Author Topic: The ACA/Obamacare Thread  (Read 9346 times)

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #175 on: March 09, 2017, 07:27:50 AM »
instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people

This is what nobody seems to understand.  It isn't about the constituents.  Legislators DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about their constituents' best interests.  They give a fuck about lining their pockets with money from the pharmaceutical industry, the tobacco industry, and every other special interest group worth eleventeen brazillion megabucks.  They give a fuck about bending you over and giving it to you dry, all the while, pointing the finger at the "other side" and convincing you that THEY are to blame for it.  They give a fuck about staying in power at all costs.

What you or your family or your community or the greater good want or need is immaterial.  You should've been rich and privileged like us and you wouldn't have these problems!

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #176 on: March 09, 2017, 07:32:48 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.
wtf america

Seriously Rich.  I just had to pay $2000 in deductibles for the wife and I first  now everything is covered.
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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #177 on: March 09, 2017, 07:36:03 AM »
instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people

This is what nobody seems to understand.  It isn't about the constituents.  Legislators DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about their constituents' best interests.  They give a fuck about lining their pockets with money from the pharmaceutical industry, the tobacco industry, and every other special interest group worth eleventeen brazillion megabucks.  They give a fuck about bending you over and giving it to you dry, all the while, pointing the finger at the "other side" and convincing you that THEY are to blame for it.  They give a fuck about staying in power at all costs.

What you or your family or your community or the greater good want or need is immaterial.  You should've been rich and privileged like us and you wouldn't have these problems!

To show the government how pissed off the constituents are they voted in an idiot in office to prove a point. 

People are tired of the Dem/Rep battle instead of doing what is right.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #178 on: March 09, 2017, 07:44:58 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.

How much do trips to MedExpress cost you with your insurance? I ask because the same thing happens to me, about once or twice a year my ears need flushed out because of wax build up. I've discovered I don't need to go to my PCP for this, as the local MedExpress can easily handle it. I think for me it's a $50 co-pay or something for the appointment.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #179 on: March 09, 2017, 08:08:32 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.

How much do trips to MedExpress cost you with your insurance? I ask because the same thing happens to me, about once or twice a year my ears need flushed out because of wax build up. I've discovered I don't need to go to my PCP for this, as the local MedExpress can easily handle it. I think for me it's a $50 co-pay or something for the appointment.
That's a good idea, but only if you don't mind having warm water blasted into your ears. Some of us hate it. I'm not sure the standard PA that works at a doc-in-the-box would actually do it manually. In my case I'd go to my ENT. With Medicare it'd cost me 20%, and I'd be amazed if he charged more than [a still fundamentally outrageous] $300 for the procedure.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #180 on: March 09, 2017, 08:13:47 AM »
instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people

This is what nobody seems to understand.  It isn't about the constituents.  Legislators DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about their constituents' best interests.  They give a fuck about lining their pockets with money from the pharmaceutical industry, the tobacco industry, and every other special interest group worth eleventeen brazillion megabucks.  They give a fuck about bending you over and giving it to you dry, all the while, pointing the finger at the "other side" and convincing you that THEY are to blame for it.  They give a fuck about staying in power at all costs.

What you or your family or your community or the greater good want or need is immaterial.  You should've been rich and privileged like us and you wouldn't have these problems!

To show the government how pissed off the constituents are they voted in an idiot in office to prove a point. 

People are tired of the Dem/Rep battle instead of doing what is right.

I don't disagree with you.  It's fucking pathetic what our government has become, but it has become this way because the public itself is too self-important to loosen their political and religious beliefs just enough to realize that theirs are no more valid than anyone else's.  Politicians exploit that divide, confirm their respective base's assumption that the "other side" is to blame for all the evils in the world, causing them to stick even MORE fervently to those same beliefs, with the notion that the other side just doesn't get it.

All the while nobody realizes that they are the ones who have empowered those in charge to keep fucking them over and over til they die penniless and an unimportant blip on the historical radar.  Problem is, as we all know, over time, they've set up the entire political system so that no matter what you're only going to choose between R and D.  Nobody else will ever stand a chance, no matter how much people vote in protest or try to change the system.  Those in power are never going to let the peons like me change the system that they've set up to keep them rolling in the dough and power.

Some people say I'm way too pessimistic about all of this, but I've never been given any good reason to believe that politicians will ever give a damn about anything other than dividing the people, so that they can continue to stay in power.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #181 on: March 09, 2017, 08:20:43 AM »
Some people say I'm way too pessimistic about all of this, but I've never been given any good reason to believe that politicians will ever give a damn about anything other than dividing the people, so that they can continue to stay in power.
Much like my view of the police, I don't think this applies to very many of them at all individually. I think it's an inevitable outcome when they work collectively, though.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #182 on: March 09, 2017, 09:04:46 AM »
It certainly works.  Only about half of the populace (give or take) are active in the political process on the local/state/federal level, and only about half of them are really knowledgeable in the way the government actually works.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #183 on: March 09, 2017, 09:46:55 AM »
 The price of healthcare is the number one reason I will always defend being in the union.

