Author Topic: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?  (Read 6732 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #105 on: February 17, 2017, 08:39:53 PM »
I think it's right on the money.  It's basically, "Every time there's a terrorist attack committed by someone affiliated with Islam, instead of asking 'how can we stop this?,' liberals say, 'don't be mean to muslims.'"  The real laugher is that some liberals (generally speaking, for those accusing me of generalizing) who are also atheists love to mock christians, but are quick to defend muslims.  It doesn't make any sense.  All of these bleeding hearts who marched weeks ago when they were duped into thinking Trump's stupid ban was strictly a muslim ban, does anyone think they would have done the same thing if a president was accused (wrongly or not) of trying to keep more christians out of the country? 

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #106 on: February 17, 2017, 08:57:06 PM »
I think it's right on the money.  It's basically, "Every time there's a terrorist attack committed by someone affiliated with Islam, instead of asking 'how can we stop this?,' liberals say, 'don't be mean to muslims.'"  The real laugher is that some liberals (generally speaking, for those accusing me of generalizing) who are also atheists love to mock christians, but are quick to defend muslims.  It doesn't make any sense.  All of these bleeding hearts who marched weeks ago when they were duped into thinking Trump's stupid ban was strictly a muslim ban, does anyone think they would have done the same thing if a president was accused (wrongly or not) of trying to keep more christians out of the country?

I strongly disagree with everything but what could I possibly say,  you sure have liberals pegged.   :yeahright

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2017, 09:02:30 PM »
Also, if you're against people being persecuted in Arab or Muslim countries.....shouldn't you be equally against it here too?

I would care more that people are being persecuted in other countries, but I am not a citizen of those countries and do not have any electoral voice there. I would like nothing more to actively work toward ending such persecution abroad, but then I see what happens when we meddle in geographical areas we shouldn't.

Otherwise I might have misunderstood your post, or I misunderstood yours #nyquil
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Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #108 on: February 17, 2017, 09:04:40 PM »
I get that you're saying that persecution in certain other countries is awful and you wish you could do something.

However, I didn't here anything about you being truly against the persecution faced by people in America, I guess unless it's to the same level as it is in other countries.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2017, 09:14:01 PM »
I think it's right on the money.  It's basically, "Every time there's a terrorist attack committed by someone affiliated with Islam, instead of asking 'how can we stop this?,' liberals say, 'don't be mean to muslims.'"  The real laugher is that some liberals (generally speaking, for those accusing me of generalizing) who are also atheists love to mock christians, but are quick to defend muslims.  It doesn't make any sense.  All of these bleeding hearts who marched weeks ago when they were duped into thinking Trump's stupid ban was strictly a muslim ban, does anyone think they would have done the same thing if a president was accused (wrongly or not) of trying to keep more christians out of the country?

I strongly disagree with everything but what could I possibly say,  you sure have liberals pegged.   :yeahright

I made a point to italicize the word 'some' (bolded now in case you missed it) to avoid painting all liberals with the same brush.  Maher's comment, which I agreed with, sounds like he is doing that, but it's clear that he meant some liberals as well, not all (since he himself is a liberal).

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2017, 09:18:30 PM »
Oh, then I truly misspoke. Or mistyped. I have so much disdain for the Mayor and much of Seattle politics - fortunately I am outside the city, but it is the largest city by me - that much of it was lost in my post. Peace? 
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Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2017, 09:19:48 PM »
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2017, 09:39:28 PM »
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/milo-yiannopoulos-talks-leslie-jones-lena-dunham-trump-real-time-all-i-care-is-free-speech-9772?utm_source=twitter

From the look of this it sounds like Milo and Bill had a nice friendly chat about how much they hate women in hollywood.  The whole thing is just a clusterfuck  :tdwn

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2017, 09:53:03 PM »
If that is all you got out of it, you are missing the bigger picture, and only echo what others have been saying about the left's inability to get out from under their own shells and listen to others whom they might disagree with.

