

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First, why bring up Hillary here?  She didn't plan or organize the march.  I'm not exactly sure about this but I don't believe she even attended the march at all.  Are you assuming that all of the women who marched last Saturday voted for Hillary?  If so, I would caution you against that belief.  I marched with a group of about 20 friends and family members.  I'd wager less than half voted for her.

The point about Hillary was simple:  A vote for Trump wasn't NECESSARILY a vote against women.   There are plenty of people - I'm included here - that feel we are WELL past the point at which a woman should lead our country.   All things being equal, I could have voted for her.  But - and here's the point about "priorities" - it wasn't as important to pass a milestone as it was to have someone else in office that could keep us - economically - in a position to keep pursuing the rights that we all hold dear. 

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You mention "lies and subterfuge" and indicate that 2.8 million women (and men) see Trump as the "only one" to blame.  I find this laughable.  You aren't paying attention.  Trump may have been on the minds of many marchers but he is by FAR not the "only one".  He just happens to be current lightening rod, for lack of a better phrase.  And so far, I'm not seeing anything in his behavior to indicate that will change any time soon.

No, no, the "lying and subterfuge" wasn't YOU, it was the organizers.  Why did they tell the woman in that op-ed that it was "about women" and "bipartisan" when it was ACTUALLY about "anti-Trump", the very definition of "partisan"?  Why was she - a feminist who, like me and millions of others, believe it is an important issue but not one to crash the economy over - made to feel unwelcome?  You CLEARLY know what that feels like (I say in a non-sarcastic way) so why is it okay that SHE was made to feel that way?

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As to "lies and subterfuge" those are very loaded words.  You want to back those up?  Who is lying?  Did you even read anything from the link I posted?

I most certainly did.  That was one site, one PAGE, and there were over fifty organizations that went into organizing that march, none of whom were represented on that page.   Your site was informative, relevant, but not, in my opinion the complete picture.  There is, for example, no mention of George Soros, the primary bankroller of that march, anywhere on there.  He is about as far from "bipartisan" as you can find, and is about as interested in "bipartisan debate about the issues of women" as he is Dream Theater's latest album.  He is possibly even someone you would abhor, as he uses his money to bully his opinions on others, presumably something a true feminist would have a problem with. 

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I'm sorry Ms. Noamani felt unwelcomed to march with us.  I don't have specific details about that other than her word for it - which you seem to believe as 100% gospel.  I guess it wouldn't be possible that she has any agenda or ax to grind.  Google searching her name brought up some interesting topics but my goal is not to put her on trial here, merely to point out she is one woman who felt disgruntled by our actions.  I'm certain there are others.  Had I the opportunity to talk with them individually I would have invited them along with my group.

Not gospel.  Looking to have a dialogue on it.  This isn't a card game where one card beats another and no questions asked.  It's a conversation, one from which we can both learn.  If she has an axe to grind, help me understand.  And perhaps you can assimilate that a) not everyone thinks it was the koombayah session you do, and b) not everyone that disagrees with you is worthy of your scorn.   

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You see, this group I was in...we all don't agree on a plethora of things:  Vaccines, stay-at-home moms, spanking kids, public breastfeeding, porn, GMOs, who we voted for in the election.  But that wasn't the point.  You speak of "implications of that march" what implications would you apply to me and my group?

None.  I don't know you and your group.  I'm speaking on broader terms (as were most of the others at that point of the discussion, talking also about the implications and meaning of the march.  It seems like it's okay to generalize for the 500,000 people when it SUPPORTS your position or the outcome of the march, but not so if it's not fully in communion with it.  We can either generalize or we cannot. 

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This is where you and I broke down in our communication the last time.  You attempted to inform me that how I felt about my personal experience with religion was wrong.  Here is the take home message.  You don't get to tell me what my experience is.  You don't get to minimize it.  You don't get to explain it away.  You don't get to try and make me feel bad for having my experience.  It is my experience.