 My recent kidney stone procedure carried a price tag of about $6000. My out-of-pocket ended up being less than a grand.  I honestly wish everyone on the planet had that level of coverage. I think it should be more affordable
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #184 on: March 09, 2017, 10:43:29 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.

How much do trips to MedExpress cost you with your insurance? I ask because the same thing happens to me, about once or twice a year my ears need flushed out because of wax build up. I've discovered I don't need to go to my PCP for this, as the local MedExpress can easily handle it. I think for me it's a $50 co-pay or something for the appointment.

Have you guys ever tried an ear wax candle?  I don't have an ear wax issue, but I've seen these candles before and saw how much disgusting shit it can remove from your ear.  Just figured it may be worth trying as it's a cheap and safe alternative to try at home compared to seeing a doctor.

As for this new bill, it appears to be pretty poor, but it also seems like it's just a starting point and negotiations are beginning to refine it.  I don't see how this gets funded this way from my understanding, but I also don't think it's worth my time and effort to understand this as there's no way it gets passed as is.  I think I'll just wait till we are closer to a final product to start forming more of an opinion.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #185 on: March 09, 2017, 10:47:13 AM »
I use a paper clip.  Very carefully.

I've also used the carbamide peroxide drops before as well.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #186 on: March 09, 2017, 11:17:42 AM »
That's a good idea, but only if you don't mind having warm water blasted into your ears. Some of us hate it. I'm not sure the standard PA that works at a doc-in-the-box would actually do it manually. In my case I'd go to my ENT. With Medicare it'd cost me 20%, and I'd be amazed if he charged more than [a still fundamentally outrageous] $300 for the procedure.

True. It feels awful, but it's the only thing that works really well for me, and since I can get it done pretty cheap, I begrudgingly do it.

Have you guys ever tried an ear wax candle?  I don't have an ear wax issue, but I've seen these candles before and saw how much disgusting shit it can remove from your ear.  Just figured it may be worth trying as it's a cheap and safe alternative to try at home compared to seeing a doctor.

I haven't. I always get nervous with home remedies for ear-related things. I get flashes of me somehow going deaf.  :lol

As for this new bill, it appears to be pretty poor, but it also seems like it's just a starting point and negotiations are beginning to refine it.  I don't see how this gets funded this way from my understanding, but I also don't think it's worth my time and effort to understand this as there's no way it gets passed as is.  I think I'll just wait till we are closer to a final product to start forming more of an opinion.

This is pretty much where I am at with this whole thing.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #187 on: March 09, 2017, 11:26:45 AM »
As for this new bill, it appears to be pretty poor, but it also seems like it's just a starting point and negotiations are beginning to refine it.  I don't see how this gets funded this way from my understanding, but I also don't think it's worth my time and effort to understand this as there's no way it gets passed as is.  I think I'll just wait till we are closer to a final product to start forming more of an opinion.
And you're probably correct. The problem is, further negotiations will strictly be to bring revolting republicans in line, and disregard the democrats. That will make the bill more fiscally responsible, but do even less to accomplish its stated goal of replacing ACA. Reversing the age of the tax credits was one such example of that, and it's why the AARP is bent out of shape. It'll also do little to help the average people who only wanted to see their premiums go down (which was/is never going to happen).
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Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #188 on: March 13, 2017, 07:31:40 AM »

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2017, 09:39:21 AM »
 Wow. :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #190 on: March 13, 2017, 12:02:28 PM »
That is the voting populace.

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #191 on: March 13, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »
I had to read that twice to make sure it said what it said.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #192 on: March 13, 2017, 03:49:13 PM »
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486

COB report on the world's greatest health plan. Plenty of shit for both sides to continue slinging at each other for a while.

As for myself, I don't share the CBO's optimism that premiums will go down in 3 years, but even if it's correct and they do, it's not going to be what people expect and it's a pretty sad state. Part of the future decrease would come from old folk dropping their coverage because it's no longer affordable. Essentially, the plan is for insurers to dump their old customers in favor of younger, cheaper ones. Makes perfect sense, in a heartless, bureaucratic sort of way.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #193 on: March 14, 2017, 07:11:13 AM »
It's a horrible plan with horrible consequences and horrible costs.  The only people it will benefit are the very rich.

Oh, and Paul Ryan, who has a huge hard-on for this plan due to the "savings to the American people".  Sure.