Quote
Maher, who previously lobbied to have Yiannopoulos on his show, responded to Scahill's cancelation with the following statement: "Liberals will continue to lose elections as long as they follow the example of people like Mr. Scahill whose views veer into fantasy and away from bedrock liberal principles like equality of women, respect for minorities, separation of religion and state and free speech."
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2017, 10:33:36 PM »
I think it's right on the money.  It's basically, "Every time there's a terrorist attack committed by someone affiliated with Islam, instead of asking 'how can we stop this?,' liberals say, 'don't be mean to muslims.'"  The real laugher is that some liberals (generally speaking, for those accusing me of generalizing) who are also atheists love to mock christians, but are quick to defend muslims. It doesn't make any sense.  All of these bleeding hearts who marched weeks ago when they were duped into thinking Trump's stupid ban was strictly a muslim ban, does anyone think they would have done the same thing if a president was accused (wrongly or not) of trying to keep more christians out of the country?

I strongly disagree with everything but what could I possibly say,  you sure have liberals pegged.   :yeahright

There's some truth to that; there was NEVER any apology for lumping all "Christians" into the "Westboro Baptist Church" bucket of evangelical Christians, who didn't actually KILL anyone but just took an unpopular social position.   In the US, something like 85% of Americans - 275 million people - are technically Christians, whereas only about 15 million are "evangelicals".   Even assuming that ALL evangelicals "hate gays" and are "pro-life", it's still a small minority of all Christians.   No one cared about "Christianity" as a "religion of peace", but we bend over backwards to make the distinction about Islam. 

Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2017, 10:41:50 PM »
While I totally disagree with the mindset of being cool with attacking one group because another group is also being attacked, I completely agree with your general points about Christianity.

While there is no actual threat to Christianity in this country (at least not one that counts), I do believe that non-Christians go way too far in their Christian-bashing. Whether it's linking it to WBC, saying they're all anti-gay and want to outlaw abortion, or yadda yadda yadda, it's not helpful, it's factually incorrect and it only produces negativity.

Can't we all just go back to attacking Scientologists? I could have sworn their purpose was to unite everyone else against a common foe.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2017, 10:46:14 PM »

 there was NEVER any apology for lumping all "Christians" into the "Westboro Baptist Church" bucket of evangelical Christians,

What a nice strawman you've built here.  Who exactly is supposed to apologize, and to whom?   How conviently vague. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2017, 10:47:56 PM »
For the record, I'm Catholic - technically a "Christian" - and am pro-choice and fully supportive of equal rights for homosexuals.   Some polls have Catholic support for gay marriage and legal (albeit limited) abortion rights as high as 50% (which when compared to the national levels, isn't as bad as it sounds).

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2017, 11:01:40 PM »
https://youtu.be/0PUu6M8ThhM

At least Larry Wilmore seemed to know what was up.

Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2017, 11:06:56 PM »
I feel like he's trying to be the gay male Anne Coulter.

Which makes a lot more sense after seeing him with Bill.

My only exposure to this Milo dude is from the above posted video. I assume he's a character or something and this is meant to be a major societal troll?


Edit: Actually, if you got rid of the cartoon character, that was a really entertaining talk! I had no idea. Never watched Bill Maher before like that.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:15:45 PM by Adami »
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2017, 09:34:43 AM »
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/milo-yiannopoulos-talks-leslie-jones-lena-dunham-trump-real-time-all-i-care-is-free-speech-9772?utm_source=twitter

From the look of this it sounds like Milo and Bill had a nice friendly chat about how much they hate women in hollywood.  The whole thing is just a clusterfuck  :tdwn

Yeah, Bill and Milo have a lot more in common than you might think. No thanks to either of them.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #121 on: February 20, 2017, 04:44:07 PM »
Apparently, Simon & Schuster is cancelling the publication of Milo's book "Dangerous" and he was disinvited by the Conservative Polical Action Conference.   So I guess people finally drew a line at advocating sex with young boys, all the other hateful shit he said before that was just fine, let's invite him to speak.   :angry:

Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #122 on: February 20, 2017, 05:15:53 PM »
Guess that's an inherent risk of being a cartoon character. Such a thin line between humor and offense, especially when you're facading as a real person.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #123 on: February 20, 2017, 05:24:56 PM »
I've checked like 5 news sources, and I can't find any quotations from these videos of his. Are they documented somewhere one could reasonably expect to find them?

