Author Topic: The ACA/Obamacare Thread  (Read 3338 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #140 on: February 01, 2017, 09:57:01 AM »
I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to health care, but generally, when I hear the word "regulations", my mind normally equates it with "protective measures".

If there is a hoop that some company needlessly has to jump through, then fine, but my guess is that a regulation was put into place because there was an issue along the way.

That's not always true. Gas cans are a perfect example. Gas cans were fine. A container with a screw on cap that held the gas in. You ever see a gas can now? Fuck modern gas cans. I bought a new one last year and couldn't figure out how to get it to work for a solid twenty minutes. There are like seven safety measures I need to acknowledge before I can fill my snowblower, a machine that's more than capable of tearing a limb off. I said the hell with it and grabbed the metal can from the 80's that's been sitting in my parent's garage my whole life. Works like a charm.

Those regulations stemmed from the gas canister companies designing uneccessary safety measures, and then lobbying our lawmakers to make using them a requirement. Every store needed to upgrade their inventory, and every contractor under the sun needed to upgrade their gas cans to remain compliant with Osha.

WORD!

I was trying to fill my weed wacker this summer, and same thing.  I had to turn this, and then push in this spring loaded thing, AND hold the weedwacker, AND pour... I shit you not, in the "name of safety" I dumped a half a gallon of gasoline all over the floor of my wooden garage.  So much for safety; one spark and "house fire!"   I too remember the metal jerry cans that were as simple as unscrewing a top, like a jar of pickles.  Worked fine for three quarters of a century. (I can also remember working on the car and washing my hands in gasoline to get the grease off, too, so take that for what it's worth.)

Look, I'm a fan of the system, and it works well far more often than it doesn't.  But the ACA is not the only law on the books that was rammed home to "meet a need" but in fact doesn't do so very effectively.  The environmental field in particular is chock full of laws that "sound good", or "make common sense", but in fact don't stop the suspected harm, cause their own harms, or needlessly add dollars to the process with no discernible positive change.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #141 on: February 01, 2017, 10:19:55 AM »
edit: wrong thread.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 10:40:29 AM by El Barto »
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #142 on: February 01, 2017, 10:35:13 AM »
What are the unnecessary safety features in gas cans?

Offline Stadler

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #143 on: February 01, 2017, 11:03:05 AM »
What are the unnecessary safety features in gas cans?

On the ones I have (three of them; one gas, one oil/gas mix, one diesel), it's a spill proof/filter combination that makes it virtually impossible to get fuel out of the container, even if you're trying to do so purposefully.   You have to turn a disk -like a sleeve - a quarter turn so these slots line up, then push the nozzle back into the slots to "open" the valve, then hold it this way while you tip up the container and guide the nozzle into the fill hole. 

It's every bit as complicated as it sounds, and I end up spilling more gasoline now than I ever did with an old school jerry can.

Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #144 on: February 01, 2017, 11:21:55 AM »
What are the unnecessary safety features in gas cans?

On the ones I have (three of them; one gas, one oil/gas mix, one diesel), it's a spill proof/filter combination that makes it virtually impossible to get fuel out of the container, even if you're trying to do so purposefully.   You have to turn a disk -like a sleeve - a quarter turn so these slots line up, then push the nozzle back into the slots to "open" the valve, then hold it this way while you tip up the container and guide the nozzle into the fill hole. 

It's every bit as complicated as it sounds, and I end up spilling more gasoline now than I ever did with an old school jerry can.

I swear, the one I bought has even more than this. The image below failed to mention the tension tab that you need to press in order to even unscrew the cap. I sliced my thumb open really good on the serrated teeth the first time I tried using it because the damn thing wouldn't budge. You can see it if you look at where the black plastic parts meet the red container. There's also a safety cap within the cap to prevent gas from coming out. You need to take it out and set it aside before use. I threw mine away.

You can't just dump the fuel once you've got all the safety crap unlocked. You actually have to get the nozzle (or whatever you want to call it) to compress inward in order to open the valve to allow fuel to flow. It's a real pain in the dick, especially if the can is nearly empty and not weighing much.