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Offline cramx3

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #194 on: March 14, 2017, 07:18:19 AM »
Oh, and Paul Ryan, who has a huge hard-on for this plan due to the "savings to the American people".  Sure.

It's kind of crazy that the politicians are on a different health plan.  It makes it hard to believe anything they say about who benefits from the plan when they don't have to deal with it.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #195 on: March 14, 2017, 08:54:12 AM »
Am I looking at a different bill?   I'm not seeing the same downsides that most are hanging their hats on (quick caveat:  I do not at all think "Number of people covered" is a valid metric, nor the right metric to use).   By removing the penalty - some call it a "mandate" - you have to account for the fact that SOME portion (if not all) of the number of increased uninsureds are there because they WANT to be there.  It's like measuring the work force based on number of cars driven.   Well, when I lived in Philly, I could easily get by without a car (if I didn't have a kid).   Premiums are projected to go down, Budget deficit expected to go down.  Subsidies will of course drop because we're not subsidizing people that don't want the coverage to begin with; I haven't seen anything that says that subsidies for those that DO will be going away...

What - beyond the normal partisan "the Republicans did it, therefore they MUST be trying to fuck the little guy" nonsense rhetoric - is the main problem?   How does this allegedly "benefit the rich"? 

Offline bosk1

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #196 on: March 14, 2017, 09:02:47 AM »
Am I looking at a different bill?   

I would suspect that the more likely answer is that nobody else who has posted in this thread has.  Nor have they likely actually read any significant portion of ACA.  It's easier to argue sound bites.
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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #197 on: March 14, 2017, 09:21:47 AM »
It's a horrible plan with horrible consequences and horrible costs.  The only people it will benefit are the very rich.

You've just described the current ACA   :lol 
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2017, 09:36:57 AM »
Am I looking at a different bill?   

I would suspect that the more likely answer is that nobody else who has posted in this thread has.  Nor have they likely actually read any significant portion of ACA.  It's easier to argue sound bites.
I read the House's synopsis and I read the CBO in full. My objections are very different from Stadler's in that I simply think that it can't work. You can't mandate the insurance companies cover the sick while allowing half of the healthy people to jump ship. If you want to dispute the logic of that then knock yourself out. If you want to say that the bill says something different then I'd love to hear your interpretation of it. Just suggesting that it's all knee-jerk reactionism by people who don't know what they're talkikng about is nonconstructive. 

I swear, some people act as if we should wait until we're bleeding out before actually deciding whether or not the guy pointing a gun at our heads really intends to shoot us or not. "Wait, let's see where he's going with this. . ."
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #199 on: March 14, 2017, 09:44:19 AM »
It's a horrible plan with horrible consequences and horrible costs.  The only people it will benefit are the very rich.

You've just described the current ACA   :lol
That is flatly not true.

How does this allegedly "benefit the rich"?

Trading Health Care for the Poor for Tax Cuts for the Rich

A side-by-side comparison of Obamacare and the GOPs replacement plan

And bosky, I read it.  It's a lot smaller than the ACA, as Melissa McCarthy Spicer showed the other day.  Not sure why it needed a six-page provision on making sure to kick poor people out of the plan who win a lottery, but whatevs.  That's important, I guess.

So, this new plan is good for young people with no health issues, and also for policy wonks who think that it is more important that a healthcare bill reduce the deficit than provide access to healthcare, and it is also good for the extremely wealthy.  It is not good for the poor or the sick or the elderly.  Which makes it, by definition, kind of a shitty health care plan.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #200 on: March 14, 2017, 09:56:43 AM »
I'm undecided on whether or not it's good for the unhealthy, although it will likely create a minor problem with plenty of them being lost in the cracks. I also don't think it's designed to benefit the wealthy. It benefits the young and healthy at the expense of the older. That looks great on paper.
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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #201 on: March 14, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »
I admit to have not read the bill or have done any in depth personal analysis but my biggest concern is this:

You can't mandate the insurance companies cover the sick while allowing half of the healthy people to jump ship.

I am just not understanding how this gets funded.  I feel this is the tricky part with health insurance in general, not just this proposal, but the ACA and the way insurance worked before that. 

Offline kaos2900

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #202 on: March 14, 2017, 10:33:40 AM »
No plan will solve the health care issues in this country until Hospitals begin being held accountable for their outrageous costs and practices to inflate costs of procedures. The ACA and this plan only focus on coverage. I don't understand why people don't understand that a direct cause of higher premiums are a direct result of high medical costs being charged by the greedy hospital systems. Health insurers need to be held accountable as well but there is major component of this issue that is being missed.

Offline Adami

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #203 on: March 14, 2017, 10:39:35 AM »
I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that a lot of the high costs are simply from greed.