Adami has been most accurate about this guy as far as I can tell on this thread. The line between himself and his character has become too blurred. Of course, we are the ones to thank for that. He might survive this, he might not, depends on where he really wants to take this persona he has created.
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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #124 on: February 20, 2017, 08:53:45 PM »
The thing is Milo is more troll than actual political voice. The guy rose to prominence by coordinating an online harrassment effort of actress Leslie Jones. He's not being ostracized because his views are different, but he's also not being treated like a political commentator when he's not.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #125 on: February 20, 2017, 09:44:59 PM »
The thing is Milo is more troll than actual political voice. The guy rose to prominence by coordinating an online harrassment effort of actress Leslie Jones. He's not being ostracized because his views are different, but he's also not being treated like a political commentator when he's not.

After seeing him for the first time anywhere on Maher the other night, that was my impression, too. I have no doubt that he believes most of the disgusting things he says, but he obviously goes way over the top with the way he says things just to get a reaction out of people.  That is like the textbook definition of a troll.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #126 on: February 20, 2017, 09:58:13 PM »
It is also the best way nowadays to be heard.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #127 on: February 20, 2017, 09:59:58 PM »
It is also the best way nowadays to be heard.

I dunno dude. I can think of a whole lot of people who are heard without being cartoon characters. I don't think it's necessary, even if it is easier.

A wise man once said, work hard at achieving something, you'll appreciate it more.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:07:23 PM by Adami »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2017, 06:24:08 AM »
Apparently, Simon & Schuster is cancelling the publication of Milo's book "Dangerous" and he was disinvited by the Conservative Polical Action Conference.   So I guess people finally drew a line at advocating sex with young boys, all the other hateful shit he said before that was just fine, let's invite him to speak.   :angry:

Well, because that is clearly both illegal and - largely because of that illegality - considered immoral.   I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can at least see why the line is being drawn there and not somewhere else.   

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2017, 09:06:27 AM »
I watched the Milo/Maher interview over the weekend with my entire family.  It was actually pretty good.  I think both made some good points and neither were really in attack mode or anything.  Just good dialogue for the most part (besides Milo singling out people which just hurts his points when he does that).  Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2017, 09:14:48 AM »
Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that's what happened. Milo had a priest take advantage of him as a young teen, and he basically said there was nothing wrong with adults and minors getting involved with each other.

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2017, 09:23:14 AM »
Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that's what happened. Milo had a priest take advantage of him as a young teen, and he basically said there was nothing wrong with adults and minors getting involved with each other.

I thought I read a tweet with him admitting it?  I really haven't looked into it, just saw something my brother in law sent me which may or may not have been real I guess? 

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #132 on: February 21, 2017, 09:33:18 AM »
Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that's what happened. Milo had a priest take advantage of him as a young teen, and he basically said there was nothing wrong with adults and minors getting involved with each other.

I thought I read a tweet with him admitting it?  I really haven't looked into it, just saw something my brother in law sent me which may or may not have been real I guess? 
It's possible I just haven't seen it. I'm just going by the interview with Joe Rogan that resurfaced, which started all of this up.

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #133 on: February 21, 2017, 10:06:04 AM »
I read it wrong, I just re-read his facebook post which was what was sent to me.  I mean, the guy is a way over the top and not someone I particularly care for in terms of following his politics.  He seems more like an entertainer honestly.  The interview with Bill Maher was still pretty good overall though.

Offline Chino

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #134 on: February 21, 2017, 10:10:17 AM »
I read it wrong, I just re-read his facebook post which was what was sent to me.  I mean, the guy is a way over the top and not someone I particularly care for in terms of following his politics.  He seems more like an entertainer honestly.  The interview with Bill Maher was still pretty good overall though.

I thought he killed it on Maher's show. I don't know what to make of this guy. I've only been aware of him since the Berkley incident. I haven't looked into his past comments, but everything of his that I've read over the last month does not seem out of line at all, at least to me.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #135 on: February 21, 2017, 10:31:55 AM »
Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that's what happened. Milo had a priest take advantage of him as a young teen, and he basically said there was nothing wrong with adults and minors getting involved with each other.