Offline cramx3

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #145 on: February 01, 2017, 11:28:23 AM »
I'm pretty sure the last time I used my gas can, which I believe is exactly the same as that picture, I just took the top cap off and poured it that way carefully.   :lol  I never really thought much of the history of gas cans before this thread, but damn that does seem like a good example of some unneeded regulation.  Also my good friend is a teacher and one of his students, 18 years old, just recently had a fire pit accident where he put gasoline onto the firepit and managed to light his entire body on fire leaving him with 80% burns.  Clearly the gasoline can doesn't prevent stupidity.

Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #146 on: February 01, 2017, 11:34:12 AM »
This is what I use   :lol I don't care if I look like a peasant at the gas pump.


Offline cramx3

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #147 on: February 01, 2017, 11:36:50 AM »
 :lol did you have to scavenge that from somewhere?

Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #148 on: February 01, 2017, 11:39:19 AM »
:lol did you have to scavenge that from somewhere?

It was in the garage of my parent's house pretty much my entire life. We had lawn and winter services growing up, so it was never used, literally. I don't know why my dad kept it all those years. One weekend last year when I was visiting them, I went home with it. The thing works great. Any fuel in it evaporated long ago and it sat dry and empty for over twenty years. It still seemed pretty new-ish inside, so I figured what the hell.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #149 on: February 01, 2017, 11:40:23 AM »
 :tup

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #150 on: February 01, 2017, 01:33:26 PM »
But the layman in me DOES wish there were some kind of shortcut/waiver for terminal patients here in the US to get access to drugs not yet through the pipeline.  What's the worst that can happen in that instance?
There are exemptions you can apply for. I forget the exact term, but they exist. I work in the medical device field and am currently working with a med device company to try and save a dudes life through one of these exemptions. The FDA wants to see proof that the product is sterile (instead of just running it through a generic sterilization cycle and calling it good) before they'll allow it, so I'm helping with that.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #151 on: February 01, 2017, 01:53:45 PM »
 :tup

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline cramx3

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2017, 08:48:23 AM »
I personally wouldn't be opposed to the idea of just fixing the ACA.  If the Republicans in office are struggling to find a good replacement, I would hope (but I doubt) that they would settle for a redo of the ACA and just fix certain things like state lines that may help bring the cost down.  Something to make everyone happy at the expense of the promise of repeal.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/317441-gop-talk-shifts-from-replacing-obamacare-to-repairing-it

I'm cool with this.  Make progress towards something better and not just rip it all apart.  I'm not a fan of the ACA but I understand where it worked and to keep that and fix the problems is a fine solution to me.  Sure the GOP will need to step back from their promise and who knows if they have the balls to admit to going a different route, but to me, I am on board with a repair and not a replace.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2017, 08:53:29 AM »
I personally wouldn't be opposed to the idea of just fixing the ACA.  If the Republicans in office are struggling to find a good replacement, I would hope (but I doubt) that they would settle for a redo of the ACA and just fix certain things like state lines that may help bring the cost down.  Something to make everyone happy at the expense of the promise of repeal.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/317441-gop-talk-shifts-from-replacing-obamacare-to-repairing-it

I'm cool with this.  Make progress towards something better and not just rip it all apart.  I'm not a fan of the ACA but I understand where it worked and to keep that and fix the problems is a fine solution to me.  Sure the GOP will need to step back from their promise and who knows if they have the balls to admit to going a different route, but to me, I am on board with a repair and not a replace.

I agree totally, I'd be fine with exploring this as well. My fear is that Trump won't have any of it. He campaigned hard, I mean hard, on REPEAL and REPLACE. Additionally, doing both those things in a short amount of time. Reading through this article it sounds like the GOP is thinking of slowing it down and repairing. Trump isn't going to get it, and isn't going to like it. I hope he doesn't rush into something in order to check a box off as a campaign promise completed. I'd rather them take the time to fix aspects of it and he can check that box later.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2017, 10:12:05 AM »
I personally wouldn't be opposed to the idea of just fixing the ACA.  If the Republicans in office are struggling to find a good replacement, I would hope (but I doubt) that they would settle for a redo of the ACA and just fix certain things like state lines that may help bring the cost down.  Something to make everyone happy at the expense of the promise of repeal.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/317441-gop-talk-shifts-from-replacing-obamacare-to-repairing-it

I'm cool with this.  Make progress towards something better and not just rip it all apart.  I'm not a fan of the ACA but I understand where it worked and to keep that and fix the problems is a fine solution to me.  Sure the GOP will need to step back from their promise and who knows if they have the balls to admit to going a different route, but to me, I am on board with a repair and not a replace.