However, one factor in the high costs, that should not be missed, is to account for malpractice insurance. If people weren't in such a rush to sue a doctor for every possible thing, this might not be as big a problem. However, as it is, doctors need a ton of malpractice insurance which drives up costs a ton.
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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #204 on: March 14, 2017, 10:58:47 AM »
That is very true Adami.  I also think they charge so much for simple things like an aspirin to make up for those who do not have insurance.  It's a broken process that needs a huge overhaul.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #205 on: March 14, 2017, 11:53:07 AM »
It's a horrible plan with horrible consequences and horrible costs.  The only people it will benefit are the very rich.

You've just described the current ACA   :lol
That is flatly not true.

Well, no.  It flatly is unequivocally true.  The specific reasons why are debatable for a lot of reasons, including:  (1) It is a HUGE piece of legislation with TONS of moving parts, and it is difficult to even understand what they all are, much less how they actually interact with one another.  So even trying to be fair and unbiased about the legislation itself, it is immensely complex and difficult to understand.  (2) Its actual impact and the, in many cases, unforeseen reactions are diverse and complex.  So, yes, the specifics are debatable.  But in terms of it failing, both in terms of the consequences and the costs, there really is no credible debate. 

How does this allegedly "benefit the rich"?

Trading Health Care for the Poor for Tax Cuts for the Rich

A side-by-side comparison of Obamacare and the GOP’s replacement plan

And bosky, I read it.  It's a lot smaller than the ACA, as Melissa McCarthy Spicer showed the other day.  Not sure why it needed a six-page provision on making sure to kick poor people out of the plan who win a lottery, but whatevs.  That's important, I guess.

So, this new plan is good for young people with no health issues, and also for policy wonks who think that it is more important that a healthcare bill reduce the deficit than provide access to healthcare, and it is also good for the extremely wealthy.  It is not good for the poor or the sick or the elderly.  Which makes it, by definition, kind of a shitty health care plan.

Well, your last paragraph is incorrect, as are the summaries you linked to.  I'm not defending the new act.  Barto may be completely right about whether it will work.  I honestly don't know and can't say.  But the misinformation about it, and the vehemence with which people defend that misinformation is staggering.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #206 on: March 14, 2017, 12:03:23 PM »
How does this allegedly "benefit the rich"?

Trading Health Care for the Poor for Tax Cuts for the Rich

A side-by-side comparison of Obamacare and the GOPs replacement plan

And bosky, I read it.  It's a lot smaller than the ACA, as Melissa McCarthy Spicer showed the other day.  Not sure why it needed a six-page provision on making sure to kick poor people out of the plan who win a lottery, but whatevs.  That's important, I guess.

So, this new plan is good for young people with no health issues, and also for policy wonks who think that it is more important that a healthcare bill reduce the deficit than provide access to healthcare, and it is also good for the extremely wealthy.  It is not good for the poor or the sick or the elderly.  Which makes it, by definition, kind of a shitty health care plan.

Well, your last paragraph is incorrect, as are the summaries you linked to.

 I don't understand why you're summarily dismissing those links.  The NYT link is an editorial ok sure, maybe,  but the LA times piece seems thorough enough.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #207 on: March 14, 2017, 12:08:04 PM »
So the only people benefiting from the ACA are the very rich?  Come on, bosky.

And if you are saying the information about the new bill is incorrect, then you ARE defending it.  How about pointing out where and why it's wrong?

Right now, this bill is being opposed by Democrats (obviously), many Republicans (for a variety of reasons), conservative and Libertarian advocacy groups/think tanks, the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Nurses Association, and the AARP, among others.  I guess they are all just being silly.

I don't think the ACA is greatest thing in the world.  It definitely has issues.  But if, instead of correcting what's wrong with it, the best the GOP can come up with is this tripe, then they don't appear to be taking health care issues very seriously at all.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #208 on: March 14, 2017, 12:35:11 PM »

I don't think the ACA is greatest thing in the world.  It definitely has issues.  But if, instead of correcting what's wrong with it, the best the GOP can come up with is this tripe, then they don't appear to be taking health care issues very seriously at all.

Now, as a special treat courtesy of our friends at the Meat Council, please help yourself to this tripe
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #209 on: March 14, 2017, 12:35:46 PM »
I don't think the ACA is greatest thing in the world.  It definitely has issues.  But if, instead of correcting what's wrong with it, the best the GOP can come up with is this tripe, then they don't appear to be taking health care issues very seriously at all.

This. The frustrating thing is the 'rush' to do this, it's causing the same issue that happened when obama slammed the ACA through. Instead of taking a bit of time, "workimg the crowd" a bit to gain bipartisan support and Input to correct the faults in the ACA and then sending that proposal in, trump and the repubs are taking their turn trying to slam a haphazardly written law through because they think they have to do it quickly.

Measure twice and cut once.....
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