I don't know the first thing about your experience.  It's not your EXPERIENCE that I'm saying is wrong.  Actually, I'm not saying ANYTHING about you is wrong.  I am saying that there's more to the story.  If you incorporate all those things in, and you still feel like you do, you have my sincere admiration.  I'm more about the blanket anger and rejection of any idea that even HINTS at disagreement with the general vibe.  Put simply, you're pushing the "pro-women angle" and I'm just suggesting that the organizers had more in mind, and that the "more" wasn't as purely admirable as the "pro-women angle".  If you choose to ignore the politics of George Soros, that's your prerogative, and I am in no way, shape or form saying you're wrong. I AM saying, don't be surprised if others don't. 

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Last Saturday almost 3 million people marched for some of or all of the reasons that chknptpie listed.  We all don't have to agree on each one.  We all don't have to agree on what we will do going forward.  But for one, brief, shining moment we were together and supporting one another.  We were all ages, all colors, all shapes, all religions, all socioeconomic status.  It was peaceful.  And it was beautiful.  And nothing you or anyone else can say is going to change MY experience.  Because I won't let you.

I'm not trying to.  You haven't read a damn word I've written, or you don't care, because you'd know that the last thing I want to do (or even feel I'm CAPABLE of doing) is changing your experience.  I'm rather glad you HAD that beautiful experience, from a human being perspective.   None of this is about that, and I'm sorry if you're so sensitive that you feel someone else can take that from you.   They can't. 

Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #110 on: January 24, 2017, 02:03:21 PM »
No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

I'd say that the majority of the blame is on her, but something short of 100%.  Maybe something like 60%-90%, depending on the situation.  You have to assign some blame to people who knowingly induce others into cheating.  Anyway, we're starting to agree on all but nearly irrelevant details.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #111 on: January 24, 2017, 02:06:48 PM »
You haven't read a damn word I've written, or you don't care, because you'd know that the last thing I want to do (or even feel I'm CAPABLE of doing) is changing your experience.  I'm rather glad you HAD that beautiful experience, from a human being perspective.   None of this is about that, and I'm sorry if you're so sensitive that you feel someone else can take that from you.   They can't.

You are wrong.  I have read every word.

One thing you are right about is your last 2 words.

And now we'll see if Bosk applies the same rules here to this post.  Because there is no way I can respond to you without going back on what I promised him.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2017, 02:09:55 PM »
No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

I'd say that the majority of the blame is on her, but something short of 100%.  Maybe something like 60%-90%, depending on the situation.  You have to assign some blame to people who knowingly induce others into cheating.  Anyway, we're starting to agree on all but nearly irrelevant details.

Well, I only say this to clarify - because it informs a lot of my thinking - and not to argue.  You can ascribe any percentage you want,  but for me, I feel it's about as close to 100% as you can get. I don't buy into the notion of "I cheated because I was induced".   No, that just means you're only as faithful as your opportunities.   I was faced with temptation in my marriages and for the most part, I found it within me to resist (I never actually cheated, though I imagine there were some impure thoughts here and there).  My current wife is beautiful in every way, but especially physically (she is a card-carrying beauty pageant winner, no shit).  She gets hit on all the time (even if she doesn't always realize it as such) and I'm happy for her that that is the case, but were she to stray, I wouldn't blame any of the men, only her.  She is a human, she has the power to say no, and it's her choice.   

How can you be a feminist and think that she is anything less than 100% in control of her body and what it does? 

Offline Harmony

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2017, 02:11:11 PM »
No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

I'd say that the majority of the blame is on her, but something short of 100%.  Maybe something like 60%-90%, depending on the situation.  You have to assign some blame to people who knowingly induce others into cheating.  Anyway, we're starting to agree on all but nearly irrelevant details.

Wasn't Trump married to his first wife Ivana when he got together with Marla Maples?  I'm pretty sure he was.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2017, 02:11:23 PM »
No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

I'd say that the majority of the blame is on her, but something short of 100%.  Maybe something like 60%-90%, depending on the situation.  You have to assign some blame to people who knowingly induce others into cheating.  Anyway, we're starting to agree on all but nearly irrelevant details.
I don't agree with this at all. The cheater is the person who is to blame - they are the one in the relationship with rules. You can't assign blame to the other person in the bed - since humans have free will and all lol

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #115 on: January 24, 2017, 02:16:16 PM »
I agree.  Unmarried person cheats with a married person - pretty much all of the "blame" goes to the married person.  They are the one breaking a vow.  It isn't the unmarried person's job to keep the married person's vow.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #116 on: January 24, 2017, 02:17:41 PM »
No doubt.  But having been cheated on, in a marriage, more than once, I can tell you that if Trump hit on a married woman and she slept with him, 100% of the blame for breaking the promise is on HER.   (And that's not a "woman" thing; I'm just saying, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.)