Although I think, deep in my heart, that the only real solution is "single payer", I'd support this.  "Repair" is not an admission of failure, unless you are literally looking for ANY scrap of compromise as a sign of "FAILURE!".   I don't have any illusions that it will be any easier, but I imagine it will be a PR coup for those people looking to be fair, and who are really, honestly focused on a working healthcare system (and not just looking to stick it to the party they oppose). 

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2017, 11:04:51 AM »
I've maintained that there is no replacement, and I have very serious doubts that they can repair it, but if they can find a way I applaud it. However, I don't think they try. I think the republicans are just as concerned with Obama's legacy as he was, and I honestly don't see them letting it stay intact enough that Obama gets to take credit for it. Part of it is spite, and part of it is that they can't leave "Obamacare" in place after harping about it for 4 years. Put simply, they have a branding problem. And if it is fixable, then WTF have they been doing for all this time?
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #156 on: March 07, 2017, 03:46:10 PM »
Latest on the ACA

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/876718?nlid=113272_3901&src=wnl_newsalrt_170306_MSCPEDIT&uac=243112AZ&impID=1303030&faf=1

Here's the potential changes from the article.

Give Americans refundable tax credits ranging from $2000 to $4000 a  year per individual, based on age, to buy private health coverage.  They are capped at $14,000 for a family. In a change from the draft version, tax credits begin to shrink once annual income surpasses $75,000 ($150,000 for joint tax filers).

Repeal the penalty for individuals who do not obtain coverage.

Prohibit, as the ACA does, insurers from denying coverage to  individuals with pre-existing conditions, or charging them more.

Preserve the ACA provision that allows young adults to remain on their parents' plan until age 26.

Eliminate ACA taxes on such things as medical devices, prescription drugs, over-the-counter medications, and certain health insurers.

Allow individuals and families to almost double the amount they can contribute to health savings accounts, and give them more flexibility in spending those dollars.

Give states $100 billion worth of grants over 10 years to set up  high-risk insurance pools for individuals with costly, pre-existing  conditions; reduce out-of-pocket expenses; promote access to preventive       services; and otherwise make healthcare more affordable.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #157 on: March 07, 2017, 04:55:54 PM »
Three's a lot of analysis to be done, but the thing sure doesn't seem right to me. If Obamacare is in a death-spiral then how is this supposed to help? You force the insurance companies to keep on board the sick people but allow the healthy ones to opt out. On the governmental side, you do away many of the things that provided revenue for the subsidies. It seems to defy the most basic tenets of economics and, quite frankly, 3rd grade arithmetic.
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Offline TAC

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #158 on: March 07, 2017, 05:25:39 PM »
It does indeed sound expensive.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #159 on: March 07, 2017, 05:56:41 PM »
Latest on the ACA

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/876718?nlid=113272_3901&src=wnl_newsalrt_170306_MSCPEDIT&uac=243112AZ&impID=1303030&faf=1

Here's the potential changes from the article.

Give Americans refundable tax credits ranging from $2000 to $4000 a  year per individual, based on age, to buy private health coverage.  They are capped at $14,000 for a family. In a change from the draft version, tax credits begin to shrink once annual income surpasses $75,000 ($150,000 for joint tax filers).

Repeal the penalty for individuals who do not obtain coverage.

Prohibit, as the ACA does, insurers from denying coverage to  individuals with pre-existing conditions, or charging them more.

Preserve the ACA provision that allows young adults to remain on their parents' plan until age 26.

Eliminate ACA taxes on such things as medical devices, prescription drugs, over-the-counter medications, and certain health insurers.

Allow individuals and families to almost double the amount they can contribute to health savings accounts, and give them more flexibility in spending those dollars.

Give states $100 billion worth of grants over 10 years to set up  high-risk insurance pools for individuals with costly, pre-existing  conditions; reduce out-of-pocket expenses; promote access to preventive       services; and otherwise make healthcare more affordable.

That first detail is so annoying, and what I hate about politics in a nutshell. The people stuff like this are supposed to help are those barely squeaking by, who can't afford insurance and are getting sick, unable to work. They do not pay federal income tax. Giving them a tax credit sounds amazing until you realize that's just bupkis used to make it sound like they're doing more for poor people than they really are.