Not exactly; what I understand he said - and for the record, I don't agree with this - was that SOME 13-year-olds are mature enough to make an informed consent decision on sexual matters.  Forget about "young boys" for a moment, this flies in the face of most of accepted science.  There's a REASON age of consent is 18, and it's not "politics".   This is not scandalous because "Alt-Right" or any of that.    I think if ANYONE said that - about boys or girls - it would be fishy.   We can't confuse their LOOKS with their mental maturity. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #136 on: February 21, 2017, 10:54:13 AM »
Then it came out that Milo sexually assaulted a young boy?  wtf.  Not that I thought he was necessarily a credible voice, but having never heard him before that interview, I thought he had good points (mostly about free speech)... sadly none of that means anything to me if the guy is a pedophile.
Maybe I missed something, but I don't think that's what happened. Milo had a priest take advantage of him as a young teen, and he basically said there was nothing wrong with adults and minors getting involved with each other.

Not exactly; what I understand he said - and for the record, I don't agree with this - was that SOME 13-year-olds are mature enough to make an informed consent decision on sexual matters.  Forget about "young boys" for a moment, this flies in the face of most of accepted science.  There's a REASON age of consent is 18, and it's not "politics".   This is not scandalous because "Alt-Right" or any of that.    I think if ANYONE said that - about boys or girls - it would be fishy.   We can't confuse their LOOKS with their mental maturity.

I would agree that some 13 year olds are mature enough for such a decision, so I don't have any qualms with that statement persae. That being said, the number of 13 year olds who are mature enough to make such a decision is probably so insignificantly small that it shouldn't even be considered when writing legislation. It's like when you have a 12 year old that for whatever is able to handle college level classes. I'm sure if they can understand advanced calculus and computer sciences, knowing the ins and outs of sexual matters is probably not at all over their heads.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #137 on: February 21, 2017, 11:05:50 AM »
Well, I agree in part (I'm sure there is ONE 13-year-old somewhere who does; if there is, it's statistically insignificant) but I don't necessarily agree that intellectual capacity is the same thing.  Intellectual capacity is fairly easily measured, it isn't correlatable with emotional capacity, and emotional capacity isn't entirely a learned thing.   We know the brain is still developing, and that perceptions of the world change significantly between the ages of say 12 and 22, 25 (depending on gender). 

This is why even for intellectually superior students, they don't recommend moving up too fast - a grade or two - because there isn't a corresponding emotional maturity. 

But that he may or may not be wrong, the fact that you and I are having this debate, this discussion, is why he shouldn't be silenced, as some are calling for. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #138 on: February 21, 2017, 11:10:41 AM »
But that he may or may not be wrong, the fact that you and I are having this debate, this discussion, is why he shouldn't be silenced, as some are calling for.

 :tup


This isn't directed at you, Stadler. I just don't feel like making another post.

This was Milo's statement two days ago posted on his FB account.
 
"I am a gay man, and a child abuse victim.
I would like to restate my utter disgust at adults who sexually abuse minors. I am horrified by pedophilia and I have devoted large portions of my career as a journalist to exposing child abusers. I've outed three of them, in fact -- three more than most of my critics. And I've repeatedly expressed disgust at pedophilia in my feature and opinion writing. My professional record is very clear.
But I do understand that these videos, even though some of them are edited deceptively, paint a different picture.
I'm partly to blame. My own experiences as a victim led me to believe I could say anything I wanted to on this subject, no matter how outrageous. But I understand that my usual blend of British sarcasm, provocation and gallows humor might have come across as flippancy, a lack of care for other victims or, worse, "advocacy." I deeply regret that. People deal with things from their past in different ways.
As to some of the specific claims being made, sometimes things tumble out of your mouth on these long, late-night live-streams, when everyone is spit-balling, that are incompletely expressed or not what you intended. Nonetheless, I've reviewed the tapes that appeared last night in their proper full context and I don't believe they say what is being reported.
I do not advocate for illegal behavior. I explicitly say on the tapes that I think the current age of consent is "about right."
I do not believe sex with 13-year-olds is okay. When I mentioned the number 13, I was talking about the age I lost my own virginity.
I shouldn't have used the word "boy" -- which gay men often do to describe young men of consenting age -- instead of "young man." That was an error.
I am certainly guilty of imprecise language, which I regret.
Anyone who suggests I turn a blind eye to illegal activity or to the abuse of minors is unequivocally wrong. I am implacably opposed to the normalization of pedophilia and I will continue to report and speak accordingly."

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #139 on: February 21, 2017, 11:25:58 AM »
I don't agree with a lot of what Milo says but this is a prime example of trying to silence an opposing view.