I'd say that the majority of the blame is on her, but something short of 100%.  Maybe something like 60%-90%, depending on the situation.  You have to assign some blame to people who knowingly induce others into cheating.  Anyway, we're starting to agree on all but nearly irrelevant details.

Wasn't Trump married to his first wife Ivana when he got together with Marla Maples?  I'm pretty sure he was.

Honest question: notwithstanding that we don't know the details, but on it's face, how would you place blame in that situation?

To the others, here, I would put 99% of it, if not 100%, on Trump himself.  Ivana didn't FORCE him to cheat, and I can't see how Marla made him go against his scruples.   Why is it not his fault for not being a man, divorcing Ivana, and moving on? 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #117 on: January 24, 2017, 02:18:43 PM »
I agree.  Unmarried person cheats with a married person - pretty much all of the "blame" goes to the married person.  They are the one breaking a vow.  It isn't the unmarried person's job to keep the married person's vow.

Even if the married person is cheating with another married person, it's still the individual that has the moral decision to make.  (Though I concede the dynamic is different).

Offline Harmony

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #118 on: January 24, 2017, 02:18:53 PM »
Also adding https://www.womensmarch.com/

Much more than one page.  If you get to one page, look further and click on all the other links.  Pages and pages of information.

Not one page.  I just happened to post the mission statement as the question was being asked, "What is it about?"

Offline Stadler

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #119 on: January 24, 2017, 02:27:32 PM »
Also adding https://www.womensmarch.com/

Much more than one page.  If you get to one page, look further and click on all the other links.  Pages and pages of information.

Not one page.  I just happened to post the mission statement as the question was being asked, "What is it about?"

I'll get through all of it, but I've clicked on and read about 10 or 15 pages (including ALL of the organizers and sponsors) and I don't see one mention of George Soros anywhere.  And on the sponsor page, Planned Parenthood, NRDC, Moveon.org, ACLU, and a couple others, so we're not even in shouting distance of "bipartisan".   

I will say this, though, the organization level is top notch.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #120 on: January 24, 2017, 02:32:26 PM »
To be fair, although that list of sponsors bankrolling the events is about as partisan as you could get, from what I heard, the tone of the marches in many cities was very neutral and positive, and was about coming together.  At least, that is how it was reported, and that is what I have been hearing here and there from those who attended. 
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Re: Women's March
« Reply #121 on: January 24, 2017, 03:18:26 PM »
I agree.  Unmarried person cheats with a married person - pretty much all of the "blame" goes to the married person.  They are the one breaking a vow.  It isn't the unmarried person's job to keep the married person's vow.
They are both scumbags equally in my book.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #122 on: January 24, 2017, 03:53:28 PM »
I still think the unmarried person has a responsibility to respect other people's relationships.  That doesn't necessarily take away any responsibility from the married person.  I see it as a duty in addition to the married person's responsibility to keep their vows.

I mean, we have tortuous interference for interfering with a competitor's business relationships.  It's not that much of a stretch to apply this to marital relationships.

Penalties for adultery usually punish both the married and unmarried person.  And you can even plead 2nd degree murder down to manslaughter if you kill a guy that you catch screwing your wife, because your temporary rage is somewhat justified.

So I think I'm more in the mainstream, at least of historical legal thought, when it comes to the notion that both people are to blame.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2017, 03:55:36 PM »
Wasn't Trump married to his first wife Ivana when he got together with Marla Maples?  I'm pretty sure he was.

Yes, this is exactly one of the things I was referring to.  He didn't even try to hide it, really.

The guy basically just does whatever he wants, and has no standards and no self-restraint.  That's not a good recipe for a man, and it's a terrible recipe for a leader of this country.  But I guess, for some people, they'll have to see the wreckage to believe it.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #124 on: January 24, 2017, 03:59:37 PM »
But I guess, for some people, they'll have to see the wreckage to believe it.