I don't really understand how this is some amazing plan that'll be so much better than the ACA. Other than removing Obama's name from its nickname, I guess.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #160 on: March 07, 2017, 07:51:26 PM »
They're repealing the individual mandate, but if you go 2 months without coverage, they increase your premium by 30% for an entire year. While that's intended to deter people from dropping their coverage, it seems to me that it will just result in a lot of people never signing up again (or at all, if they don't sign up immediately when the program starts).

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #161 on: March 07, 2017, 10:20:12 PM »
They're repealing the individual mandate, but if you go 2 months without coverage, they increase your premium by 30% for an entire year. While that's intended to deter people from dropping their coverage, it seems to me that it will just result in a lot of people never signing up again (or at all, if they don't sign up immediately when the program starts).
Thirty percent? Seriously? For it to work it'd have to be 300%.  :rollin

I think there are a whole lot of people who foolishly think their premiums are going to drop once the name changes. They're going to be sadly mistaken if this is what the replacement looks like. Aetna's going to drop their rates 15% so everybody celebrates and stops paying attention and then start nudging them right back up. 
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Offline 73109

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #162 on: March 07, 2017, 10:29:28 PM »
Nobody likes the bill. Prominent GOP senators have said they will not vote for it. It has received absolutely no support from legitimate policy analysts and will probably die in the committee. I'm just wondering who's going to take the fall—Ryan maybe?

Also, a funny pic:



Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2017, 10:14:07 AM »
World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

This is great, because it just goes to showcase that those in charge think that fucking with the general public, especially peons like me, is just a big joke.  HAR HAR HAR.  Fuck you, you shitbags.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #164 on: March 08, 2017, 11:55:26 AM »
Democrats hate the new plan.

Many Republicans hate the new plan.

The AARP hates the new plan.

This plan sucks and is going nowhere.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #165 on: March 08, 2017, 11:59:29 AM »
And they're all correct to hate it. It's not a replacement if it leaves so many people uncovered. It's fiscally irresponsible if that sort of thing is your primary focus. The tax credits get smaller as you get older (and if I'm not mistaken, it began the other way around which actually would have made sense). And on top of that, I really can't see how premiums wouldn't go up. They'd pretty much have to.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #166 on: March 08, 2017, 12:13:43 PM »
Yep.  This is just stupid.

If they aren't willing to do something radically awesome like expanding Medicare into a single payer plan, then they should forget about "repeal and replace" of the ACA and just find ways to fix the major problems with the plan/make it work better for as many people as possible.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #167 on: March 08, 2017, 12:20:33 PM »
But guys, look how much smaller the new stack of paper is!


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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #168 on: March 08, 2017, 10:46:00 PM »
Oh man...Melissa McCarthy is gonna have a field day with that one.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2017, 01:06:31 AM »
I loved when he pointed at the big one and said "that one's government" and then pointed to his and said "and that one's not"

Yea, it's not the government.........the document literally created by the government.
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Offline ariich

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #170 on: March 09, 2017, 05:06:20 AM »
omg they're actually trying to call it the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan? That's just hilariously ludicrous.

EDIT: Though I find the whole American healthcare system nonsensical anyway.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #171 on: March 09, 2017, 06:24:46 AM »
So do Americans.  I really don't understand why we have to do everything ass-backwards.

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #172 on: March 09, 2017, 06:32:48 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #173 on: March 09, 2017, 06:38:05 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.

Offline ariich

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Re: The ACA/Obamacare Thread
« Reply #174 on: March 09, 2017, 06:46:58 AM »
It's amazing seeing two sides fight each other over philosophies instead of doing the right thing for their constituents, the American people.  All this while the prices rise and rise to the point that people do not want to go to their doctor's for just a normal visit because it cost too much.

I know, I've done it and I've got insurance.

I have amazing insurance and still do this. My left ear, for whatever reason, produces excess wax and it could really use a cleanout. I've avoided it because after copay it costs me $235 for the doctor to jam a plastic toothpick in my ear for 3 seconds. It's something I typically get done once or twice a year. He used to do it at the end of an unrelated visit for nothing because it was so quick and effortless. Now  it's $235. I don't understand it.
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