Even then, they'll find a way to justify it or excuse the wreckage as the fault of the "other side".

Offline Adami

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2017, 04:00:15 PM »
I think the unmarried person is at least responsible for aiding and abedding..................... :millahhhh
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Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2017, 04:09:35 PM »
Even then, they'll find a way to justify it or excuse the wreckage as the fault of the "other side".

I'm pretty sure some will.  However, I think it's a lot easier in politics for people to deny credit for successes to people they don't like (See Obama, Barack H.) than to excuse your own side for catastrophic failures (Bush's 25% approval rating after Iraq and the mortgage meltdown).

I'm sure something like 25% of his supporters will remain loyalists, though.  In his own words, he could shoot people in the street, and his supporters would still have his back.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2017, 06:41:53 PM »
I think the unmarried person is at least responsible for aiding and abedding..................... :millahhhh

 :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #128 on: January 24, 2017, 06:44:39 PM »


The guy basically just does whatever he wants, and has no standards and no self-restraint.  That's not a good recipe for a man, and it's a terrible recipe for a leader of this country.  But I guess, for some people, they'll have to see the wreckage to believe it.

That's no way to talk about Bill Clinton.

Offline TAC

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2017, 06:47:21 PM »
 :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #130 on: January 24, 2017, 07:09:18 PM »

That's no way to talk about Bill Clinton.

Funny, I just got done saying that "I know you are but what am I" is pretty much all Trump defenders have at this point.

Trump's lack of restraint is notably far worse than Bill's.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #131 on: January 24, 2017, 07:20:40 PM »
Don't forget "I'm rubber, you're glue".

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #132 on: January 24, 2017, 08:37:25 PM »
I guess it's a good thing that I am not a Trump defender, so that doesn't apply to me.

Trump is worse than Bill, for sure, but go back and ready your the part I quoted. That sums up Slick Willie as much as it does Trump.

Offline 73109

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #133 on: January 24, 2017, 09:30:16 PM »
Still waiting...

How many of the 4 million woman in that march have disrespected themselves by having one night stands with complete strangers? Yeah I know, its there choice to cheapen themselves...

I'm very interested in the logical proofs and arguments one can mobilize to claim something like this. Using what metrics can one claim that a woman cheapens herself every time she has sex with a dude, whether she knows/loves him or not.

Offline jsbru

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #134 on: January 24, 2017, 11:09:35 PM »
That sums up Slick Willie as much as it does Trump.

Consensual sex is not the same thing as sexual assault.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2017, 06:52:56 AM »
That sums up Slick Willie as much as it does Trump.

Consensual sex is not the same thing as sexual assault.
Except Trump has never been convicted of sexual assault. No matter what anyone wants to say.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2017, 07:05:55 AM »
Bill Clinton was never convicted of consensual sex, either.  Difference being that Bill Clinton didn't go around bragging about how he could likely get away with sexual assault, because he's a celebrity.

Offline Chino

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2017, 07:10:40 AM »
That sums up Slick Willie as much as it does Trump.

Consensual sex is not the same thing as sexual assault.
Except Trump has never been convicted of sexual assault. No matter what anyone wants to say.

I've never been convicted of any of the illegal stuff I've done/do. Several of which are felonies with decent jail time.

Offline Tick

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2017, 07:26:37 AM »
Bill Clinton was never convicted of consensual sex, either.  Difference being that Bill Clinton didn't go around bragging about how he could likely get away with sexual assault, because he's a celebrity.
Of coarse not, that would interfere with blow job hour.
In any event, Bill Clinton was impeached in part due to perjury. Clinton is a liar so how do I know what kinds of pressure he put on woman to fulfill his needs?

I don't personally like Trump the man but I believe he is going to do more to improve the economy than Obama did.
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline Chino

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Re: Women's March
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 07:34:59 AM »
Bill Clinton was never convicted of consensual sex, either.  Difference being that Bill Clinton didn't go around bragging about how he could likely get away with sexual assault, because he's a celebrity.
I don't personally like Trump the man but I believe he is going to do more to improve the economy than Obama did.

Have you gotten a raise in the last 8 years? How much money have you made in your 401K since 2009? See any GM vehicles on the road lately? How many middle class people do you know that can't find a job?